This team is good enough for promotion

[The Batman]

5 hours ago, gl1 said:

i have been following city since 81 

Well you had a real baptism of fire considering what happened to the club over the following seasons.

Surprised it did not put you off the life. 

I was born in 1985 so i missed it all.

[RUSSEL85]

If we can keep our squad fit, with minimal inquiries, that helps and it's worth a good few points, again that's a little bit of luck required.

[Robbored]

4 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Typical of you to omit and ignore my last sentence which states that if we are consistent, we'll be alright. 

But felt it was necessary to point out LJs record?

[hoxton casual]

4 hours ago, wendyredredrobin said:

I don't think he is a challenger to Fielding, in my view he is clearly our number 1 keeper.  I would be extremely disappointed if he loses his place. He is the best keeper we have had for a while now.

Making a few of howlers in my view. Hopefully he settles down

[mozo]

2 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

I see what you're saying but comparing us to Cardiff is not comparing like for like and, imo, is a bad example.

Cardiff went up by deciding to employ a certain type of manager, a certain type of player, and play a certain type of football - experienced manager, a lot of experienced players, low risk football.

City have decided to employ a very different type of manager, a very different type of player, playing a very different type of football - inexperienced manager, a lot of inexperienced players, a higher risk style of football (and so harder to pull off successfully over 46 games in the Championship). 

Cardiff's choices have brought them short term, unsustainable (hopefully!) success.

City's approach looks more to the long term and aims to be sustainable.

So, imo, the comparison is a false one.

But if you'd said Huddersfield....

Huddersfield!

I agree with you, but let's not assume that Cardiff identified a blueprint for promotion. In fact I'd dare say they were as surprised as we were that their squad and methodology was good enough to keep winning where other teams (us) fell off the pace.

This season, Sunderland, Villa and Boro are clearly strongest on paper, but look at Villa last season and you see that paper counts for nowt.

So many factors contribute to success, and I believe that any of the ten best teams can achieve promotion if some crucial moments go their way.

[Monkeh]

12 minutes ago, Robbored said:

But felt it was necessary to point out LJs record?

it's a valid thing to point out robbo, Johnson's gone through that spell every season as a manager, so needs to be taken into consideration 

[robin_unreliant]

5 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I'll remember this thread and reply with the link on @reddogkev's thread titled 'Johnson must go now!' in November. 

He can claim that the squad IS good enough but Johnson isn't.

There's always that excuse when the squad fails to deliver on early promise.

[Robbored]

Just now, Monkeh said:

it's a valid thing to point out robbo, Johnson's gone through that spell every season as a manager, so needs to be taken into consideration 

Taking it into consideration doesn’t mean it’ll happen again does it?  In the same way a run of wins is no guarantee that it can be repeated again either.

[JamesBCFC]

4 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

it's a valid thing to point out robbo, Johnson's gone through that spell every season as a manager, so needs to be taken into consideration 

The Oldham one was a very harsh one, and certainly not an "implosion"

He was at a club with almost no budget and turned them from fighting relegation into safe mid table.

After he left they got continually worse.

Not sure what part of LJs time there could be considered an "implosion"

[phantom]

2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Taking it into consideration doesn’t mean it’ll happen again does it?  In the same way a run of wins is no guarantee that it can be repeated again either.

Very true, but considering it has happened at EVERY club he has managed at previously, facts sadly point to the fact it is more than likely to happen again

Obviously we all hope this won't be the case

1 minute ago, JamesBCFC said:

The Oldham one was a very harsh one, and certainly not an "implosion"

He was at a club with almost no budget and turned them from fighting relegation into safe mid table.

But competing with teams with a similar budget to his own

Either way the run still happened

[Monkeh]

7 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Taking it into consideration doesn’t mean it’ll happen again does it?  In the same way a run of wins is no guarantee that it can be repeated again either.

on whats gone on before I'd say there is a far higher chance of it happening again then it not happening I'd go as far and say its 70/30 in happening again

[JamesBCFC]

7 minutes ago, phantom said:

Very true, but considering it has happened at EVERY club he has managed at previously, facts sadly point to the fact it is more than likely to happen again

Obviously we all hope this won't be the case

But competing with teams with a similar budget to his own

Either way the run still happened

Relegation favourites with no money lose a few games. Tell you what, I am absolutely astonished, that manager must have been useless.

I was expecting the manager to win the title with that kind of backing! And the fact they have never managed to finish as high since he left proves how crap he was.

