Jump to content

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums by signing in or creating an account.

  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Full access to all forums (not all viewable as guest)
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members.
  • Support OTIB with a premium membership

The Dolman Pragmatist

2008 play-off final - what if?

Recommended Posts

Just noticed that highlights of the 2008 play-off final against Hull are on Sky Sports football at 2.00 today (Thursday 30th August).  I’ve never watched the highlights - up to now couldn’t bear to see it again - but given it’s more than ten years ago, maybe I’ll give it a go today.

It set me wondering though where we would be today if we’d won that match.  Anyone like to have a go at a counterfactual scenario for the past decade, following a win against Hull?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would imagine would have done pretty much what Hull did. Just stayed up, down the next. Bounced back to Prem a few years later only to find ourselves back in the Championship once again. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To answer the OP's question - I suspect the financial platform it would have given us would have enabled us to compete more consistently at the top end of the Championship / lower end of the Prem, perhaps yo-yoing at bit.  Assuming the stadium redevelopment happened in the same way it did in reality, I wonder if our attendances might also be even higher than they are now, having drawn in a number of new supporters thanks to a spell in the top division.  A bit of a guess, but if we'd been lower Prem / top end Champ for the last 10 years, I could see us averaging maybe 25-26k.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An interesting question and don’t disagree with much of what Chippenham red said above however what I do think is that if we were promoted in the near future we’d probably be better set up to compete in the prem although I’m not sure I’d be confident of success!!!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing people forget is that ffp didn’t exsist then and the billionaire club owners were limited to chelsea with Manchester City then being bought at the end of that august.

At the time we would of had considerable spending power compared to many in the top flight... if SL had thrown money at it. He chucked a load (in championship terms) at it the season after even though we didn’t go up sithere is no reason to think he wouldnt of spent more if we had gone up.

The record English transfer fee at the time was around 30 million. So plenty of decent top half players to be had at the 5-10 million mark.

Assuming the stadium was still redeveloped or was built at Ashton vale (premier league clubs tend to get their own way more often...) theres no reason that we couldnt have got by when ffp was eventually introduced.

Basically i believe we would either still be there as fairly successful top 10 club.... Or it would have all gone tits up and we would currently be trying to work our way back up the leagues....

As we are Bristol City it would almost certainly be the latter.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, cider-manc said:

The thing people forget is that ffp didn’t exsist then and the billionaire club owners were limited to chelsea with Manchester City then being bought at the end of that august.

At the time we would of had considerable spending power compared to many in the top flight... if SL had thrown money at it. He chucked a load (in championship terms) at it the season after even though we didn’t go up sithere is no reason to think he wouldnt of spent more if we had gone up.

The record English transfer fee at the time was around 30 million. So plenty of decent top half players to be had at the 5-10 million mark.

Assuming the stadium was still redeveloped or was built at Ashton vale (premier league clubs tend to get their own way more often...) theres no reason that we couldnt have got by when ffp was eventually introduced.

Basically i believe we would either still be there as fairly successful top 10 club.... Or it would have all gone tits up and we would currently be trying to work our way back up the leagues....

As we are Bristol City it would almost certainly be the latter.....

no we really didn't lansdown was worth 400 million then not 1.3 billion he is now,

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we'd have come straight back down again, mainly because Johnson Snr. Would have bought the best of the best from the Championship, and a few older players at the end of their Premiership careers, rather than spending big and going for it.

The following season we would have kept most of the Premiership squad together, and as we had previously bought the best of the Championship players available, would have stormed the League and be crowned champions by around Easter time. 

Uncle Steve, fearing that we would get relegated again the following season, moved Johnson Snr. into the DOF role, and got in Mr Moyes. We'd then go on and finish mid table in Moyes' first season, and narrowly lose the FA Cup final on penalties. The next season we start well, and end up top of the league by Christmas. LJ is moved into the managers office, after Moyes left due to the constant stalking of @RedM (not to be seen again for 6 months).

LJ wins his first couple of games, but then goes on one of his "bad runs". Uncle Steve then fears the worse, remembering the previous relegation, sacks both Johnson's, and then puts the club up for sale.

