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Could our next head coach come from within?


EnderMB

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2 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

When SL finally comes to his senses I hope he clears all 3 out and employs a proper coaching team with proven records. The money LJ has wasted on fees and wages. For players who contributed FA would have paid the wages of a top coach 3 times over.

I want to disagree with you, but I just can’t. 

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2 hours ago, Monkeh said:

no it isn't,

he wasn't at the club, he was under contract at Barnsley, it was nether a cheap option (he had 18 months left on his barnsley contract so we had to pay compensation) nore was it a promotion from within (he wasn't at the club)

two recent manager to be promoted from with in were Tinnion and Millen both didn't work out, I very much doubt we'll do it again 

Technically you are right, but as he was an ex player and his Dad managed the club, I think we can say the appointment was 'within' the club.

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47 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

Based on what though

Unremarkable playing career, never won anything - or been on the staff of anyone who has - at any level of football coaching.

The only reason LJ appointed JM or DH was that they were both inexperienced and unlikely to spot what a fraud he is......unlike an experienced assistant.

 

When SL finally comes to his senses I hope he clears all 3 out and employs a proper coaching team with proven records. The money LJ has wasted on fees and wages. For players who contributed FA would have paid the wages of a top coach 3 times over.

Just based on having met & chatted to him on several occasions. 

He’s passionate about the game, very focused on learning and being successful. He’s a very decent bloke & interesting to chat too, but comes across with an authority that suggests he won’t take any rubbish. 

Infact, your summary, combined with mine, sounds very like a certain Arsen Wenger when he started. 

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2 hours ago, Monkeh said:

two recent manager to be promoted from with in were Tinnion and Millen both didn't work out, I very much doubt we'll do it again 

To be fair to Steve Lansdown, he didn’t really have much choice when he appointed Millen - he’d just gone through the interview process and selected Steve Coppell, obviously that went disastrously wrong after only a couple of games so it would have been very hard for SL to go crawling back to candidates so soon after he’d turned them down in favour of Coppell - so Millen was in the frame and the role was plonked in his lap with little or no preparation time...

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53 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

Based on what though

Unremarkable playing career, never won anything - or been on the staff of anyone who has - at any level of football coaching.

The only reason LJ appointed JM or DH was that they were both inexperienced and unlikely to spot what a fraud he is......unlike an experienced  assistant.

You may not like the job LJ is doing, that is your prerogative - but label him “a fraud” is utterly ridiculous and only makes you look ignorant. 

Like him or not, LJ lives and breathes football and Genuinely loves this club. He works exceptionally hard and is in no way “a fraud”

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1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

I don’t think that promoting a player to manager works, as they are “one of the lads” and the change simply doesn’t work....

It worked when Kenny Dalglish went from player to player-manager at Liverpool and won the league and cup double in his first season in charge....extreme example I know, but it can work to promote from within....hope we don’t go down that road though...

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1 minute ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

It worked when Kenny Dalglish went from player to player-manager at Liverpool and won the league and cup double in his first season in charge....extreme example I know, but it can work to promote from within....hope we don’t go down that road though...

There are usually some exceptions to any generalisation. 

It worked here, to an extent, with Joe Jordan, but generally, in any walk of life, an internal promotion is harder to be a success. Not because of the person whose promoted, but the acceptance of that from those working around them. 

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23 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

It worked when Kenny Dalglish went from player to player-manager at Liverpool and won the league and cup double in his first season in charge....extreme example I know, but it can work to promote from within....hope we don’t go down that road though...

That was 32 years ago

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22 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

 

Like him or not, LJ lives and breathes football and Genuinely loves this club. He works exceptionally hard and is in no way “a fraud”

How do you know, particularly "loves this club"? You only have his reported word for it and anyone who would pay me the sort of money he gets would receive my undying love. Until a better offer came along and then my love would be transferred instantly.

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20 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

You may not like the job LJ is doing, that is your prerogative - but label him “a fraud” is utterly ridiculous and only makes you look ignorant. 

Like him or not, LJ lives and breathes football and Genuinely loves this club. He works exceptionally hard and is in no way “a fraud”

A fraud in that he "talks a good game" to quote Neil Warnock ( who from his tone wasn't that impressed)  all his charts patterns and talk of clutch moments and wanting to "sit down with Pep and a tactics board"  belies the fact that he's won nothing, and built nothing despite having every thing handed to him on a plate. Clearly I don't expect promotion but we should be seeing signs of improvement and a sense of something being built. But we're not. Did we sign 40+ players just to stand still? 

I'm sure he works hard, loves football and loves the club but that's not the point.....He's not taking the club anywhere and that's kind of the point of managing Bristol City..

If you're satisfied with what he's done in 2 and a half years and 5 windows then keep supporting him. - but my eyes are wide open.

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I too have only just noticed that the "snake" and the "rubbish" have disappeared. Didn't really understand "snake" and hated "rubbish". If you do not agree with something someone says, you don't usually shout "rubbish". Far more polite surely, to say something along the lines of "my dear old chap, I simply must take issue with you on that particular point". As we have a "like" we surely must have a counter point, perhaps "disagree" or "dislike".

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3 hours ago, David Brent said:

I’m absolutely sure that Jamie McAllister will be the next head coach, whenever it is.

Tinnion, and then Millen, were a long time ago. 

Only if he manages at a lower league level before taking on the job here.

