Boston Red Posted August 15, 2018 Report Share Posted August 15, 2018 Traditionally, Ashton Gate has always had a big pitch. This has been a great advantage to us. It means in general we have seen exciting attacking games. It has given wide men, over the years, a wonderful chance to flourish, and we have had many; Walsh, Smith, Gavin, Bent, Donowa, Barnard, Bell, Tinnion, Goodridge......etc. Whenever we are in the third tier going for promotion, teams try to come to Ashton Gate with 10 men behind the ball hoping for a point and a 0-0, but it rarely happens. We can get the ball wide, stretch the play, tire the opposition, and make chances. Along comes Lee Johnson, and he loves wide men. Sounds perfect for Bristol City, doesn't it? We have 7 wingers at the club at the moment. 1. Nicolas Elliason (left footed) 2. Callum O' Dowda (left footed) 3. Marley Watkins (right footed) 4. Hakeeb Adelukun (right footed) 5. Jamie Paterson (right footed, currently playing further forward, but has played most of his career as a wide man) 6. Andreas Weimann (right footed, currently playing further forward, but has played most of his career as a wide man) 7. Jonny Smith (right footed, out on loan at Tranmere) Plus, if you are in any doubt about LJ's love for wide men, he also signed, and then released, Jonathan Leko, Diego de Giralamo, and Ryan Kent. Joe Bryan was also, arguably, a winger moved to left back, and Jack Hunt and Jay DaSilva are defenders who love to bomb forward. Now here comes the surprising bit. At the start of the 2017/2018 season, Lee Johnson narrowed the pitch!!! Signing wide men and narrowing the pitch is like.......................... Buying a lawnmower and going to live in a flat. Buying a Porsche and cancelling your driving licence. Paying for gym membership when you have just broken your leg. Buying a package holiday abroad when you don't have a passport. We have Diedhiou who can attack the ball in the box, 6 wingers at the club, and it is much harder for them go down the outside to the byline to put a cross in!!! Narrowing the pitch helped our opponents last season. It was easy for Millwall and Burton to come and get a 0-0. If there is less space out wide it all has to go through the middle, where it is in front of the centre-backs. If the centre-backs stay goalside and head everything, they probably won't concede. Also, we lost to Brentford 1-0 at home and Norwich 1-0 at home when we could not break them down. Since most teams would take a point at Ashton Gate, it is in our interests to open the game up and have a big pitch, particularly if attacking is our strength and we have wingers. Our best performances were away from home, on bigger pitches, 3-1 at Ipswich, 2-0 at Fulham (getting to the byline twice) 2-1 at Sunderland (classic wide play from O'Dowda and Duric for the winner). Away from home on the smaller pitches it was the same (Burton 0-0 again). Now let's be fair to Lee Johnson. He has told us why he narrowed the pitch at the start of the 2017/18 season. He said he wanted to play high press, but the players were dubious. So he offered to narrow the pitch to give them less area to cover, and they agreed. You have to say that the high press was a roaring success. On Boxing Day 2017 after a 2-0 win over Reading (Paterson, Kelly) we were second in the Championship. 3 weeks later we finished third in a national competition having beaten four Premier League sides. The national media were genuinely impressed that our high-press positive game had yielded much better results against the invincible Man City (3-5 over 180 minutes) than the spineless Premier League method of packing the defence and getting stuffed 5-0. One Man City fan said we were the best English team they had played so far. Oh yes, and we beat Man Utd................... However I think it is time we went back to the traditional large Ashton Gate pitch. We could not break down Plymouth last night. A large pitch tires out the opposition. I am not saying we are Man Utd, but Old Trafford is another big pitch, and under Alex Ferguson with wide men (Giggs, Beckham, Kanchelskis, Ronaldo) it was impossible for teams to defend for a 0-0. They too, have a tradition of wide men going back years (Best, Law), and Mourinho is not playing any wide men at the moment, going against the traditions of the club, and the football is turgid. We need to stretch the play and break teams down using space out wide. We need to use our wingers. We need to stop teams stopping us just with two banks of four and concentration in defense. But on a wider note, is it part of the tradition of Bristol City Football Club to have a big pitch. It makes for better football and a more entertaining game to watch. It brings out the best in our talented forwards. So come on Lee Johnson. Can we have our big pitch back please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted August 15, 2018 Report Share Posted August 15, 2018 14 minutes ago, Boston Red said: Traditionally, Ashton Gate has always had a big pitch. This has been a great advantage to us. It means in general we have seen exciting attacking games. It has given wide men, over the years, a wonderful chance to flourish, and we have had many; Walsh, Smith, Gavin, Bent, Donowa, Barnard, Bell, Tinnion, Goodridge......etc. Whenever we are in the third tier going for promotion, teams try to come to Ashton Gate with 10 men behind the ball hoping for a point and a 0-0, but it rarely happens. We can get the ball wide, stretch the play, tire the opposition, and make chances. Along comes Lee Johnson, and he loves wide men. Sounds perfect for Bristol City, doesn't it? We have 7 wingers at the club at the moment. 