The Bristol City v Middlesbrough Match Day 3

[Top Robin]

Just now, bexhill reds said:

I reckon there is worthy team inside this lot. Some really good individual performances, Kelly, Webster, Pack, Mapeena (can’t remember how his name is spelt). Deserved at least one goal. I think with Famara back there’ll be a presence up top.

Lee wont find it

[Jerseybean]

1 minute ago, bexhill reds said:

I reckon there is worthy team inside this lot. Some really good individual performances, Kelly, Webster, Pack, Mapeena (can’t remember how his name is spelt). Deserved at least one goal. I think with Famara back there’ll be a presence up top.

I agree BR up to a point, in that LK, MP and NM all looked the part today.......in fact I thought everyone had a tidy game, without ever really looking like threatening/scoring.

However, major concerns for me are the lack of goal scoring opportunities and where are our goals are going to come from, even when FD is back don’t think we have a strong forward presence. I am mystified why LJ has said he’s not looking to bring in a loan forward. Seems that he believes that neat, possession, in your own half gets you points.

 

[Cider_boy]

4 minutes ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

Flint saw it. He left.

Reid saw it. He left.

Bryan saw it. He left.

The 3 of them, with far more ITK insight than any of us have on here realised that their dreams would be better met elsewhere.

And they left. Ok so we don’t know what those dreams might have been but I’m guessing one of them might well be Premier League football.

Yep, it takes lots of ITK insight to know you have better chance of premier league football by joining a premier league team.

As for Flint, Boro are certainly considered more likely than us to go up this year too, and is probably being paid a LOT more too.

[GIBBO THE GREAT]

6 minutes ago, Jerseybean said:

I agree BR up to a point, in that LK, MP and NM all looked the part today.......in fact I thought everyone had a tidy game, without ever really looking like threatening/scoring.

However, major concerns for me are the lack of goal scoring opportunities and where are our goals are going to come from, even when FD is back don’t think we have a strong forward presence. I am mystified why LJ has said he’s not looking to bring in a loan forward. Seems that he believes that neat, possession, in your own half gets you points.

 

i thought the chuckle brothers football would end when one of them passed away but alas not 

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

23 minutes ago, BCFC Richard said:

This is the most ridiculous matchday thread I can remember. We're playing one of the better teams in the league, we've been on top for long spells of the game and people are acting like we've been destroyed and completely outplayed. Its a game we could easily have got something out of on another day, we've created plenty and its not quite run for us.

Obviously, there are things to be concerned about particularly at the back where we have been sloppy at times and Hunt in particular needs better concentration on his first touch and passing. But GK looks good (particularly for a free), Kelly had a great game, Pack looks fantastic and Wieman is quality. 

Here are the problems, people were crowing over our summer signings, but 3 matches in and already we are playing with a patchwork defence, last season we lost two right backs and only signed one and this season we lose two centre backs and only sign one, how unprofessional can a club get? in short our bench looks short on quality and experience.

We undoubtedly play some great pretty football but just run out of ideas in and around the box, our final pass is poor and our crossing is poor, yes we had bad luck towards the end but we never once created a worthwhile clear cut chance. We also over complicate when in some very good forward positions.

Watkins was in and out but at least is a bit more of a physical presence than anyone else in that position, ODowda is struggling, Taylor sad to say is a waste of space, both starting full backs look full of mistakes, hopefully Da Silva will start on Tuesday night and of course then there is Paterson ok he did improve slightly in the 2nd half but one good shot on target is nowhere near enough from him and after Taylor replaced Smith, he was just awful with his extra defensive duties, he needs to be dropped.

There were some great performances Kelly and Pack in particular were excellent, Webster, Brownhill and Smith did not let us down and the keeper was OK and of course Wiemann kept going but lacked real support.

But as I said at half time all of the danger that Middlesborough caused us had their roots firmly set in our pretty football breaking down in the opponents half because of lack of quality and over complication.

