Jens Hegeler

[nebristolred]

6 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Yep let's move on, he's been a passenger, you should be attacking the person who selected him to play out of position not the people who are saying, let's move on.

You make a fair point but I think it's fair to 'attack' (for want of a better term) both the manager who's selecting him wrongly and those who are writing him off without any real justification or proof. Don't you? On paper he's clearly a pretty useful player, he's just clearly not been utilised effectively, or he must be absolutely dreadful in training. Given his Bundesliga and CL experience, I'd suggest it's the former.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

You said "Falls into the "i'm sure that there is a good footballer in there somewhere", but 2 years on we have yet to see it". I merely corrected that by referring to that performance. We have seen it, albeit only once.

I know that it is something that LJ struggles with but consistency isn't too much to ask for?

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, nebristolred said:

You make a fair point but I think it's fair to 'attack' (for want of a better term) both the manager who's selecting him wrongly and those who are writing him off without any real justification or proof. Don't you? On paper he's clearly a pretty useful player, he's just clearly not been utilised effectively, or he must be absolutely dreadful in training. Given his Bundesliga and CL experience, I'd suggest it's the former.

A glaring weakness of Hegeler- and dare I say it more players Johnson has signed- is a lack of compatibility to the formation he often chooses to set up in.

[The Original OTIB]

1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

I know that it is something that LJ struggles with but consistency isn't too much to ask for?

If you look at his German League stats, his pass completion % is significantly higher. A wild stab in the dark would say that there's less time on the ball in the harum-scarum Championship.  A Sweeper role would suit him, but that has, of course, gone out of fashion. Spain would be good for him but I suspect he'll just go back to Germany.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 minutes ago, nebristolred said:

You make a fair point but I think it's fair to 'attack' (for want of a better term) both the manager who's selecting him wrongly and those who are writing him off without any real justification or proof. Don't you? On paper he's clearly a pretty useful player, he's just clearly not been utilised effectively, or he must be absolutely dreadful in training. Given his Bundesliga and CL experience, I'd suggest it's the former.

I think that it's time to move on, of course I may be wrong, I have seen nothing to convince me that he can improve us in the long term.

In fact my recollection is that LJ played him a few times on signing him and then benched him for most of the rest of the season.

[Londoner]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

A glaring weakness of Hegeler- and dare I say it more players Johnson has signed- is a lack of compatibility to the formation he often chooses to set up in.

Nail on head.

[The Original OTIB]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

A glaring weakness of Hegeler- and dare I say it more players Johnson has signed- is a lack of compatibility to the formation he often chooses to set up in.

Played great first half, Derby away, 11th Feb 2017. Right Midfield - yes, only once, but he can do it. It was a bog standard 4-4-2 that day.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 minute ago, The Original OTIB said:

If you look at his German League stats, his pass completion % is significantly higher. A wild stab in the dark would say that there's less time on the ball in the harum-scarum Championship.  A Sweeper role would suit him, but that has, of course, gone out of fashion. Spain would be good for him but I suspect he'll just go back to Germany.

Again your defence seems to be an attack on LJ, firstly for signing him bearing in mind the environment change of the harum-scarum championship, secondly then playing out of position and thirdly for not seeing what you are seeing reference his best position.

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

Played great first half, Derby away, 11th Feb 2017. Right Midfield - yes, only once, but he can do it. It was a bog standard 4-4-2 that day.

On the right?

Interesting- the midfield that day (starting lineup wise) was Cotterill, Brownhill, Hegeler and Bryan. Who played centrally then? Must have been an interesting shape. A narrow 4 perhaps?

Oddly, I think had he a) Remained consistently fit and b) Been in what I see as his correct position- he could have slotted in for say Johansen at Fulham. Edit: Maybe not- didn't realise Johansen was so prolific! Could have slotted into their 3 as cover though, IMO.

[The Original OTIB]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

On the right?

Interesting- the midfield that day (starting lineup wise) was Cotterill, Brownhill, Hegeler and Bryan. Who played centrally then? Must have been an interesting shape.

Right Centre, Browhhill left Centre. Cotterill wide Right, Bryan Left Mid. Clue re: Bryan: HE'S A MIDFIELDER NOT A BL**DY DEFENDER !

[Esmond Million's Bung]

3 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

Played great first half, Derby away, 11th Feb 2017. Right Midfield - yes, only once, but he can do it. It was a bog standard 4-4-2 that day.

That is not a good enough return, to wait in the hope that next time he will give us another 45 minutes, how much longer do we wait?

[The Original OTIB]

1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

That is not a good enough return, to wait in the hope that next time he will give us another 45 minutes, how much longer do we wait?

Did I say it was? Just introducing evidence against one sweeping generalisation.

[Londoner]

Hegeler excellent in a middle 3. 

[Red Army 75]

1 hour ago, Loon plage said:

So.. genuine question for all those who know the game better than me. Notwithstanding injuries, why do you think he was signed ?

Because he was a Rolls Royce of a footballer apparently 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

11 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

Did I say it was? Just introducing evidence against one sweeping generalisation.

It's not a sweeping generalisation, it's borne out of the evidence so far available during his time at BCFC and the fact that LJ benched him after just a couple of games.

[Coxy27]

Does anyone actually know what is wrong with him, and when he's likely to be available for selection?

Has anything been communicated about him? Seems odd.

[Gazred]

1 hour ago, City18 said:

I've been impressed with Pack recently and he seems to be by far our most creative player right now, made some quality through balls in the Bolton game.

