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Realism or Negativity..?


PFree

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Realism = the attitude or practice of accepting a situation as it is and being prepared to deal with it accordingly

Negativity = the expression of criticism of or pessimism about something

I've read lots of debate about how negative our fans are at the moment but because a fan is feeling a little low or down, that doesn't make them any less of a fan does it?

I can only speak for myself as I don't feel at all negative BUT I do feel our situation is in some respects poor and getting worse - that's me being honest and realistic but not negative.

  • Our home grown players are leaving because the transfer policy at City doesn't allow proven stars to be brought in who instantly improve the squad - whether affordable or not, they therefore have to leave if they want to reach the Premiership, we therefore are perceived to lack ambition?
  • I think I read last night we've won 4 out of the last 27 or so games?
  • We've sold our most popular players, and pre and current season, I'm yet to see anything in the new players that offers excitement?
  • Our play at the Gate for me has been boring for sometime, little desire and tempo and far too much playing in our own third whilst passing side-ways and backwards?
  • LJ speaks well but why after having learned from the previous season did last season take such a dramatic fall from grace once again?
  • Our transfer policy and squad additions have been terrible for some time but nobody ever seems accountable, why not?

I'm not being negative, I sincerely hope it all turns around and that once again I can look forward to attending the Gate - I just fear we have recently gone backwards and that it appears this will be a long and arduous season. On, and for the record, I've been a ST holder for decades, and after suffering for prolonged periods, I've always come back for more..

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PF thank you for a great post, hope (but doubt) it will  somehow stick to topic. 

I would add, from what I believe is my perspective of realism over negativity, the following:

1) Early season evidence indicates that we are not converting chances/possession into goals e.g. are not clinical finishers

2) Evidence last night and against Bolton shows that we have allowed our opponents to score from very few chances e.g. defending is not solid

3) Other threads have considered/discussed the current weaknesses of the squad, with the spine of keeper, CB, CM and striker being the focus e.g. the squad is  not strong enough

4) We have ‘an injury crisis’ at CB

With these things in mind I am astonished that LJ has said we are ‘done in the transfer market’ he is either not telling the truth or sees the situation very differently to me.

Like you I’m not being negative and hope things turn around. What I’m concerned by is the manager seemingly feeling he has an adequate and strong enough squad and ruling out any loanees.

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It isn't necessarily negative to point out problems, real or potential.

However realism involves acknowledging the restrictions under which the club operates:

  • We have at best a mid-table budget, with no parachute payments. Aston Villa's parachute payment last season was around the same as City's entire turnover.
  • This dictates the wages we are able to pay.
  • If a player wants to leave it's pretty hard to stop them.
  • There is more to signing players than identifying weak positions in the squad.
  • The Championship is a ridiculously tough and competitive league. Margins between winning and losing are paper-thin.

I think it's fine to point out problems. I don't think it's fair to assume, as some seem to, that those problems are caused by stupidity, penny-pinching or a lack of desire for success. What the people running the club are trying to do is very, very hard. There are 24 clubs in the Championship. Not one of them starts the season immune from relegation. Only three can be promoted. At least half a dozen of them are receiving parachute payments.

I'm not accusing you of ignoring the above, by the way, or at least not in this thread. My post is a general one that seemed to fit in here.

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3 minutes ago, Jerseybean said:

 

2) Evidence last night and against Bolton shows that we have allowed our opponents to score from very few chances e.g. defending is not solid

4) We have ‘an injury crisis’ at CB

 

To be honest, our defending since we got promoted to the Championship in 2015 has been terrible.

Although, it has got increasingly better.

2015/2016 - 71 conceded

2016/2017 - 66 conceded

2017/2018 - 58 conceded - interesting stat here. Everyone who finished above us conceded less and everyone who finished below us conceded more.

@BCFC_Dan is right regarding the margins in this division. In League 1, we could get away with mistakes / lack of organisation at the back whilst at the same time taking advantage at the other end of the pitch and scoring more goals which would not be possible against Championship defenders.

