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Lee Johnson - Time To Go


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3 minutes ago, old_eastender said:

Agree with all you say... just such a shame that LJ's hapless management took us from genuine promotion contenders to mid-table nobodies in the second half of last season. Had we at least got in the play-offs (which from our position at Xmas should have been the least achievement), those players might have had a belief they could reach the premier league without moving on. 

As for this season, having seen all 3 games, think we have enough not to go down but can't see us getting anywhere near the top 6. Not that I expect that will see LJs position under threat, after all he has the ready made excuse of losing our best 3 players.

 

Players aren't going to hang around if offered much more wages and play straight away in the Premium on the off chance that we might go up. It's a job with a short career...you take it when it comes along. You only need to get crocked one week and it's game over...or you lose form. 

See it through the eyes of a player who sees it purely as a job and not as a fan ?

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1 hour ago, Londoner said:

I can't recall any of his posts.

Haha in all fairness Londoner for a wum you are a ******* funny one.

you are out wumming someone who is the self proclaimed forum whipping boy and another wum which I can only suggest is breaking RR

this is funny shit

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11 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

The fanbase doesn’t need destabilising, it’s already split in two!

True and wholly predictable given LJ was a divisive figure when here as a player. Marmite indeed.

The only thing that will unite the club whilst LJ is in charge is success on the pitch, like we had up until Xmas in the league last season. 

Sadly I cannot see LJ achieving another period of success, even for half a season again, we are undoubtedly weaker having lost Flint, Reid, Bryan, Mags & Milan.

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42 minutes ago, MC RISK77 said:

Haha in all fairness Londoner for a wum you are a ******* funny one.

you are out wumming someone who is the self proclaimed forum whipping boy and another wum which I can only suggest is breaking RR

this is funny shit

I genuinely don't know him or know any of his posts no offence to him.

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I'm not particularly enamoured with LJ,  but it seems only fair to give the little fella 10-15 games this season to prove to the fanbase that his way is the correct way, before we get the knives out?  I am all for long term appointments and continuity, and I don't believe knee jerk reactions & change just for the sake of it, benefits the team/club...............and of course, who will we replace him with?   I do think that we have not excelled in the transfer market, and we are stil 2 or so players short of a quality squad, but I hope to be proved wrong?  I thought it strange to read today that LJ states that we are unable to add any more players  to the squad due to finances?  This is after we bid 3.9m euros for a keeper, and since when Bryan and Duric are off the wage bill and have also generated 7M in fees?  Mmmmm?

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2 hours ago, CodeRed said:

This post sums it up, won nothing, going nowhere - mediocre career as a player and has done nothing as a player or manager to suggest he will be a success. He's had support from SL that very few. EFL managers enjoy.

He's had

Time

Free reign to appoint new coaching staff

Revamped top class training facilities

Allowed to sign almost 50 players

5 windows

Inherited a nucleus of good players ( Kodgia Flint Pack Smith Bryan ) to build the basis of a good side or sell and reinvest the fees.

What else does he need?

A win!

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I've been more aggressive in my opinions of Lee Johnson and Bristol Sport in the past, sometimes aimed at our fans which has been misguided (under the influence of the gold) however I'm confident we need a change, I don't see us progressing under the current regime just milling about in the bottom half of the champ.

This club is worthy (Not deserving) of prem footie and I'll put my money in as I always do if I feel the club want to match that. I'm sorry to say after 10 seasons as a ST holder in the EE I'm getting bored of the lack of want to be better than we are.

I'll continue to support the club in the vociferous fashion I always do match day, but privately I'm done. 

XX

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3 hours ago, GasDestroyer said:

I am still with Johnson, but he has to step up and deliver some results over the next 10 games otherwise the atmosphere will be toxic down AG. A lot on here have already lost patience with him, and to be fair, understand why. Too many good players have left in too short a time! Something is amiss.