I believe already our summer business is exposing lack of depth and quality and another rash ignoring of the need of another centre back.

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by Esmond Million's Bung

[BCFC Rich]

3 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Here are the problems, people were crowing over our summer signings, but 3 matches in and already we are playing with a patchwork defence, last season we lost two right backs and only signed one and this season we lose two centre backs and only sign one, how unprofessional can a club get? in short our bench looks short on quality and experience.

We undoubtedly play some great pretty football but just run out of ideas in and around the box, our final pass is poor and our crossing is poor, yes we had bad luck towards the end but we never once created a worthwhile clear cut chance. We also over complicate when in some very good forward positions.

Watkins was in and out but at least is a bit more of a physical presence than anyone else in that position, ODowda is struggling, Taylor sad to say is a waste of space, both starting full backs look full of mistakes, hopefully Da Silva will start on Tuesday night and of course then there is Paterson ok he did improve slightly in the 2nd half but one good shot on target is nowhere near enough from him and after Taylor replaced Smith, he was just awful with his extra defensive duties, he needs to be dropped.

There were some great performances Kelly and Pack in particular were excellent, Webster, Brownhill and Smith did not let us down and the keeper was OK.

But as I said at half time all of the danger that Middlesborough caused us had their roots firmly set in our pretty football breaking down in the opponents half because of lack of quality and over complication.

I believe already our summer business is exposing lack of depth and quality and another rash ignoring of the need of another centre back.

 

 

Here's the problem - People will make comments like this. At CB we have Wright, Baker, Taylor, Hegeler, Webster, and Kelly why would we sign another? Kelly played today and was one of our best players. RB we have Pisano and Hunt as well as Wright who can deputise there and a youngster in Pring who played there a few times for Hereford. Other people moaning about LB well we have signed Dasilva to play there but he only 1st trained with us 24hours before the Plymouth game so obviously wasn't quite ready yet. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

46 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

Why did he bother buying Eisa? 2-0 down at home and a goal scorer stays with his arse glued to the bench.

Well at least we changed a full back

[BigAl&Toby]

11 minutes ago, Cider_boy said:

Yep, it takes lots of ITK insight to know you have better chance of premier league football by joining a premier league team.

As for Flint, Boro are certainly considered more likely than us to go up this year too, and is probably being paid a LOT more too.

My point was that if they’d felt they had a realistic chance of playing in the PL with BCFC they’d might have been less tempted.

1 of the 3 went to another Championship club. He must have thought they were a better bet.

Another of the 3 was within minutes of signing for another Championship club. He must have felt the same.

And the other fancied a shot with Colin in Wales.

That says it all for me. Under this regime we’re only going one way. And up it ain’t.

[BobBobSuperBob]

38 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

So much better second half. Why do we have to wait until 2 down to play this way?

We did show some spirit

But don’t be deceived by the fact Middlesnpborough were happy to sit there on their 2-0 lead  without breaking sweat 

[fatchers]

Kelly stood up to some rough treatment from Asdombalonga and Flint today. I thought he did very well but we need a centre half and a striker who can hit the target. Pretty football but no end product or real threat up front.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

3 minutes ago, BCFC Richard said:

Here's the problem - People will make comments like this. At CB we have Wright, Baker, Taylor, Hegeler, Webster, and Kelly why would we sign another? Kelly played today and was one of our best players. RB we have Pisano and Hunt as well as Wright who can deputise there and a youngster in Pring who played there a few times for Hereford. Other people moaning about LB well we have signed Dasilva to play there but he only 1st trained with us 24hours before the Plymouth game so obviously wasn't quite ready yet. 

Because Wright and Hegeler are both injured that's why.

Your solution is to shoe horn in players out of position and just wing it, I say the squad lacks depth and quality and that was exposed today and will be exposed throughout the season.

