Lee Johnson - Time To Go

[Sturny]

1 minute ago, Londoner said:

I've got at least a 100+ on several occasions

Can't say i'm not impressed. You know how to start a controversial thread. Just out of curiosity, knowing the topic is quite heated did you post this just to say your piece or hoping the forum would change your mind? Or am I overlooking this very successful trolling? 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 minute ago, BRISTOL86 said:

You can’t just look at Blro’s spending this summer. They’re big hitters, with a considerably better squad than us (or Millwall) and lay much bigger wages. They ‘should’ have dispatched Millwall as easily as we ‘should’ have dispatched Bolton, but football isn’t played on a calculator, and in 11 v 11 competitive football, it doesn’t always go the way you expect.

Whether you like it or not, Bolton deserve credit for standing up to us for so long given our domination. Did we perform to our best until 0-2? No, absolutely not, but we weren’t apalling either and looked comfortable if largely unthreatening. 

Re sacking Johnson, I think he will if performance isn’t in line with expectations. Whether his actual expectations are the same as what he publicised remain to be seen. 

We had a pretty high allure churn in the summer and are without arguably our best player. But we’re still undefeated. The fact that these facts are being turned into such over the top hyperbole is pretty ridiculous whichever side of the fence you lean.

You say standing up to us? I say there was little or nothing to stand up to, we made it easy for them, we looked pretty but as usual ran totally out of ideas in and around the opponents box, it was like by the time we got to the opponents box, we forgot what we were there for.

I would say if we continue to play like that then we are in for a big struggle.

In a way your argument re 11 v 11 is self defeating, our form over 28 games in 2018 is proof of that.

[Sturny]

24 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Maybe not the thread for it but in researching net transfer market dealings I see we are in 5th profit table amongst all English Clubs this season to date

 

 

 

SL will see this and cream

 

 

[Kid in the Riot]

11 minutes ago, Sturny said:

70 rubbishes?! New record?

Hang on, haven't added mine yet!

There, that's better!

[Bar BS3]

7 minutes ago, Londoner said:

I've got at least a 100+ on several occasions

Have you noticed that most other people can’t claim that...?! 

[BRISTOL86]

1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

You say standing up to us? I say there was little or nothing to stand up to, we made it easy for them, we looked pretty but as usual ran totally out of ideas in and around the opponents box, it was like by the time we got to the opponents box, we forgot what we were there for.

I would say if we continue to play like that then we are in for a big struggle.

In a way your argument re 11 v 11 is self defeating, our form over 28 games in 2018 is proof of that.

I don’t disagree with our lack of creativity. I was a firm advocate of a midfield recruitment drive....

But I maintain a belief that if we continue to dominate possession and spend considerably longer in the opponents half than they do in ours, we will win more than we lose. Especially when our best striker is back. 

Saying that, 3 goals in 2 games suggests we will be fine for goals. It’s keeping them out at the other end that has and will continue to be the problem. We should never have been 1 let alone 2 down at Bolton. The reason we didn’t win that game wasn’t lack of taking chances, despite the fact that we could have done more. 

[Londoner]

6 minutes ago, Sturny said:

Can't say i'm not impressed. You know how to start a controversial thread. Just out of curiosity, knowing the topic is quite heated did you post this just to say your piece or hoping the forum would change your mind? Or am I overlooking this very successful trolling? 

I posted it to say my piece. I don't think LJ will ever be accepted unless he completely transforms things on the pitch which is something I don't feel he has the ability to do....not with consistency anyway.

I don't troll just give my complete honest opinion.

[Mr Popodopolous]

38 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Maybe not the thread for it but in researching net transfer market dealings I see we are in 5th profit table amongst all English Clubs this season to date

 

 

Fair to say we're near the top of one League...

[BRISTOL86]

1 minute ago, Londoner said:

I posted it to say my piece. I don't think LJ will ever be accepted unless he completely transforms things on the pitch which is something I don't feel he has the ability to do....not with consistency anyway.

I don't troll just give my complete honest opinion.

Does the reaction to your initial post not make you question whether you might be wrong though? Crazy thought I know but bear with it.