A bad result Saturday and there will be meltdown on OTIB.

sorry.  simply wrong..   EVERY football club in the country has a change round of players.  Stars come and go all the time  upsetting fan bases.  fact of life. Every player has his price.  We have all seen it at the gate over the years with the wailing and gnashing of teeth. Andy Cole, Bob Taylor, going back in time Collier and sooooo many more.  Football clubs are revolving doors and the only constant is the fans.  The Careys of this world are few and far between.   Live with it.  We might not miss Bryan and Reid that much, the placements look rather good. Time will tell

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1 minute ago, DT The Optimist said:

sorry.  simply wrong..   EVERY football club in the country has a change round of players.  Stars come and go all the time  upsetting fan bases.  fact of life. Every player has his price.  We have all seen it at the gate over the years with the wailing and gnashing of teeth. Andy Cole, Bob Taylor, going back in time Collier and sooooo many more.  Football clubs are revolving doors and the only constant is the fans.  The Careys of this world are few and far between.   Live with it.  We might not miss Bryant and Reid that much, the placements look rather good. Time will tell

Shame about the management, some not bad signings but we are very short of a decent squad... LJ has to responsible for that!!

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1 hour ago, Premier Blue said:

They should both have been given long term contract extensions as they are doing a great job and long may it continue 

'Premier Blue', does this mean that you are a fan of a premiership side that plays in blue? 

I think probably not unless you are the chairman of Bristol Rovers FC!!

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8 minutes ago, DT The Optimist said:

sorry.  simply wrong..   EVERY football club in the country has a change round of players.  Stars come and go all the time  upsetting fan bases.  fact of life. Every player has his price.  We have all seen it at the gate over the years with the wailing and gnashing of teeth. Andy Cole, Bob Taylor, going back in time Collier and sooooo many more.  Football clubs are revolving doors and the only constant is the fans.  The Careys of this world are few and far between.   Live with it.  We might not miss Bryan and Reid that much, the placements look rather good. Time will tell

“Change round” is fine, but mass exodus in such a short period of time causes uncertainty, which is where many are currently. FACT! Time will tell if the new recruits are wise investments. The jury is still out, as far as I am concerned. Stability of the team is crucial to giving the team direction.

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1 hour ago, GasDestroyer said:

“Change round” is fine, but mass exodus in such a short period of time causes uncertainty, which is where many are currently. FACT! Time will tell if the new recruits are wise investments. The jury is still out, as far as I am concerned. Stability of the team is crucial to giving the team direction.

Tbh, there was a financial case, perhaps in this instance a necessity for the big sales this summer.

For all that however, I agree in part- even the financial necessity notwithstanding, I do agree about the churn factor...we've had quite a bit under LJ. I can't or don't see it ad beneficial to the side tbh.

All I wanted this summer was to keep the squad together, a bit of tinkering maybe but just a fair bit of stability with say adding Hunt.

Release the players whose contracts up, let the loanees and Steele leaves, maybe sell one or 2 frnge players because financial reasons notwithstanding (but then again- look at Forest, how are they doing what they're doing)??

Just had we built on last season, small tweaks and this year could have been a real opportunity IMO. Now I see it this year as a transitional, building and bedding in type season- too many changes made too quickly to really go for top 6 I reckon.

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I think the issue is LJ is a good lower league coach.

Coach being the key word.

He can get us playing fantastic football when morale is good, intricate, patient, decent to watch. I doubt I'll ever forget Man Utd and the legs against the Citizens.

I'm a critic of his. Not for his time as player, as many have tried to insulate with regards to my view (he was pretty key to our rise under GJ at times as a member of the squad then, I don't think I've said anything ever with regards to his footballing skill), but from when I review his managerial career in general.

But his man management here has been nothing short of highly questionable, and at its worst, pure lunacy.

Criticising players in the media, dropping Mags for one error as a sub, keeps Paterson in the squad for 12 games towards the end of last season in which he was utter dog, not giving players a few games to get up and running, panic selections when we're off form. Bailey Wright disappearing since he was booed off (before his injury).

Mad Mick (who I won't hide I've touted before), specifically avoids the blame game developing, same with Klopp, and other managers who are good at dealing with squads and getting application from their players.

It's a team game. 11 men. Togetherness, something we've seen evidenced with players instagram posts through the past few season (that core promotion group under Cotts) . And sorry - but some of LJs squad use and management has been absolute squalor. Thats without touching on my theories about players being rushed back from injuries such as O'Dowda And Pisano.