1. Nicolas Elliason (left footed) 2. Callum O' Dowda (left footed) 3. Marley Watkins (right footed) 4. Hakeeb Adelukun (right footed) 5. Jamie Paterson (right footed, currently playing further forward, but has played most of his career as a wide man) 6. Andreas Weimann (right footed, currently playing further forward, but has played most of his career as a wide man) 7. Jonny Smith (right footed, out on loan at Tranmere) Plus, if you are in any doubt about LJ's love for wide men, he also signed, and then released, Jonathan Leko, Diego de Giralamo, and Ryan Kent. Joe Bryan was also, arguably, a winger moved to left back, and Jack Hunt and Jay DaSilva are defenders who love to bomb forward. Now here comes the surprising bit. At the start of the 2017/2018 season, Lee Johnson narrowed the pitch!!! Signing wide men and narrowing the pitch is like.......................... Buying a lawnmower and going to live in a flat. Buying a Porsche and cancelling your driving licence. Paying for gym membership when you have just broken your leg. Buying a package holiday abroad when you don't have a passport. We have Diedhiou who can attack the ball in the box, 6 wingers at the club, and it is much harder for them go down the outside to the byline to put a cross in!!! Narrowing the pitch helped our opponents last season. It was easy for Millwall and Burton to come and get a 0-0. If there is less space out wide it all has to go through the middle, where it is in front of the centre-backs. If the centre-backs stay goalside and head everything, they probably won't concede. Also, we lost to Brentford 1-0 at home and Norwich 1-0 at home when we could not break them down. Since most teams would take a point at Ashton Gate, it is in our interests to open the game up and have a big pitch, particularly if attacking is our strength and we have wingers. Our best performances were away from home, on bigger pitches, 3-1 at Ipswich, 2-0 at Fulham (getting to the byline twice) 2-1 at Sunderland (classic wide play from O'Dowda and Duric for the winner). Away from home on the smaller pitches it was the same (Burton 0-0 again). Now let's be fair to Lee Johnson. He has told us why he narrowed the pitch at the start of the 2017/18 season. He said he wanted to play high press, but the players were dubious. So he offered to narrow the pitch to give them less area to cover, and they agreed. You have to say that the high press was a roaring success. On Boxing Day 2017 after a 2-0 win over Reading (Paterson, Kelly) we were second in the Championship. 3 weeks later we finished third in a national competition having beaten four Premier League sides. The national media were genuinely impressed that our high-press positive game had yielded much better results against the invincible Man City (3-5 over 180 minutes) than the spineless Premier League method of packing the defence and getting stuffed 5-0. One Man City fan said we were the best English team they had played so far. Oh yes, and we beat Man Utd................... However I think it is time we went back to the traditional large Ashton Gate pitch. We could not break down Plymouth last night. A large pitch tires out the opposition. I am not saying we are Man Utd, but Old Trafford is another big pitch, and under Alex Ferguson with wide men (Giggs, Beckham, Kanchelskis, Ronaldo) it was impossible for teams to defend for a 0-0. They too, have a tradition of wide men going back years (Best, Law), and Mourinho is not playing any wide men at the moment, going against the traditions of the club, and the football is turgid. We need to stretch the play and break teams down using space out wide. We need to use our wingers. We need to stop teams stopping us just with two banks of four and concentration in defense. But on a wider note, is it part of the tradition of Bristol City Football Club to have a big pitch. It makes for better football and a more entertaining game to watch. It brings out the best in our talented forwards. So come on Lee Johnson. Can we have our big pitch back please? I raised a question about widening the pitch but someone replied that once we have given the EFL the pitch dimensions at the start of the season we cannot then change them to suite us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuber Posted August 15, 2018 Report Share Posted August 15, 2018 9 minutes ago, downendcity said: I raised a question about widening the pitch but someone replied that once we have given the EFL the pitch dimensions at the start of the season we cannot then change them to suite us. I believe this is correct, pitch dimensions are ratified at the start of the season by the FL per submission from the club aren't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted August 15, 2018 Report Share Posted August 15, 2018 Frankie wouldn't put half the balls out of play ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View from the Dolman Posted August 15, 2018 Report Share Posted August 15, 2018 26 minutes ago, downendcity said: I raised a question about widening the pitch but someone replied that once we have given the EFL the pitch dimensions at the start of the season we cannot then change them to suite us. Spot on. "13.2 Clubs must register their pitch dimensions with The League prior to the start of each Season. It will be misconduct on the part of a Club to alter its pitch dimensions during a Season without the prior written consent of The League, which consent will only be given in