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Bristol City fans look for help in legal fight against West Midlands police force


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1 minute ago, The Bard said:

People like you would lead us into a police state / military dictatorship with such a dopey attitude. This is a straight forward case of abuse of power by the WMP.  Why is there anti police feeling?  Well because those of us with our eyes open have seen police take the opportunity with football fans to get away with a few things.  My brother was punched at Leicester for no good reason for example. I work with the police in my job so I have an understanding of the challenges they face.  However, you can't turn a blind eye to nonsense like this.  I think those taking this action should be supported and applauded as they are carrying out a civic duty.

100% agree with this.

 

It's the bits they don't film on their many TV shows. No wonder crime is rising when every copper is out filming all day and night.

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Think the police do a tremendous job in very difficult circumstances. Couple of my best mates sons are in the Police, one in the West Mids and they are good lads. 

When the Police grossly over step the mark, they should be accountable. Disappointed in this instance, as like with the train to Plymouth (those of an age will know), seemingly there is just no justification for their actions. Pity they haven’t conducted an independent investigation themselves and, as necessary, apologised  and compensated the victims. 

Would add though increasingly getting ***** off with their relaxed attitude to law breakers from other groups in society who get off scot free for things like trashing the countryside while football fans appear to be seen as easy game. Unfair world I suppose where different rules apply to minorities and those of a certain class. 

 

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14 hours ago, 1bristolcity said:

The Police do a fantastic job in this country, picking up societies mess, try doing the job for a week and come back here and tell us all how you coped.

Doesn’t give them a pass to do whatever they want mate.

Where do you draw the one? By your logic, ain’t as I did lots of good work I should be allowed to get away with breaking the law every now and again 

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14 hours ago, 1bristolcity said:

Save your money and put it to a more worthy cause, maybe to help real victims fight injustice in counties where the police really are unlawful. So your son wasn't actually arrested or even rounded up,, just put it down to one of life's experiences, this culture of suing just about anyone or anything from the NHS to the Police is a severe strain on budgets. Of course if there really was a travesty of justice fair enough, but a couple of lads having to miss a football match, I don't think so. 

The good news is if you let the police on this country get away with th small misdemeanours, it won’t be long before there committing the big ones you speak.

Of I steal from on your house, but it’s my a little bit, is that alright it have I still broken the law?

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2 minutes ago, Moor2Sea said:

Think the police do a tremendous job in very difficult circumstances. Couple of my best mates sons are in the Police, one in the West Mids and they are good lads. 

When the Police grossly over step the mark, they should be accountable. Disappointed in this instance, as like with the train to Plymouth (those of an age will know), seemingly there is just no justification for their actions. Pity they haven’t conducted an independent investigation themselves and, as necessary, apologised  and compensated the victims. 

Would add though increasingly getting ***** off with their relaxed attitude to law breakers from other groups in society who get off scot free for things like trashing the countryside while football fans appear to be seen as easy game. Unfair world I suppose where different rules apply to minorities and those of a certain class. 

 

There's something seriously wrong when British Police defend people chanting "British Police, Go To Hell".

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51 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said:

See this is the 'reasoning' that people like you put up to demean the Police, of course there will be cases where the Police have not been up to the mark, corruption assault you name it, why don't you include the police that have dies in the course of duty? The House of Commons killing recently, the copper that was hacked to death in London, Manchester....there is a long list.

But remember cops are recruited from society, like you and me, of course there will be issues, but by and large it works well, nothing is perfect, but without the support of the Public it is almost impossible for the Police to do their job, what I am seeing is a Police Force that has the weight of societies problems thrust upon them that has nothing to do with Law and Order, for instance boozed up High Streets every weekend, and having to deal with societies homeless, mentally ill etc.

Football 'hooligans' are at least bread and butter Police matters, as I said it's the sort of situation they are trained for, and on the whole the handle it just fine.   

Rather odd that we castigate some that we accuse as Horse Punchers when the Police are going about their duties, yet our own seem to happy do condemn the Police on here.

So what's it to be?

I think the issue is that it’s the same police force that continue to cause all the same problems!

WMP haven’t been involved with any London or Manchester terror attacks, similarly, The police of London or Manchester never seem to be involved with major issues regarding football hooligans, despite them having plenty of clubs & supporters to deal with.

WMP have always caused problems & by policing the way they have for decades, they have caused their own problems, become unapproachable & they have then given the majority of forces a bad name.

The general public & that’s what football supporters are, just members of the general public enter the WMP area in fear, I was at that Walsall play-off fixture as a 14 year-old, I returned a few years later & witnessed their heavy handedness again, despite City fans being encouraged to drink in their supporters club, the police were then waiting at the queue to get into the stadium & basically pulling anyone out of the queue who smelt of alcohol!! I was always brought up to treat people how I wanted to be treated, WMP have treated the general public like they are guilty until proven innocent!! This is The UK, I always thought people were innocent until proven guilty? Not in around Birmingham it would seem!

