Mr Popodopolous Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: Bob, we understand how it works, we just don’t have the numbers to do the math. Even the published accounts don’t give us individual player values and wages, so we can only do the overall transfer profit / loss. Amortisation includes fees and wages over the contract. I tend to use- and people may query the source which is absolutely fine, but I tend to use as a starting point, Transfermarkt. Tends to show the length of contract, then I dig in and have a crack at finding out if players extended, the new re-amortised rate etc. The problem is wages- we can only guess that, it's purely changes based on amortisation I try to work out and some best guesses (and that's all they can be) for wages. Amortisation though, I believe that length of contract can be ascertained through that site, Transfermarkt. When it comes to extensions and re-amortising, that takes some calculating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: If you want I can email you my xls....DM me if so. It’ll show you the headline figures from each club’s accounts....save you a bit of time. The problem we have is not having any detail on amortisation, because we don’t know terms of contracts. Thanks Dave. That might be useful- I'll have a proper crack at City for 17/18 soon (I was mainly looking at competitors when I assumed we might take advantage in FFP terms). I'll send you key parts of mine, headline figures etc. Been using varied sources for clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leveller Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 14 hours ago, ScottishRed said: So, serious question, can you explain how the current model is going to get us there? Because I simply cannot see how it is possibly going to do so. They will be hoping to buy excellent players on the cheap by exceptional scouting. Can I see it happening? No, not at the moment, but I assume that is the model. My point is simply that to claim, as some have (and you hinted), that the management want to AVOID promotion makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRed Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 16 minutes ago, Leveller said: They will be hoping to buy excellent players on the cheap by exceptional scouting. Can I see it happening? No, not at the moment, but I assume that is the model. My point is simply that to claim, as some have (and you hinted), that the management want to AVOID promotion makes no sense. I wouldn't necessarily say they want to 'avoid' it although the lack of activity in January 'could' suggest otherwise. My point is , and this is supporting your post, I cannot see how we will be able to pick up excellent players relatively cheaply firstly and secondly I really doubt we have the coaching capabilities to increase, significantly, their value. And even if we did and I am totally wrong on the points above - the plan is then to sell them and start again! I can see the business model very clearly, but I can't see the sporting success model. For example, on what I have seen so far, Kelly looks a real prospect, he could be outstanding, he might play a lot of games this year and attract a fair bit of attention. Should that happen we may well get some decent offers next summer - if that is the case my understanding of the plan is we will take one of those offers if it meets our valuation. One example but the principal remains, how are we going to build up towards promotion with that model given every year this league is getting stronger. When you consider that Blackburn are apparently bidding £8m for a lad at Forest who does not start for them, what does that tell you? The comments made by SL before the Forest game do not stack up and I don't for one minute think he does not know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 On 20/08/2018 at 08:14, INCRED said: Thank our lucky stars we are not QPR, Sheffield Weds, Reading, Brum and a few others We are not a top 6 club in terms of finance but with our squad (when fit) are more than capable of competing with the rest and that’s where we are at the moment Some on this forum are deluded if they think we are good enough at the moment to be other than a mid table team. 3 games in and we have lost one league game and but for a stupid defensive error and hitting the woodwork we competed with a club who fit the top 6 profile. A bit of perspective needs to be applied To be fair we're not even close to being a mid-table team from what we've seen so far. Last season we were on fire up until January and still finished mid-table, now we've got a largely different team, less quality in our starting 11 and we can't even get them all on the pitch at the same time. If anything we're more likely to be a relegation battling team than we are a mid-table team. The league is stronger, we're arguably weaker and our manager/coach still doesn't seem to have a clear strategy. We've passed the point of "He needs his players", he's got them, there are very few players here now that isn't an LJ player and we don't look any better for it. Contrary to what people may think after saying that I do like LJ, I think he's a coach who wants us to play nice football and he's a likeable guy but with so many people talking about progression season to season I'm wondering what they'll have to say when we finish below 11th, at that point what positives does he have left to reinforce that he's the man for the job? Better squad... arguably, but a weaker starting 11. Higher league position? Not if we finish below 11th which looks likely. Better tactics? Arguably his worst asset, his coaching is good when it comes to the style but our defending has been awful for years and the in-game decisions and tactics are all part of a single gameplan that almost every manager knows we use at this point. I personally think come the end of the year if we've been in a relegation battle it's time for the higher positions to accept that we many need an experienced manager and that they may have to actually put some trust in a manager who has another vision of how to move us forward rather than the man they know they control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NcnsBcfc Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 53 minutes ago, Spike said: To be fair we're not even close to being a mid-table team from what we've seen so far. Last season we were on fire up until January and still finished mid-table, now we've got a largely different team, less quality in our starting 11 and we can't even get them all on the pitch at the same time. If anything we're more likely to be a relegation battling team than we are a mid-table team. The league is stronger, we're arguably weaker and our manager/coach still doesn't