Johnson needs experience behind him

[Ciderandred]

I want him to do well but with two unexperienced assistants behind him as well its no wonder we had no fresh ideas tactics come January/February.
 

Either Johnson needed/needs a experienced number 2 or director of football type or  Johnson goes other 2 stay and we get experienced manager in.

All 3 have no experience. You only gotta look at games like Sunderland last season 3-0 at home against the second worst team in the league. Chris Coleman EXPERIENCED completely changed the team. He knew our weaknesses. Bang. A truly awful team come back to 3-3 away from home. An experienced manager would of counter acted Coleman ideas.

 

[Major Isewater]

43 minutes ago, Ciderandred said:

I want him to do well but with two unexperienced assistants behind him as well its no wonder we had no fresh ideas tactics come January/February.
 

Either Johnson needed/needs a experienced number 2 or director of football type or  Johnson goes other 2 stay and we get experienced manager in.

All 3 have no experience. You only gotta look at games like Sunderland last season 3-0 at home against the second worst team in the league. Chris Coleman EXPERIENCED completely changed the team. He knew our weaknesses. Bang. A truly awful team come back to 3-3 away from home. An experienced manager would of counter acted Coleman ideas.

 

SL is probably on the phone to Gary Johnson as I type. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

53 minutes ago, Ciderandred said:

I want him to do well but with two unexperienced assistants behind him as well its no wonder we had no fresh ideas tactics come January/February.
 

Either Johnson needed/needs a experienced number 2 or director of football type or  Johnson goes other 2 stay and we get experienced manager in.

All 3 have no experience. You only gotta look at games like Sunderland last season 3-0 at home against the second worst team in the league. Chris Coleman EXPERIENCED completely changed the team. He knew our weaknesses. Bang. A truly awful team come back to 3-3 away from home. An experienced manager would of counter acted Coleman ideas.

 

He's inexperienced but he's perhaps just tactically limited too- which sounds odd given he's been immersed in football and how he's this modern manager with great ideas...

[Dynamite Red]

He has been in management over 5 years, 280+ games, played for 400+ games surrounded by a family in the football industry. He has had plenty of experience. 

[LondonBristolian]

58 minutes ago, Ciderandred said:

I want him to do well but with two unexperienced assistants behind him as well its no wonder we had no fresh ideas tactics come January/February.
 

Either Johnson needed/needs a experienced number 2 or director of football type or  Johnson goes other 2 stay and we get experienced manager in.

All 3 have no experience. You only gotta look at games like Sunderland last season 3-0 at home against the second worst team in the league. Chris Coleman EXPERIENCED completely changed the team. He knew our weaknesses. Bang. A truly awful team come back to 3-3 away from home. An experienced manager would of counter acted Coleman ideas.

 

I'm not sure Chris Coleman is the best example given he did little to change Sunderland's fortunes and, to be honest, I think we were far more culpable than Sunderland were in terms of why  they came back.

I've said this before but the best clubs in Europe, when appointing a Director of Football, appoint someone who wants to be a Director of Football and is skilled at doing that. There is no more surefire recipe for disaster than appointing an experienced manager who does not really have the skills to be a Director of Football and really wants to just be a manager as it will just cause confusion.

My view is experience is not the be-all and end-all and - let's face it - experienced usually managers join Championship clubs either because the Championship is their level or because they are on their way back down through the levels but, if we do want an experienced manager than we shouldn't faff about with pretending we want a Director of Football to support the manager. We should just fire the manager and get experience in.

All that said, experience is not the main thing I would look for in a new manager. Ability counts for way more in my view. Sometimes that means experience but not always...

[Lanterne Rouge]

1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

I'm not sure Chris Coleman is the best example given he did little to change Sunderland's fortunes and, to be honest, I think we were far more culpable than Sunderland were in terms of why  they came back.

 

Absolutely this. We sat back so far we were practically horizontal in that game. The final score was completely our fault.

[Red-Robbo]

I think the biggest problem stem from recruitment and the limitations of the players he has to deploy. 