You’d think a self proclaimed being of higher intellect would deduce from an overwhelmingly negative reaction to an opinion, that it might not be a particularly good one?

[Sturny]

1 minute ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Does the reaction to your initial post not make you question whether you might be wrong though? Crazy thought I know but bear with it.

You’d think a self proclaimed being of higher intellect would deduce from an overwhelmingly negative reaction to an opinion, that it might not be a particularly good one?

This forum doesn't exactly have an overall unbiased opinion on things. 

[Londoner]

3 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Does the reaction to your initial post not make you question whether you might be wrong though? Crazy thought I know but bear with it.

You’d think a self proclaimed being of higher intellect would deduce from an overwhelmingly negative reaction to an opinion, that it might not be a particularly good one?

Of course I'm not wrong. 

LJ has stabilised us as a championship side, he has achieved this year and deserved credit....his poor runs of results and inability to fit players into their best roles is a barrier to the next stage of progress and therefore he needs to go.

He won't Go anytime soon but he will eventually and he has given us a foundation for someone else to build on.

 

[BRISTOL86]

4 minutes ago, Londoner said:

Of course I'm not wrong. 

LJ has stabilised us as a championship side, he has achieved this year and deserved credit....his poor runs of results and inability to fit players into their best roles is a barrier to the next stage of progress and therefore he needs to go.

He won't Go anytime soon but he will eventually and he has given us a foundation for someone else to build on.

 

I don’t necessarily disagree with you that he will ultimately reach a ceiling here where he can deliver no further improvement (without additional investment) but there is zero evidence to support the theory that Dean Smith has any better skill set to do so, putting aside the shoestring budget myth which has already been disproved.

Smith for Johnson is a pointless change, it’s pretty much like for like  

If we want to take anything from Brentford to propel us to a higher level it’s their scouting setup. 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

12 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

...most cohesive too.

@Esmond Million's Bung Bolton away not as easy as it seems on paper. They beat Cardiff, Villa and of course us at their place last season- drew with Fulham too. They are far from a good side, but they are awkward, difficult, physical- fouls to cut out the flow of the game and they sit fairly deep before breaking out even at home. In short, everything you'd expect from a cash strapped Bolton away. That isn't easy. The risk also that if we'd gone for it sooner we may have got hit on the break at some point and lost.

Millwall are a good side...in that they play to their strengths. Not a possession based side tbh, but nonetheless will pose a challenge to anyone at their ground this season. Won't get 8th again I don't think, but should be tough.

So what about the 24 games out of the previous 28? that we failed to win this year? maybe just maybe it's because we ain't good enough? or maybe we are missing that one ingredient that I and several others having been calling for to further our pretty possession based game, creativity in midfield that can unlock defences and provide good clear goal scoring chances, don't forget during this run of games we went was it 2 and a half games without registering a shot on target, many of the games we created little or nothing in the way of clear cut chances.

And before asking who I would like to see please don't bother, that is not my highly paid job and most importantly for some reason LJ does not see it the same way anyway, I said all throughout the summer that he wouldn't sign a midfielder, so I wasn't surprised when he didn't and I am also not surprised that we are still not creating enough clear cut chances.

[Londoner]

He has also given the green light to duff signings. We all know if he does not want a player the club won't sign them.

The signings of Djuric Matthews Hegeler Taylor Engvall Giefer Kent Diony etc have been incredibly poor business and he is partly to blame for that 

[Sturny]

Just a thought, do people think LJ's best days are behind or ahead of us?

[Londoner]

4 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I don’t necessarily disagree with you that he will ultimately reach a ceiling here where he can deliver no further improvement (without additional investment) but there is zero evidence to support the theory that Dean Smith has any better skill set to do so, putting aside the shoestring budget myth which has already been disproved.

If we want to take anything from Brentford to propel us to a higher level it’s their scouting setup. 

And a manager who knows how to get the best from his players....sometjong LJ is weak at.

[BRISTOL86]

4 minutes ago, Londoner said:

And a manager who knows how to get the best from his players....sometjong LJ is weak at.

Wrong. We’ve seen on multiple occasions that he absolutely can. You don’t beat that Manchester United side by accident, and you aren’t pushing for automatic promotion at Christmas by accident.

