LJ publicly puts pressure on SL for signings

[RedM]

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

Yes but it does not help when Lansdown says at the end of last season he wants to push the top 6 this season. I don’t mind our philosphy but don’t tell me we can be a playoff team when you are going to sell our 3 best players and not use more of the funds to improve the squad. We have holes in the squad at CB, GK, CM and ST but yet no signs of any incoming.  Now we are in this horrible cycle of buying average players with average players we can’t get rid of. 

Our summer business would have been good if we kept Flint, Bryan and Reid. As it stands, however, we bought supplemental players with no real players to help them shine. So I am not sure what we are doing anymore. The actions of the club say we want to at least break even most seasons. Their words say we want to compete for promotion. Think that is where the anger comes from. Say one thing and do another. 

I agree with you. As soon as I heard SL’s interview on the last day of the season the message was we will be selling,which won’t be popular, and we will have to achieve more with less. Of course SL isn’t going to indicate that we are not wanting promotion, he isn’t going to come out and say that isn’t our aim but we can all read between the lines as time unfolds even if we give the benefit of the doubt now.

We had a great cup run last season almost accidentally, maybe he thinks we can get playoffs in much the same way as we were in a great position to push league wise last Christmas. Player wise we know we burned out and players bailed out, I still blame the awful January business for everything.

 

[Red-Robbo]

4 minutes ago, Olé said:

 

Instead it's 70% possession and only 2 or 3 decent chances from anywhere near goal (Pisano/Weimann shots & Watkins header). Everything else is just played in front of the opponents bemused defence, working the ball in nothing positions, then shooting or losing it 25 yards out.

 

I think you've forgotten Pato's one effort in the whole game - the curling 20 yarder that needed a decent save from Randolph.

Generally, I agree with your (and Spud's) points on this thread.

But I must add, I have seen many worse performances by City in recent seasons than yesterday. Games we had no shots on target. Games the opposition keeper could've nipped out for a fag.

I suppose it depends on expectations. I expected nothing, so when they did at least pick the pace up after a rubbish first half, I did think thank God we were finally giving it a go.

As I've said on an another thread, it's still very early days, but I don't think this season we have the players to beat Top 6 sides. We have to pick up points elsewhere.

[chinapig]

33 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Bournemouth broke the old rules to get promoted.

Cardiff and Huddersfield (the recent promotees) have good managers (Warnock a top manager at this level), and in Wagner’s case, tapped a very good market for cheap players.

The others weren’t hampered by FFP.

Back to Cardiff and Huddersfeld, an upgrade on manager could name a difference, but don’t bank on it at Bristol City.

Though Huddersfield lost something like £20m in their promotion season. A risk that paid off, rather like Brighton and their £100m plus debt or Bournemouth, with a Russian owner prepared to break FFP because he knew the sanction would be puny (and the source of whose wealth is something of a mystery).

My point being that there are so many factors that it's hard to make a direct comparison between any two given clubs.

[One BCFC]

23 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Do you think Lansdown decides new singings? He doesn't. In fact, he probably hasn't even heard of most of the players who've come in before the management team approaches him with a proposal to sign.

The team of Johnson and Ashton decide the squad. Any deficiencies in that department has to be laid at their door.

No but he certainly isn't willing to sign players of proven quality at this level and we have seen that time and time again. He wants money back from the club and is not prepared to make any risks.

[chinapig]

1 minute ago, One BCFC said:

No but he certainly isn't willing to sign players of proven quality at this level and we have seen that time and time again. He wants money back from the club and is not prepared to make any risks.

Unless you can show evidence that SL has taken money out of the club or is likely to I don't think your point stands. Whatever his faults he is not a Glazers or Kroenke type of owner.

What he certainly wants is to reduce the debt, which appears to have been the aim this summer. The plan seems to be to tread water while improving the finances. Promotion is at best a medium to long term aim.

[Red-Robbo]

3 minutes ago, One BCFC said:

No but he certainly isn't willing to sign players of proven quality at this level and we have seen that time and time again. He wants money back from the club and is not prepared to make any risks.

