Academy thread

[Robbored]

1 minute ago, Newquay-Red said:

Only possession-based?

They'd be a perfect fit for the first team right now then.

All acadamies use the same methods. Teaching the fundamentals of the game.

[Dr Balls]

12 minutes ago, Robbored said:

All acadamies use the same methods. Teaching the fundamentals of the game.

Fundamental skills of the game yes. But if possession football gets drilled into young players as the only way to play, that's when we have a problem.

I am not suggesting they be exposed to "Warnockball" but they do need to understand the importance of reading a game, dealing with a team who are better at keeping possession than you, tackling, and the importance of playing the ball at speed. Slow ponderous possession is not good at any level, nor is possession for possession's sake. Look at how Athlerico Madrid play if you want a successful alternative to relentless possession.

[pillred]

15 hours ago, Back of the net said:

U23 shouldn’t be academy football. 

I’ll accept U21 after that you should be in the senior game. Some need to start lower down the leagues and develop, like Vardy and Ian Wright, others are good enough to start at the top, but I’m not having U23 football. 

Any player, playing regularly at 22 years old in academy football isn’t going to make it.

not ANY, most I grant you.

[Lrrr]

2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

It’s interesting that Brentford as part of their strategy binned their academy

Its the one glaring area where we’ve taken a different route

Brentford couldn't afford all the requirements that would come from being a category high enough to be worth it. Cat 3/4 still cost fair amount to run and with the amount of London clubs anyone close to good enough to make it gets pinched for pennies. This way they look at players 18+ who get released/debating whether new contract to play U23's is worth it and bring in the best ones.

[nebristolred]

1 hour ago, alexukhc said:

Same rules, start in lower leagues but can only get so far

Still the problem stands. They're taking the place of a standard football club, probably with decades of history, who've genuinely earned their right to be there, rather than being the plaything of rich clubs who are incapable of managing a standard squad size.

[alexukhc]

1 hour ago, nebristolred said:

Still the problem stands. They're taking the place of a standard football club, probably with decades of history, who've genuinely earned their right to be there, rather than being the plaything of rich clubs who are incapable of managing a standard squad size.

Yeah I do agree with that, sadly 

[JBFC II]

U23s playing cheddar now as part of cheddars 125th anniversary celebrations. Cheaper side out after the u23s won 2-1 at Sheffield United last Friday. 

U18s lost 2-0 at Sheffield Wednesday on Saturday, missing a penalty in the process

[JBFC II]

1-1 at half time between a very youthful U23s and Cheddar 

[cidered abroad]

On 21/08/2018 at 09:41, BobBobSuperBob said:

Possibly - although by the same tool they would have a massive pool to tap into

There must be hundreds of Mo Eisa s hidden away playing with mates on some London Estates

They are in a good place of course to pick up 18/19/20 yr olds released by London Clubs

As for us our youth scouting and set up has been in the past notoriously poor and Southampton and Norwich amongst several set up in our area better than we did

Im not anywhere near having great knowledge about our full set up now but we’ve clearly come on in miles

If the Academy is going to be a cornerstone of our ethos I do think we need to become a Level 1 Academy As otherwise we will lose some of our starlets before they get to any fruition  

I wonder how much is Brian Tinnion doing on the recruiting side in addition to managing our loans out.

[Port Said Red]

2 hours ago, JBFC II said:

1-1 at half time between a very youthful U23s and Cheddar 

What was the final score?

 

[Lrrr]

2 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

What was the final score?

 

3-1 Cheddar, we had an 18's team out. Fairly even Cheddar just took a couple more chances but we gifted them the 3rd.

[Cowshed]

On ‎21‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 10:25, Dr Balls said:

Fundamental skills of the game yes. But if possession football gets drilled into young players as the only way to play, that's when we have a problem.

I am not suggesting they be exposed to "Warnockball" but they do need to understand the importance of reading a game, dealing with a team who are better at keeping possession than you, tackling, and the importance of playing the ball at speed. Slow ponderous possession is not good at any level, nor is possession for possession's sake. Look at how Athlerico Madrid play if you want a successful alternative to relentless possession.

Possession football has to be drilled into players at academies to create the problem solvers you desire to see. Create more flexible footballers you have players that can adapt to differing play. Athletico Madrid develop players in the same manner. Their academy does not concentrate on winning v developing technique . Later years they play 4-3-3 to develop further flexibility and problem solving. Their transitions require high levels of technique drilled into them via years of possession drills.

Off at a tangent Athletico Madrid also believe this development creates players than have more will power due to having a greater emotional attachment to their team ... Technique and will power = Powerful football. They can still look ponderous and clumsy v Real Betis mind. 

 

[Port Said Red]

2 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Possession football has to be drilled into players at academies to create the problem solvers you desire to see. Create more flexible footballers you have players that can adapt to differing play. Athletico Madrid develop players in the same manner. Their academy plays does not concentrate on winning v developing technique . Later years they play 4-3-3 to develop further flexibility and problem solving. Their transitions require high levels of technique drilled into them via years of possession drills.

Off at a tangent Athletico Madrid also believe this development creates players than have more will power due to having a greater emotional attachment to their team ... Technique and will power = Powerful football. They can still look ponderous and clumsy v Real Betis mind. 

 

I almost always find your posts interesting, but I have to wonder whether your obviously technical knowledge of the game sometimes means you miss out on the pure joy of just watching it?

[Cowshed]

Just now, Port Said Red said:

I almost always find your posts interesting, but I have to wonder whether your obviously technical knowledge of the game sometimes means you miss out on the pure joy of just watching it?

