red from the blue side Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 Looking at the line ups and attendances from the last two nights ( bar Everton), is it time to end this competition. I know last year was amazing for us, but given the prize money available I can't see the incentive. When even league one teams are fielding under strength sides it surely can't carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBFC II Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 3 minutes ago, red from the blue side said: Looking at the line ups and attendances from the last two nights ( bar Everton), is it time to end this competition. I know last year was amazing for us, but given the prize money available I can't see the incentive. When even league one teams are fielding under strength sides it surely can't carry on. The fact exeter played academy players when away at Premier league Fulham says alot... I think it should still be kept, provides league 1 and 2 clubs the chance to visit stadiums they don't normally get to visit (such as rovers at qpr) and it provides clubs with the opportunity to try out n different players in a competitive match Just now, ziderheadarmy said: Yeah it’s conpletly lost it’s credability even prem clubs who make the final field second strings. I would look to scrap it which might help teams focus more on the FA Cup and save that before it goes the same way. I would also hold the semi finals either over two legs (home and away) or at a neutral ground (not Wembley that should be saved for the final) ideally in a location if possible roughly the same distance for both sides. Grounds that could be used - Emerities, New spurs ground, old Trafford, Villa Park, Eithed. The semi finals are already over 2 legs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 Keep it. Last season against United was one of the best moments ever being a City fan. Who cares what Premier League teams think of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red from the blue side Posted August 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 It's not about what Prem teams think about it. The fact that teams in the bottom tier (didn't know about Exeter) are fielding weaker sides says it all. Again last year was amazing but even when we played Stoke and Palace it was nowhere near a full house or a full strength team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The turtle Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 9 minutes ago, JBFC II said: The fact exeter played academy players when away at Premier league Fulham says alot... I think it should still be kept, provides league 1 and 2 clubs the chance to visit stadiums they don't normally get to visit (such as rovers at qpr) and it provides clubs with the opportunity to try out n different players in a competitive match The semi finals are already over 2 legs? he means the fa cup 4 minutes ago, ziderheadarmy said: Not in this millennium my friend we don’t even have replays now is straight to extra time and pens at Wembley! he thinks you mean the league cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBFC II Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 5 minutes ago, ziderheadarmy said: Not in this millennium my friend we don’t even have replays now is straight to extra time and pens at Wembley! Thought you were talking about the league cup, sorry haha. Having the fa Cup semi finals at Wembley completely ruins it, Wembley is now overused massively and has gone from being somewhere were it is a once in a lifetime place to see your team to being a regular occurrence for even some league one sides... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red from the blue side Posted August 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 I agree this could help keep the FA cup special. Hopefully if the FA sell Wembley, semi finals will return to proper venues. Although they will never be played on the same Saturday at 3:00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 I'm not sure how you'd get down to the required number of teams but I'd be interested in the concept of playing a group stage. They use it for EFL trophy but no one gives a shit about that comp. it then makes it something different to the FA Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 Keep the league cup and bin the Paint Pot, well, that could work but you stop (possibly) a league 1 or 2 side from a lucrative day out. Why not have a top 2 division cup and keep the JPT, this would give clubs a choice as to how seriously they took it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydneybcfc Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 I'd prefer to see some kind of home nations cup. Prem have Europe and the FA cup, even lower Prem teams are more interested in survival in the moneyland than winning the League Cup. L1 and 2 have the Paint Pot Cup, FA cup. Ones a chance to get to Wembley the other a chance to pull some big names. Finally Championship could have the FA cup and a home nations cup, id see the home nations as including the Championship and SPL, maybe a playoff between the Welsh and Irish teams? Not really sure but either way something a bit different than a poor FA cup clone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buster Footman's T shirt Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 I think it should be for EFL teams only. Scrap the nonsense that the EFL trophy has become. Keep the final at Wembley but maybe the competition winners get into the qualifying draw for the Europa League. Be great to see some championship teams in European competition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 