Queens Park Rangers v Bristol City Match Day 4

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

40 minutes ago, hodge said:

Please can we try 433....

Niki

Hunt .... Webster .... Kelly* .... Dasilva

Brownhill ... Pack .... Walsh

Watkins/O'Dowda .... Weimann .......Eliasson

* - If Baker properly fit then push Kelly to LB, perhaps even then Dasilva to LW and Eliasson to RW

After Saturday, not sure that I can justify Hunt (at fault for both goals) ahead of the much-criticised Pisano (who I actually thought had a decent game)...

[BRISTOL86]

9 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Found this from Bristolpost's Gregor McBoatface. So far this season. Number 2 is a worry.

The Robins average more possession than any other team in the Championship
Make fewest tackles per game
Make fewest fouls
Most fouled team per game
Most dribbles

Wouldn’t you expect 2) based on 1) ie if you have the most possession you’d make the least attempts to regain it? And 3) is just an inevitable outcome of 1) and 2) ?

Edited August 21, 2018 by BRISTOL86

[ExiledAjax]

3 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Presumably if you have the most posession, you're likely to make the fewest tackles?

And the fewest fouls - because you never tackle.

Biggest concern is probably finishing, and the seemingly soft underbelly.  At the moment we have averaged 5 shots on target per game, 7th in that particular table...yet we've scored only 3 goals.

Looking generally at the stats we are well up there in terms of passing, crosses, long balls etc, everything you'd expect from averaging just shy of 60% possession - and yet we've not managed to win yet.

For me this says one of two things. Either 1) we shouldn't worry as it is clear that beneath the results there is an ability to play good football, we just aren't getting the breaks, or 2) that is all well and good but we still need to score more goals than the opposition.

I remember after the last game a lot of people complaining off, to paraphrase, "Ineffective pseudo tiki-taka". Well the stats certainly bear things out. 

Personally I am going to try to be optimistic, but without an out and out finisher (aka Tammy - is Fammy such a player?) it looks as though we may be in for a rough ride.

Edited August 21, 2018 by ExiledAjax

[Esmond Million's Bung]

4 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Wouldn’t you expect 2) based on 1) ie if you have the most possession you’d make the least attempts to regain it? And 3) is just an inevitable outcome of 1) and 2) ?

Wouldn't you expect more than 1 clear cut chance from 3 games with all of that possession?

[BRISTOL86]

1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Wouldn't you expect more than 1 clear cut chance from 3 games with all of that possession?

When did I infer otherwise?  

Simply stating that you’d expect a strong correlation between possession and attempts to regain it. 

[B1ackbird]

6 hours ago, havanatopia said:

An image from the 70's that ironically probably best sums up the QPR of the 90's and beyond. In the context of the ever effervescent Stanley Bowles' words below.

Stan Bowles once uttered one of football's most famous quotes: “I blew the lot on vodka and tonic, gambling and fags. Looking back, I think I overdid it on the tonic.” Sadly now struggling with Alzeimer's Disease.

QPR are one of these teams that somehow have a knack for getting themselves of out trouble and they have been in trouble a lot in their more recent volatile times, splashing the cash big time only to either go bust, go into administration, get relegated, get slapped with transfer embargoes and fines. Terry Venables was the man that most fans, alive today, would likely connect with the most for a promotion and a cup final appearance. 

QPR 1-0 Leeds United (April 23, 1983)

QPR sealed promotion back to the top flight thanks to a 1-0 home win over Leeds. Rangers were flying under Terry Venables and clinched promotion with six games remaining. They eventually finished 10 points clear at the top of the old Division Two.

QPR 1-1 Tottenham FA Cup final (May 22, 1982)

In what remains the club's only FA Cup final appearance, Terry Venables' side drew 1-1 with Spurs. With the scores tied 0-0 the game went into extra time. Glen Hoddle put Tottenham 1-0 up before Terry Fenwick equalised for the Hoops. However, in the replay Hoddle scored the only goal of the game - a penalty - to win his side the cup. 

This one sticks in the throat a bit:-

Sheffield Wednesday 1-3 QPR (May 8, 2004)

Then managed by Ian Holloway, QPR secured promotion to Division One (now the Championship) on the last day of the season at Hillsborough. An own goal and strikes from Kevin Gallen and Paul Furlong helped the Hoops edge out Bristol City. Bar stewards. Or should we blame Wilson for what turned out to be his last few games before departing the club and as reminded to us by @headhunter in his thread 'Lansdown - Wilson Departure in 2004'.