What he hasn’t done is deliver that ability consistently throughout a season, which needs to be improved. I think this is his last season to do so. If we’re roughly mid table all season then I believe he’ll keep his job - rightly or wrongly. If we’re have a repeat of last season he won’t make it to May IMO. 

[Londoner]

4 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Wrong. We’ve seen on multiple occasions that he absolutely can. You don’t beat that Manchester United side by accident, and you aren’t pushing for automatic promotion at Christmas by accident.

What he hasn’t done is deliver that ability consistently throughout a season, which needs to be improved. I think this is his last season to do so. If we’re roughly mid table all season then I believe he’ll keep his job - rightly or wrongly. If we’re have a repeat of last season he won’t make it to May IMO. 

MK Dons did.

[BobBobSuperBob]

38 minutes ago, phantom said:

But surely the sales this summer are basically a one off, and mislead the figures somewhat ?

I didn’t comment on them

But yes of course , turns a £16 million deficit into a £6million profit in one window

[BRISTOL86]

2 minutes ago, Londoner said:

MK Dons did.

They most certainly didn’t. They were absolutely excellent that nights and fully deserved their win. Their manager got 100% out of every man on the pitch, as we did. 

The Man Utd side they played was also considerably weaker than the one we played (as you’d expect for a second round tie vs a quarter final) 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

3 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Wrong. We’ve seen on multiple occasions that he absolutely can. You don’t beat that Manchester United side by accident, and you aren’t pushing for automatic promotion at Christmas by accident.

What he hasn’t done is deliver that ability consistently throughout a season, which needs to be improved. I think this is his last season to do so. If we’re roughly mid table all season then I believe he’ll keep his job - rightly or wrongly. If we’re have a repeat of last season he won’t make it to May IMO. 

Hold on surely "Oh wait....it’s 11 v 11 who all want to win a game. You don’t always get what you deserve out of games. 9/10 times if we replay that fixture I’d put money on THEM getting a result. It wasn’t THEIR day". 

And 28 games with only 4 wins didn't happen by accident either.

At least be honest here.

I don't agree with Londoner but I do believe that his recent record is incredibly poor and unless it improves needs to be scrutinised as to why.

[Coxy27]

21 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Does the reaction to your initial post not make you question whether you might be wrong though? Crazy thought I know but bear with it.

You’d think a self proclaimed being of higher intellect would deduce from an overwhelmingly negative reaction to an opinion, that it might not be a particularly good one?

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

[Monkeh]

58 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

31 May, SR: "Although #Brentford FC suffer from very low revenue and wages in the Championship, they have consistently punched above their weight....." 

In 2016/17, on transfer fees they spent £7m, we spent £14m. On wages, they spent £15m,  we spent £21m. Commercial revenue: them, £2m; us, £9m. According to SR. 

They have sold their best players every season in the Championship - what people here are now calling "churn" - and coped with "churn" in the manager/head coach position, and finished top ten every time. We have yet to finish top ten following promotion. All this on 10k crowds, half what we now attract.

All this indicates to me that on a bit less than us, Brentford are squeezing out a bit more than us, four years on the spin. They are showing that despite being amongst "bigger budget teams" we could do more and better with what we have (this might be what SL is thinking about, when he says he wants us to finish higher this season).

Being in London no doubt is an advantage over us, but being owned by Matthew Bentham might be something to do with it too. 

 

We’ve never spent 21 million on wages in the history of the club

[BRISTOL86]

3 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Hold on surely "Oh wait....it’s 11 v 11 who all want to win a game. You don’t always get what you deserve out of games. 9/10 times if we replay that fixture I’d put money on THEM getting a result. It wasn’t THEIR day". 

And 28 games with only 4 wins didn't happen by accident either.

At least be honest here.

I don't agree with Londoner but I do believe that his recent record is incredibly poor and unless it improves needs to be scrutinised as to why.

Not sure I understand the point?

When did I say anything about the run at the end of last season? It was absolutely horrendous and you won’t find me saying otherwise! If it repeats then he will be rightly out of a job. 