If by bringing this action against the WMP it means that they have to rethink the way they police & that the general members of the public are allowed to walk down the road talking to each other rather than being herded like cattle back out of a city, having done nothing wrong.

Let’s not forget, these individuals weren’t known to the police, there had been no police intelligence about these individuals & as far as we’re aware, there had been no complaints with regards to any of these individuals behaviour prior to them being refused access to do what they were there to do, watch a football match!

They weren’t there for a demonstration, or carrying any offensive weapons or items, they were there to watch a football match.

How many people have been refused entry to a cricket match in & around Birmingham or anywhere else in the country for that matter? Not many if any I would guess so why is it acceptable that 10 football supporters be treated like this? It’s not!!

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28 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said:

Another that can't argue anything, but can only make childish retorts.

Oh well...

I can debate and discuss as well as the next citizen, on the subject of the british police force.......however I didn't have the time or the inclination, as I felt that your entrenched simplistic statement only deserved the fatuous glib reply that was forthcoming.   ‟ Bad men need nothing more to compass their needs, than that good men should look on and do nothing ‟.............Ok the language is a bit archaic, and ‟men“ rather than “people“ is a little 19th century non-pc?, but for me, it sums it up better than i could.  As you say.......“Oh well“

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3 hours ago, 1bristolcity said:

Another that can't argue anything, but can only make childish retorts.

Oh well...

We all need to be accountable for our actions. Whether you’re a policeman or not.

Thing is if all you’re doing is walking to or from a football match what are the actions that you need to account for?

Let’s face it. West Midlands Police aren’t unfamiliar with things like this. Perhaps they simply have a greater proportion of officers who aren’t upto the job.

Ask the family of the poor bastard who was recently murdered whilst on the phone to them. 

Or anyone who has been a victim of injustice. Hillsborough anyone?

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2 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

I think the issue is that it’s the same police force that continue to cause all the same problems!

WMP haven’t been involved with any London or Manchester terror attacks, similarly, The police of London or Manchester never seem to be involved with major issues regarding football hooligans, despite them having plenty of clubs & supporters to deal with.

WMP have always caused problems & by policing the way they have for decades, they have caused their own problems, become unapproachable & they have then given the majority of forces a bad name.

The general public & that’s what football supporters are, just members of the general public enter the WMP area in fear, I was at that Walsall play-off fixture as a 14 year-old, I returned a few years later & witnessed their heavy handedness again, despite City fans being encouraged to drink in their supporters club, the police were then waiting at the queue to get into the stadium & basically pulling anyone out of the queue who smelt of alcohol!! I was always brought up to treat people how I wanted to be treated, WMP have treated the general public like they are guilty until proven innocent!! This is The UK, I always thought people were innocent until proven guilty? Not in around Birmingham it would seem!

If by bringing this action against the WMP it means that they have to rethink the way they police & that the general members of the public are allowed to walk down the road talking to each other rather than being herded like cattle back out of a city, having done nothing wrong.

Let’s not forget, these individuals weren’t known to the police, there had been no police intelligence about these individuals & as far as we’re aware, there had been no complaints with regards to any of these individuals behaviour prior to them being refused access to do what they were there to do, watch a football match!

They weren’t there for a demonstration, or carrying any offensive weapons or items, they were there to watch a football match.

How many people have been refused entry to a cricket match in & around Birmingham or anywhere else in the country for that matter? Not many if any I would guess so why is it acceptable that 10 football supporters be treated like this? It’s not!!

It was more than 10 originally, but the police's approach to this matter has discouraged many from continuing, so i'm backing these folks with a donation and trust WMP are held to account, and the other smug bastards around the country who push people around with impunity currently are forced to modify their approach to football policing.

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I was one of the Ten fans who are fighting for justice, the day started with me and a friend drinking in a bar in the centre of birmingham. The WMP had 3 riot vans parked outside most of the time we were there. The Bristol police came in a few times talking to us and asking what time would we be leaving. We asked how long would it  take to walk to the ground, they said about 20-25 mins so we left the pub at around 20 past 2 thinking we would get ascorted but the 3 riot vans had gone. We then heeded towards the ground, we were then meet by around 15-20 WMP and kept on a corner for approx 1 hour being told we were a threat to sociaity. We were then marched to the train station and headed back to Bristol. There was no need to stop or hold us we had done nothing wrong, I didnt even know any others in the group.