And in 2011..

 

The only way is up: Neil Warnock (centre) celebrates promotion at Vicarage Road with Alejandro Faurlin (left) and Adel Taarabt (right).

You simply cannot talk about promotions to the top flight and fail to see Warnock involved somewhere; he crops up with such regularity.

And of course not forgetting the 2014 play off final win over Derby when Gary O'Neill was given a straight red and QPR hung on with 10 men to the delight of Harry Redknapp and an ultimately financially crippling legacy; again.

We owe QPR a bit of a good hiding frankly. Pummelled on Saturday they might just stick 5 across the back and defend in depth just to steady the ship with a draw; that will do little to suppress the clamour to criticise our coaches, head of recruitment and owner though and frankly; the paying public deserve answers.

QPR could be heading down to the third tier again, early days of course, but that win at Hillsborough in May 2004, drawing to an end to their last stay, still lives in my memory. These are the sort of events that, were I coach, I would be playing in the changing room before tonights game. Partly settling a score and easing the pain for us fans is a duty any era of City players are beholden to carry out. Be delighted for Lee Johnson to quote such types of matches post event to 'talk directly' to us fans. It is what creates the bond and with this gaffer that has always been lacking. His father was much better at it. Come on Lee bring us back into the fold of support, stop making excuses and motivate your players. Wallop them again and send Mr. McLaren into retirement.

 

Nice one H.. 

Qpr. Was my first away, 7/10/78, looked it up in David Woods book Bristol city the modern era. Lost 0-1 in injury time, it said "City's unwillingness to settle for a point cost them dear in the dying seconds as they are caught out by a Rangers counter attack. Don Shanks centre is missed by two defenders and Peter Eastoe heads the ball back for Martyn Busby to fire in a low drive past Shaw from 20 yards. " 

The City fans turned to leave and the loudest song of the day," your gunna get your f****** heads kicked in.. " rang out. 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Just now, BRISTOL86 said:

When did I infer otherwise?  

Simply stating that you’d expect a strong correlation between possession and attempts to regain it. 

Calm down it was a question, the question mark was the clue.

As I am merely speculating that the correlation between possession and chances should be higher, maybe that highlights the problem, creativity, the lack of.

Should be a great game tonight QPR have also created only one clear cut chance.

Having said all of that I would say that the Forest equaliser, Bolton's 2nd goal, Plymouth's goal and Boro's 2nd there was not a tackle in sight, that must be important?

[Full nelson]

Must win game! As I can’t see many sides dropping points against qpr this season. I want to go with a 3-1win but it will read in the report after the game as “city had  15 corners, 24 shots, 1 on target and 82% possession” and we’ve lost 2-0 :( 

[CyderInACan]

6 hours ago, Squire Dastardly said:

A propos nothing in particular, I understand that QPR's away strip as worn when they were tonked 7-1 by WBA on Saturday was designed by Katie Price.

Surely that’s far too random to be made up? Surely? Source?

[Sturny]

42 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

After Saturday, not sure that I can justify Hunt (at fault for both goals) ahead of the much-criticised Pisano (who I actually thought had a decent game)...

But but... apparently we're not allowed to have an opinion on any of these players until they've played 100+ games for us  ( according to some posters on here)

Edited August 21, 2018 by Sturny

[kiwicolin]

Heard that Opi Edwards is in the squad 

[BRISTOL86]

17 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Calm down it was a question, the question mark was the clue.

As I am merely speculating that the correlation between possession and chances should be higher, maybe that highlights the problem, creativity, the lack of.

Should be a great game tonight QPR have also created only one clear cut chance.

Having said all of that I would say that the Forest equaliser, Bolton's 2nd goal, Plymouth's goal and Boro's 2nd there was not a tackle in sight, that must be important?

That’s why the clear cut chances stat is nonsense. Combined 5 goals from 2 clear cut chances between us and QPR. Is there even a standard definition or is it down to someone’s personal judgement? 

I think you’d probably find the same at most clubs though. In fact I’d wager the majority of goals in the whole league don’t come from ‘clear cut chances.’

Just looked at the stats of all Boro’s games to date. They’ve created 6 clear cut chances apparently and scored 11 goals.

Agree with the final paragraph, simply put we make it far too easy for teams to create chances against us because we’re piss weak as a team defensively. 

