Dropping Matty Taylor

[downendcity]

41 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

I'd drop him for the Sheffield game to be fair nothing to do with ability him being a gas head or anything,

I feel against untied we'll need a more physical presence up front

Don't want things to unravel and fall apart for that one.

 

[Monkeh]

21 minutes ago, Sturny said:

Don’t understand the love for Taylor, he works hard but hardly a good goal/assist return. Famara on the other hand... 

 

I think a lot of people are convinced they like him but actualy like the idea of him rather than the actual player.

he scored 1 and had a hand in two against qpr, he set up one against blackburn he won the free kick against blackburn, he's like a wasp, his antics create space for other players to exploit

If you don't get that then there isn't much hope for you 

[Sturny]

1 minute ago, Monkeh said:

he scored 1 and had a hand in two against qpr, he set up one against blackburn he won the free kick against blackburn, he's like a wasp, his antics create space for other players to exploit

If you don't get that then there isn't much hope for you 

So you’re saying he gets us a good goal/assist return? 

[JamesBCFC]

1 hour ago, Sturny said:

So you’re saying he gets us a good goal/assist return? 

Looking at purely goals and assists is incredibly simplistic.

He won't get the assist for Brownhills goal, but he won the freekick

A goal opportunity might only come about because of a player dragging a defender out of position, leaving room for a striker to exploit. But that player doesn't get credited for doing so.

[Sturny]

6 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Looking at purely goals and assists is incredibly simplistic.

He won't get the assist for Brownhills goal, but he won the freekick

A goal opportunity might only come about because of a player dragging a defender out of position, leaving room for a striker to exploit. But that player doesn't get credited for doing so.

This entire forum scratched off Diony because of his lack of goals and assists. Taylor has gone twice as long before any of those at times and scratched him off. 

Though I agree Taylor creates those opportunities,  but those are basic requirements for a striker at times which people completely cream themselves over when Taylor does them. 

[JamesBCFC]

3 minutes ago, Sturny said:

This entire forum scratched off Diony because of his lack of goals and assists. Taylor has gone twice as long before any of those at times and scratched him off. 

Though I agree Taylor creates those opportunities,  but those are basic requirements for a striker at times which people completely cream themselves over when Taylor does them. 

Taylor hasn't been fully fit since joining us until this season, and has largely made sub appearances when he has played- last season he played 518 minutes in 18 appearances. That's under half an hour per game.

In 16-17 he contributed to us scoring (goal or assist) 6 times in 15 games, which even when looking at it that simply, isn't an awful return.

 

Its not easy to find a good run of form when firstly playing while not fully fit, and secondly not getting a huge amount of minutes when you do play (in part because of not being fully fit).

The part in bold is a huge exaggeration, if anything I'd say people on this forum are quicker to criticise Taylor than to praise him.

[Sturny]

3 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Taylor hasn't been fully fit since joining us until this season, and has largely made sub appearances when he has played- last season he played 518 minutes in 18 appearances. That's under half an hour per game.

In 16-17 he contributed to us scoring (goal or assist) 6 times in 15 games, which even when looking at it that simply, isn't an awful return.

 

Its not easy to find a good run of form when firstly playing while not fully fit, and secondly not getting a huge amount of minutes when you do play (in part because of not being fully fit).

The part in bold is a huge exaggeration, if anything I'd say people on this forum are quicker to criticise Taylor than to praise him.

Sorry but 1712 minutes (39 apperances) of football since he joined us and to only be involved in 10 goals (assisting more than scoring) is poor. If you brush aside the season when he joined us he's only been involved in 3...... 3.... 

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/107490/History/Matty-Taylor

If you take a gander through some stats over the years he's been almost our worst rated striker every year since 2016. Famara over Taylor everyday for me thanks. People want Taylor to work because they like the idea of him. If he was any other striker (for example Diony and Woodrow) they would give him no sympathy. 

However, I do feel when Taylor gets going in a game he can be a real menace (Blackburn & QPR). 

[Monkeh]

7 minutes ago, Sturny said:

Sorry but 1712 minutes (39 apperances) of football since he joined us and to only be involved in 10 goals (assisting more than scoring) is poor. If you brush aside the season when he joined us he's only been involved in 3...... 3.... 

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/107490/History/Matty-Taylor

If you take a gander through some stats over the years he's been almost our worst rated striker every year since 2016. Famara over Taylor everyday for me thanks. People want Taylor to work because they like the idea of him. If he was any other striker (for example Diony and Woodrow) they would give him no sympathy. 

However, I do feel when Taylor gets going in a game he can be a real menace (Blackburn & QPR). 

thats 43 minutes per game, only strikers hitting goals at those sort of minutes on the pitch are ronaldo and messi

Our top scorer is scoring every 103 minutes

the league top scorer every 68 minutes

3nd top scorer every 122 minutes

4rd top scorer every 129 minutes

 

Do i need to go on,

[Sturny]

3 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

thats 43 minutes per game, only strikers hitting goals at those sort of minutes on the pitch are ronaldo and messi

[JamesBCFC]

1 minute ago, Sturny said:

Sorry but 1712 minutes (39 apperances) of football since he joined us and to only be involved in 10 goals (assisting more than scoring) is poor. If you brush aside the season when he joined us he's only been involved in 3...... 3.... 