[chinapig]

1 minute ago, BCFC Richard said:

Here's the problem - People will make comments like this. At CB we have Wright, Baker, Taylor, Hegeler, Webster, and Kelly why would we sign another? Kelly played today and was one of our best players. RB we have Pisano and Hunt as well as Wright who can deputise there and a youngster in Pring who played there a few times for Hereford. Other people moaning about LB well we have signed Dasilva to play there but he only 1st trained with us 24hours before the Plymouth game so obviously wasn't quite ready yet. 

Because Kelly was earmarked for left back and the others are injury prone. Hegeler in addition seems unlikely to play for us again, assuming he is ever fit.

We sold 2 centre backs, sent one out on loan and brought one in, a net reduction of 2.

[BCFC Rich]

2 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Because Wright and Hegeler are both injured that's why.

Your solution is to shoe horn in players out of position and just wing it, I say the squad lacks depth and quality and that was exposed today and will be exposed throughout the season.

We played 2 CB's at CB today despite having 3 out injured and you would like us to have signed a 6th? Pisano at LB is very likely to be a one-game occurrence because of how recently Dasilva came in. 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

44 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

So much better second half. Why do we have to wait until 2 down to play this way?

 

34 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Deserved something out of that second half in fairness. If we’d have played that way from the start we may have actually got something from the game. 

I said exactly the same last week and was told that we apparently never changed the way we played and we played exactly the same way.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Just now, BCFC Richard said:

We played 2 CB's at CB today despite having 3 out injured and you would like us to have signed a 6th? Pisano at LB is very likely to be a one-game occurrence because of how recently Dasilva came in. 

We could have brought in a short term loan, that would have made sense, in the same way that after selling Djuric and knowing the Diedhiou was banned for 6 games, we should have brought in cover.

We haven't in both cases it's a mistake, it's unprofessional and it will end up costing us.

[BCFC Rich]

3 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

We could have brought in a short term loan, that would have made sense, in the same way that after selling Djuric and knowing the Diedhiou was banned for 6 games, we should have brought in cover.

We haven't in both cases it's a mistake, it's unprofessional and it will end up costing us.

I would agree with you with regards to forwards (we're crying out for a natural CF on the pitch), Eisa is a gamble and much as I like Taylor he's running out of time to show some consistent champ form or at least force himself into the starting line up for a spell. So We lack depth there but with regards to CB's and FB's we can't have 3 players of the right quality for every position it would be ridiculous to try and sustain that. 

[nickolas]

Pisano clearly only played for extra height. 

However, why have we set our squad up with a team of vertically challenged players?!

crying out for some height and physical strength. 

Getting bullied in both boxes. 

And for the life of me, is Webster ever going to make a CB?! Never seen a CB lay on the floor so much. Yes its great he can play out from the back but i’d rather he was able to defend first. 

Basically every goal conceded this season has been from a cross, yet LJ sets up to defend with full backs narrow, enticing crosses!

sorry, budget issues or not, hes tactically inept. 

Already we are heading towards new Manager territory im afraid. 

[BRISTOL86]

28 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

We did show some spirit

But don’t be deceived by the fact Middlesnpborough were happy to sit there on their 2-0 lead  without breaking sweat 

Agreed but I think on the whole our performance was considerably better. There were times when Boro could barely get out of their half, and they were even trying to do it(!)

22 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

 

I said exactly the same last week and was told that we apparently never changed the way we played and we played exactly the same way.

If you mean me I didn’t say we didn’t change the way that we played, just that we weren’t exactly playing badly prior, unlike today when we were second best for most of the first half 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

3 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

If you mean me I didn’t say we didn’t change the way that we played, just that we weren’t exactly playing badly prior, unlike today when we were second best for most of the first half 

I didn't mean you.

What I saw last week was we were slow and predictable in our build up, before running out of ideas and before going 2-0 down. Never looking like we would ever score.