I'd never say Lee doesn't make mistakes, he certainly does, but against Boro he was like a one-armed man in a boxing match. It was technically possible, but highly unlikely we'd get anything out of it.

That problem goes deeper than Lee's managerial decisions, and needs to be addressed. If not whichever "wise old head" we bring in will have the same issues.

[Redmycolour]

2 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

SL is probably on the phone to Gary Johnson as I type. 

Not another Johnson, please no 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

He's inexperienced but he's perhaps just tactically limited too- which sounds odd given he's been immersed in football and how he's this modern manager with great ideas...

This! 

I don’t think he reads the game well, and unless he’s stubbornly overruling Holden and Macca, they don’t either.

There have been too many occasions where I’ve spotted (and several others on here or on a Radio Bristol call-in) tactical changes by the opposition, or just areas where the pre-game tactic isn’t working, yet our management team do nothing about it.

In some ways that’s fine, making a change may alter something that is working well, but in the main, it’s when we are not doing well.  Not just the Sunderland or Hull games either.

They are missing things at touchline level.  What feedback are the players giving too, or are they just waiting for LJ to sort it out.  I’d be moaning at my manager, my team mates with things like ‘McGeady is cheating, Korey, just sit on him for 5 and let LJ come up with the solution, cause he’s runningbthe show’.  I do see players like Marlon and Korey passing messages back, but I don’t see a response.

[REDOXO]

He had Pembo. He had him sacked!

[Merrick's Marvels]

Personally I think he's in the wrong job, rather than needing more help. He's a decent coach but not a leader of men. He should be a no.2, a training ground coach.

We'd be better off with an experienced no.1 responsible for setting out tactics, dealing with the man management of players, identifying transfer targets, being the public face of the club - the first two of those are manifest weaknesses of our current manager, imo.

Ain't ever going to happen though and we'll muddle onwards until things get horribly messy.                        

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Personally I think he's in the wrong job, rather than needing more help. He's a decent coach but not a leader of men. He should be a no.2, a training ground coach.

We'd be better off with an experienced no.1 responsible for setting out tactics, dealing with the man management of players, identifying transfer targets, being the public face of the club - the first two of those are manifest weaknesses of our current manager, imo.

Ain't ever going to happen though and we'll muddle onwards until things get horribly messy.                        

Great shout....I think his only way into the Prem is as a no2 to someone.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

This sounds like a John Ward situation.  He asked for an experienced assistant (I think he wanted Ray Harford);  the club decided to appoint a Director of football (Benny Lennartson).  The outcome was chaos and relegation, and eight or nine seasons to recover.

[BobBobSuperBob]

7 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Personally I think he's in the wrong job, rather than needing more help. He's a decent coach but not a leader of men. He should be a no.2, a training ground coach.

We'd be better off with an experienced no.1 responsible for setting out tactics, dealing with the man management of players, identifying transfer targets, being the public face of the club - the first two of those are manifest weaknesses of our current manager, imo.

Ain't ever going to happen though and we'll muddle onwards until things get horribly messy.                        

 

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Great shout....I think his only way into the Prem is as a no2 to someone.

It may sound harsh initially (And it’s irrelevant now anyway)

but I genuinely think if SL wanted him at the helm here at some point he should have come initially as the Academy Or U23 Coach IMHO

Worked on his skills , his coaching , his man managing

And followed a path (If capable would be my caveat) to Assistant before taking the realm here

If SL was so intent on LJ then it would have had many advantages including him developing alongside a group of players who we would hope would form a part and future of the side and IMHO giving LJ  the best chance of succeeding

Not too dissimilar to Southgate path with England

 

[pongo88]

3 hours ago, Dynamite Red said:

He has been in management over 5 years, 280+ games, played for 400+ games surrounded by a family in the football industry. He has had plenty of experience. 

He’s definitely been around for a long time, but is he experienced? One definition of “experience” I like is:

“Experience is the knowledge or mastery of an event or subject gained through involvement in or exposure to it.”