 

[Monkeh]

5 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Relegation favourites with no money lose a few games. Tell you what, I am absolutely astonished, that manager must have been useless.

I was expecting the manager to win the title with that kind of backing! And the fact they have never managed to finish as high since he left proves how crap he was.

 

he hasn't called the manager crap, he said like I have that a bad run has happened every season he has been a manager and he' can't seem to turn it around and it needs to be considered

[Davefevs]

4 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

We are a new team and while looking vulnerable, we are now grinding out the results. One defeat in six is OK. The next match will give us a good insight into how we are as Sheffield United are always a difficult side to beat.

If anything the last 3 matches may have been barometers of progress:

QPR - fodder (before loan signings) we didn’t play well but a good result in the type of game we’d **** up previously

Swansea - can we take on a decent team away from home and win convincingly?  Yes. Dominant. 

Blackburn - can we play poorly in spells but punish the opposition like we were undone in 15/16. Yes. Starting to show more clinical finishing. 

Finished article?  No way. But encouraging. 

4 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

We are obviously in the mix for a play off place probably along with 10 others. The biggest gap in the division will be between 14th and 15th so I agree we could finish anywhere in the top 14.

I'd be happier if we'd signed someone like Norwood but that appears to never have been on the cards.

LJ said we were in for 2 players. Bargain Basement he said. Maybe in terms of the money he had to use, but not necessarily in terms of the quality of player!!!!!

1 hour ago, phantom said:

Not sure the financial constraints were the problem

£18.4m loss in 17/18 if experts sources are correct (Kieran Maguire) suggests they were!!!

The summer window will definitely give LJ more clout in January, although Kalas might mean some of it has been used already???  

[JamesBCFC]

21 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

he hasn't called the manager crap, he said like I have that a bad run has happened every season he has been a manager and he' can't seem to turn it around

Can you not recognise there is a difference in such a run occurring when the side is one expected to be relegated, compared to one that isn't?

Do you not think that (as an example) Aston Villa going on a lengthy winless run is different to Rotherham doing the same?

To use Oldham is extremely harsh, when he got the job there they were in the relegation zone late in the season, so logic dictates that it is one of the weaker squads in the league. As such, a run of poor results is likely to happen regardless of manager.

I also don't recall a long losing streak when he was there, not that I followed their results particularly closely. It has been stated on here once and accepted as fact, could someone provide the actual evidence of it?

The nearest I have found is it being said "Oldham got a reputation for being gallant losers" in the early part of 2013-14, yet they would have been above us at that time, so must have been picking up some points.

His overall record there was W36 D32 L35, very average, but earned him plaudits for overachieving.

In fact I just checked the Oldham 2013-14 results, and the longest losing run they had in the league that season was three whole games. Not an implosion by any measure, and not an unusual amount.

2014-15 their longest winless run (while he was there) was the opening 4 games of the season.

They then went on to lose just 1 of their next 15 games- and that was a 1-0 defeat to us as we walked to the title. 6 games after that run ended he left for Barnsley.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

[reddogkev]

2 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

He and Londoner are more similar than they'd ever realise - both just love creating talking points.

Ah, my nemesis, Londoner, the Ying to my Yang. 

I do love to get people talking on here, sometimes ...

[JoeAman08]

The hope in this team is the brand new back 5. Obviously a team game but 1 goal in 3 matches(a possible foul on keeper goal straight from corner) is a very good record especially for us. We know we can score in most matches but we never knew if we could keep them out. If they can keep this up them of course we can be a playoff side.

Need more time to tell though. As decent as Blackburn and Swansea will are I am not sure they will be top half of the table in terms of goals and QPR won’t be. We need to see this against the Leeds, Villa and Brentford. I would not get overly excited yet but yes you can see this side seems stronger and deeper. 

[gl1]

1 hour ago, The Batman said:

Well you had a real baptism of fire considering what happened to the club over the following seasons.

Surprised it did not put you off the life. 

I was born in 1985 so i missed it all.

Yep I’ve seen us st the depths. Some great times too. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

3 hours ago, INCRED said:

With all the fanfare and media attention on Leeds & Boro there is only a 3 point gap to us. Leeds drew at Swansea and we took 3 points in a dominant display. It goes to show we have as much chance as anyone of promotion and 11 points from 6 games is a decent start and better tgan last season by 2 points at the same stage 

The squad we have are more than capable of beating any team in this league and if we have a lot more luck with injuries and suspensions and a bit of luck then there is no reason why the P word can’t be used with some level of confidence this season

Blimey. You really think so?