This week I saw far more of high press/higher tempo build up before running out of ideas in the first half and looking more threatening, which apart from the ongoing running out of ideas bit was an improvement IMHO.

In the 2nd half today I saw more movement in and around the opponents box than the first half but the same running out of ideas and poor delivery as the first half and first hour of last week.

Ergo for me the problem is the same as it has been for me for more than 2 seasons (more like 3 seasons) we lack creativity around the opponents box to make our possession based game work, I don't think LJ sees it that way, so for me because I believe our squad is weaker than last then this season is going to be a very long slog.

[BRISTOL86]

2 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

I didn't mean you.

What I saw last week was we were slow and predictable in our build up, before running out of ideas and before going 2-0 down. Never looking like we would ever score.

This week I saw far more of high press/higher tempo build up before running out of ideas in the first half and looking more threatening, which apart from the ongoing running out of ideas bit was an improvement IMHO.

In the 2nd half today I saw more movement in and around the opponents box than the first half but the same running out of ideas and poor delivery as the first half and first hour of last week.

Ergo for me the problem is the same as it has been for me for more than 2 seasons (more like 3 seasons) we lack creativity around the opponents box to make our possession based game work, I don't think LJ sees it that way, so for me because I believe our squad is weaker than last then this season is going to be a very long slog.

Fair points. Thought I do think that we were actually pretty unlucky in front of goal today. We actually did create a few decent chances and didn’t really get that bit of luck. 

For me the problems are so much worse at the other end of the pitch. 4 out of our 5 goals conceded in the league were just desperately poor defending. 

Yea I’d like to see us be more clinical but we didn’t lack opportunity today. 

Edited August 18, 2018 by BRISTOL86

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Just now, BRISTOL86 said:

Fair points. Thought I do think that we were actually pretty unlucky in front of goal today. We actually did create a few decent chances and didn’t really get that bit of luck. 

For me the problems are so much worse at the other end of the pitch. 4 out of our 5 goals conceded in the league were just desperately poor defending. 

Sorry I cannot remember a decent chance, not what you call a nailed on goal scoring opportunity, all of our chances were half chances and that is backed up by the stats that show:-

Attack

Clear-Cut Chances 

03

 

[BRISTOL86]

6 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Sorry I cannot remember a decent chance, not what you call a nailed on goal scoring opportunity, all of our chances were half chances and that is backed up by the stats that show:-

Attack

Clear-Cut Chances 

03

 

Well we hit the woodwork two or three times so you can’t get much closer. Weimann had a decent chance first half and we got in behind loads in the second half. Sadly we seem afraid to shoot at times. 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

13 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Well we hit the woodwork two or three times so you can’t get much closer. Weimann had a decent chance first half and we got in behind loads in the second half. Sadly we seem afraid to shoot at times. 

That is classed as a miss, as Brendan Rogers found out at Liverpool.

I think you are clutching at straws, as I said I cannot recall one decent chance, we did get in behind but the delivery was appalling, even you cannot argue with the stats, we did not create one clear cut chance, that is a fact, the best chance might have been the one that Paterson got stuck under his foot but he wasn't strong enough.

I have already said that we were unlucky but that is all we were, the bottom line we do not create enough clear cut goal scoring chances and once more that is born out by the stats, in our 3 league matches so far we have actually created one clear cut chance and presumably that was our first at Bolton.

Also I do not agree with your finger pointing at the defence, both goals came from initially from situations where he had control of the ball in the opponents half and both goals were down to piss weak defending by Hunt, defenders have to be far stronger.