Lansdown is always talking about things being a "learning curve" and I agree with you in as much as what he'll learn this season is trying to run a Championship on "sustainable" budget equals a struggle to compete all season. Let's hope it sinks in.

The club will still still lose money however. Football clubs everywhere do. No one buys one thinking they are going to be up on the deal.

[Rich_s]

5 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

LJ states that we need to bring more players in his aftermatch press conference.

I agree with him but ;

It puts pressure on SL publicly which deflects responsibility for results from LJ and I'm sure this will anger the owner.

As Fielding said on the BCTV commentary all the players at the club,  bar him and Pack , are LJ's signings so what we have is down to him.

 

Maybe SL and the board are privately doubting whether LJ is the man to take us forward and deliver the clubs philosophy and hence the purse is pretty tightly shut.

To work within the financial constraints of the club and financial fair play and be successful would require in the minimum:

1. Excellent youth scouting and development with the aim of producing short, mid and long term players for the club. 

2: Excellent scouting both nationally and internationally 

3. First class coaching and a playing philosophy that’s adaptable and it’s aims understood by the players and players from point 2 would fit that philosophy and  enhance the playing squad immediately.

At present I believe we probably have more of point 1, a little of point 2 but are weakest in point 3. It seems to be that LJ will chop and change the starting 11 from week to week for what seems like bizarre reasons. Fully appreciate that there are injury problems at present but LJ has chopped and changed throughout his entire tenure. When results start slipping it seems like we have no idea how to correct it.

LJ seems a top chap who loves the club and is doing his best. I hope he succeeds and I’m not calling for his head and appreciate his hands may be tied but other than Smith, Fielding an Pack this is LJs squad so excuses and time are running out. Appreciate selling your best players and replacing them with players who IMHO are of not the equivalent quality is hard but I’m starting to believe that the injury issues are in part a smokescreen that’s masking issues on the pitch issues. I think SL and MA have in the main been supportive but perhaps they have doubts. If the purse remains shut for LJ public comment on loans then this may be one of the first indications that the stopwatch is counting down on LJ. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

38 minutes ago, spudski said:

Each Club you mentioned made decisions, all different, and made it. Some make the same decisions and don't. There are far more Clubs that don't than do. It's easy to see these Clubs and ask why not us...and it is hard to take, after all we've been through. However for many years we've been a big club in a small pond, with very very poor infrastructure.

As a professional Club that's been run over a hundred years, it's only in the last few years that we have run anything like a Professional Club should infrastructure wise.

Thrown money at short term success...with little or no decent manager, coaching, no direction and very poor scouting structure.

All those Clubs you mentioned put in far  better infrastructure sooner than us.

We are still playing catch up in many ways...and it's coming back to haunt us, as the pond we are in has so many bigger richer fish every year.

Then take into consideration what Davefevs say's above and you'll get a fair considered answer

Great post.

Comparing to several ofthese

44 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Bournemouth broke the old rules to get promoted.

Cardiff and Huddersfield (the recent promotees) have good managers (Warnock a top manager at this level), and in Wagner’s case, tapped a very good market for cheap players.

The others weren’t hampered by FFP.

Back to Cardiff and Huddersfeld, an upgrade on manager could name a difference, but don’t bank on it at Bristol City.

That's the thing.

There's so many variables in all these models and the times they occurred at...making comparisons is interesting and maybe we could take elements of each, but ultimately it's pointless.

Would add Watford and Swansea too...Swansea went down their route from Jackett in mid 2000's, replaced by Martinez who really kick started it- via Sousa who didn't quite have it but improved them defensively and tactically culminating in Rodgers who took them over the line. However each manager left their mark I'd say, overarching philosophy etc. European model almost.

Watford another interesting case study. Hard to replicate owing to their owners and their links at these times predominantly to Udinese but also with Granada...fairly unique and niche model both for Swansea and Watford.

