So comfy in the concourse

[Rich]

6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Unconvinced by seats for various reasons outlined by people on this thread- however quite agree that shelves would/should be feasible.

With all due respect, every reason suggested on this thread as to why there should not be seating within the concourse, has been proven to be unfounded speculation by negative posters, predominantly you and Ashton Park. From spurious claims that there could be spontaneous combustion of seats, to there not being room, to wooden shelves being a fire hazzard, to it needing to be a sterile area. It's all rubbish, there is room without causing congestion, there are wooden seats and shelves at Anfield, plastic seats at Burton and Derby in relatively narrow concourses in comparison to AG, specific areas set aside for seating at Anfield and Spurs, seats at Wembley, seats at West Ham. The real reason there are no seats or shelves is, the club haven't seriously considered applying for permission to put them in, why that is we can only speculate, I would suggest that it may be something to do with the events they hold within the concourse, and needing a blank canvas to work with.

Fortunately, it's not you who would need persuading to install seats, otherwise it wouldn't happen because, someone wasn't convinced of the need. Try telling that to the chap on crutches, the man with spondylitis, the person with one arm/leg, the pregnant woman, the person with mobility problems, the older supporter or any ambulant disabled person for that matter.

[Mr Popodopolous]

32 minutes ago, Rich said:

With all due respect, every reason suggested on this thread as to why there should not be seating within the concourse, has been proven to be unfounded speculation by negative posters, predominantly you and Ashton Park. From spurious claims that there could be spontaneous combustion of seats, to there not being room, to wooden shelves being a fire hazzard, to it needing to be a sterile area. It's all rubbish, there is room without causing congestion, there are wooden seats and shelves at Anfield, plastic seats at Burton and Derby in relatively narrow concourses in comparison to AG, specific areas set aside for seating at Anfield and Spurs, seats at Wembley, seats at West Ham. The real reason there are no seats or shelves is, the club haven't seriously considered applying for permission to put them in, why that is we can only speculate, I would suggest that it may be something to do with the events they hold within the concourse, and needing a blank canvas to work with.

Fortunately, it's not you who would need persuading to install seats, otherwise it wouldn't happen because, someone wasn't convinced of the need. Try telling that to the chap on crutches, the man with spondylitis, the person with one arm/leg, the pregnant woman, the person with mobility problems, the older supporter or any ambulant disabled person for that matter.

Could sprinklers play a part?

By which I mean, negate the fire risk- fairly sure the concourse doesn't have (though I might be wrong) sprinklers except in key areas of vulnerability. This is because they might be set off easily. 

I'm not opposed to seats in principle, I have an open view on it- I'm just not fully sold- based on regulations, based on likelihood of success. 

Seats at West Ham- news to me? Seats at Wembley? That's Club Wembley concourse, which naturally is much smaller- it is not the main body of the concourse, the space to fans ratio is much lower of course. Club Wembley is a members only place.Anfield looks interesting, Burton and Derby were under different planning regs.

Still think taking up Mark Kelly's offer to meet him about it is the best route.- you can put your case to him, he can put his/the clubs case to you, and it could build from there- or be quashed owing to regulations.

Arguing on here about it, while interesting, is ultimately futile- we cannot influence anything, we're fans. It's the club and latterly- perhaps via the club- you need to try to convince about this. Personal view is that they will be sufficiently risk averse that seats won't happen, whereas Atyeo type shelves might be viable.

PS- Tottenham's ground has not opened on time. Part of it was due to fire regs/modelling not going according to plan apparently- maybe it was the seats?

[redcityman]

9 minutes ago, Rich said:

With all due respect, every reason suggested on this thread as to why there should not be seating within the concourse, has been proven to be unfounded speculation by negative posters, predominantly you and Ashton Park. From spurious claims that there could be spontaneous combustion of seats, to there not being room, to wooden shelves being a fire hazzard, to it needing to be a sterile area. It's all rubbish, there is room without causing congestion, there are wooden seats and shelves at Anfield, plastic seats at Burton and Derby in relatively narrow concourses in comparison to AG, specific areas set aside for seating at Anfield and Spurs, seats at Wembley, seats at West Ham. The real reason there are no seats or shelves is, the club haven't seriously considered applying for permission to put them in, why that is we can only speculate, I would suggest that it may be something to do with the events they hold within the concourse, and needing a blank canvas to work with.

Fortunately, it's not you who would need persuading to install seats, otherwise it wouldn't happen because, someone wasn't convinced of the need. Try telling that to the chap on crutches, the man with spondylitis, the person with one arm/leg, the pregnant woman, the person with mobility problems, the older supporter or any ambulant disabled person for that matter.