seem to have a clear strategy. We've passed the point of "He needs his players", he's got them, there are very few players here now that isn't an LJ player and we don't look any better for it. Contrary to what people may think after saying that I do like LJ, I think he's a coach who wants us to play nice football and he's a likeable guy but with so many people talking about progression season to season I'm wondering what they'll have to say when we finish below 11th, at that point what positives does he have left to reinforce that he's the man for the job? Better squad... arguably, but a weaker starting 11. Higher league position? Not if we finish below 11th which looks likely. Better tactics? Arguably his worst asset, his coaching is good when it comes to the style but our defending has been awful for years and the in-game decisions and tactics are all part of a single gameplan that almost every manager knows we use at this point. I personally think come the end of the year if we've been in a relegation battle it's time for the higher positions to accept that we many need an experienced manager and that they may have to actually put some trust in a manager who has another vision of how to move us forward rather than the man they know they control. Can't disagree with any of that Spike. I think SL and MA need to look beyond the " this is a man we can work with, and manipulate". Ultimately any new guy coming in, maybe more difficult to deal with. Might have an massive ego, and make more demands than LJ; but I think 4 wins in 28 shows that the current formula just isn't working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee0 Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 On 20/08/2018 at 13:11, RumRed said: No it was inevitable, that's what was tragic. And you still went and will continue to do so. Your posts suggest you hate it..... do you go just to try and spoil it for others ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 On 20/08/2018 at 13:33, Fjmcity said: I really dont understand the divine right a large majority of this football club seem to think we have to win every single game I am trying to put my finger on when it manifested.. We compete in the championship and we will continue to work towards continual improvement as demonstrated year on year. Some people would enjoy the ride a lot more if they remembered a time when this feeling of divine right wasn't rife through the fan base, the team would get a lot more support and ironically we would probably do better on the pitch. The second irony being that the majority of these people with short fuses on performance and expectations at the moment are no doubt ones who 'hark back to the glory days' of football when you could stand/swear/get in a fight and hate everything about modern football, however the short-termism of football these days, expecting a new manager to come in and work magic and win every game seems to of been one property of modern football they have well and truly embraced Johnson supports are called deluded, but often irony is missed by the stupid. ' every single game ' !! One would be nice . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 23 hours ago, Robbored said: The garden has yet to reach maturity but is growing..... Just need to pull out the bloody weeds . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTonyTony Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 19 hours ago, KeepUpLino said: I can’t stand this get behind the boys, don’t criticise bollocks... Seriously do you honestly believe this is the way it works? The way it works ? You mean “supporting” your own team by bitching, sniping, criticising everything both on and off the pitch. Booing players after 3 games, slagging off the Manager, the owner, the business behind it..anything else ? Why not bitch about the tea ladies or maybe the shiny toilet paper in the s**thouses that chafe your piles..... No football team is perfect but I’d rather use my energy in a positive way to try and push the team forward. Why spend 30 odd quid to go and see City just to sit here and bloody moan. What’s the point ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySanchez Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 Moaning about Lansdown is crazy. New stadium. He has wiped off millions in debt. BUT there is a thing called FFP. Some people need to read about it and even look at the mess QPR and other clubs are in, millions in debt; Transfer embargo's. Let's get at least 10 games into the season before we start this 'merry go round' all over again about LJ and SL. Some crazy folks on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 18 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said: The way it works ? You mean “supporting” your own team by bitching, sniping, criticising everything both on and off the pitch. Booing players after 3 games, slagging off the Manager, the owner, the business behind it..anything else ? Why not bitch about the tea ladies or maybe the shiny toilet paper in the s**thouses that chafe your piles..... No football team is perfect but I’d rather use my energy in a positive way to try and push the team forward. Why spend 30 odd quid to go and see City just to sit here and bloody moan. What’s the point ? Can see both sides of this argument. The cost maybe a reason why people are expecting more and expecting it now. As in "We've paid our money, so done our bit- now you on the pitch, dugout etc- you deliver, do your bit." In the past it certainly didn't cost so much. Yet I agree with the ideals of a noisy ground, pushing the team on too. It clearly boosts the side- and it's just good to be in a noisy, partisan, atmospheric ground in any case IMO. Foot in both camps basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 The performance did not warrant applause. I didn't boo either. Just felt totally deflated and concerned about the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedJim Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 On 20/08/2018 at 12:18, Red Rag said: I have never booed our team and never will but you point about why am i here is at the front of my mind at the moment. During and after both forest and boro i have asked myself this question. I have had season ticket for as long as i can remember but never felt quite the way i do now. A few more mind numbing performances like that and i fear i will be off for good. Its not just me, you can hear a pin drop in the stadium a tell tell indication that all is not well. If the aim of the game is to bore people rigid then we are in the champions league final. It might be fairly crap at the moment but you only have to think back to 2013 under O'Driscoll in League One. I was certainly more disillusioned