I think in any one game, over 90 minutes, of 11 v 11, we always have some chance of upsetting the odds, of giving the other eleven a difficult afternoon, and sometimes a bloody nose, irrespective of the opponents' budget, but we all know that it is a different thing over 46 games.

First things first: Is this team good enough to beat Sheff Utd at home? 

 

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, phantom said:

Very true, but considering it has happened at EVERY club he has managed at previously, facts sadly point to the fact it is more than likely to happen again

Obviously we all hope this won't be the case

But competing with teams with a similar budget to his own

Either way the run still happened

For any run of results, good or bad there’s will be a reason behind it.

I don’t know the ins and outs of what lay behind LJs poor run of results at Oldham or Barnsley but last season I put it down the physical and mental impact of the cup run. It took far more out of the squad than fans realise.

City won’t have that this season, unless we manage a spectacular FA cup run and so I can’t see any reason why we should ‘hit the  wall’ this time around. 

[RedYoshi]

58 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

I also don't recall a long losing streak when he was there, not that I followed their results particularly closely. It has been stated on here once and accepted as fact, could someone provide the actual evidence of it?

This got me searching, and I see now that it did the same to you! This is all of his managerial “runs”:

Oldham 12/13:

• Winless 4
• Unbeaten 3
• Losing 2
• Winning 3

Oldham 13/14

• Winless 6 (twice)
• Unbeaten 10
• Losing 3
• Winning 2

Oldham 14/15

• Winless 4
• Unbeaten 11 (1 loss in 15)
• Losing 3
• Winning 2

Barnsley 14/15

• Winless 9
• Unbeaten 7
• Losing 2
• Winning 4

Barnsley 15/16

• Winless 8
• Unbeaten 6
• Losing 8
• Winning 6

City 15/16

• Winless 3
• Unbeaten 3
• Losing 2
• Winning 2

City 16/17

• Winless 9 (1 win in 17 - 2 in 22)
• Unbeaten 5
• Losing 8
• Winning 3

City 17/18

• Winless 5
• Unbeaten 10 (1 loss in 15 - 2 in 22)
• Losing 3
• Winning 4

 

Now this is obviously limited as a dataset, as a couple of draws and a win in amongst 20 poor games might alter the perception of that period (and vice versa), but a) it’s easier to just limit ourselves to a single type of “run”, and b) I’ve included a few notable examples of that.

The ones in bold are the ones I’d consider particularly impressive/disappointing. Arbitrarily I assigned anything above 7 in the winless/unbeaten categories, and anything above 5 in the winning/losing categories.

Looking at the bare numbers, it could actually suggest that his time at Barnsley was the anomaly in terms of lots of streaky runs.

Ultimately though, I’d say there is very little pattern, and using previous results such as these to predict the future might just be a slight waste of time.

 

 

Also, I haven’t bothered to compare any of these runs to “average” runs of other teams/managers, which would help us set the impressive/disappointing boundaries a little more accurately. Mainly I just wanted to find the actual numbers though, so people can make up their own minds.

[1bristolcity]

This team looks a bit like Fulham last season, albeit we have made a better start, so nailed on.

[Monkeh]

1 hour ago, JamesBCFC said:

Can you not recognise there is a difference in such a run occurring when the side is one expected to be relegated, compared to one that isn't?

Do you not think that (as an example) Aston Villa going on a lengthy winless run is different to Rotherham doing the same?

To use Oldham is extremely harsh, when he got the job there they were in the relegation zone late in the season, so logic dictates that it is one of the weaker squads in the league. As such, a run of poor results is likely to happen regardless of manager.

I also don't recall a long losing streak when he was there, not that I followed their results particularly closely. It has been stated on here once and accepted as fact, could someone provide the actual evidence of it?

The nearest I have found is it being said "Oldham got a reputation for being gallant losers" in the early part of 2013-14, yet they would have been above us at that time, so must have been picking up some points.

His overall record there was W36 D32 L35, very average, but earned him plaudits for overachieving.

In fact I just checked the Oldham 2013-14 results, and the longest losing run they had in the league that season was three whole games. Not an implosion by any measure, and not an unusual amount.

2014-15 their longest winless run (while he was there) was the opening 4 games of the season.

They then went on to lose just 1 of their next 15 games- and that was a 1-0 defeat to us as we walked to the title. 6 games after that run ended he left for Barnsley.