LJ is a 5 out of 10. He's a good coach and can, for periods and odd games, get us playing well - with almost an artistry we haven't seen for years at times.

But not with much if any consistency over a season. And this'll be his 3rd full season in charge.

If we finish below last season, now with what is basically 'his' squad, say 14th of lower, I'd say he has to go.

If we fail to have more than 4 points after Blackburn, that would be roughly 4 wins in 32 games.

That's a 12.5% win rate, including what were two feeble wins against Sheff Wednesday and Ipswich.

The former were crippled with injuries and (are still) in the mire financially. The latter had lost any kind of semblance of their once clockwork like work ethic where fan pressure and taken its toll on management and playing staff alike.

No Words. I like Lee. Fantastic Coach - offensively at the very least when Plan A works. But the current situation is very difficult, the silver lining is we're only 3 games in.

We're his 3rd club. Hes now been a manager for what? 7 years? He's learning, hopefully but consider this.

As a case study - McCarthy, at the age of 35, had Millwall finishing in the play offs of the old First Division in 1994 his second full season in charge. He's got every club hes managed at this level to the playoffs at minimum. Two of them promoted.

His Wolves side was much cheaper than other teams at this level. Same with Millwall, where he made errors, lessons learned that he then applied at Molineux.

The crux of my point is this. If Lee doesnt learn the lessons he should have by this stage with regards to errors made the last two seasons, as well as Barnsley, this time around... I doubt he will in his entire managerial career. At the very least, not in the timescale I think SL will want Prem football. With incremental improved I thing SL wants it in the next 3-4 years, as a personal theory of timescale).

 

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21 minutes ago, Fuber said:

I think the issue is LJ is a good lower league coach.

Coach being the key word.

He can get us playing fantastic football when morale is good, intricate, patient, decent to watch. I doubt I'll ever forget Man Utd and the legs against the Citizens.

I'm a critic of his. Not for his time as player, as many have tried to insulate with regards to my view (he was pretty key to our rise under GJ at times as a member of the squad then, I don't think I've said anything ever with regards to his footballing skill), but from when I review his managerial career in general.

But his man management here has been nothing short of highly questionable, and at its worst, pure lunacy.

Criticising players in the media, dropping Mags for one error as a sub, keeps Paterson in the squad for 12 games towards the end of last season in which he was utter dog, not giving players a few games to get up and running, panic selections when we're off form. Bailey Wright disappearing since he was booed off (before his injury).

Mad Mick (who I won't hide I've touted before), specifically avoids the blame game developing, same with Klopp, and other managers who are good at dealing with squads and getting application from their players.

It's a team game. 11 men. Togetherness, something we've seen evidenced with players instagram posts through the past few season (that core promotion group under Cotts) . And sorry - but some of LJs squad use and management has been absolute squalor. Thats without touching on my theories about players being rushed back from injuries such as O'Dowda And Pisano.

LJ is a 5 out of 10. He's a good coach and can, for periods and odd games, get us playing well - with almost an artistry we haven't seen for years at times.

But not with much if any consistency over a season. And this'll be his 3rd full season in charge.

If we finish below last season, now with what is basically 'his' squad, say 14th of lower, I'd say he has to go.

If we fail to have more than 4 points after Blackburn, that would be roughly 4 wins in 32 games.

That's a 12.5% win rate, including what were two feeble wins against Sheff Wednesday and Ipswich.

The former were crippled with injuries and (are still) in the mire financially. The latter had lost any kind of semblance of their once clockwork like work ethic where fan pressure and taken its toll on management and playing staff alike.

No Words. I like Lee. Fantastic Coach - offensively at the very least when Plan A works. But the current situation is very difficult, the silver lining is we're only 3 games in.

We're his 3rd club. Hes now been a manager for what? 7 years? He's learning, hopefully but consider this.

As a case study - McCarthy, at the age of 35, had Millwall finishing in the play offs of the old First Division in 1994 his second full season in charge. He's got every club hes managed at this level to the playoffs at minimum. Two of them promoted.

His Wolves side was much cheaper than other teams at this level. Same with Millwall, where he made errors, lessons learned that he then applied at Molineux.