Using that definition, has been involved and exposed to the subject (football) but he definitely hasn’t mastered the art of football management 

[Merrick's Marvels]

Only because his name's been mentioned elsewhere a couple of times but - imo, input from someone like Mick McCarthy would be invaluable. 

He's experienced, would command respect, is pragmatic ie. he's not a naive idealist searching for the perfect tippy tap passing game.  

Also, his straight forward honesty, candour and humility would be a breath of fresh air compared to the bullscheisse and spin we are served up on a regular basis. 

Tomorrow night already feels like a crucial fixture, one in which we need to demonstrate some old fashioned bollox - forget your drones and your virtual reality gizmos and your 80 inch tv screens, tomorrow we need some old school Bouncebackability.

[Davefevs]

@Merrick's Marvels you’re on form today!

I think @BS4 on Tour... would agree with you....I like Mad Mick too.

[Robbored]

25 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Only because his name's been mentioned elsewhere a couple of times but - imo, input from someone like Mick McCarthy would be invaluable. 

He's experienced, would command respect, is pragmatic ie. he's not a naive idealist searching for the perfect tippy tap passing game.  

Also, his straight forward honesty, candour and humility would be a breath of fresh air compared to the bullscheisse and spin we are served up on a regular basis. 

Tomorrow night already feels like a crucial fixture, one in which we need to demonstrate some old fashioned bollox - forget your drones and your virtual reality gizmos and your 80 inch tv screens, tomorrow we need some old school Bouncebackability.

Definitely not for me!

The tractor boys couldn’t wait to see the back of MM. 

They'd had enough of his dull and pedestrian football and dour persona.

Plus, he’s not the kind of old school manager that wouldn’t buy into the strategy that SL has in place.

[Portland Bill]

4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

He's inexperienced but he's perhaps just tactically limited too- which sounds odd given he's been immersed in football and how he's this modern manager with great ideas...

His team plays like he did, pretty to watch with no end product, and when the going gets tough......we get bullied!

[Portland Bill]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

This! 

I don’t think he reads the game well, and unless he’s stubbornly overruling Holden and Macca, they don’t either.

There have been too many occasions where I’ve spotted (and several others on here or on a Radio Bristol call-in) tactical changes by the opposition, or just areas where the pre-game tactic isn’t working, yet our management team do nothing about it.

In some ways that’s fine, making a change may alter something that is working well, but in the main, it’s when we are not doing well.  Not just the Sunderland or Hull games either.

They are missing things at touchline level.  What feedback are the players giving too, or are they just waiting for LJ to sort it out.  I’d be moaning at my manager, my team mates with things like ‘McGeady is cheating, Korey, just sit on him for 5 and let LJ come up with the solution, cause he’s runningbthe show’.  I do see players like Marlon and Korey passing messages back, but I don’t see a response.

The amount of times I’ve heard a post match interview on radio Bristol, where LJ moans that the team “dropped to deep”. 

Your the fudgin manager, your standing on the touch line, why didn’t you do something about it then....... has always been my response to the Radio!. 

[old_eastender]

4 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

SL is probably on the phone to Gary Johnson as I type. 

Please do not tempt fate, given SLs seeming high regard of the Johnsons this could be a frightening prospect!

[Lew-T]

1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Only because his name's been mentioned elsewhere a couple of times but - imo, input from someone like Mick McCarthy would be invaluable. 

He's experienced, would command respect, is pragmatic ie. he's not a naive idealist searching for the perfect tippy tap passing game.  

Also, his straight forward honesty, candour and humility would be a breath of fresh air compared to the bullscheisse and spin we are served up on a regular basis. 

Tomorrow night already feels like a crucial fixture, one in which we need to demonstrate some old fashioned bollox - forget your drones and your virtual reality gizmos and your 80 inch tv screens, tomorrow we need some old school Bouncebackability.

Believe Mick is good friends with SL and co too. He’s always been complimentary of City and the ambition of the club.

Although it may be difficult to see that at present..

[EnderMB]

I think it's less to do with missing key tactical decisions, and more to do with wanting to have a single tactic that the club can perform well in.