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/107490/History/Matty-Taylor

If you take a gander through some stats over the years he's been almost our worst rated striker every year since 2016. Famara over Taylor everyday for me thanks. People want Taylor to work because they like the idea of him. If he was any other striker (for example Diony and Woodrow) they would give him no sympathy. 

However, I do feel when Taylor gets going in a game he can be a real menace (Blackburn & QPR). 

League Cup alone last season he had 2 goals and 2 assists.

Not sure why his first season is being taken out of it, he joined not fully fit, but had more injury issues last season than the one he joined.

Again though, it's not a lot of game time, less than a full half each match. What kind of goal levels do you expect from someone not at 100% while getting inconsistent minutes? 

The only season where he's been fully fit for us is this one, and he's had a goal and an assist in 3 starts in the league. He was terrible against Plymouth though.

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, Sturny said:

Sorry but 1712 minutes (39 apperances) of football since he joined us and to only be involved in 10 goals (assisting more than scoring) is poor. If you brush aside the season when he joined us he's only been involved in 3...... 3.... 

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/107490/History/Matty-Taylor

If you take a gander through some stats over the years he's been almost our worst rated striker every year since 2016. Famara over Taylor everyday for me thanks. People want Taylor to work because they like the idea of him. If he was any other striker (for example Diony and Woodrow) they would give him no sympathy. 

However, I do feel when Taylor gets going in a game he can be a real menace (Blackburn & QPR). 

The incredible workrate can help create space for others.

The assists more than scoring shouldn't be underrated IMO- combined with his workrate, that makes him a good support striker for Weimann which actually helps our structure and means that we might be able to play this shape more often than anticipated- Diedhiou brings other attributes, but we may lose that structure if we brought in Diedhiou for Weimann I think.

[Sturny]

1 minute ago, JamesBCFC said:

League Cup alone last season he had 2 goals and 2 assists.

Not sure why his first season is being taken out of it, he joined not fully fit, but had more injury issues last season than the one he joined.

Again though, it's not a lot of game time, less than a full half each match. What kind of goal levels do you expect from someone not at 100% while getting inconsistent minutes? 

The only season where he's been fully fit for us is this one, and he's had a goal and an assist in 3 starts in the league. He was terrible against Plymouth though.

I'll agree he's started well this season, it might be good to give him a clean slate and say now he's in the full swing of things and it's better to judge him now. 

 

[Sturny]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The incredible workrate can help create space for others.

The assists more than scoring shouldn't be underrated IMO- combined with his workrate, that makes him a good support striker for Weimann which actually helps our structure and means that we might be able to play this shape more often than anticipated- Diedhiou brings other attributes, but we may lose that structure if we brought in Diedhiou for Weimann I think.

Like goals? 

I don't underrate his movment/workrate. I just think they're basic things that you need your striker to do. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, Sturny said:

Like goals? 

I don't underrate his movment/workrate. I just think they're basic things that you need your striker to do. 

It's a fine balance- you might gain the odd goal at the expense of shape, structure and cohesiveness.

Taken in isolation, goals yeah...however factor in assists too and the equation shifts IMO. Could actually in some ways, albeit not identically, see Weimann and Taylor as a new Reid and Paterson. Except Taylor has less flair but more workrate (underrated technically too mind) and causing the defence headaches in that sense. Weimann for Reid basically is on trajectory so far.

Also worth remembering that our best run of form, our most controlled, cohesive run last year came without Diedhiou- the Paterson and Reid combo, and some unorthodox selections in midfield/defence.

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

He has been superb last 3 games, particularly against Blackburn. Best performance since Stoke last season. I hope at some stage we extend his contract as it's up in the summer I think. What an incredible signing for 300k. Just hope he can continue playing like he is now. I'd keep him in with Weimann until there is a reason to change it. We are winning games and they are both playing so well. 

Would tend to go with that.

The advantage too is that with Diedhiou on the bench, if we need an extra push or a final flourish- send him on for Taylor last 25,30 mins after Taylor and Weimann have run them ragged a bit. Stick with until they prove otherwise I think.

[Sturny]

10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It's a fine balance- you might gain the odd goal at the expense of shape, structure and cohesiveness.

Taken in isolation, goals yeah...however factor in assists too and the equation shifts IMO. Could actually in some ways, albeit not identically, see Weimann and Taylor as a new Reid and Paterson. Except Taylor has less flair but more workrate (underrated technically too mind) and causing the defence headaches in that sense. Weimann for Reid basically is on trajectory so far.

Also worth remembering that our best run of form, our most controlled, cohesive run last year came without Diedhiou- the Paterson and Reid combo, and some unorthodox selections in midfield/defence.

Can't argue with what you've said here. Guess I just believe Taylor is a little overhyped and I speculate that we will be better with Famara. 

[KingLear]

For me with the revelation of Eliasson this season and his reputation (already) as one of the best crossers of the ball in the League, I would love to see someone as big and as powerful as Diedhiou attacking those crosses. 