[1960maaan]

26 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Sorry I cannot remember a decent chance, not what you call a nailed on goal scoring opportunity, all of our chances were half chances and that is backed up by the stats that show:-

Attack

Clear-Cut Chances 

03

 

Granted few and far between but Patterson (without seeing the highlights properly) had a good chance and tried to go around the defender instead of shooting. Not sure if you'd count the 2nd one that hit the woodwork as clear  but fractions lower and it's in. The first one was unlucky but not what I'd call clear cut, even the one the keeper saved diving to his right , not sure I'd say clear cut.
I did look at their goals though, though we were unlucky. First hits Webster on the back of the head and wrong foots Hunt, I would say we should have won the ball easier though. The 2nd goal is a foul on Hunt, looks like Asombalonga has both hands on Hunts shoulders to win the header, how the Ref didn't see it ?????

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 minute ago, 1960maaan said:

Granted few and far between but Patterson (without seeing the highlights properly) had a good chance and tried to go around the defender instead of shooting. Not sure if you'd count the 2nd one that hit the woodwork as clear  but fractions lower and it's in. The first one was unlucky but not what I'd call clear cut, even the one the keeper saved diving to his right , not sure I'd say clear cut.
I did look at their goals though, though we were unlucky. First hits Webster on the back of the head and wrong foots Hunt, I would say we should have won the ball easier though. The 2nd goal is a foul on Hunt, looks like Asombalonga has both hands on Hunts shoulders to win the header, how the Ref didn't see it ?????

How could that be a chance he pretty much stepped on the ball and had a defender in front of him who wanted the ball more.

Both goals conceded were weak defending by Hunt, again the Middlesborough players wanted it more both times.

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Flint must be regretting his move already.

In fairness we have a makeshift back four and a makeshift front two .

Damage limitation now .

Remember 2-0 is a dangerous score .

 

That was probably one of the easiest games Flint has had for a fair few years...

[BRISTOL86]

18 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

That is classed as a miss, as Brendan Rogers found out at Liverpool.

I think you are clutching at straws, as I said I cannot recall one decent chance, we did get in behind but the delivery was appalling, even you cannot argue with the stats, we did not create one clear cut chance, that is a fact, the best chance might have been the one that Paterson got stuck under his foot but he wasn't strong enough.

I have already said that we were unlucky but that is all we were, the bottom line we do not create enough clear cut goal scoring chances and once more that is born out by the stats, in our 3 league matches so far we have actually created one clear cut chance and presumably that was our first at Bolton.

Also I do not agree with your finger pointing at the defence, both goals came from initially from situations where he had control of the ball in the opponents half and both goals were down to piss weak defending by Hunt, defenders have to be far stronger.

I don’t disagree that we could and should create more. But like I said you shouldn’t have to score 2 goals every game just to salvage a point. We’ll score a reasonable amount of goals this season IMO but once again it’ll be goals against that will be our downfall. 

Just like 17/18

Just like 16/17

Just like 15/16

Simply have not learned.

[Cider_boy]

15 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

40 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Well we hit the woodwork two or three times so you can’t get much closer. Weimann had a decent chance first half and we got in behind loads in the second half. Sadly we seem afraid to shoot at times. 

That is classed as a miss, as Brendan Rogers found out at Liverpool.

yes, it is a miss, and not a shot on target. But to say a shot which hit the woodwork automatically isn't a good or clear chance isn't the same thing.

Hitting the post from a really narrow angle may not be a great chance, hitting it from right in front of the goal, it probably was a good chance.

 

Saying that, our problem seems to be that too many of our shots and shots on target are long range. You are more likely to score from a 'good chance' 6 yards out than a good chance 20 yards out.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 minute ago, Cider_boy said:

yes, it is a miss, and not a shot on target. But to say a shot which hit the woodwork automatically isn't a good or clear chance isn't the same thing.

Hitting the post from a really narrow angle may not be a great chance, hitting it from right in front of the goal, it probably was a good chance.

 

Saying that, our problem seems to be that too many of our shots and shots on target are long range. You are more likely to score from a 'good chance' 6 yards out than a good chance 20 yards out.

Take it up with the people who compile the stats, the stats that LJ especially puts so much faith into.

[Davefevs]

Be interested to see what the xG post-match ratings are for City’s chances.