It seems like we're doubling-down on possession-based play by eliminating players that offer us a Plan B. I think the theory is that continuous improvement in this approach is what will bring us up the table, rather than playing top trumps with players.

It's not a tactic I'm too fond of - seems similar to what we were doing under SOD, which makes me wonder whether it's LJ pushing this agenda, or whether it's a board decision...

[Merrick's Marvels]

28 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

His team plays like he did, pretty to watch with no end product, and when the going gets tough......we get bullied!

Agreed - teams often end up reflecting a lot about a manager.

In addition, it strikes me that tomorrow evening is the sort of game when Johnson Senior's team of old would dig out a result.

This would be based on some "old school" motivation from the manager; no-nonsense defending from the likes of McCombe and MacAllister; and Marvin Elliott covering every blade of grass and then some to hassle the opposition into distraction. Elliott also scored some vital goals - often away from home on a night game. On that foundation, Noble had the ability to produce moments of top quality.

10 years later we have a manager who favours a more modern approach to motivation, primarily on the basis that the team he's put together are a bunch of wallflowers; our defending this season has included too much nonsense rather than no-nonsense; Korey Smith is injured (plus goalscoring ain't his thing); and Paterson is capable of quality but is hardly one to be relied upon on a balmy Tuesday evening in West London never mind a wet one in Stoke. 

Tomorrow we need strength and personality - qualities sadly lacking in the team our manager has assembled. I'll take a point now.  

[Mendip City]

46 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

The amount of times I’ve heard a post match interview on radio Bristol, where LJ moans that the team “dropped to deep”. 

Your the fudgin manager, your standing on the touch line, why didn’t you do something about it then....... has always been my response to the Radio!. 

Interesting, I can’t think of a time he’s accepted responsibility. There’s always someone at fault or he needs more players or he’s not got the right type of players.... he buys* them and picks them. 

 

 

*I know MA does the signings but LJ claims to have final say. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

This! 

I don’t think he reads the game well, and unless he’s stubbornly overruling Holden and Macca, they don’t either.

There have been too many occasions where I’ve spotted (and several others on here or on a Radio Bristol call-in) tactical changes by the opposition, or just areas where the pre-game tactic isn’t working, yet our management team do nothing about it.

In some ways that’s fine, making a change may alter something that is working well, but in the main, it’s when we are not doing well.  Not just the Sunderland or Hull games either.

They are missing things at touchline level.  What feedback are the players giving too, or are they just waiting for LJ to sort it out.  I’d be moaning at my manager, my team mates with things like ‘McGeady is cheating, Korey, just sit on him for 5 and let LJ come up with the solution, cause he’s runningbthe show’.  I do see players like Marlon and Korey passing messages back, but I don’t see a response.

Yep.

Not proactive when he needs to be, not quick enough to react either. His in-game tweaks to change momentum are very limited and his starting tactics aren't always perfect, but especially in-game he may not make a change, or if he makes it he makes it too late, once the momentum has already shifted and we're against the tide..

[Redsi2]

How much experience did Pulls, O'Driscall and McInnes bring to the club and they were all complete failures so don't get the logic. LJ seems to get a lot of unfair criticism bit I agree things have to improve based on this calender year.

[Mendip City]

1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Also, his straight forward honesty, candour and humility would be a breath of fresh air compared to the bullscheisse and spin we are served up....

I can’t imagine any of those attributes being on Steve, Jon and Mark’s “head coach” role profile (unfortunately) 

 

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, Redsi2 said:

How much experience did Pulls, O'Driscall and McInnes bring to the club and they were all complete failures so don't get the logic. LJ seems to get a lot of unfair criticism bit I agree things have to improve based on this calender year.

There’s probably 80% of club’s fans moaning at their managers.  Only a small percentage are successful, and some of them are moaned about too.  Criticism goes with the job, it goes with social media and Forums where it’s much easier to moan than to praise.  Because there is so much criticism, some of it will be unfair.

[alexukhc]

Start a Joe Jordan thread again?