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13 minutes ago, shorts178 said:

I was one of the Ten fans who are fighting for justice, the day started with me and a friend drinking in a bar in the centre of birmingham. The WMP had 3 riot vans parked outside most of the time we were there. The Bristol police came in a few times talking to us and asking what time would we be leaving. We asked how long would it  take to walk to the ground, they said about 20-25 mins so we left the pub at around 20 past 2 thinking we would get ascorted but the 3 riot vans had gone. We then heeded towards the ground, we were then meet by around 15-20 WMP and kept on a corner for approx 1 hour being told we were a threat to sociaity. We were then marched to the train station and headed back to Bristol. There was no need to stop or hold us we had done nothing wrong, I didnt even know any others in the group.

I hope you get justice mate. The behaviour of WMP that day should never be allowed to happen again.

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8 hours ago, 1bristolcity said:

See this is the 'reasoning' that people like you put up to demean the Police, of course there will be cases where the Police have not been up to the mark, corruption assault you name it, why don't you include the police that have dies in the course of duty? The House of Commons killing recently, the copper that was hacked to death in London, Manchester....there is a long list.

But remember cops are recruited from society, like you and me, of course there will be issues, but by and large it works well, nothing is perfect, but without the support of the Public it is almost impossible for the Police to do their job, what I am seeing is a Police Force that has the weight of societies problems thrust upon them that has nothing to do with Law and Order, for instance boozed up High Streets every weekend, and having to deal with societies homeless, mentally ill etc.

Football 'hooligans' are at least bread and butter Police matters, as I said it's the sort of situation they are trained for, and on the whole the handle it just fine.   

Rather odd that we castigate some that we accuse as Horse Punchers when the Police are going about their duties, yet our own seem to happy do condemn the Police on here.

So what's it to be?

No one is demeaning the Police from what I've read. In fact anyone that has commented on them generally has said they respect the job the majority do. As do I.

You are replying as if any critical comment means we are condemning the whole force, which we clearly are not. It's not black and white. In fact, the complaints are very specific.

Do you not think they should be investigated when complaints are made? If not, why not? Saying "because most of them are fine", is not a vaild answer.

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, jaydee=inspiration said:

Donating now.

Hate to say it though, but the linked site looks dodgy, so when this gets posted on other fan forums that aren’t aware of the story beforehand, they’ll click that link and think twice and probably close it. 

Fair play for putting the work in, but I would have chosen a more reputable site.

Hi mate. Good feedback. It is 100% safe, we and many other organisations use it to process membership payments and donations like this. Thanks for donating.

Stu

 

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No worries stu, just want you guys to raise as much as possible.

I work in the business of UX (user experience) design and the psychology of how people assess and make decisions on the web. Maybe think about changing the image to something more positive? The silhouettes subconsciously make users think of people lurking in the shadows - a negative. Maybe something fans can identify with emotionally.

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3 hours ago, Paul Turnip said:

No one is demeaning the Police from what I've read. In fact anyone that has commented on them generally has said they respect the job the majority do. As do I.

You are replying as if any critical comment means we are condemning the whole force, which we clearly are not. It's not black and white. In fact, the complaints are very specific.

Do you not think they should be investigated when complaints are made? If not, why not? Saying "because most of them are fine", is not a vaild answer.

 

 

 

I honestly wouldn't bother mate. 

I asked on an earlier post for him to come up with facts as to why he blindly backed the OB (after he asked for the same thing from another poster) and he chose to ignore it. Even in the face of evidence that points to the OB being out of order.

I also mentioned several other things that contradicted his viewpoint and he chose to ignore those too. He then posted saying if we don't back the OB unequivocally as a society we are dooommmeed. 

Basically, the usual OB response for anything that goes against their grain.

It's the authoritative equivalent of a 5 year old of putting their fingers in their ears and shouting "I can't hear you so I am right".

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2 hours ago, Paul Turnip said:

No one is demeaning the Police from what I've read. In fact anyone that has commented on them generally has said they respect the job the majority do. As do I.

You are replying as if any critical comment means we are condemning the whole force, which we clearly are not. It's not black and white. In fact, the complaints are very specific.

Do you not think they should be investigated when complaints are made? If not, why not? Saying "because most of them are fine", is not a vaild answer.

 

 

 

Well there are plenty of comments made on here that is very much anti Police in tone, just look through and see for yourself. I am certainly not going to copy them. 

The complaints that have been made are specific in that apparently the lads involved were merely drinking in a pub, and were expecting to have a Police escort to the ground when they decided to leave the Pub. They mentioned that riot vans were parked outside the Pub for  sometime, whilst they were there. Avon and Somerset Police we are told asked them on more than one occasion when they would be leaving to go to the match. They decided to leave at 14.20 hrs approx, and it was then apparent they were too late for the escort to the ground.