I see things differently and different things to some fans obviously. I cringe at Cardiff's football and sometimes City's but Jets belter, Bryans goals … I fall over the seats the same as everybody else.  

 

[Cowshed]

On ‎21‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 09:41, BobBobSuperBob said:

Possibly - although by the same tool they would have a massive pool to tap into

There must be hundreds of Mo Eisa s hidden away playing with mates on some London Estates

They are in a good place of course to pick up 18/19/20 yr olds released by London Clubs

As for us our youth scouting and set up has been in the past notoriously poor and Southampton and Norwich amongst several set up in our area better than we did

Im not anywhere near having great knowledge about our full set up now but we’ve clearly come on in miles

If the Academy is going to be a cornerstone of our ethos I do think we need to become a Level 1 Academy As otherwise we will lose some of our starlets before they get to any fruition  

Cat 1 is not the be and end all ... If we look at the kids. 

Bristol City's geography can be in its favour. Southampton expect their academy boys to train in Southampton -  Its staggered via progression for lads outside the area who train at their development centre and also academy , and eventually they are expected to live in the area. Parents attitude to that outside of Southampton's locality? City have an advantage.

Having a Cat 2 academy does not mean a club cannot not do similar to a  Cat 1 academy. City can offer the same 121 coaching hours (more if they want), access to associated support for young footballers i.e. education and tutors, nutritionists, psychologists, sports science and on. Cat 1 can be good, its possible for Cat 2 to be great.

Bristol City can be seen as the club of choice for aspiring talent in the South West. That does not necessitate being Cat 1 but by having great relationships between club parents and club and grass roots football. If you are not great word gets around.

City's current success in Reid and Bryan HAS to continue with its Kelly's. No local players in the XI, no pathway to sell to parents and aspiring players.  

 

 

[Monkeh]

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

Cat 1 is not the be and end all ... If we look at the kids. 

Bristol City's geography can be in its favour. Southampton expect their academy boys to train in Southampton -  Its staggered via progression for lads outside the area who train at their development centre and also academy , and eventually they are expected to live in the area. Parents attitude to that outside of Southampton's locality? City have an advantage.

Having a Cat 2 academy does not mean a club cannot not do similar to a  Cat 1 academy. City can offer the same 121 coaching hours (more if they want), access to associated support for young footballers i.e. education and tutors, nutritionists, psychologists, sports science and on. Cat 1 can be good, its possible for Cat 2 to be great.

Bristol City can be seen as the club of choice for aspiring talent in the South West. That does not necessitate being Cat 1 but by having great relationships between club parents and club and grass roots football. If you are not great word gets around.

City's current success in Reid and Bryan HAS to continue with its Kelly's. No local players in the XI, no pathway to sell to parents and aspiring players.  

 

 

while thats nice to think of a team full of local talent, its just not practical, the pathway need to be there regardless of where the player is from be it Joe Morrell or Rory Holden from Ireland

[Cowshed]

14 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

while thats nice to think of a team full of local talent, its just not practical, the pathway need to be there regardless of where the player is from be it Joe Morrell or Rory Holden from Ireland

Nowhere in my post did I indicate it should be. A healthy functioning academy will always have good players in the building to use a phrase from Southampton and 2/3/4 players in its XI. The second point is a fundamental of the best academies in the World big and small, its frequently a written part of the clubs philosophy underling the FC's long term commitment and approach to football.

If you have no developed players in the XI, its not a pathway, its a failure. 

[Monkeh]

2 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Nowhere in my post did I indicate it should be. A healthy functioning academy will always have good players in the building to use a phrase from Southampton and 2/3/4 players in its XI. The second point is a fundamental of the best academies in the World big and small, its frequently a written part of the clubs philosophy underling the FC's long term commitment and approach to football.

If you have no developed players in the XI, its not a pathway, its a failure. 

southampton's last league game hand 0 players developed in at the club in the first 11 and 1 player developed by the club on the bench (didn't get on) so by your definition southampton's academy is a failure

[Cowshed]

Just now, Monkeh said:

southampton's last league game hand 0 players developed in at the club in the first 11 and 1 player developed by the club on the bench (didn't get on) so by your definition southampton's academy is a failure

Yes Southampton's world renowned academy is in danger of becoming a failure if it does not meet the reasons for its existence. As it is that academy has created huge sums of money that has been reinvested into the FC, ninety million in one season. I think a odd blip from years upon year of excellence including producing superstars can be forgiven.

But the point was … If a club looks upon development as truly being fundamental to its future and relentlessly strives to get highly skilled home grown/local players into its XI as being a non negotiable … It will.

[Lanterne Rouge]

7 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Yes Southampton's world renowned academy is in danger of becoming a failure if it does not meet the reasons for its existence. As it is that academy has created huge sums of money that has been reinvested into the FC, ninety million in one season. I think a odd blip from years upon year of excellence including producing superstars can be forgiven.

But the point was … If a club looks upon development as truly being fundamental to its future and relentlessly strives to get highly skilled home grown/local players into its XI as being a non negotiable … It will.

Is it perhaps more to do with Southampton`s philosophy changing in the last year or two from being prepared to risk home grown players in important games to one of staying up at all costs? Many Saints fans I know have noticed the team moving away from playing good football and risking losing to just trying to grind out 1-0 wins against the likes of Huddersfield - it`s fair to say a lot don`t like it and have even said they would prefer to be in the Championship and enjoying football again.