bring in a rule similar to the paint pot trophy that a team Must field at least 6 players who started the previous game and fine teams who don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 31 minutes ago, Buster Footman's T shirt said: I think it should be for EFL teams only. Scrap the nonsense that the EFL trophy has become. Keep the final at Wembley but maybe the competition winners get into the qualifying draw for the Europa League. Be great to see some championship teams in European competition It would be good in theory but they would just bomb out like Burnley(down 3-1 I think tough job to come back) after a round or two and that is without the resources Burnley have. I would keep it. The arguments about attendances and changed teams are valid. That said, these games also provide opportunity. Younger players usually get a chance to impress in front of a crowd. We get to see some different venues. It is nice to play in some matches without the pressure of the league(not the players but me!). I enjoy it, especially the early rounds. The FA Cup is great but it comes on the heels of the Christmas fixture congestion amd is often used as a rest game for key players. Keep both I say. Just need to realise staying in the prem or being promoted will always come first to any team. As long as that is the case with the money being dished out then the cups will be secondary. Only way to change it is to offer up more money for winning a round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 EFL trophy should be L1/2 teams only. The introduction of Premiership "reserve" teams takes the piss really. I won't go over it all again, but I've made my feelings known a few times about the way this should be seen. In a nutshell - it's a tournament where lower league clubs can win a piece of silverware, and get a day out at Wembley. The lower rounds are usually poorly attended though, and the introduction of the big names was an attempt at boosting attendances. It's fell flat on its face. As for the rest, back in the 90s the League cup was nicknamed "The Mickey Mouse Cup" purely for the fact that the bigger sides always tended to field weaker teams. This in turn gave the sides who would normally not do that well a chance to progress, or even win it. Remember Leicester winning it once (maybe twice) when they were a lower-mid table Prem club, and clubs like Middlesborough would normally do quite well because they'd field as strong a side as possible because it was their chance to win a major trophy. The FA Cup was seen as THE tournament. Possibly still is by some, but for others the prestige has now been lost. This wasn't helped by the fact that Man Utd went to play in the World Club Cup on the back of their 99 treble win. As it coincided with the start of the FA Cup for the Prem teams in January, the FA weren't happy about it, wouldn't accommodate any movement/delay in the 3rd round tie, and said that they couldn't field a reserve team, as it would "go against tradition". United went to the World Cup, dropped the FA Cup that year (As the current holders), and I think since then clubs have looked at it as a bit of an inconvenience. Nice if you do well, otherwise what's the point - everyone plays reserve teams now. Since Man Utds forfeiture, I've read/saw interviews where Fergie basically said that they were told that Man Utds participation in this World Club Cup, would look favourably on England's bid to hold one of the upcoming tournaments. They were "strongly advised" that the club SHOULD participate, even if it meant dropping the FA Cup. That worked out well didn't it. Leave the cups alone as they currently are. It works, and if the bigger clubs want to play reserve teams, then it means that clubs like us get the chance to progress further in these competitions. Look back to last year's cup run - I'd hardly say that the Man Utd team we knocked out were full of reserve team players in the traditional sense!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gl1 Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 9 hours ago, red from the blue side said: Looking at the line ups and attendances from the last two nights ( bar Everton), is it time to end this competition. I know last year was amazing for us, but given the prize money available I can't see the incentive. When even league one teams are fielding under strength sides it surely can't carry on. It’s a load of pants till you get through to the latter stages and pull one of the big boys. Then it’s greeeeeaaat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydneybcfc Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Buster Footman's T shirt said: I think it should be for EFL teams only. Scrap the nonsense that the EFL trophy has become. Keep the final at Wembley but maybe the competition winners get into the qualifying draw for the Europa League. Be great to see some championship teams in European competition Isn't the problem that Europe doesn't want lower league teams? I thought they'd already changed it so only the winner gets into Europe and if they already qualified another way the place goes to the next highest finishing prem team and not the runner up like it used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 58 minutes ago, gl1 said: It’s a load of pants till you get through to the latter stages and pull one of the big boys. Then it’s greeeeeaaat So keep the paint pot for the two lower divisions and just have a cup ( can’t be the League cup as it’s not all the leagues) for the Premiership and Championship? Have a place in Europe at stake and everyone would sit up a bit. In fact you can