I’m talking purely about this season. Every player gets a clean slate at the turn of a new season from me so it’s only right to extend that to the manager. I will judge whether he should still be here or not purely on what happens this season.  

As things stand we’re undefeated in the league after two games and it’s far, far too early to make judgement.  

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Not sure I understand the point?

When did I say anything about the run at the end of last season? It was absolutely horrendous and you won’t find me saying otherwise! If it repeats then he will be rightly out of a job. 

I’m talking purely about this season. Every player gets a clean slate at the turn of a new season from me so it’s only right to extend that to the manager. I will judge whether he should still be here or not purely on what happens this season.  

As things stand we’re undefeated in the league after two games and it’s far, far too early to make judgement.  

It is the same run so far continuing in 2018 and in the same vein. No more excuses that is all I am asking, the excuses have run out.

I agree about to early to make a judgement but the run needs to be looked at in it's totality, it cannot be confined to room 101, 28 games and counting and 3 tricky games to come.

Mind you if we remain undefeated until the end of the season with 46 draws, will we be called 'the invincible's' or a 'league one team' .

[Alan Dicks]

Brexit

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

As Brentford seem to be a popular comparison / argument if you want to judge the wider picture , many are overlooking transfer dealings (At the heart of both Clubs philosophies)

In the last three  years (Including the window just gone )

 

City have spent £36:45 million on players 

In the same period we have recouped £42.45 milion

A profit on transfer fees of £6m (The sales of £26.55 million this summer having a very large positive effect here)

The value of the current squad listed as £27 million

 

Brentford have spent £23.87 million on players

In the same period , whilst consistently maintaining league position they’ve recouped £57.30 million

A profit on transfer fees of £33.43 million

The value of the current squad listed as £34.5 million

 

Out of interest 

Over the same period

Cardiff spent £42.93. million on players

In the same period , they’ve recouped £13.99 million

These figures are somewhat skewed by their promotion and guaranteed Premier League income into much this window they’ve spent £27.6 million (Of the £42.93million) but recouped nil)

 

 

If you ignore the last  window

Weve spent £26:77 million and recouped  £15.86 million

They spent £15.33 million and recouped  £13.99 million

I understand their annual wage bill is higher than ours but even so , food for thought

 

[BRISTOL86]

4 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

It is the same run so far continuing in 2018 and in the same vein. No more excuses that is all I am asking, the excuses have run out.

I agree about to early to make a judgement but the run needs to be looked at in it's totality, it cannot be confined to room 101, 28 games and counting and 3 tricky games to come.

Mind you if we remain undefeated until the end of the season with 46 draws, will we be called 'the invincible's' or a 'league one team' .

I agree that another run of similar form will be inexcusable.

But I don’t agree that the assessment of the current performance of the manager starts with the start of a bad run last season. His job performance would have been evaluated at the end of last season, a line drawn and expectations set for the coming season. 

You cant selectively choose when to assess it from and coincidentally come out with the point that last season went pear shaped.

By that logic it’s just as reasonable to go back and include the exceptionally good performance at the start of the season. But both are equally irrelevant to the here and now. 

By the powers that be his position will rightfully be assessed on what happens this season and this season only. 

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Out of interest 

Over the same period

Cardiff spent £42.93. million on players

In the same period , whilst consistently maintaining league position they’ve recouped £13.99 million

These figures are somewhat skewed by their promotion and guaranteed Premier League income into much this window they’ve spent £27.6 million (Of the £42.93million) but recouped nil)

 

 

If you ignore the last  window

Weve spent £26:77 million and recouped  £15.86 million

They spent £15.33 million and recouped  £13.99 million

I understand their annual wage bill is higher than ours but even so , food for thought

 

Is part of the large outlay relative to Cardiff and Brentford down to us having a fairly small squad in 15/16 and needing to add players in the windows after Cotterill left?

LJ's first summer window was pretty big spending if I remember rightly, seemed to add lots of players and this wasn't necessarily with the caveat of being offset by Kodjia's departure.

 

[Rob k]

2 hours ago, Robert the bruce said:

I get what your saying..how Lee can't see that we need a quality centre mid is really odd..

We do need that and I’m sure LJ also knows this but show me who we can get for what we need for under 20-25k a week