[petehinton]

Thing that really ******* grates me, all the windows we’ve/he’s had over the last 3(?) years, all the money that’s been spent. 

We started yesterday with a RB at LB. A predominantly LB at CB. Another goalkeeper here just on a 1 year deal. A winger up front. 

How the **** are we still getting this so fundementally wrong, before a ball is even kicked?

[chinapig]

1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said:

Lansdown is always talking about things being a "learning curve" and I agree with you in as much as what he'll learn this season is trying to run a Championship on "sustainable" budget equals a struggle to compete all season. Let's hope it sinks in.

The club will still still lose money however. Football clubs everywhere do. No one buys one thinking they are going to be up on the deal.

Unless you can engineer a leveraged buyout, load the debt onto the club then take millions for yourself each year. 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

9 minutes ago, Olé said:

Agree with everything you've said in the two long posts I've read (so far) about the model the club is employing and the constraints that it places us under, and I agree that making this model sustainable, will be the true measure of becoming "established" in the Championship.

However on a small point of order, when you talk about bringing in and developing players that give us a chance of establishing ourselves at this level, it is worth noting that EIGHT of our League One regulars (excluding Bobby), currently play at other clubs at our level or above.

Okay 2 of those were big and inevitable sales this summer, and I'm not suggesting all 8 are on upward career trajectories, but it rather implies that we've had the resources since day one to establish ourselves at this level, utilising and augmenting them effectively is the real issue.

By that measure we've spent a lot of time and money over 3 years without moving much beyond what we already had. Of course you and I both know the truth is slightly more nuanced, in that we've been constantly adapting the personnel to reflect the football that LJ wants to play.

And that's the frustration for me. I have ZERO problems with the model you describe. It's what I expect - I do not expect the Prem. I'm happy to blood youngsters, even to tread water. But I want to see us use what we have effectively. Keep it simple, get players doing things they can do.

As @ScottishRed said "yesterday was far from enjoyable" and he's so right. It's the football not the result.  We have played promotion favourites like Boro many times over the years and whether or not we got a result, we always "had a go" at teams, with pace, balls into the box. 

Instead it's 70% possession and only 2 or 3 decent chances from anywhere near goal (Pisano/Weimann shots & Watkins header). Everything else is just played in front of the opponents bemused defence, working the ball in nothing positions, then shooting or losing it 25 yards out.

You've told me many times on here over the past few years that we were seeing the painful effect of LJ trying to "break in" his tactics to players who were often not able to execute them. I now don't doubt that. I take my hat off to you for recognising it early. To this day it continues.

But at what point do we say enough is enough with the brute force conviction that his vision for our tactics is right and players are all wrong. His ideas worked when we had a player of Bobby's ilk running down defenders, but that sort of fitness and quality is very rare at this level. 

What we're seeing now is no press and a very slowed down version of the pass and move exchanges out of midfield, so as to be utterly superficial when played entirely in front of the opposition box. As a training exercise I don't doubt there are plus points for LJ but not results.

So on "establishing ourselves": we've had different Championship personnel for four years now, we haven't found a way to use them effectively. Bottom line. The resources were there. And for six months now we've doubled down on and recruited for a Plan A that is ineffective.

Whether you take the view it's a hand he has been dealt, or a situation of his own making, LJ is now "all in". His players. His tactics. His outcomes. I admire his unwavering conviction in his tactics but find the output pretty depressing, and that has nothing to do with sustainability!

I would like to bring up a 2nd point of order with @spudski and his posts, he seems to try to deflect blame on to the fans and their so called expectations and their lack of knowledge of how modern football operates, which I do not agree with.

The fans expectations are led by the uttering's from their owner, manager and people like Ashton and those uttering's are of ambition and challenging for promotion but their actions since January in no way reflect that, I believe that the fans would be far more tolerant if they were told the truth and not left in the dark and openly bullshitted to.

For instance why not fully address why January was such an unmitigated disaster, were we beaten up by the market, lack of funds, lack of homework, complacency or lack of ambition?