then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NcnsBcfc Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 On 20/08/2018 at 08:14, INCRED said: Thank our lucky stars we are not QPR, Sheffield Weds, Reading, Brum and a few others We are not a top 6 club in terms of finance but with our squad (when fit) are more than capable of competing with the rest and that’s where we are at the moment Some on this forum are deluded if they think we are good enough at the moment to be other than a mid table team. 3 games in and we have lost one league game and but for a stupid defensive error and hitting the woodwork we competed with a club who fit the top 6 profile. A bit of perspective needs to be applied If we are to use perspective, rather than react on an instinctive level, then we need to look at how the last 5 months of last season went allied to the start of this. I think at the moment, perspective is the wrong way to look at things. Maybe optimism rather than pessimism. Either way, if we were to put our stats for 2018 In comparison to the other 72 teams in the EFL, i guarantee we would be in the bottom 10; if not the bottom 5 nationally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 On 20/08/2018 at 09:47, TonyTonyTony said: I remember Joe Bryan’s comments - saying that the crowds booing and negativity (particularly from the Dolman) really got the players down and doesn’t help. If you feel the need to boo, after 3 league games, you perhaps need to think why you are even at the game. Why on earth would you boo you own team ? Never understood that. 28 games..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldlandReddies Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 Agree. Three difficult games against teams that are currently undefeated and two of which are expected to go up this season. Tonight is our easiest fixture thus far and one which we should take all three points. I believe we will and then we can look at our start a little differently. Lose and I reckon we will be in for a long, hard season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, OldlandReddies said: Agree. Three difficult games against teams that are currently undefeated and two of which are expected to go up this season. Tonight is our easiest fixture thus far and one which we should take all three points. I believe we will and then we can look at our start a little differently. Lose and I reckon we will be in for a long, hard season. Hmm- admire your optimism. Our record at Loftus Road though, and the fact neither side are in great form or confidence- to say nothing of no away win since December 8th, plus QPR a rather strong home record last season...we'll see. Draw but hope I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 On 20/08/2018 at 08:02, daored said: Good post , absolutely collectively we are stronger. The problem with the championship is it’s becoming more and more premier league 2 with the distribution of funds to a select few. I’m not sure we can or want to compete financially. However, the frustration is you see a club like Leeds, virtually the same starting 11 as last season, but they are disciplined, well drilled with good coaching True enough but they do have one of the most respected coaches in the world. Mind you some of his recent teams have had a tendency to burn out because he works them incredibly hard. And he himself is inclined to go off on one at times and simply walk away. Love the guy to bits though so I hope it works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 Just now, chinapig said: True enough but they do have one of the most respected coaches in the world. Mind you some of his recent teams have had a tendency to burn out because he works them incredibly hard. And he himself is inclined to go off on one at times and simply walk away. Love the guy to bits though so I hope it works out. Is an interesting indicator about media coverage of football in the country in a way. Bielsa to Leeds is a huge appointment...Rowett and Lampard at Stoke and Derby get the big hype however, especially Lampard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 45 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Is an interesting indicator about media coverage of football in the country in a way. Bielsa to Leeds is a huge appointment...Rowett and Lampard at Stoke and Derby get the big hype however, especially Lampard. Reportedly before his job interview Bielsa watched every Championship game from last season and could reel off what formation every team played in every game. On the other hand the English media have heard of Lampard cos he's, like, famous and on telly and stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 43 minutes ago, chinapig said: Reportedly before his job interview Bielsa watched every Championship game from last season and could reel off what formation every team played in every game. On the other hand the English media have heard of Lampard cos he's, like, famous and on telly and stuff. Wow! I knew the guy had done his homework but Lampard yep you nailed it. Also Rowett though. Interesting- not saying he hasn't done decent in his career to date However, ironically he'd probably have been better with Stoke when they sacked Hughes. Equation might equal to some media 'Good Job Plus lots of recent PL players equals promotion favourites'. However Stoke will have to force the issue most weeks, whereas his Birmingham side especially and to an extent his Derby side were reactive. Reactive football applied to a squad expected to/perhaps hoping to take the issue most weeks? A bad fit, at least for a while. It's why I take decent chunks of media in football in UK with a pinch of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bs20ciderarmy Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 On 20/08/2018 at 11:06, cidered abroad said: Yes, I'm for real. Sixty eight years I've supported City. I've smelt relegation seven times in those years and at this moment, I can smell another one coming unless some drastic changes are made. Boro cruised through that match. Never in trouble and even if we'd nicked a goal, they would almost certainly have scored a third. What’s your thoughts now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicki's soulmate Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 35 minutes ago, bs20ciderarmy said: What’s your thoughts now? People on here will always find something to whine about, win , lose or draw, they're not happy unless they're miserable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 2 hours ago, bs20ciderarmy said: What’s your thoughts now? I dunno about cidered abroad, but I can smell midtable this Monday lunchtime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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