I'd love to see pack pushed further forward to do more damage with a fit Jens Hegeler dropping deeper.

            Maenpaa

Hunt Wright Webster Kelly

            Hegeler

     Brownhill  Pack

Eliasson             O'Dowda

           Weimann

That's the formation i thought we would be playing this season. We are well equiped for it.

That's probably the only position Hegeler could play for us but he is ideal for it.

[The Original OTIB]

7 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

It's not a sweeping generalisation, it's borne out of the evidence so far available during his time at BCFC and the fact that LJ benched him after just a couple of games.

this bit is:

"i'm sure that there is a good footballer in there somewhere", but 2 years on we have yet to see it.

We have seen it, albeit once, as stated. Read back and you'll see that I'm broadly in agreement, save for the fact that he is clearly a good player but probably not best suited to The Championship. Caveat: I think he could play as a sweeper if that ever came back into fashion.

[The Original OTIB]

2 minutes ago, Gazred said:

That's the formation i thought we would be playing this season. We are well equiped for it.

That's probably the only position Hegeler could play for us but he is ideal for it.

Hegeler as Sweeper might work (behind the back 4), and could drop in when Webster goes forward. Doubt we'll ever see it though.

[Gazred]

1 minute ago, The Original OTIB said:

Hegeler as Sweeper might work (behind the back 4), and could drop in when Webster goes forward. Doubt we'll ever see it though.

Possibly, but with his lack of pace i'm not sure i would want him as the last man!

I don't think we'll see him again anyway.

[The Original OTIB]

1 minute ago, Gazred said:

Possibly, but with his lack of pace i'm not sure i would want him as the last man!

I don't think we'll see him again anyway.

Pace is not required to be a sweeper, football intelligence is required. This is not a box to box role.

[nebristolred]

7 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

Hegeler as Sweeper might work (behind the back 4), and could drop in when Webster goes forward. Doubt we'll ever see it though.

Thing is, who plays a sweeper these days?

1 hour ago, City18 said:

I've been impressed with Pack recently and he seems to be by far our most creative player right now, made some quality through balls in the Bolton game.

I'd love to see pack pushed further forward to do more damage with a fit Jens Hegeler dropping deeper.

            Maenpaa

Hunt Wright Webster Kelly

            Hegeler

     Brownhill  Pack

Eliasson             O'Dowda

           Weimann

This is exactly how I'd like to see us line up. Smith could be great in the midfield there also, and Eliasson could be devastating as a proper inside forward rather than a winger. 

[xerox6060]

1 hour ago, City18 said:

I've been impressed with Pack recently and he seems to be by far our most creative player right now, made some quality through balls in the Bolton game.

I'd love to see pack pushed further forward to do more damage with a fit Jens Hegeler dropping deeper.

            Maenpaa

Hunt Wright Webster Kelly

            Hegeler

     Brownhill  Pack

Eliasson             O'Dowda

           Weimann

I can see and like this but I'm not sure LJ would adapt to this formation, he has presumably spent all summer working on his version of 4-4-2, and to me may well perserver with that no matter what. 

[The Original OTIB]

2 minutes ago, nebristolred said:

Thing is, who plays a sweeper these days?

This is exactly how I'd like to see us line up. Smith could be great in the midfield there also, and Eliasson could be devastating as a proper inside forward rather than a winger. 

see my comment above: " A Sweeper role would suit him, but that has, of course, gone out of fashion. ". Ergo, nobody plays it. I was just saying that it would suit him.

[nebristolred]

10 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

see my comment above: " A Sweeper role would suit him, but that has, of course, gone out of fashion. ". Ergo, nobody plays it. I was just saying that it would suit him.

Fair enough, hadn't seen that 

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, Loon plage said:

So.. genuine question for all those who know the game better than me. Notwithstanding injuries, why do you think he was signed ?

Nice hair ? 

 

[bengalcub]

Wasn't hegeler signed as a midfielder who could fill in at cb if really needed , now he seems to a cb if all other cb options are injured ! 

[simon uk]

The crux of this is whether hegeler would consistently be good enough to set the team up with 3 in midfield to accommodate him.... and weve seen nothing to suggest that he is worth altering the way we play for. He might have been a cheap transfer fee but those wages will be hefty, and the impact hes made has been abysmal. With the under acheiving djuric gone, and matty taylor the other survivor of that particular transfer window, Who is terrible too, im not surprised sl is keeping that 15 million back this summer?

[Natchfever]

1 hour ago, nebristolred said:

Experienced, defensive midfielder which we don't really have. Played over 40 games in the Bundesliga for Bayer Leverkusen, including playing both Europa League and Champions League football. Signed directly from the Bundesliga for Hertha Berlin. Exactly the sort of senior signing we should be making considering he was only 29 at the time too.

But obviously a few of our armchair scouts know better!

So.. as I said previously, injuries notwithstanding, why haven't the non armchair coaches used him more ?

Why sign someone with his credentials and then not know how to utilise him or discover that he isn't actually up to the rigours of the Championship (which I would find surprising bearing in mind the Bundesliga experience) ? 

[nebristolred]

1 hour ago, Loon plage said:

So.. as I said previously, injuries notwithstanding, why haven't the non armchair coaches used him more ?

Why sign someone with his credentials and then not know how to utilise him or discover that he isn't actually up to the rigours of the Championship (which I would find surprising bearing in mind the Bundesliga experience) ? 

Well that's exactly it - either they're missing a trick or he's dog**** in training. Or something else has crept in alongside the injuries, I have no idea.