I believe that even his biggest fans would be looking at LJ's post match interview with a lot of concern, he certainly had the look of a manager who feels not only let down by his players but also by his owner and the smiling Mr Ashton.

Our squad was proved to be pretty thin last season and lacking in quality on the bench, resulting in the continual playing of players out of position and this season the recruitment has in no way matched the outgoings especially in terms of quality, 3 games in and we are already playing players out of position and having a mediocre bench as was proved by the quality of substitutes yesterday.

Let's be honest in the same way that January seemed to be the realisation for Flint, Reid and Bryan that we were a club going nowhere, I suspect as this season unfolds the same realisation will dawn on several of our better players.

Don't blame the fans for expectation, blame the club for lack of honesty and bullshit.

[maxjak]

3 hours ago, RedM said:

Also the message to any incoming players must be very clear when they see three of our best sold. I was looking around yesterday and deciding who is going to be the next ones to be sold as that’s how we look to be going.

No doubt incoming players were sold our ambition plans but in reality what do they see. During the Preston match last night it was mentioned how well their owner works and how he has successfully fended off bids for almost all of his players. Yes I realise the contract situation with Bobby and Joe, but how did it get to that, even with Bobby being a one season wonder.

Surely the message to young incoming players, when they see 3 of our best sold is..............If I play to the best of my ability, work hard and respond to the coaching made available, then I too will get noticed and  possibly earn a lucrative move to the Premiership?  That motivation will benefit the team and keep our finances buoyant.   Seems like a Win, Win to me?

[Red-Robbo]

Just now, chinapig said:

Unless you can engineer a leveraged buyout, load the debt onto the club then take millions for yourself each year. 

Well, I did think there are those just out to evict the club they've bought and build a shopping mall on the ground, but you get my general point....

[Esmond Million's Bung]

32 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I think you've forgotten Pato's one effort in the whole game - the curling 20 yarder that needed a decent save from Randolph.

Generally, I agree with your (and Spud's) points on this thread.

But I must add, I have seen many worse performances by City in recent seasons than yesterday. Games we had no shots on target. Games the opposition keeper could've nipped out for a fag.

I suppose it depends on expectations. I expected nothing, so when they did at least pick the pace up after a rubbish first half, I did think thank God we were finally giving it a go.

As I've said on an another thread, it's still very early days, but I don't think this season we have the players to beat Top 6 sides. We have to pick up points elsewhere.

I think what you need to bear in mind is Ole like myself are talking about clear cut chances, which according to the stats we had zero yesterday and only one in 3 league games.

Paterson's shot was speculative it was not a chance, pretty much like the two that hit the woodwork and given that the norm for Paterson is usually hitting the first defender, a weak pass back type shot or wildly over the bar, the fact that he hit the target was a great plus, of course on another day one or even two of those might have gone in but I don't see any of them as chances just merely speculative attempts.

That is why you often hear the managers rueful "we were undone by a great strike, sometimes they go in but mostly they do not".

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

14 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Thing that really ******* grates me, all the windows we’ve/he’s had over the last 3(?) years, all the money that’s been spent. 

We started yesterday with a RB at LB. A predominantly LB at CB. Another goalkeeper here just on a 1 year deal. A winger up front. 

How the **** are we still getting this so fundementally wrong, before a ball is even kicked?

The centre back injury issues will do that as far as a Kelly at CB goes. You can't plan or legislate for that really...possible exception maybe the decision to loan out Vyner- whose to say he'd have done any better however?

This isn't a defence of LJ by the way, I think his tactics are suspect.

[Red-Robbo]

Just now, Esmond Million's Bung said:

I think what you need to bear in mind is Ole like myself are talking about clear cut chances, which according to the stats we had zero yesterday and only one in 3 league games.

Paterson's shot was speculative it was not a chance, pretty much like the two that hit the woodwork and given that the norm for Paterson is usually hitting the first defender, a weak pass back type shot or wildly over the bar, the fact that he hit the target was a great plus, of course on another day one or even two of those might have gone in but I don't see any of them as chances just merely speculative attempts.