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31 minutes ago, PFree said:

Realism = the attitude or practice of accepting a situation as it is and being prepared to deal with it accordingly

Negativity = the expression of criticism of or pessimism about something

I've read lots of debate about how negative our fans are at the moment but because a fan is feeling a little low or down, that doesn't make them any less of a fan does it?

I can only speak for myself as I don't feel at all negative BUT I do feel our situation is in some respects poor and getting worse - that's me being honest and realistic but not negative.

  • Our home grown players are leaving because the transfer policy at City doesn't allow proven stars to be brought in who instantly improve the squad - whether affordable or not, they therefore have to leave if they want to reach the Premiership, we therefore are perceived to lack ambition?
  • I think I read last night we've won 4 out of the last 27 or so games?
  • We've sold our most popular players, and pre and current season, I'm yet to see anything in the new players that offers excitement?
  • Our play at the Gate for me has been boring for sometime, little desire and tempo and far too much playing in our own third whilst passing side-ways and backwards?
  • LJ speaks well but why after having learned from the previous season did last season take such a dramatic fall from grace once again?
  • Our transfer policy and squad additions have been terrible for some time but nobody ever seems accountable, why not?

I'm not being negative, I sincerely hope it all turns around and that once again I can look forward to attending the Gate - I just fear we have recently gone backwards and that it appears this will be a long and arduous season. On, and for the record, I've been a ST holder for decades, and after suffering for prolonged periods, I've always come back for more..

Send to; Bristol Sport, SL, MA, and all of the 3 managers we seem to have, Holden, Mac and LJ; the replies will be 99% gobble-de-gook and we are building for the future, no doubt :facepalm:

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3 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I guess to me, the problem is not just having a mid-table budget but being able to work effectively with the players we do have. By that I mean coaching/man-management and how to affect games successfully by the use of subs/tactics etc. 

And the prudent and best use of the mid-table budget would be a big help

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11 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I guess to me, the problem is not just having a mid-table budget but being able to work effectively with the players we do have. By that I mean coaching/man-management and how to affect games successfully by the use of subs/tactics etc. 

And there lies major problem 1.

 

8 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

And the prudent and best use of the mid-table budget would be a big help

And there lies major problem 2.

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38 minutes ago, PFree said:

Realism = the attitude or practice of accepting a situation as it is and being prepared to deal with it accordingly

Negativity = the expression of criticism of or pessimism about something

I've read lots of debate about how negative our fans are at the moment but because a fan is feeling a little low or down, that doesn't make them any less of a fan does it? 

I can only speak for myself as I don't feel at all negative BUT I do feel our situation is in some respects poor and getting worse - that's me being honest and realistic but not negative.

  • Our home grown players are leaving because the transfer policy at City doesn't allow proven stars to be brought in who instantly improve the squad - whether affordable or not, they therefore have to leave if they want to reach the Premiership, we therefore are perceived to lack ambition?
  • I think I read last night we've won 4 out of the last 27 or so games?
  • We've sold our most popular players, and pre and current season, I'm yet to see anything in the new players that offers excitement?
  • Our play at the Gate for me has been boring for sometime, little desire and tempo and far too much playing in our own third whilst passing side-ways and backwards?
  • LJ speaks well but why after having learned from the previous season did last season take such a dramatic fall from grace once again?
  • Our transfer policy and squad additions have been terrible for some time but nobody ever seems accountable, why not?

I'm not being negative, I sincerely hope it all turns around and that once again I can look forward to attending the Gate - I just fear we have recently gone backwards and that it appears this will be a long and arduous season. On, and for the record, I've been a ST holder for decades, and after suffering for prolonged periods, I've always come back for more.. 

I believe there is an element of disappointment there too. I for one was sad to see 3 of our best and most key players from last season leave. However, I was feeling quite positive when we received £17mill for both flint and Reid early on in the transfer window, and was excited about the prospect of Bristol reinvesting this to bring in a couple of 4/5/6 million pound signings which could have made us a real force in this division.