Your last paragraph sum it up in one for me, a lot of people unfortunately don't think of others only themselves.

For my self shelves wouldn't be enough although it would help able bodied fans which would be a start, but without being able to sit drinking a pint I would end up wasting half of it, the reason being i have several forms of arthritis one being Ankyolising  spondolytis which has left my spine fused, so no movement at all the lenght of my neck or back, also my neck tilts forward roughly 40 degrees downward, so when standing the bottom half of any vessel that holds the beverage of my choice is unobtainable.

A seat, any seat would solve the problem.

I'm sure I am not the only one with similar problems.

[WhistleHappy]

On ‎03‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 11:38, Super said:

 having somewhere to put your drink would be an improvement.

Stick to pints, … I'd hate to imagine the consequences of an unattended glass of spirits left on a shelf, BOOM!  

[Mr Popodopolous]

Right.

This may seem off topic, but does that concourse look to you spacious enough to put seats in? Watch the vid- my thinking is no.

Then picture a fire in there- people could easily, easily trip over seats in panic, then people who have gone down may get trampled because in a fire situation with a packed crowd in a concourse aka an enclosed space, it's every man for himself- computer modelling systems go out the window basically. Maybe there is a critical point at which computer modelling would diverge from reality.

[Rich]

Sprinklers would play a part to ex

20 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Right.

This may seem off topic, but does that concourse look to you spacious enough to put seats in? Watch the vid- my thinking is no.

Then picture a fire in there- people could easily, easily trip over seats in panic, then people who have gone down may get trampled because in a fire situation with a packed crowd in a concourse aka an enclosed space, it's every man for himself- computer modelling systems go out the window basically. Maybe there is a critical point at which computer modelling would diverge from reality.

I'll respond to this one first. If the concourse is not spacious enough to have seating, don't have it. Our concourse areas are spacious and I'm only suggesting some seating on the perimeter walls, which would not protrude any further than the existing columns protrude. They would fold up when not in use, are fire retardant to meet regs so would not cause congestion.

Any camera showing people straight in front of it does not accurately show the spaces. There are quite a few people walking through that area without too much of a problem, indicating there's more room than appears to be. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

18 minutes ago, Rich said:

Sprinklers would play a part to ex

I'll respond to this one first. If the concourse is not spacious enough to have seating, don't have it. Our concourse areas are spacious and I'm only suggesting some seating on the perimeter walls, which would not protrude any further than the existing columns protrude. They would fold up when not in use, are fire retardant to meet regs so would not cause congestion.

Any camera showing people straight in front of it does not accurately show the spaces. There are quite a few people walking through that area without too much of a problem, indicating there's more room than appears to be. 

Will concede it's hard to get a full picture from a minute long video, definitely.

it might work, it might be viable but the problem is it's impossible to say IMO. We've never seen our concourses full to capacity at the same time and therefore a best estimate can be made based on that.

I also believe the risk will be deemed too great by the safety bodies- because they plan for the worst case scenario. For example, no chips are available in a concourse that is sterile for example!  Yet in Sports Bar and Grill or whatever it is called now, with furnishings ets it's all okay! Hence those who decide these things will err on the side of (extreme)? caution I think- risk reduction to near zero.

See fire retardant- that sounds better. Problem is too, some have suggested old Dolman or Williams seats which I'm quite sure would be wooden, some have suggested plastic, and I think one suggestion was breeze blocks! All have significantly different capacity to withstand fire risk, or likelihood to combust unlikely though it would sound.

Maybe it will be feasible but I just cannot see it personally- if experts prove my view mistaken, that's no bad thing!

Sorry, missed your point about "Sprinklers would play a part to ex".

[Rich]

54 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Could sprinklers play a part?

By which I mean, negate the fire risk- fairly sure the concourse doesn't have (though I might be wrong) sprinklers except in key areas of vulnerability. This is because they might be set off easily. 

I'm not opposed to seats in principle, I have an open view on it- I'm just not fully sold- based on regulations, based on likelihood of success. 

Seats at West Ham- news to me? Seats at Wembley? That's Club Wembley concourse, which naturally is much smaller- it is not the main body of the concourse, the space to fans ratio is much lower of course. Club Wembley is a members only place.Anfield looks interesting, Burton and Derby were under different planning regs.

Still think taking up Mark Kelly's offer to meet him about it is the best route.- you can put your case to him, he can put his/the clubs case to you, and it could build from there- or be quashed owing to regulations.

Arguing on here about it, while interesting, is ultimately futile- we cannot influence anything, we're fans. It's the club and latterly- perhaps via the club- you need to try to convince about this. Personal view is that they will be sufficiently risk averse that seats won't happen, whereas Atyeo type shelves might be viable.