[Septic Peg]

This has a draw written all over it. 2-2.

 

Wonder who is playing CB tonight. Pisano again? Thought he didn't do too bad tbf.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Septic Peg

[Red-Robbo]

59 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Found this from Bristolpost's Gregor McBoatface. So far this season. Number 2 is a worry.

The Robins average more possession than any other team in the Championship
Make fewest tackles per game
Make fewest fouls
Most fouled team per game
Most dribbles

 

I guess you don't have to tackle if you have the ball in the first place.

It wouldn't surprise me if another stat revealed we took the most touches before getting the ball in the opponent's box.

[cheshire_red]

I really quite detest the Queens, arrogant buggers. I don't think we have the personnel or confidence to rub salt in their wounds unfortunately

[Mr Popodopolous]

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/7/Seasons/7379/Stages/16389/TeamStatistics/England-Championship-2018-2019

The stats are interesting...We have indeed made the least tackles per game so far (8.3).

The team who have made 2nd least per game? Middlesborough, with 13.

Rather more worryingly though, we have also made 2nd least interceptions. I always took the view that if you don't tackle so much you press and intercept in key areas a lot more to compensate, but 6.7 of those per game, when combined with the tackles- is not good at all!

Edited August 21, 2018 by Mr Popodopolous

[BRISTOL86]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/7/Seasons/7379/Stages/16389/TeamStatistics/England-Championship-2018-2019

The stats are interesting...We have indeed made the least tackles per game so far (8.3).

The team who have made 2nd least per game? Middlesborough, with 13.

Rather more worryingly though, we have also made 2nd least interceptions. I always took the view that if you don't tackle so much you press and intercept in key areas a lot more to compensate, but 6.7 of those per game, when combined with the tackles- is not good at all!

As far as I can tell we’ve adopted the ‘stand around and watch’ approach to defending so I can’t say I’m surprised! 

(And still we’ll all clamour for a striker  )

Edited August 21, 2018 by BRISTOL86

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, BRISTOL86 said:

As far as I can tell we’ve adopted the ‘stand around and watch’ approach to defending so I can’t say I’m surprised! 

Great positioning can look like that, for screening and turning over of the ball...but this seems in short supply with us!

[And Its Smith]

Massive game tonight.  Our best opportunity for an away win for a while.  Can we win our first away game since Fulham last October! 

If we do win then it could give the confidence to improve both our home and away performances and, looking at fixtures we could go on to get 12-14 points from our next 8 games.  If we lose to an awful QPR side then where do we go from there?  Especially away from home.  Could end up getting 6-8 points from next 8 games.

I have never been a 'Johnson Out' fan as I am happy to see us build over time but it does feel like tonight is bigger than most games.  Confidence is nearly as important as ability! 

[BRISTOL86]

4 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Massive game tonight.  Our best opportunity for an away win for a while.  Can we win our first away game since Fulham last October! 

If we do win then it could give the confidence to improve both our home and away performances and, looking at fixtures we could go on to get 12-14 points from our next 8 games.  If we lose to an awful QPR side then where do we go from there?  Especially away from home.  Could end up getting 6-8 points from next 8 games.

I have never been a 'Johnson Out' fan as I am happy to see us build over time but it does feel like tonight is bigger than most games.  Confidence is nearly as important as ability! 

Wow is it really that long? Jeez. 

[Ivorguy]

Anyone else got an odd feeling that LJ may already be half out the door?  Holden' s pre match interview sounded more like that of a Head Coach, whereas LJ's last interview almost appeared to be a 'back me with more money (not happened as far as we know re any loan coming in) or sack me'

Don't think things are too happy behind the scenes with LJ

But guess most if not all of you suspect I am seeing trouble where there isn't any

anyone know whether SL will be at tonight's game?

 

 

 

[BRISTOL86]

2 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

Anyone else got an odd feeling that LJ may already be half out the door?  Holden' s pre match interview sounded more like that of a Head Coach, whereas LJ's last interview almost appeared to be a 'back me with more money (not happened as far as we know re any loan coming in) or sack me'

Don't think things are too happy behind the scenes with LJ

But guess most if not all of you suspect I am seeing trouble where there isn't any

anyone know whether SL will be at tonight's game?

 

 

 

Haven’t seen the interviews but I think it’s pretty normal for them to be divvied up between LJ/DH/JM

[And Its Smith]

6 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Wow is it really that long? Jeez. 