 

it was actuaslly a shot that could well have gone in, and came at the end of a well-worked move. Had it gone in, the whole game could've changed.

I thought in the second half, we were pretty positive and were camped in the final third for much of the time. We just don't have anyone with the supreme killer instinct of a Tammy or a Kodja. We don't even have the big guys to muscle their way through.

If we'd played the whole game like the first 45, then I'd say we might as well be considering our travel arrangements to League 1 grounds now.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The centre back injury issues will do that as far as a Kelly at CB goes. You can't plan or legislate for that really...possible exception maybe the decision to loan out Vyner- whose to say he'd have done any better however?

Sorry he knew Wright and Hegeler were both injured before the season started, he also knew that Djuric was leaving and nothing was done reference cover.

[spudski]

11 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

I would like to bring up a 2nd point of order with @spudski and his posts, he seems to try to deflect blame on to the fans and their so called expectations and their lack of knowledge of how modern football operates, which I do not agree with.

The fans expectations are led by the uttering's from their owner, manager and people like Ashton and those uttering's are of ambition and challenging for promotion but their actions since January in no way reflect that, I believe that the fans would be far more tolerant if they were told the truth and not left in the dark and openly bullshitted to.

For instance why not fully address why January was such an unmitigated disaster, were we beaten up by the market, lack of funds, lack of homework, complacency or lack of ambition?

I believe that even his biggest fans would be looking at LJ's post match interview with a lot of concern, he certainly had the look of a manager who feels not only let down by his players but also by his owner and the smiling Mr Ashton.

Our squad was proved to be pretty thin last season and lacking in quality on the bench, resulting in the continual playing of players out of position and this season the recruitment has in no way matched the outgoings especially in terms of quality, 3 games in and we are already playing players out of position and having a mediocre bench as was proved by the quality of substitutes yesterday.

Let's be honest in the same way that January seemed to be the realisation for Flint, Reid and Bryan that we were a club going nowhere, I suspect as this season unfolds the same realisation will dawn on several of our better players.

Don't blame the fans for expectation, blame the club for lack of honesty and bullshit.

Not for the first time you've misunderstood the intent of my posts EMB...when everyone else and his dog seems to understand them.

I'm not blaming fans for anything.

I've suggested they change their expectations for a far less agonising experience. Everyone else seems to understand that intent.

I think the majority of fans are intelligent enough to work out that what is said by the owner, manager and board are said with good intentions, but you'd be stupid to think everything they say is plausible, and would read between the lines and also look at every other Club in the football pyramid trying to do the same thing as us.

You'd come to the conclusion that there is truth in some of it, corporate bullshit in some of it, things said to appease and a lot of things change in football from week to week that effect what happens.

After following the Club all these years, you still believe everything that's said? Surely you should have learnt by now...

Maybe if you listened and read posts how they are written, instead of thinking there is some wrongful intent behind them, you would understand better.

As for what you've written in your post above, those subjects have been discussed numerous times on here, some get it, some don't. 

The joys of a forum eh?

[maxjak]

2 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

If you cannot coach the defensive howlers out of the team, or if you concede a goal because you’re playing a right back at left back, then it doesn’t matter how much money you spend. We could have Ronaldo and Messi playing for us and it wouldn’t matter. We’d probably see them as the ideal CB partnership at the moment. 

My point is that Boro’s wealth is irrelevant. Coaching starts with the coach. 

So a clubs wealth is irrelevant?.........and if we had Messi and Ronaldo in our team it wouldn't matter?  Ok, I think I might have to ponder on that for a while.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said:

it was actuaslly a shot that could well have gone in, and came at the end of a well-worked move. Had it gone in, the whole game could've changed.

I thought in the second half, we were pretty positive and were camped in the final third for much of the time. We just don't have anyone with the supreme killer instinct of a Tammy or a Kodja. We don't even have the big guys to muscle their way through.

If we'd played the whole game like the first 45, then I'd say we might as well be considering our travel arrangements to League 1 grounds now.