Fast forward 2 months ... the transfer window has shut and we have reinvested very little of this money in improving the squad and I feel we are now a weaker side than last season. I believe Hunt, Weimann and Webster will come good but they certainly don't seem to be great improvements on what we already had, and we don't seem to have invested in improving what was missing last season but just investing in like for like replacements.

Had we spent 5 or 6 million pounds on 2 big signings in positions that we have been lacking in from previous seasons i.e. spent the extra cash to bring in that USA GK and invested in a quality CM then I think we would all be feeling pretty positive.

I also think the fact that we are 3 games into a new season and already seeming to be in an injury crisis and naming 4 full backs through our defence doesn't fill anyone with confidence that we have sufficiently invested in this transfer market as we should have.

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9 minutes ago, City18 said:

 

Had we spent 5 or 6 million pounds on 2 big signings in positions that we have been lacking in from previous seasons i.e. spent the extra cash to bring in that USA GK and invested in a quality CM then I think we would all be feeling pretty positive.

 

Wasn't this the argument about Harry Maguire & Jesse Lingard a few seasons ago? Where we'd rather buy 2 "big" players rather than improve the squad overall with smaller purchases?

Or was that Chinese Whispers and fake news?

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Criticism is not negativity. Negativity comes out in the way the criticism is expressed.

Simply saying sack the manager, drop player x or, worse, childish name calling or abuse directed at managers, players or other forum members is negativity.

Personally I don't want an echo chamber and often like a post I disagree with if I think it's well expressed and doesn't indulge in any of the above. The rest I tend to ignore.

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47 minutes ago, Roe said:

It's either 3 in 20.  Or 4 in 28 (or 27 if you don't count last night's cup game).

Either way it's not good but ultimately last season is irrelevant now.

How is it irrelevant :blink:

 

The same as any period whether positive / negative or a mix

Surely they all build a picture and form part of an ongoing assessment 

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3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

How is it irrelevant :blink:

 

The same as any period whether positive / negative or a mix

Surely they all build a picture and form part of an ongoing assessment 

 

Well, he's right in a way. It's irrelevant, because we are fielding a substantially different side, with different players.

Whether these new players pull Johnson's fortunes out of the doldrums is a moot point: there's still not enough data to make any firm conclusions.

Last night, however, gave those deluded souls who chirped that we have "more strength in depth this season" a rather brutal dose of realism.

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Sold three of our arguably three best players in the summer and are currently without Deiedhiou. On top of that we have played Forrest who have just spent a lot and Bolton away which isn't easy. Wouldn't read too much into the cup loss think it may be a blessing in disguise if I am honest.

If we are in the relegation zone after 10-15 games I will panic. I think we just have to be patient. I think we have a good manager who hasn't been given anywhere near the budget and wages some teams in this league have. But we have a philosophy and some promising young players so I can see us getting to where we want to be just maybe not this season.

If we finish top half again I will be pleased with that.

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You can only comment how you see things personally.

For me, our record since January, coupled with a lack of 'big' signings and losing core players hasn't filled me with great hope for the impending season. Can see this being a campaign where we don't necessarily lose, but grind out draws week in and out.

That said, I hope the boys prove us wrong.

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I was optimistic about the start of the season but now I’m a bit more pessimistic. 

Saturday’s result is going to be massive in my opinion. A win will put a smile on my face and will lift the mood of the supporters. 

A defeat, which I’m expecting will have a very negative affect on support. 

Those winless runs ain’t no fun!!!

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2 hours ago, PFree said:

Realism = the attitude or practice of accepting a situation as it is and being prepared to deal with it accordingly

Negativity = the expression of criticism of or pessimism about something

I've read lots of debate about how negative our fans are at the moment but because a fan is feeling a little low or down, that doesn't make them any less of a fan does it?

I can only speak for myself as I don't feel at all negative BUT I do feel our situation is in some respects poor and getting worse - that's me being honest and realistic but not negative.

