Fuber Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 4 hours ago, Fuber said: The issue is Spuds. Our track record since Burt left has been pretty atrocious. The only out and out successes have been, to a degree - Brownhill, Diedhiou, O'Dowda, and Eliasson, and so far Weimann. We don't have a single profit under the new scouting team (Ashton onwards since Jan 2016). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 8 hours ago, spudski said: It's a lot more complicated than that Dave unfortunately. As an example...transfer fees can be spread over years...they don't all get paid up front. That’s why I gave a fictitious example of fees being spread, you must’ve missed that bit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuber Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 Just to be clear. I quoted myself as the edit button was not working on my Samsung. @Phileas Fogg just for the record I meant 'we don't have a single profit under the new scouting team' in terms of profit on players signed by said scouting team. Not on players who we've sold since the change up in general. I may not rate Ashton highly but he is a very good negotiator when getting fees for assets. I.e. the fees for Bryan and Reid. Magnússon to an extent as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: That’s why I gave a fictitious example of fees being spread, you must’ve missed that bit! My mistake Dave...thought you purely meant wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: That’s why I gave a fictitious example of fees being spread, you must’ve missed that bit! People confuse cash flow (payment terms) and P&L here all the time. FFP runs off P&L not cash flow as I understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, Nibor said: People confuse cash flow (payment terms) and P&L here all the time. FFP runs off P&L not cash flow as I understand it. Correct. It's profit and loss annually. £13m per season over a rolling 3 year period is the absolute limit. If owners don't put cash/equity in, that allowance falls to £5m per season. Excluded from the costs are- and I don't know all exclusions, but it seems to be: stadia expenditure, academy/youth and Community Spend. Teams can spend as much as they like on these and it doesn't count towards FFP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 24 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Correct. It's profit and loss annually. £13m per season over a rolling 3 year period is the absolute limit. If owners don't put cash/equity in, that allowance falls to £5m per season. Excluded from the costs are- and I don't know all exclusions, but it seems to be: stadia expenditure, academy/youth and Community Spend. Teams can spend as much as they like on these and it doesn't count towards FFP. The effects of it being P&L based over 3 years are interesting. You sell Jonathan Kodjia to Villa for £15m, £11m unconditional. You generally (I think they'd take a dim view of changing accounting policies too much) would have to recognise that £11m immediately regardless of payment terms. Three years later it falls out of the FFP scope in one big hit. Same deal spending only in reverse. I imagine this makes for some real headaches and unusual deal structures when you consider the knock on effects for the other club(s) in the chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnefcok Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 Does Lansdown get heavily involved in transfers? Lots of discussion on our forum at the moment about Hemmings not sanctioning certain deals etc etc. Players have been sold for big money but as of yet very little investment this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Nibor said: People confuse cash flow (payment terms) and P&L here all the time. FFP runs off P&L not cash flow as I understand it. Indeed they do. Indeed it does. 30 minutes ago, Nibor said: The effects of it being P&L based over 3 years are interesting. You sell Jonathan Kodjia to Villa for £15m, £11m unconditional. You generally (I think they'd take a dim view of changing accounting policies too much) would have to recognise that £11m immediately regardless of payment terms. Three years later it falls out of the FFP scope in one big hit. Same deal spending only in reverse. I imagine this makes for some real headaches and unusual deal structures when you consider the knock on effects for the other club(s) in the chain. All clubs follow the same Amortisation policies. They take the fee and wages (and anything else) and spread it equally over the term of the contract....so at the end the contract is worth zero....irrespective of the payment terms to the other club. And should we sale, we raise a transfer profit / loss against what we sell minus the remaining part of the amortised fee and wages. This is a great article on various financial aspects, including shirt sales etc Written simply too. Interesting that the likes of Man Utd try to pay upfront to reduce the fee. Just now, pnefcok said: Does Lansdown get heavily involved in transfers? Lots of discussion on our forum at the moment about Hemmings not sanctioning certain deals etc etc. Players have been sold for big money but as of yet very little investment this summer. Ultimately he’ll sanction it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted August 24, 2018 Report Share Posted August 24, 2018 7 hours ago, Fuber said: Just to be clear. I may not rate Ashton highly I did enjoy the irony of you saying you don’t rate Ashton highly, but also using a catchphrase of his in the same post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuber Posted August 24, 2018 Report Share Posted August 24, 2018 1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said: I did enjoy the irony of you saying you don’t rate Ashton highly, but also using a catchphrase of his in the same post ... Firstly. Damn. Secondly. I still consider him a sh** head of recruitment. I rest my case. Going to bugger off before I spout more of his quotes and dig myself a deeper hole. . .. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted August 24, 2018 Report Share Posted August 24, 2018 12 hours ago, pnefcok said: Does Lansdown get heavily involved in transfers? Lots of discussion on our forum at the moment about Hemmings not sanctioning certain deals etc etc. Players have been sold for big money but as of yet very little investment this summer. As Davefevs has said, SL ultimately rubber stamps any deal but he is not as involved at the front end as he once was, having learned his lesson. In your case I wonder if it is wages rather than fees that mean deals are not sanctioned? Either way it is only going to get harder for you to compete in this league as well as you have done before, as it is for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted August 25, 2018 Report Share Posted August 25, 2018 On 23/08/2018 at 10:17, havanatopia said: Since his name has been raised I think the club were wrong to remove Burt and are now, partly, paying the consequences by buying a load of dross and, in many cases, at ridiculously high fees. Not a chance we would have bought Engvall, for example, with Burt in the job. Huge mistake on SL's pocket and our decent progress unearthing many of those players that helped Cotts win League 1 with a canter; such progress blown away by some very poor decisions. SPUDSKI QUOTE - No...but we would have bought someone just as bad depending which Agent Burt had in his pocket. Rather strong accusatory words there Spud. Do you have evidence to back it up especially when the man himself is not here to defend himself. You went on to say what a disastrous season it was with Burt and Cotts in charge that League 1 season; As a supporter i can only see unprecedented success; literally, in our history. To slight both of these men over that sounds rather personal. All we have seen under Ashton's tenure, by contrast, is dud after dud of signing with the odd bright light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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