Your first sentence is obviously correct, if you substitute could for should then you have a clear cut chance, anything else is speculative.

Even Tammy or Kodjia would struggle because the the delivery is piss poor, we are pretty much relying on long range stuff, because we are unable to create clear cut chances.

As long as the likes of Paterson, Watkins, Brownhill and later ODowda and Taylor are aimlessly running across the edge of the opponents 18 yard box in one direction or another and as long as the opponents have numbers it is easy and predictable to defend against and that is all we have in the creative locker at the moment.

I thought we played well throughout, 2 mistakes and the running out of ideas in around the opponents box with the in ability to create clear cut chances did for us and have done for us in the past nearly 30 games.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

31 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Sorry he knew Wright and Hegeler were both injured before the season started, he also knew that Djuric was leaving and nothing was done reference cover.

I think we need another striker for sure. Eisa probably isn't yet ready, Diedhiou isn't back until Blackburn at home is it? Reid and Djuric gone...am I missing anyone? Obviously Weimann is decent but at this stage, who else...?

Honestly was thinking we would sign another striker on loan fairly imminently after deadline day. Also thought we might loan Bettinelli but that was all paper talk it seems.

Wonder if LJ was complacent in terms of injuries- because last season was bad indeed for it and an air of 'Well, it can't possibly happen again' may have crept it.

As 4 players who can play CB, a winger and number one goalie all injured either pre or early season...it's fairly unbelievable in some respects but then again maybe the tactics and training contribute. Oh yeah and Diedhiou and the phantom spitting claims...still far from convinced he spat at an opponent.

[Mendip City]

3 hours ago, One BCFC said:

I don't genuinely believe LJ has full control of the transfers. I don't see what would change if he gets sacked, we'd just appoint another yes man. 

Might well be true but... He says that he has final say in all of them. At the least he’s culpable by just going along with the “model” “project” “pillars” 

[Mendip City]

1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

IF Lee is sacked - and I don't think it's even worth entertaining the possibility before Christmas - I'd like to see him take Mark Ashton with him.

Otherwise, as you say, the new manager will find himself in a similar position.

Agree with this. If LJ is sacked, the model has to change. It’ll be the model that’s failed. 

But if the model is retained then it can’t be done with little experience. Top quality head coach and genuinely experienced director of football / scout / ceo.   

[Ivorguy]

38 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Unless you can show evidence that SL has taken money out of the club or is likely to I don't think your point stands. Whatever his faults he is not a Glazers or Kroenke type of owner.

What he certainly wants is to reduce the debt, which appears to have been the aim this summer. The plan seems to be to tread water while improving the finances. Promotion is at best a medium to long term aim.

And whose fault is it that the finances have got in such a mess ?

[chinapig]

Just now, Ivorguy said:

And whose fault is it that the finances have got in such a mess ?

I have not suggested otherwise, though much of that was down to him doing exactly what some fans are demanding now i.e. spend money regardless.

Up to a point he has swung from one extreme to another. He needs, I think, to be more open about what the short to medium term aim actually is. Many fans might not like what he had to say but at least there would be clarity.

[Red-Robbo]

10 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Your first sentence is obviously correct, if you substitute could for should then you have a clear cut chance, anything else is speculative.

Even Tammy or Kodjia would struggle because the the delivery is piss poor, we are pretty much relying on long range stuff, because we are unable to create clear cut chances.

As long as the likes of Paterson, Watkins, Brownhill and later ODowda and Taylor are aimlessly running across the edge of the opponents 18 yard box in one direction or another and as long as the opponents have numbers it is easy and predictable to defend against and that is all we have in the creative locker at the moment.

I thought we played well throughout, 2 mistakes and the running out of ideas in around the opponents box with the in ability to create clear cut chances did for us and have done for us in the past nearly 30 games.

 

By that definition then, you have to say neither side created clear cut chances.

Goals from a defensive mistake and a free kick from distance that should have been easily defended are not down to some outstanding play.