Roman Abramovich then decides to sell Chelsea, buy Bristol City, and then turn it into a worldwide juggernaught, dwarfing Barcelona and Real Madrid, making Poch the manager (much to Tottenhams disgust) signs Messi, Ronaldo and Bale, and the rest as they say, is history.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We would have won the FA Cup in 2009, the league title in 2010 and the Champions League in 2011. GJ would've been promoted to tekky director in 2012 along with SL selling BCFC to a group of Brazilian business men. We immediately get relegated and in 2014 realise we have replicated what we did between 1980 and 1982. The good news out of all of this though is that we still finished above Rovers.....which apparently to some is the most important.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I genuinely think we'd have done a better job than Hull.

Promotion would've acted like a catalyst for Ashton Vale/Ashton Gate to have been developed earlier.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Taz said:

I think we'd have come straight back down again, mainly because Johnson Snr. Would have bought the best of the best from the Championship, and a few older players at the end of their Premiership careers, rather than spending big and going for it.

The following season we would have kept most of the Premiership squad together, and as we had previously bought the best of the Championship players available, would have stormed the League and be crowned champions by around Easter time. 

Uncle Steve, fearing that we would get relegated again the following season, moved Johnson Snr. into the DOF role, and got in Mr Moyes. We'd then go on and finish mid table in Moyes' first season, and narrowly lose the FA Cup final on penalties. The next season we start well, and end up top of the league by Christmas. LJ is moved into the managers office, after Moyes left due to the constant stalking of @RedM (not to be seen again for 6 months).

LJ wins his first couple of games, but then goes on one of his "bad runs". Uncle Steve then fears the worse, remembering the previous relegation, sacks both Johnson's, and then puts the club up for sale.

Roman Abramovich then decides to sell Chelsea, buy Bristol City, and then turn it into a worldwide juggernaught, dwarfing Barcelona and Real Madrid, making Poch the manager (much to Tottenhams disgust) signs Messi, Ronaldo and Bale, and the rest as they say, is history.

I’m not sure if that makes me responsible for our downfall or uprise :laugh:, but oh for the chance to have found out. 😍

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What’s gone is gone. That Hill game will always be too painful for me to watch again, but I genuinely believe that we weren’t ready to embrace the premier league back then. 

Now we are, if the chance comes around again. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, RedM said:

I’m not sure if that makes me responsible for our downfall or uprise :laugh:, but oh for the chance to have found out. 😍

To be honest I just needed to think of a reason why Moyes would have left. As good a reason as any I thought 😅

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Based on what exactly?  Absolutely nothing by any chance?

Because I believe we weren't ready. We would've gone up, then straight back down in a time of insignificant parachute payments, would've still been in debt to SL, would've faced back to back relegation after the majority of players leave, then SL would be less inclined to invest. Similar to Blackpool

  • Aubergine 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Straight back down after 1 season because the squad wasn't anywhere near good enough. Then:

GJ is sacked after a poor start back in the Championship.

Millen performs well as caretaker but Lansdown hires Steve Coppell in an attempt to get straight back up.

Coppell gives up after a couple of matches because the job is harder than he thought. Millen gets the job permanently.

Millen signs Jon Stead and Brett Pitman but the team generally struggles. He's sacked and replaced by promising Scottish manager Derek McInnes.

McInnes signs half of Scotland before finding out that none of them are any good at football. He's sacked and replaced by Sean O'Driscoll.

City are relegated to League One.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

To answer the OP's question - I suspect the financial platform it would have given us would have enabled us to compete more consistently at the top end of the Championship / lower end of the Prem, perhaps yo-yoing at bit.  Assuming the stadium redevelopment happened in the same way it did in reality, I wonder if our attendances might also be even higher than they are now, having drawn in a number of new supporters thanks to a spell in the top division.  A bit of a guess, but if we'd been lower Prem / top end Champ for the last 10 years, I could see us averaging maybe 25-26k.

With Senior in charge we’d  have been relegated after one season with fewer points than the 18 Derby managed, regardless of the finances.

His one dimensional management style simply wouldn’t have been up to it. 

  • Aubergine 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Robbored said:

With Senior in charge we’d  have been relegated after one season with fewer points than the 18 Derby managed, regardless of the finances.

His one dimensional management style simply wouldn’t have been up to it. 

To quote a famous Disney song “ Let it go.....”