The crux of my point is this. If Lee doesnt learn the lessons he should have by this stage with regards to errors made the last two seasons, as well as Barnsley, this time around... I doubt he will in his entire managerial career. At the very least, not in the timescale I think SL will want Prem football. With incremental improved I thing SL wants it in the next 3-4 years, as a personal theory of timescale).

 

I agree with some of your observations.........but a comparison with a Millwall side from 24 years ago.......when the world, and the world of football was an altogether different place, doesn't exactly strengthen your point of view.  So who replaces LJ if he should depart?

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6 hours ago, old_eastender said:

Agree with all you say... just such a shame that LJ's hapless management took us from genuine promotion contenders to mid-table nobodies in the second half of last season. Had we at least got in the play-offs (which from our position at Xmas should have been the least achievement), those players might have had a belief they could reach the premier league without moving on. 

As for this season, having seen all 3 games, think we have enough not to go down but can't see us getting anywhere near the top 6. Not that I expect that will see LJs position under threat, after all he has the ready made excuse of losing our best 3 players.

 

Just wondering who's management it was that had us as "genuine promotion contenders" in the first place?

Can't have been Johnson, on account of him being hapless.

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8 hours ago, longyears said:

Lee has achieved nothing as a manager. He has never won a promotion and he has never won a trophy of any sort His record in the transfer market ignoring the sale of players he inherited is little short of a farce. His record in the loan market bar one player is even worse. Why anyone thinks he will succeed as a championship manager almost beggars belief - based on what ?

Truth is at any other club he would be long gone. Quite why SL thinks he is the answer again beggars belief.

The above is factual - if you wish to shoot me down please be factual also !

Ok, factually, he has improved our finishing position in the Championship during each of the last 3 seasons. FACT! 

Hes far from faultless, but to suggest that someone who’s doing ok as manager of a championship team, will never succeed as a Championship manager is utter drivel. Surely you can see that..?! 

 

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Any club needs to bring together the team and supporters, from day 1 LJ divided the club, on and off the pitch. He is making it up as he goes along (He is.. sign Tomlin but today you want to play a pressing game, is one of a huge number of examples) and has a major leadership issue that will mean he cannot create a winning set up . Some disagree, maybe many, but BCFC with LJ at the helm is going nowhere. 

Don't sack him. That was due in the summer. Let him play out another charade with his new squad so that anyone in any doubt can  finally see his incompetence. But really, the time to have sacked him has passed, we now must reap what we sow . 

O'Driscol Mk 2 . Talks a good game, inspiration and leadership zero. Has never created a winning team, never been promoted and will never achieve that at BCFC so if SL wants to see Prem football in his lifetime he has to buy a season ticket at Cardiff or change approach. 

Hate all you want. 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Fuber said:

He can get us playing fantastic football when morale is good, intricate, patient, decent to watch. I doubt I'll ever forget Man Utd and the legs against the Citizens.

Agreed

4 hours ago, Fuber said:

But his man management here has been nothing short of highly questionable, and at its worst, pure lunacy.

Criticising players in the media, dropping Mags for one error as a sub, keeps Paterson in the squad for 12 games towards the end of last season in which he was utter dog, not giving players a few games to get up and running, panic selections when we're off form. Bailey Wright disappearing since he was booed off (before his injury).

Agreed - especially the singling out of players, I didn't like it when he singled out Taylor Moore after Ipswich away either.

4 hours ago, Fuber said:

It's a team game. 11 men. Togetherness, something we've seen evidenced with players instagram posts through the past few season (that core promotion group under Cotts) .

What do you mean by this?

4 hours ago, Fuber said:

No Words. I like Lee. Fantastic Coach - offensively at the very least when Plan A works. But the current situation is very difficult, the silver lining is we're only 3 games in.

We're his 3rd club. Hes now been a manager for what? 7 years? He's learning, hopefully but consider this.

5 years

4 hours ago, Fuber said:

As a case study - McCarthy, at the age of 35, had Millwall finishing in the play offs of the old First Division in 1994 his second full season in charge. He's got every club hes managed at this level to the playoffs at minimum. Two of them promoted.

His Wolves side was much cheaper than other teams at this level. Same with Millwall, where he made errors, lessons learned that he then applied at Molineux.