  • Our home grown players are leaving because the transfer policy at City doesn't allow proven stars to be brought in who instantly improve the squad - whether affordable or not, they therefore have to leave if they want to reach the Premiership, we therefore are perceived to lack ambition? But we have changed where we shop thus summer.  Webster, Hunt and Weimann would not have got through the filter last summer.  They aren’t Flint, Reid and Bryan here in Aug 2018, but certainly Hunt and Weimann I think are astute, excellent value signings.  Webster I haven’t seen so can only go by what others have posted.
  • I think I read last night we've won 4 out of the last 27 or so games?
  • We've sold our most popular players, and pre and current season, I'm yet to see anything in the new players that offers excitement?
  • Our play at the Gate for me has been boring for sometime, little desire and tempo and far too much playing in our own third whilst passing side-ways and backwards? Bit like Newton’s Law - perhaps it’s because away teams try to pay a bit more compact and therefore make it difficult.  Liverpool under Benitez we’re awfully boring at home, because everyone parked the bus.  The odd 0-0, the odd 0-1 (having dominated) were seen...it was tough to watch.
  • LJ speaks well but why after having learned from the previous season did last season take such a dramatic fall from grace once again?
  • Our transfer policy and squad additions have been terrible for some time but nobody ever seems accountable, why not? The policy is what it is.  Recruitment has been mixed (being generous) under the MA/LJ regime, up until this summer (too soon to evaluate).  I hope Hunt and Weimann do continue their early promise and show that for £1.5-£2.0m you can attract sunlight chsmpionship players.

I'm not being negative, I sincerely hope it all turns around and that once again I can look forward to attending the Gate - I just fear we have recently gone backwards and that it appears this will be a long and arduous season. On, and for the record, I've been a ST holder for decades, and after suffering for prolonged periods, I've always come back for more..

I like posts where the poster has explained his / her stance.  Don’t have to agree, but can appreciate why they might think the way  they do.  At least you can debate.  Couple if comments above.

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2 hours ago, BCFC_Dan said:

It isn't necessarily negative to point out problems, real or potential.

However realism involves acknowledging the restrictions under which the club operates:

  • We have at best a mid-table budget, with no parachute payments. Aston Villa's parachute payment last season was around the same as City's entire turnover.
  • This dictates the wages we are able to pay.
  • If a player wants to leave it's pretty hard to stop them.
  • There is more to signing players than identifying weak positions in the squad.
  • The Championship is a ridiculously tough and competitive league. Margins between winning and losing are paper-thin.

I think it's fine to point out problems. I don't think it's fair to assume, as some seem to, that those problems are caused by stupidity, penny-pinching or a lack of desire for success. What the people running the club are trying to do is very, very hard. There are 24 clubs in the Championship. Not one of them starts the season immune from relegation. Only three can be promoted. At least half a dozen of them are receiving parachute payments.

I'm not accusing you of ignoring the above, by the way, or at least not in this thread. My post is a general one that seemed to fit in here.

You argument doesn’t include clubs like Preston, Brentford and even Cardiff who were on a restricted budget last year.. we really do need to stop making excuses for how shit we are..

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45 minutes ago, swanker said:

I was optimistic about the start of the season but now I’m a bit more pessimistic. 

Saturday’s result is going to be massive in my opinion. A win will put a smile on my face and will lift the mood of the supporters. 

A defeat, which I’m expecting will have a very negative affect on support. 

Those winless runs ain’t no fun!!!

How many winless runs is it under Johnson now?

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1 minute ago, KeepUpLino said:

You argument doesn’t include clubs like Preston, Brentford and even Cardiff who were on a restricted budget last year.. we really do need to stop making excuses for how shit we are..

Cardiff had a significant budget....agree Re Brentford and PNE though.  Cardiff lack of budget is a myth.

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Cardiff had a significant budget....agree Re Brentford and PNE though.  Cardiff lack of budget is a myth.

I was just going on the signings they made last year, they were hardly world beaters just players who would run through brick walls for Warnock..

I would just love to know what happened to us last season, there’s been no explaination from Lee himself? At the the end of 16/17 season and first half of last season we seemed to have an abundance of energy flowing through our team, that seemed to disappear after Christmas and hasn’t been seen since? 

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