When you think about it, that vast majority of goals scored by all clubs are speculative - and usuallh require errors to have been made by the opponent. 

On a related point, ven when Famara returns, I think the only time we'll do well this season is when we realise that we have some of the fastest players in the dovision - and utilise that speed.

[swanker]

4 hours ago, spudski said:

 

At some point the pressure will become too much and either he will leave, or get sacked, and the next coach manager will be an inexperienced coach or manager at this level, who see's it as a big opportunity and will say anything to get the job.

 

 

Totally agree with all you said. The way we’re going about our business as a club seems to have backfired at the moment. I think we’re in a relegation battle already. 

Interesting point about who will replace Johnson if he goes. Some on here were suggesting Jamie McAlister the other day? 

Wow!!!!!!

[BobBobSuperBob]

Just now, chinapig said:

I have not suggested otherwise, though much of that was down to him doing exactly what some fans are demanding now i.e. spend money regardless.

Up to a point he has swung from one extreme to another. He needs, I think, to be more open about what the short to medium term aim actually is. Many fans might not like what he had to say but at least there would be clarity.

Fans weren’t demanding we overpaid players agents and fees and became a bit of a joke in the football world as a soft touch 

If (and I emphasise if) the story of Matty Taylor being on £16k a week are in any way true we clearly have learnt a limited lesson 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

5 minutes ago, spudski said:

Not for the first time you've misunderstood the intent of my posts EMB...when everyone else and his dog seems to understand them.

I'm not blaming fans for anything.

I've suggested they change their expectations for a far less agonising experience. Everyone else seems to understand that intent.

I think the majority of fans are intelligent enough to work out that what is said by the owner, manager and board are said with good intentions, but you'd be stupid to think everything they say is plausible, and would read between the lines and also look at every other Club in the football pyramid trying to do the same thing as us.

You'd come to the conclusion that there is truth in some of it, corporate bullshit in some of it, things said to appease and a lot of things change in football from week to week that effect what happens.

After following the Club all these years, you still believe everything that's said? Surely you should have learnt by now...

Maybe if you listened and read posts how they are written, instead of thinking there is some wrongful intent behind them, you would understand better.

As for what you've written in your post above, those subjects have been discussed numerous times on here, some get it, some don't. 

The joys of a forum eh?

And not for the first time you misrepresent what I have said and to add an early post script, I listen and read posts and don't need your arrogant remarks, I cannot see anything in my post that does that to you, it just questions your view, I seem to remember your plea for discussion, that is what I have done.

I believe very little of what anybody says about anything, especially in the absence of evidence and you for one should know I have taken with a pinch of salt the so called improvements on the field, however they are spun.

My problem is lack of honesty and clarity and to be honest lack of professionalism with some of our recruitment, we are either drip fed or starved of information, no explanations of when things go wrong, but huge fanfares when something goes right or when the latest BCFC 'give us yer ******* money' scheme is launched we are inundated with information.

I believe nearly 3 years into LJ's tenure the fans are entitled more information about where the club actually stands on it's ambitions, the fans have done their bit by spending millions on increasing our average crowd and season ticket sales and bought into spending millions in the food and drink outlets and the commercial side, I don't think that a little more honesty is too much to ask.

 

[Major Isewater]

3 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

If you cannot coach the defensive howlers out of the team, or if you concede a goal because you’re playing a right back at left back, then it doesn’t matter how much money you spend. We could have Ronaldo and Messi playing for us and it wouldn’t matter. We’d probably see them as the ideal CB partnership at the moment. 

My point is that Boro’s wealth is irrelevant. Coaching starts with the coach. 

I believe many managers / coaches at this club think we are better than what we really are being a big club in the lower divisions gave us a sort of superiority complex than meant that we were expected to win and at the same time play attractive football.

Coaches of clubs like Preston know that they have to battle to even exist let alone win football matches . The word is pragmatism.

We live in some sort of fantasy land where a group of nice young talented players are going to win matches because other teams recognise the lovely football we play and will give us the time and space to show off our skills.