Harsh to drop Taylor absolutely, but I think we need to play to our strengths. Get Weimann to play the role Taylor has been performing with Fam as our main striker up top. 

[hantsred]

Taylor and Diedhiou are different styles and would expect they will be rotated to suit the opposition style or to mix it up during the game if plan A not working.

I watched the full game back whilst it was up on the webiste just to see if it matched my memories at the game and it just confirmed that Taylor's work rate and link up play were superb. There always seemed to be a runner near him when he receives the ball as if instinctively they know that he will spot them and put them through. I would say Taylor is more of an LJ style player then Fam.

When Diedhiou came on the he was far more direct and was looking to make more individual runs rather than sharp layoffs. They both add significant value to the team and pretty sure LJ can accommodate both game to game as required.

 

[Porto Red]

2 hours ago, Monkeh said:

thats 43 minutes per game, only strikers hitting goals at those sort of minutes on the pitch are ronaldo and messi

Our top scorer is scoring every 103 minutes

the league top scorer every 68 minutes

3nd top scorer every 122 minutes

4rd top scorer every 129 minutes

 

Do i need to go on,

Thirnd?

Fourd?

My brain hurts

[Sturny]

Now's the time

[Undy English]

On 03/09/2018 at 16:15, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

So Fammy comes on like a battering ram and scores within a couple of minutes.

Meanwhile, Matty Taylor has shown in the past few games why LJ has stuck with him and what a fully fit Taylor can do- and that's a lot . He's such a pain in the ass to opposing defenders and pulls people out of position and , imo, is a joy to watch.

I know he doesn't get an assist for Brownhill's brilliant goal but he really deserved one! Matty offers something different up front in his general play although doesn't look like the prolific scorer that Fammy does. The difference being that although Fammy usually looks like he's going to score and offers that big presence up top, his general play is not as good as Taylor.

I think he'll get better with games, providing assists and goals but Fammy will strike fear into the heart of most defences and will score goals. 

I find it really difficult to contemplate dropping Matty but equally so- not starting Fammy. Who's your choice for the impact sub and why?

 

Similar situation to Raheem Sterling in the World Cup; many England fans slated him for lack of goals, but when you actually pay attention to the match, you can see how much work he did (off the ball too), pulling apart defenders etc. to allow others to edge into the box.

[WhistleHappy]

If nothing else we are fortunate to have competent and flexible attacking options that LJ can feel confident in picking.

If we don't know from game to game who LJ will go with then sure as hell the opposition will be kept guessing too, and that can't be a bad thing can it?  Predictably unpredictable at last! 

Hopefully if everyone stays fit that advantage will continue, rotating players will help no end with that, plus avoiding player 'burn out' from week in week out continuous playing through a long hard Championship season, keeping legs relevantly fresh for longer may prove invaluable next spring.

COYR's 

[WhistleHappy]

On ‎06‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 07:42, Monkeh said:

 I'd drop him for the Sheffield game to be fair nothing to do with ability him being a gas head or anything,

* I feel against untied we'll need a more physical presence up front

* ….there's a couple of Wednesday fans that I'm sure will agree whole heartedly with that  

[exAtyeoMax]

I don't see it as dropping anyone but utilising them, where and when necessary to the best of their ability depending on the opposition or the stage of the game

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, WhistleHappy said:

If nothing else we are fortunate to have competent and flexible attacking options that LJ can feel confident in picking.

If we don't know from game to game who LJ will go with then sure as hell the opposition will be kept guessing too, and that can't be a bad thing can it?  Predictably unpredictable at last! 

Hopefully if everyone stays fit that advantage will continue, rotating players will help no end with that, plus avoiding player 'burn out' from week in week out continuous playing through a long hard Championship season, keeping legs relevantly fresh for longer may prove invaluable next spring.

COYR's 

 

2 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I don't see it as dropping anyone but utilising them, where and when necessary to the best of their ability depending on the opposition or the stage of the game

Same here.  On paper Weimann and Diedhiou would be my starting pair, but I’m happy enough that they are all getting minutes...and importantly, Taylor came on on Saturday and proved a point / helped get us a win, and last night Diedhiou knew he had to put in a performance, and he did that too.  Players playing to keep their places / challenge for a place is what you want.

[redsquirrel]

i like Taylor starting,his attitude and annoyance can get players booked,hes good at winding them up ,might not have happened yet but that would make Fammys job easier when he came on with some defenders a bit reluctant to hamper him

[FrozenRobin]

Ha

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, FrozenRobin said:

Ha

I think Taylor was playing well at the start of last season. And then most of the rest of the season did well off the bench. I still think he would be a decent player in the championship for some teams. We could actually do with him on our bench at the moment! But really not quite good enough for us with what we want up top.

[maxjak]

7 hours ago, FrozenRobin said:

Ha

Is that a record?   A two month ponder,  before reacting to a comment?...................bringing deliberating to a whole new level.

[Davefevs]

21 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Is that a record?   A two month ponder,  before reacting to a comment?...................bringing deliberating to a whole new level.

14 months, it was Sept 2018