Football, and finances, have moved on so much from even the example of Wolves that comparison is very tenuous.

4 hours ago, Fuber said:

The crux of my point is this. If Lee doesnt learn the lessons he should have by this stage with regards to errors made the last two seasons, as well as Barnsley, this time around... I doubt he will in his entire managerial career. At the very least, not in the timescale I think SL will want Prem football. With incremental improved I thing SL wants it in the next 3-4 years, as a personal theory of timescale).

Agreed.

I know we've debated this before but there's lots you write that I agree with. I think LJ has some excellent attributes, I think he can spot potential in players well and develop that. I believe that Reid, Pack, Brownhill, O'Dowda and Diedhiou have all improved as a direct result of being coached by LJ.

I would love to know the truth about our transfers, the rumours about Ashton's involvement for example. I'd love to know what's really gone on there and whether the signings have all really been LJ's.

I think LJ shows signs of being a very good manager, the club like him of course because he's very professional, a great representative for the club and is prepared to work with the tools he's got here. That will buy him time. I also really like how he clearly buys into all areas of the club - especially the academy.

I love the innovation he's introduced, in principle anyway, but I question sometimes whether this (and his idolisation of Guardiola) means he can try to be too clever at times, something @Davefevs has suggested. Obviously we don't know what happens behind closed doors, but I can imagine that with footballers - sometimes less is more when it comes to motivating them and instructing them. I wonder if LJ gets a bit carried away and gives them information overload. Could be wild speculation of course.

I would really love him to be a success here, I think he's a genuinely decent person and cares for the club. I think there's no way he can survive another poor run though, and things have simply got to improve in the league - and fast.

Personally, I believe the plan in place will work eventually. In my opinion we will reach the Prem within the next 4/5 seasons. I can see what we're trying to do.. and when you factor in FFP@Mr Popodopolous it goes some way to explaining the way we spend money. This is very important and something that not everyone seems to consider/grasp. It also doesn't help that we are competing with teams with massively greater resources than us. The wages some of the clubs in this league will pay means it's very difficult for clubs like us to compete.

I think something we could do that is achievable and should help for a relatively small cost (in comparison to transfer fees) is to improve our scouting. How is it so many teams of our size or even smaller (Brentford, Preston, Peterborough.. even Angers!) seem able to unearth gems time after time?

Our scouting isn't all bad and has improved dramatically over the years. From what I hear, our infrastructure was years behind our competitors (even teams we view as smaller) and we've had to play catchup. I believe Tinnion is doing a very good job too. 

What I'd like us to do is explore what these teams that scout so well are doing and try and better it. There must be something we can learn from other teams in this respect. It would make LJ's job a lot easier because something has clearly gone wrong especially with foreign signings.

Good thoughtful post anyway, I have an impression from the way you write that you are a younger person, out of curiosity is that correct? 

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15 minutes ago, Psychopomp said:

Any club needs to bring together the team and supporters, from day 1 LJ divided the club, on and off the pitch. He is making it up as he goes along (He is.. sign Tomlin but today you want to play a pressing game, is one of a huge number of examples) and has a major leadership issue that will mean he cannot create a winning set up . Some disagree, maybe many, but BCFC with LJ at the helm is going nowhere. 

Don't sack him. That was due in the summer. Let him play out another charade with his new squad so that anyone in any doubt can  finally see his incompetence. But really, the time to have sacked him has passed, we now must reap what we sow . 

O'Driscol Mk 2 . Talks a good game, inspiration and leadership zero. Has never created a winning team, never been promoted and will never achieve that at BCFC so if SL wants to see Prem football in his lifetime he has to buy a season ticket at Cardiff or change approach. 

Hate all you want. 

 

 

 

Tomlin was what the fans wanted, LJ obviously wanted him as well and based on his previous half season with us everyone thought he’d be a star. It didn’t work out for both parties. It happens. 

We are 2 games in, unbeaten, most people would’ve taken a draw against Forest and all I ask of a team is to not lose the away games and we got a draw, admittedly Bolton didn’t play pretty stuff but they beat West Brom on the opening day so we could look at that as a point gained in games to come. We haven’t had the easiest first 2 games imho and 2 points is an acceptable return 

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