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would hope we would have used the money to really establish and improve the club in the Championship and build a platform as other teams have done. However I really don't think we were ready for promotion and it might have meant we had persisted with an outdated infrastructure behind the scenes for far longer whereas I think the club has been massively professionalised in recent years through learning through mistakes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, cider-manc said:

The thing people forget is that ffp didn’t exsist then and the billionaire club owners were limited to chelsea with Manchester City then being bought at the end of that august.

At the time we would of had considerable spending power compared to many in the top flight... if SL had thrown money at it. He chucked a load (in championship terms) at it the season after even though we didn’t go up sithere is no reason to think he wouldnt of spent more if we had gone up.

The record English transfer fee at the time was around 30 million. So plenty of decent top half players to be had at the 5-10 million mark.

Assuming the stadium was still redeveloped or was built at Ashton vale (premier league clubs tend to get their own way more often...) theres no reason that we couldnt have got by when ffp was eventually introduced.

Basically i believe we would either still be there as fairly successful top 10 club.... Or it would have all gone tits up and we would currently be trying to work our way back up the leagues....

As we are Bristol City it would almost certainly be the latter.....

I recall a BBC article stating that Lansdown was prepared to spend £40m in the summer of 2008 if City got promoted. That was a lot of money back then. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Chairman Mao said:

I recall a BBC article stating that Lansdown was prepared to spend £40m in the summer of 2008 if City got promoted. That was a lot of money back then. 

That sounds about right. In which case, this gives us some idea what we could have got for our money:

wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_football_transfers_summer_2008

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s also interesting to compare our current situation with that of Hull. I might be completely wrong because I don’t know that much about them (are they one of those clubs with bonkers owners?) but it seems like once they got promoted it gave them a boost for a while and they spent a couple of seasons as a yo-yo club... but 10 years later seem to be just a middling Championship club with no better chance of promotion than us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just watched the highlights.  I’d forgotten just how much we dominated that game - my god, we should have won.  The list of ‘what ifs’ go on and on: if only Jamie McCombe hadn’t been taken ill (was he nobbled?); if only the medical team had spotted that Bradley was seriously injured and subbed him straight away; if only GJ had brought on Vasko and moved Louis to RB, leaving Marvin in midfield;  if only Trundle or Adebola had taken one of their numerous chances; if only we hadn’t frozen when it really mattered...

Edited by The Dolman Pragmatist

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Just watched the highlights.  I’d forgotten just how much we dominated that game - my god, we should have won.  The list of ‘what ifs’ go on and on: if only Jamie McCombe hadn’t been taken ill (was he nobbled?); if only the medical team had spotted that Bradley was seriously injured and subbed him straight away; if only GJ had brought on Vasko and moved Louis to RB, leaving Marvin in midfield;  if only Trundle or Adebola had taken one of their numerous chances; if only we hadn’t frozen when it really mattered...

Agree.. was a great chance to get into the topflight.. still pains me to even talk about it to be honest!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Robbored said:

With Senior in charge we’d  have been relegated after one season with fewer points than the 18 Derby managed, regardless of the finances.

His one dimensional management style simply wouldn’t have been up to it. 

Rubbish.

  • Hmmm 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Robbored said:

With Senior in charge we’d  have been relegated after one season with fewer points than the 18 Derby managed, regardless of the finances.

His one dimensional management style simply wouldn’t have been up to it. 

I've seen plenty of your posts that I've considered to be rubbish, but this one earns you a very special badge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Robbored said:

We’ll never know will we..........

How strange.....you were adamant we would have been relegated just now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Monkeh said:

no we really didn't lansdown was worth 400 million then not 1.3 billion he is now,

I honestly thought it was more than that. Having looked it up, according to the times, it was 338 million.

I still believe we would have been able to compete in transfers with at least half the divison.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, RedLionLad said:

I've seen plenty of your posts that I've considered to be rubbish, but this one earns you a very special badge.

As you don’t like my posts then take the tip I gave you last time you got pissed off - simply put me on ignore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't dawn on the past. For all we know we could have had a dreadful season, before being sold to a bunch of American investors and dropping down in the lower leagues, ending with us on the brink of the conference or being almost wound up. We will never know. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Possibly the biggest what if moment in the clubs recent history, and it's still painful to think about.