If there were a fire, sprinklers could extinguish it but, seating and shelves can be installed which are fire retardant. Detection of fires and fire alarms are more important when it comes to evacuation. Not saying putting out a fire isn't important though.

Seating at West Ham, someone posted who'd been there. Club Wembley seating, so what if it's a membership, it's still people at risk.

Derby, Burton, so what if they are different regs? Liverpool and Spurs are new builds.

As I replied to Ashton Park, when as much relevant information is available and time. I hope (with a little help) to put some proposals to the club. And again I say, although only fans, I think we can influence the club over it's policy.

 

[T R]

Why do some people think we are going to be installing our 3 piece sofas. we're not talking about that. We're talking about drop down seats that could be attached to the walls. There is one area in the south stand underneath the clock that could accomadate drop down seats and the back wall of the dolman area.

Good point made by rich about the corperate events. I was looking at the virtual reality tour of ashon gate looking for places for shelving and seats to go. https://www.ashtongatestadium.co.uk/the-venue/our-spaces/concourses/

Use the walk in option so you can have a good look around the concourses.

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, Rich said:

If there were a fire, sprinklers could extinguish it but, seating and shelves can be installed which are fire retardant. Detection of fires and fire alarms are more important when it comes to evacuation. Not saying putting out a fire isn't important though.

Seating at West Ham, someone posted who'd been there. Club Wembley seating, so what if it's a membership, it's still people at risk.

Derby, Burton, so what if they are different regs? Liverpool and Spurs are new builds.

As I replied to Ashton Park, when as much relevant information is available and time. I hope (with a little help) to put some proposals to the club. And again I say, although only fans, I think we can influence the club over it's policy.

 

Not just the extinguishing of the fire that sprinklers do though, it's also clearing routes from smoke or limiting the smoke which can buy time. Don't know the exact science of it but read that somewhere.

Interesting, will have to look into West Ham. I know people still at risk, what I'm saying is that the % of people to space, the ratio in Club Wembley concourse would surely be quite a bit lower than standard Wembley, hence it's a risk they can more readily take- it could be based on computer modelling which can of course diverge badly from the reality.

Tottenham isn't open at the minute, won't be for months- perhaps seats is one of the sticking points? Or perhaps not- interesting to see how that pans out.

Will be interesting- I still believe SAG might put the kibosh on things but it will definitely be interesting- if there's a way to safely help those who need a seat then I don't see why people should object.

[Rich]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Will concede it's hard to get a full picture from a minute long video, definitely.

it might work, it might be viable but the problem is it's impossible to say IMO. We've never seen our concourses full to capacity at the same time and therefore a best estimate can be made based on that.

I also believe the risk will be deemed too great by the safety bodies- because they plan for the worst case scenario. For example, no chips are available in a concourse that is sterile for example!  Yet in Sports Bar and Grill or whatever it is called now, with furnishings ets it's all okay! Hence those who decide these things will err on the side of (extreme)? caution I think- risk reduction to near zero.

See fire retardant- that sounds better. Problem is too, some have suggested old Dolman or Williams seats which I'm quite sure would be wooden, some have suggested plastic, and I think one suggestion was breeze blocks! All have significantly different capacity to withstand fire risk, or likelihood to combust unlikely though it would sound.

Maybe it will be feasible but I just cannot see it personally- if experts prove my view mistaken, that's no bad thing!

I don't think you've actually digested any of the information contained in my posts such as, the seats installed in the new stand concourse at Anfield under current regs are, (wooden) and taken from the old stand. It is possible to coat existing wood with fire retardant paint and obtain certification against fire, I've done it and it meets building regs. Please stop mentioning different materials and their fire withstanding attributes. We have 26-27k plastic seats in the stadium, hundreds of other chairs and tables in the hospitality areas. 

 

[Rich]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Not just the extinguishing of the fire that sprinklers do though, it's also clearing routes from smoke or limiting the smoke which can buy time. Don't know the exact science of it but read that somewhere.

Interesting, will have to look into West Ham. I know people still at risk, what I'm saying is that the % of people to space, the ratio in Club Wembley concourse would surely be quite a bit lower than standard Wembley, hence it's a risk they can more readily take- it could be based on computer modelling which can of course diverge badly from the reality.

Tottenham isn't open at the minute, won't be for months- perhaps seats is one of the sticking points? Or perhaps not- interesting to see how that pans out.

Will be interesting- I still believe SAG might put the kibosh on things but it will definitely be interesting- if there's a way to safely help those who need a seat then I don't see why people should object.