That is by and larger their account, however the WMP for whatever reason decided to round them up, my guess is that A&S Police reported the fact they did not leave when they were offered an escort, thus making them outside the safety 'bubble' to the ground.

If this account is wrong I will be happy to hear the 'victims' account, but remember these controls are well coordinated  and are supervised from a control point.

Yes I think the Police should be accountable, and they are, and also face prosecution as any other citizen  

But I m very guarded when such complaints as this can if prosecuted can have a detrimental effect on Policing in general, we already have a rather toothless Police that seem to be hog tied by all sorts of rights given to the criminal that can hinder successful prosecutions.

The lads involved surely would have realised the the possible problems in travelling to Birmingham on match day, and personally I don't think drinking in a pub so late in the day was that clever, but of course a few beers can change perceptions, we all know that. Add to the reputation the WMP have , it was a possibly bordering on being careless, but as I said a few beers change perceptions.

Like I say we have by and large a very tolerant Police, other countries are far less so.           

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16 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said:

Well there are plenty of comments made on here that is very much anti Police in tone, just look through and see for yourself. I am certainly not going to copy them. 

The complaints that have been made are specific in that apparently the lads involved were merely drinking in a pub, and were expecting to have a Police escort to the ground when they decided to leave the Pub. They mentioned that riot vans were parked outside the Pub for  sometime, whilst they were there. Avon and Somerset Police we are told asked them on more than one occasion when they would be leaving to go to the match. They decided to leave at 14.20 hrs approx, and it was then apparent they were too late for the escort to the ground.

That is by and larger their account, however the WMP for whatever reason decided to round them up, my guess is that A&S Police reported the fact they did not leave when they were offered an escort, thus making them outside the safety 'bubble' to the ground.

If this account is wrong I will be happy to hear the 'victims' account, but remember these controls are well coordinated  and are supervised from a control point.

Yes I think the Police should be accountable, and they are, and also face prosecution as any other citizen  

But I m very guarded when such complaints as this can if prosecuted can have a detrimental effect on Policing in general, we already have a rather toothless Police that seem to be hog tied by all sorts of rights given to the criminal that can hinder successful prosecutions.

The lads involved surely would have realised the the possible problems in travelling to Birmingham on match day, and personally I don't think drinking in a pub so late in the day was that clever, but of course a few beers can change perceptions, we all know that. Add to the reputation the WMP have , it was a possibly bordering on being careless, but as I said a few beers change perceptions.

Like I say we have by and large a very tolerant Police, other countries are far less so.           

My observations are limited as to what I can say as this is an ongoing matter.

however I can say that speculation as to what happened on the day like this does not help .This comment is incorrectly speculating on something that did not happen . The only people who know what happened are those who were there at the time, and it is those accounts only that should be listened to. 

it is best to await any court case/ offcial release when the actual facts will be available for everyone to then read and digest further. 

 

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10 minutes ago, JulieH said:

My observations are limited as to what I can say as this is an ongoing matter.

however I can say that speculation as to what happened on the day like this does not help .This comment is incorrectly speculating on something that did not happen . The only people who know what happened are those who were there at the time, and it is those accounts only that should be listened to. 

it is best to await any court case/ offcial release when the actual facts will be available for everyone to then read and digest further. 

 

Always good to hear it straight from....oops, I can't say that, can I?

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Out of interest (before I decide to donate) why did it take 18 months to complain about this and what have WMP offered up as an explanation for their actions since the complaint?

Appears to me that if the they (and their legal representatives ) are sure of their case they need not worry about the costs.  

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2 minutes ago, reddevon said:

Out of interest (before I decide to donate) why did it take 18 months to complain about this and what have WMP offered up as an explanation for their actions since the complaint?

Appears to me that if the they (and their legal representatives ) are sure of their case they need not worry about the costs.  

They complained ages ago, this seems to have ran on and on

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27 minutes ago, reddevon said:

Out of interest (before I decide to donate) why did it take 18 months to complain about this and what have WMP offered up as an explanation for their actions since the complaint?

Appears to me that if the they (and their legal representatives ) are sure of their case they need not worry about the costs.  

This has been a live case for 3 years. We wrote about it on our website in October 2015.

WMP appear to have been dragging it out for as long as possible. Perhaps they hoped everyone would get bored and go away.

We won't.

Donations can be made here or here.

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9 hours ago, reddevon said:

Out of interest (before I decide to donate) why did it take 18 months to complain about this and what have WMP offered up as an explanation for their actions since the complaint?

Appears to me that if the they (and their legal representatives ) are sure of their case they need not worry about the costs.  

Ever been involved in a protracted legal case?  Key word is protracted.  Police drag their heels when the focus is on them because, well, who is going to make them do anything..

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