exceptional circumstances. The League may at any time require a Club to submit a report from a qualified independent source certifying the pitch dimensions." https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/section-4---clubs/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted August 15, 2018 Report Share Posted August 15, 2018 24 minutes ago, downendcity said: I raised a question about widening the pitch but someone replied that once we have given the EFL the pitch dimensions at the start of the season we cannot then change them to suite us. Yes but surely the point being made is with the players available this season a different decision should have been taken than last season. It would be nice to be reassured that a decision was actually taken to maintain the smaller pitch and that it simply wasn't allowed to happen without debate. If decision was taken to keep this smaller sized pitch it would also be good to know the reasoning for this season as the reason given for it last is clearly now outdated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted August 15, 2018 Report Share Posted August 15, 2018 It is also possible that the smaller pitch has helped our defenders, defend against better opposition. The thinking being that, more teams have better players than us, so we need to reduce their use of the wider pitch. Personally, I prefer a wider pitch but, last season in particular, we played with four central defenders who weren't the most mobile, for the best part of the season. I think it allowed for us to be in the opposition half for longer periods, due to the shorter distances our forward players needed to close the opposition down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miser Posted August 15, 2018 Report Share Posted August 15, 2018 Only got narrowed by a smidgen. Not sure it has made much difference. Unless we knock down the Dolman and go back to the 1968 dimensions. Bring back Alan Skirton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted August 15, 2018 Report Share Posted August 15, 2018 2 hours ago, Ivorguy said: Yes but surely the point being made is with the players available this season a different decision should have been taken than last season. It would be nice to be reassured that a decision was actually taken to maintain the smaller pitch and that it simply wasn't allowed to happen without debate. If decision was taken to keep this smaller sized pitch it would also be good to know the reasoning for this season as the reason given for it last is clearly now outdated. Didn't LJ want the pitch narrowed last season to suite our pressing game - gives the defence less room to pass out and around pressing strikers. I'm guessing we want to play a similar style this season. It doesn't preclude using wide players and as another poster points out the width difference is marginal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 16, 2018 Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 5 hours ago, miser said: Only got narrowed by a smidgen. Not sure it has made much difference. Unless we knock down the Dolman and go back to the 1968 dimensions. Bring back Alan Skirton. Narrowed by a yard on either side was what LJ told us. There’s still plenty of room out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveF Posted August 16, 2018 Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 47 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Narrowed by a yard on either side was what LJ told us. There’s still plenty of room out there. Perhaps that 6ft is making all the difference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 16, 2018 Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 8 minutes ago, DaveF said: Perhaps that 6ft is making all the difference! It shouldn’t do, nor should it make such a drastic impact on pressing either. Bit of “trying to be too clever” imho 9 minutes ago, DaveF said: Perhaps that 6ft is making all the difference! To Frank?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted August 16, 2018 Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 I'm not sure we're in a position that teams come and stick 10 behind the ball hoping to get a draw in this league. If we were on paper a top 2 or 3 side I could see us doing this but because we don't seem to be able to defend consistently yet in this league then I would say the decision to keep it narrower is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinkadink Posted August 16, 2018 Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 Don't forget the rugby either; Pat Lam the head coach wanted a wider pitch and told LJ this but the latter couldn't be swayed as he believed it would help his press. Was reported in media around this time last year I guess if anyone wants to check the exact comment Lam made, too early for me right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Dicks Posted August 16, 2018 Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 You could clearly see v Forest that the pitch size was hindering our football, bad mistake by Johnson this. I'm not sure what the rules say but something is telling me you can't change the pitch size during a season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted August 16, 2018 Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 a narrower pitch suits the way we try and play better, wide pitch and we are too spaced out and we aren't good enough to cope with that, other teams exploit that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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