It appears to me that you are clutching at straws.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, Rich said:

I don't think you've actually digested any of the information contained in my posts such as, the seats installed in the new stand concourse at Anfield under current regs are, (wooden) and taken from the old stand. It is possible to coat existing wood with fire retardant paint and obtain certification against fire, I've done it and it meets building regs. Please stop mentioning different materials and their fire withstanding attributes. We have 26-27k plastic seats in the stadium, hundreds of other chairs and tables in the hospitality areas. 

 

I'm just not convinced it'll fly with the Safety bodies, personally- but we'll see.

[Rich]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'm just not convinced it'll fly with the Safety bodies, personally- but we'll see.

Ok

[Mkelly]

Hopefully I can add clarity to this.

Tables and chairs add loading to an earea of relative safety (as designed for the fire strategy in initial application) we will never get them back.

The bar in between the south and west stand is not blocking any flow so is not relevant. 

Every stadium has a different application and fire strategy. Our concourses were designed to ensure 1st level of safety.  No conspiracy, our fire strategy is designed to keep OUR building and the people in it safe. It can’t be compared to others. 

Shelving.  Yes, it’s coming, we’ve have stainless steel signed off and will be in by November as planned. 

Seating, looking at drop down stadium style options but to be fair space is so limited on the concourse we need to understand where and what impact it will have.  Many stadiums do not have the benefit of the supporters, sports bar and coffee shop work approx 300 seats within these areas.

Mark 

 

[Rich]

8 minutes ago, Mkelly said:

Hopefully I can add clarity to this.

Tables and chairs add loading to an earea of relative safety (as designed for the fire strategy in initial application) we will never get them back.

The bar in between the south and west stand is not blocking any flow so is not relevant. 

Every stadium has a different application and fire strategy. Our concourses were designed to ensure 1st level of safety.  No conspiracy, our fire strategy is designed to keep OUR building and the people in it safe. It can’t be compared to others. 

Shelving.  Yes, it’s coming, we’ve have stainless steel signed off and will be in by November as planned. 

Seating, looking at drop down stadium style options but to be fair space is so limited on the concourse we need to understand where and what impact it will have.  Many stadiums do not have the benefit of the supporters, sports bar and coffee shop work approx 300 seats within these areas.

Mark 

 

Thanks for popping in Mark.  As I pointed out earlier in this thread, there is room for 108 seats along the back wall of the Dolman concourse. They would not protrude any further than the existing concrete columns.  http://www.arenastadiaseating.co.uk/downloads/arena-technical-data-sheet-colosseum-stadium-seat.pdf

Someone with limited mobility would probably find it difficult to move from the Café/sports bar area to the far end of the stadium, just prior to the kick off. If they were closer their seat, they could enjoy the concourse facilities with family/friends and access their seat easier.

Thanks

PS, I note the TV screens were removed from the south stand Dolman bar area, I didn't mention the south/West stand bar causing congestion.

[T R]

16 minutes ago, Mkelly said:

Hopefully I can add clarity to this.

Tables and chairs add loading to an earea of relative safety (as designed for the fire strategy in initial application) we will never get them back.

The bar in between the south and west stand is not blocking any flow so is not relevant. 

Every stadium has a different application and fire strategy. Our concourses were designed to ensure 1st level of safety.  No conspiracy, our fire strategy is designed to keep OUR building and the people in it safe. It can’t be compared to others. 

Shelving.  Yes, it’s coming, we’ve have stainless steel signed off and will be in by November as planned. 

Seating, looking at drop down stadium style options but to be fair space is so limited on the concourse we need to understand where and what impact it will have.  Many stadiums do not have the benefit of the supporters, sports bar and coffee shop work approx 300 seats within these areas.

Mark 

 

Thank you very much for your reply Mark.  Very good news about the steel shelving going in.  If we could have steel drop-down seats, that would be great....

[Mkelly]

1 hour ago, Rich said:

Thanks for popping in Mark.  As I pointed out earlier in this thread, there is room for 108 seats along the back wall of the Dolman concourse. They would not protrude any further than the existing concrete columns.  http://www.arenastadiaseating.co.uk/downloads/arena-technical-data-sheet-colosseum-stadium-seat.pdf

Someone with limited mobility would probably find it difficult to move from the Café/sports bar area to the far end of the stadium, just prior to the kick off. If they were closer their seat, they could enjoy the concourse facilities with family/friends and access their seat easier.

Thanks

PS, I note the TV screens were removed from the south stand Dolman bar area, I didn't mention the south/West stand bar causing congestion.

Appreciate the link, Let me have a look