That’s not the point I’m making 

you just can’t dismiss the runs that seem to go with his management,

[JamesBCFC]

14 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

That’s not the point I’m making 

you just can’t dismiss the runs that seem to go with his management,

And the point I was making is that it doesnt help when people lie to make LJs record worse.

It was said LJ has had an implosion at every club he' says managed. That was then immediately taken as fact

It's now been categorically shown that wasn't the case.

Equally it is disingenuous to ignore context around the clubs managed- Rafa Benitez might have a chance at winning the league if he was managing one of the top 4 clubs, but at Newcastle you wouldn't expect him to.

[INCRED]

5 hours ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Blimey. You really think so?

I think in any one game, over 90 minutes, of 11 v 11, we always have some chance of upsetting the odds, of giving the other eleven a difficult afternoon, and sometimes a bloody nose, irrespective of the opponents' budget, but we all know that it is a different thing over 46 games.

First things first: Is this team good enough to beat Sheff Utd at home? 

 

Why not, if we hadn’t had the amount of injuries and the cup run last season then surely we would have faired better in the league and made the top 6?

No league cup to worry about so just the injuries to blight any progress. 

Appreciate its early days and we are only a few defeats away from a mediocre start but I think we have recruited well and a hard team to beat now and have goals throughout the team

[ChippenhamRed]

6 minutes ago, INCRED said:

Why not, if we hadn’t had the amount of injuries and the cup run last season then surely we would have faired better in the league and made the top 6?

No league cup to worry about so just the injuries to blight any progress. 

Appreciate its early days and we are only a few defeats away from a mediocre start but I think we have recruited well and a hard team to beat now and have goals throughout the team

We finished up five places off 6th spot. When our injury list was at its longest, we were still winning matches - Garita was on the bench v Man Utd!

Actually, in the New Year, players returned and we expected a fresh impetus as a result, but it never happened.

Injuries do not excuse what happened last season. Neither does the cup run in my opinion. In the early rounds we played a second-string side and we played our last cup game on 23rd January. Plenty of other teams had to juggle FA Cup games later into the season.

Injuries and the cup run are lazy excuses that don’t stack up with a more detailed analysis. The poor January recruitment was without a doubt a much bigger factor. We blew it big time, inexcusably.

[spudski]

10 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

We finished up five places off 6th spot. When our injury list was at its longest, we were still winning matches - Garita was on the bench v Man Utd!

Actually, in the New Year, players returned and we expected a fresh impetus as a result, but it never happened.

Injuries do not excuse what happened last season. Neither does the cup run in my opinion. In the early rounds we played a second-string side and we played our last cup game on 23rd January. Plenty of other teams had to juggle FA Cup games later into the season.

Injuries and the cup run are lazy excuses that don’t stack up with a more detailed analysis. The poor January recruitment was without a doubt a much bigger factor. We blew it big time, inexcusably.

With respect...surely your last sentence sums up everything.

You need a detailed analysis of what was happening at the Club during January.

We as fans have no idea what our budget within FFP allowed us in the window.

We also have no idea who we approached, who turned us down or who was available.

Plus..if we did buy in, and didn't go up...how inexcusable would it be, if we didn't have the budget to spend in the summer and recruit for this season?

As said before...it's not like going shopping in January. So many anomalies that we don't know of to take into consideration.

[The Red Planet]

9 hours ago, INCRED said:

With all the fanfare and media attention on Leeds & Boro there is only a 3 point gap to us. Leeds drew at Swansea and we took 3 points in a dominant display. It goes to show we have as much chance as anyone of promotion and 11 points from 6 games is a decent start and better tgan last season by 2 points at the same stage 

The squad we have are more than capable of beating any team in this league and if we have a lot more luck with injuries and suspensions and a bit of luck then there is no reason why the P word can’t be used with some level of confidence this season

Inclined to agree. It is of course way too soon to start thinking about the P word but as a City fan since 1976, I think the current squad is the best I have seen for many years.

I am hugely encouraged by the way the coaching team have brought on players like Eliasson, Kelly, Brownhill and O'Dowda to regular first team level. 

Let's see how it goes against high flying Sheff U,  but based on our last three performances,  I am confident we can at least make the play offs this season.

 

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

8 hours ago, mozo said:

This season, Sunderland, Villa and Boro are clearly strongest on paper, but look at Villa last season and you see that paper counts for nowt....

Sunderland are in league one....