It's one thing being the assistant, but quite a different thing occupying the hot seat.

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19 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Only if he manages at a lower league level before taking on the job here.

It's one thing being the assistant, but quite a different thing occupying the hot seat.

But that would defeat the purpose of promoting from within. If someone spends a year or two elsewhere, they miss out of two years worth of academy graduates, and in the time they're away from the club numerous things may have changed, such as club structure, board members, club strategy, etc.

It's probably too early for someone like McAllister, but let's say we poach an ex-pro (ex-City would be nice, but anyone really). The club would need to change its structure, but if the club push the education aspect for its coaches to ensure that they get to regularly visit other leading clubs and academies to learn their craft, get to spend time with the academy lads, and are fast-tracked through any coaching badges it improves our ability to get top-quality coaches at the club - instead of grabbing the mate of the head coach each time.

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2 minutes ago, EnderMB said:

But that would defeat the purpose of promoting from within. If someone spends a year or two elsewhere, they miss out of two years worth of academy graduates, and in the time they're away from the club numerous things may have changed, such as club structure, board members, club strategy, etc.

It's probably too early for someone like McAllister, but let's say we poach an ex-pro (ex-City would be nice, but anyone really). The club would need to change its structure, but if the club push the education aspect for its coaches to ensure that they get to regularly visit other leading clubs and academies to learn their craft, get to spend time with the academy lads, and are fast-tracked through any coaching badges it improves our ability to get top-quality coaches at the club - instead of grabbing the mate of the head coach each time.

Maybe, but I think our club, like most, appreciate that you can have coaching qualifications coming out yer ass, but actually managing is something else.  In particular, the man management skills have to come from experience, not theory.

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1 hour ago, CodeRed said:

A fraud in that he "talks a good game" to quote Neil Warnock ( who from his tone wasn't that impressed)  all his charts patterns and talk of clutch moments and wanting to "sit down with Pep and a tactics board"  belies the fact that he's won nothing, and built nothing despite having every thing handed to him on a plate. Clearly I don't expect promotion but we should be seeing signs of improvement and a sense of something being built. But we're not. Did we sign 40+ players just to stand still? 

I'm sure he works hard, loves football and loves the club but that's not the point.....He's not taking the club anywhere and that's kind of the point of managing Bristol City..

If you're satisfied with what he's done in 2 and a half years and 5 windows then keep supporting him. - but my eyes are wide open.

He’s established us as a competitive championship side, so yes, I think he’s done ok. 

Of course, there are concerns about the good and bad extremes in the runs of results under him. That needs addressing, absolutely. 

He’s having to re-build the team, again, having lost 3 key first team players and a couple of other regular squad players. I think our summer business has largely countered those needs, although I do think we are probably at least 1 x GK, 1 x CB & 1 x CF short of where we need to be to improve on last season. 

If we go on another prolonged bad run (10+) games again, then I will concede that he’ll have had enough chances to show he’s unable to address such situations quickly enough, and agree that he’s not the man to take us beyond where he has got us to at this point. 

I do believe that it won’t be for the want of trying and find the personal abuse and agenda against him (from some) disgusting and uncalled for. 

I’d love him to succeed here, it’s a new season, (largely) new team and a clean slate again. Let’s see how things go between now and October and then review what kind of position we are in. 

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3 hours ago, Robbored said:

If/when LJ moves on I’d expect either Macca or Holden to step up in a similar fashion to the old Liverpool “boot room” that was so successful during thier hey days.

The benefits are clear - much less disruption to the club when the manager changes. Continuity with the clubs ethos is essential 

If LJ goes in the near future it will be because of failure on the pitch in which case the last thing we will want is continuity 

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Cotterill was a manager, though, and the only reason Lansdown signed him as a manager was because we were in the shit in League 1 and he needed to do something drastic. Once promotion was achieved, it was back to Plan A again.

The only way we'll see Cotterill back is if we get relegated again, but you'd hope that Lansdown wouldn't allow it to happen again.

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2 hours ago, CodeRed said:

A fraud in that he "talks a good game" to quote Neil Warnock ( who from his tone wasn't that impressed)  all his charts patterns and talk of clutch moments and wanting to "sit down with Pep and a tactics board"  belies the fact that he's won nothing, and built nothing despite having every thing handed to him on a plate. Clearly I don't expect promotion but we should be seeing signs of improvement and a sense of something being built. But we're not. Did we sign 40+ players just to stand still? 

I'm sure he works hard, loves football and loves the club but that's not the point.....He's not taking the club anywhere and that's kind of the point of managing Bristol City..

If you're satisfied with what he's done in 2 and a half years and 5 windows then keep supporting him. - but my eyes are wide open.

I’m satisfied. 

He hasn’t taken us down. Neither of the Johnsons did, yet some sectors of our support wanted GJ gone (where did that get us? Oh yes but we can’t talk about that can we!) and now Lee - probably because of some deluded fantasy that his replacement (Klopp?!!!)  would suddenly romp the league and herald a new premiership era for the club.  

In reality, whilst POSSIBLE, it’s highly unlikely - more likely would be a return to league 1 and a 4-year setback. 

I will criticise Lee when he deserves it. Right now we are only 2 games into the season and he hasn’t had time to do anything that warrants criticism yet in my book. 

Perhaps we should start a ‘Lee Johnson Dustbin Thread’  for people to use,  rather than have these popping up as new posts every other day?  Just a thought.....,,

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