I tend to think we'd have come straight back. Realistically, how many of that team could have cut it in the Premier League? Only Bradley Orr managed to establish himself at that level. Carey, Marvin Elliott and Noble might have given it a go but we probably would have needed to sign a whole new team to compete. Whether Johnson could have built such a team is doubtful in my eyes, given how in the next few years we regressed badly despite significant financial backing.
 

Edited by Wanderingred

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Robbored said:

As you don’t like my posts then take the tip I gave you last time you got pissed off - simply put me on ignore.

I love your posts. I think most of them are hilarious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, RedLionLad said:

I love your posts. I think most of them are hilarious.

Give me a humorous icon then...........I like them.

  • Unicorn 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, BCFC_Dan said:

Straight back down after 1 season because the squad wasn't anywhere near good enough. Then:

GJ is sacked after a poor start back in the Championship.

Millen performs well as caretaker but Lansdown hires Steve Coppell in an attempt to get straight back up.

Coppell gives up after a couple of matches because the job is harder than he thought. Millen gets the job permanently.

Millen signs Jon Stead and Brett Pitman but the team generally struggles. He's sacked and replaced by promising Scottish manager Derek McInnes.

McInnes signs half of Scotland before finding out that none of them are any good at football. He's sacked and replaced by Sean O'Driscoll.

City are relegated to League One.

Then what? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, STeveOELlis said:

Because I believe we weren't ready. We would've gone up, then straight back down in a time of insignificant parachute payments, would've still been in debt to SL, would've faced back to back relegation after the majority of players leave, then SL would be less inclined to invest. Similar to Blackpool

With respect, I think that’s total rubbish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Just watched the highlights.  I’d forgotten just how much we dominated that game - my god, we should have won.  The list of ‘what ifs’ go on and on: if only Jamie McCombe hadn’t been taken ill (was he nobbled?); if only the medical team had spotted that Bradley was seriously injured and subbed him straight away; if only GJ had brought on Vasko and moved Louis to RB, leaving Marvin in midfield;  if only Trundle or Adebola had taken one of their numerous chances; if only we hadn’t frozen when it really mattered...

The one that sticks with me was Trundle firing over the bar from close range at our end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Robbored said:

With Senior in charge we’d  have been relegated after one season with fewer points than the 18 Derby managed, regardless of the finances.

His one dimensional management style simply wouldn’t have been up to it. 

Idiot.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Robbored said:

With Senior in charge we’d  have been relegated after one season with fewer points than the 18 Derby managed, regardless of the finances.

His one dimensional management style simply wouldn’t have been up to it. 

Feb 13 2006 you called Gary Johnson a Conference Manager and claimed..... "My prediction is that he'll take us down if he doesn't swallow his pride."

Well, here's a reminder of what happened:

April 2006 He was Manager of the Month.

We didn't get relegated.

March 2007 - He was Manager of the Month

That season he went 18 games unbeaten

May 5 2007 - He got us promoted to the Championship.

2007-2008 - We were top six for most of the season and reached the Play Offs.....and won through to the final.

He got us to within 90 minutes of the Premiership.


My point here is, you haven't got a ******* clue what you're talking about.

  • Like 2
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, cider-manc said:

I honestly thought it was more than that. Having looked it up, according to the times, it was 338 million.

I still believe we would have been able to compete in transfers with at least half the divison.

no i don't we could pay the fees perhaps but players wouldn't of come here, we'd of had to grab the best the championship had to offer,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, RedLionLad said:

My point here is, you haven't got a ******* clue what you're talking about.

My point is that it’s my opinion on Senior based of different elements other than his results.

Im quite aware that I’m in the minority with that view but  it’s old hat these days.and I can’t be arsed to regurgitate it all again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Robbored said:

My point is that it’s my opinion on Senior based of different elements other than his results.

Im quite aware that I’m in the minority with that view but  it’s old hat these days.and I can’t be arsed to regurgitate it all again.

Apart from this thread 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Robbored said:

My point is that it’s my opinion on Senior based of different elements other than his results.

Im quite aware that I’m in the minority with that view but  it’s old hat these days.and I can’t be arsed to regurgitate it all again.

bitter and twisted still after he made a fool of you I see

  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...