I think so but havent checked.  I was at that game and going tonight (that was my last away game I think) so might bring some luck! 

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Massive game tonight.  Our best opportunity for an away win for a while.  Can we win our first away game since Fulham last October! 

If we do win then it could give the confidence to improve both our home and away performances and, looking at fixtures we could go on to get 12-14 points from our next 8 games.  If we lose to an awful QPR side then where do we go from there?  Especially away from home.  Could end up getting 6-8 points from next 8 games.

I have never been a 'Johnson Out' fan as I am happy to see us build over time but it does feel like tonight is bigger than most games.  Confidence is nearly as important as ability! 

Must've imagined those late winners at Hull and Sheffield United then?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

21 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

That’s why the clear cut chances stat is nonsense. Combined 5 goals from 2 clear cut chances between us and QPR. Is there even a standard definition or is it down to someone’s personal judgement? 

I think you’d probably find the same at most clubs though. In fact I’d wager the majority of goals in the whole league don’t come from ‘clear cut chances.’

Just looked at the stats of all Boro’s games to date. They’ve created 6 clear cut chances apparently and scored 11 goals.

Agree with the final paragraph, simply put we make it far too easy for teams to create chances against us because we’re piss weak as a team defensively. 

I would have thought that it's simple and obvious really and seek and ye shall find from the EPL index site  'A situation where a player should reasonably be expected to score usually in a one-on-one scenario or from very close range'

Man City are probably the easiest team to explain it with.

In the Charity shield they created 6 clear cut chances but only converted 2 of those.

In their first league game against Arsenal they never created a clear cut chance but scored 2 goals by what would be considered 2 speculative efforts and as we know in the case of BCFC speculative can end up in Ashton Park. In Man City's case the first goal was from outside of the area and the 2nd was 15 yards out with 3 defenders and the keeper to beat.

on Sunday had 5 clear cut chances and scored 6 goals.

You may not agree but there you have it, weirdly last season Manu had the most clear cut chances in the prem 2.35 per game, the bottom line is it is a stat and most managers get off on stats and we know our manager does just that, so I am sure that he is aware.

[Robin Ashton]

Am I right in thinking that if we don't win tonight LJ will have set a new record for City of consecutive away games without a win?

[And Its Smith]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Must've imagined those late winners at Hull and Sheffield United then?

Fair enough.  Memory playing tricks! 

 

[BRISTOL86]

9 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

I would have thought that it's simple and obvious really and seek and ye shall find from the EPL index site  'A situation where a player should reasonably be expected to score usually in a one-on-one scenario or from very close range'

Man City are probably the easiest team to explain it with.

In the Charity shield they created 6 clear cut chances but only converted 2 of those.

In their first league game against Arsenal they never created a clear cut chance but scored 2 goals by what would be considered 2 speculative efforts and as we know in the case of BCFC speculative can end up in Ashton Park. In Man City's case the first goal was from outside of the area and the 2nd was 15 yards out with 3 defenders and the keeper to beat.

on Sunday had 5 clear cut chances and scored 6 goals.

You may not agree but there you have it, weirdly last season Manu had the most clear cut chances in the prem 2.35 per game, the bottom line is it is a stat and most managers get off on stats and we know our manager does just that, so I am sure that he is aware.

I’m sure he is aware and won’t like it. But I still think that’s it’s not in isolation a very useful stat. 

Extreme examples of course - but if you only create one CCC per game but are excellent defensively and prolific when those chances do come then you may win the league. Whereas you may play scintillating attacking football and create 5 CCC per game, but if you squander more than you take and can’t keep the ball out of your own net you may well get relegated. 

All that aside let’s just hope for a positive performance and result tonight. I think the reaction to Saturday was massively over the top, however I do appreciate the fact that it’s not just about these 3 games this season. 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

49 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I guess you don't have to tackle if you have the ball in the first place.

It wouldn't surprise me if another stat revealed we took the most touches before getting the ball in the opponent's box.

I suggest that as I said to another poster take a look at the Forest equaliser, Bolton's 2nd goal, Plymouth's goal and Boro's 2nd there was not a tackle in sight, that must be important?

[BRISTOL86]

16 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Fair enough.  Memory playing tricks! 

 

It’s not much better. 8th Dec was last away win - 256 days and counting! (Though I appreciate there was a close season in between it’s still grim!)