have paint pot winner vs New Cup winner for that European place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjak Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 Most definitely in the FA Cup they must stop having the semis at Wembley, as it devalues the Final.............stupid idea by money grabbing football league?. Get in a decent sponsor, and up the prize money. Surely there has to be any number of ideas and incentives that the organisers can come up with to make it more high profile?..... middle management need to up their game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 11 hours ago, hodge said: I'm not sure how you'd get down to the required number of teams but I'd be interested in the concept of playing a group stage. They use it for EFL trophy but no one gives a shit about that comp. it then makes it something different to the FA Cup. Very quickly thought up idea to make a group work. Round 1- Championship, League 1, and League 2 18 groups of 4, top 2 of each group goes through. Each team plays each other once. (Secondary Idea to decide home/away, lowest ranked team based on previous seasons finish is at home. This does mean one team has 3 home games and one has 3 away games, but an idea to help the lower sides as groups are tougher for them than a 1 off match- otherwise a coin toss or seeding prior to the draw). 36 teams progress to Round 2 Round 2- Premier League and successful Round 1 sides. 14 groups of 4. Winner of each group progresses, group played the same as Round 1. 2 best runners up also go through (likely to be a goal difference decider because of so many groups. Round 3 onwards straight knockout. Round 4- quarter finals Round 5- Semi finals Round 5- Final. Not perfect by any means, but had a go at making it into a group tournament. Was literally done in 2 minutes, so don't be too harsh in your criticism! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFCGav Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 It’s hard enough to win a trophy as is, and that’s what football is about, winning silverware. It’s a good competition, and a good chance for a team outside the ‘big 6’ to win major silverware. Keep it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
city1983 Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 5 hours ago, Taz said: EFL trophy should be L1/2 teams only. The introduction of Premiership "reserve" teams takes the piss really. I won't go over it all again, but I've made my feelings known a few times about the way this should be seen. In a nutshell - it's a tournament where lower league clubs can win a piece of silverware, and get a day out at Wembley. The lower rounds are usually poorly attended though, and the introduction of the big names was an attempt at boosting attendances. It's fell flat on its face. As for the rest, back in the 90s the League cup was nicknamed "The Mickey Mouse Cup" purely for the fact that the bigger sides always tended to field weaker teams. This in turn gave the sides who would normally not do that well a chance to progress, or even win it. Remember Leicester winning it once (maybe twice) when they were a lower-mid table Prem club, and clubs like Middlesborough would normally do quite well because they'd field as strong a side as possible because it was their chance to win a major trophy. The FA Cup was seen as THE tournament. Possibly still is by some, but for others the prestige has now been lost. This wasn't helped by the fact that Man Utd went to play in the World Club Cup on the back of their 99 treble win. As it coincided with the start of the FA Cup for the Prem teams in January, the FA weren't happy about it, wouldn't accommodate any movement/delay in the 3rd round tie, and said that they couldn't field a reserve team, as it would "go against tradition". United went to the World Cup, dropped the FA Cup that year (As the current holders), and I think since then clubs have looked at it as a bit of an inconvenience. Nice if you do well, otherwise what's the point - everyone plays reserve teams now. Since Man Utds forfeiture, I've read/seen interviews where Fergie basically said that they were told that Man Utds participation in this World Club Cup, would look favourably on England's bid to hold one of the upcoming tournaments. They were "strongly advised" that the club SHOULD participate, even if it meant dropping the FA Cup. That worked out well didn't it. Leave the cups alone as they currently are. It works, and if the bigger clubs want to play reserve teams, then it means that clubs like us get the chance to progress further in these competitions. Look back to last year's cup run - I'd hardly say that the Man Utd team we knocked out were full of reserve team players in the traditional sense!! corrected for you. bit of work needed on your past participles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 13 hours ago, red from the blue side said: Looking at the line ups and attendances from the last two nights ( bar Everton), is it time to end this competition. I know last year was amazing for us, but given the prize money available I can't see the incentive. When even league one teams are fielding under strength sides it surely can't carry on. Some possibilities to improve matters ? 1- Make the early rounds pre the league season like the Europa cup qualifiers and tone down a bit on the friendlies. Teams may not like missing the lucrative far east, US etc "tournaments", but those clubs have big enough squads to cover both anyway. 2. Make those early games saturday 3pm fixtures to maximise away support. 3. Impose a compulsory attendance price across the board, or give free tickets to under 11's and very very cheap tickets to under 18's OAP's and people with disabilities 4. If the aim is to give lower league teams the chance to play at a top stadium and encourage large one off support then make all Prem and Champ clubs have home draws. Conversely if some cup upsets are welcomed then make all of them play away. 5. Regionalise the early rounds if the games continue to be played midweek. We all know what a bastard it is getting anywhere and do a Monday to Friday job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
city1983 Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Loon plage said: Some possibilities to improve matters ? 1- Make the early rounds pre the league season like the Europa cup qualifiers and tone down a bit on the friendlies. Teams may not like missing the lucrative far east, US etc "tournaments", but those clubs have big enough squads to cover both anyway. 2. Make those early games saturday 3pm fixtures to maximise away support. 3. Impose a compulsory attendance price across the board, or give free tickets to under 11's and very very cheap tickets to under 18's OAP's and people with disabilities 4. If the aim is to give lower league teams the chance to play at a top stadium and encourage large one off support then make all Prem and Champ clubs have home draws. Conversely if some cup upsets are welcomed then make all of them play away. 5. Regionalise the early rounds if the games continue to be played midweek. We all know what a bastard it is getting anywhere and do a Monday to Friday job. I like those ideas. First 2 rounds say. Those in europe miss the first 2 rounds anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gl1 Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 9 hours ago, RedM said: So keep the paint pot for the two lower divisions and just have a cup ( can’t be the League cup as it’s not all the leagues) for the Premiership and Championship? Have a place in Europe at stake and everyone would sit up a bit. In fact you can have paint pot winner vs New Cup winner for that European place. I’d go for thar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judda Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 I personally think its still good. It's very useful for second string players to get a run out and we got to see some brilliant players last season... great for the young English players trying to break through to the 1st team too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Judda said: I personally think its still good. It's very useful for second string players to get a run out and we got to see some brilliant players last season... great for the young English players trying to break through to the 1st team too... The counter argument is that the ‘bigger’ clubs put out weakened teams full of mostly youngsters and that hugely devalues the competition. It is the third valued competition or fourth in the case of those clubs in European competitions. As clubs progress then the sides they put out increase in strength. I’d like see the bigger clubs having to field their strongest teams to add credibility to the early rounds or being only permitted to use the players they fielded in the early rounds if they progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sglosbcfc Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 We could do what Scotland have done, have the league cup as a pre season tournament in the early round instead of friendlies. The group winners are then joined by Scotland's European entry teams for the second round. The tournament is over in October/November and the first trophy won. The first round groups are regionalised and their is a team from every division so for example Group 1 - Cardiff, Bristol City, Bristol Rovers, Plymouth and Exeter. One downside, our July police bill may be a tad higher than if we were playing Bitton! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judda Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Robbored said: The counter argument is that the ‘bigger’ clubs put out weakened teams full of mostly youngsters and that hugely devalues the competition. It is the third valued competition or fourth in the case of those clubs in European competitions. As clubs progress then the sides they put out increase in strength. I’d like see the bigger clubs having to field their strongest teams to add credibility to the early rounds or being only permitted to use the players they fielded in the early rounds if they progress. Or at least a percentage... Maybe 5 players from last league game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22A Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 Clubs are also fielding weakened teams in the Checkatrade Trophy, so that could go as well. The attendances at soemof the early rounds suggest it's a money losing event for the home team having to open turnstiles and turn on floodlights etc. In the early 70s Man C(?) fielded a weakened team for a Texaco Cup tie against a Scottish club. They were fined and barred from the competition not by the FA or the league, but by the sponsors. They claimed the weakened team devalued the competition and insulted Texaco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lack of Action Man Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 Several options: Make it a Premiership and Championship competition only. Make it a 'Football League' competition only - no prem involvement, and get rid of the LDV/JPT. Change the format. Scrap altogether. I'd probably go for option 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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