Was it a penalty?

[bs20ciderarmy]

I’m 50/50 on the call, was 100 per cent a penalty, BUT the referee did not blow straight away, waited for them to take the shot, he shoots maenpa saves it, then blows for a penalty... when does the advantage finish??

[Super]

Ref got it spot on.

[Cider red]

100% a challenge for a penalty; agree on the advantage though; how can he play advantage; they miss then gives a pen; literally the only way they can't score is by missing the pen!

[BigAl&Toby]

Behind the goal and that’s how we sat it.

Got it spot on.

Hope we see some consistency with the approach.

And right to see him book Johnstone too.

[Monkeh]

pen all day long, he would of always gave it unless they scored in which case he would of awarded a goal, it was a good bit of refing 

[redsince1994]

Definite foul but I see what you mean.

Clear shot on goal could be classed as using your advantage.

[Wanderingred]

What do the rules say?

ADVANTAGE

• allows play to continue when an offence occurs and the non-offending team will benefit from the advantage and penalises the offence if the anticipated advantage does not ensue at that time or within a few seconds

You could argue that a clear shot on goal would constitute as an advantage, which happened within a few seconds? Tough one. If I was the ref and in a neutral position, my gut feeling would be to give the pen so no hard feelings from me.

[Bar BS3]

Definite penalty, no doubt. 

I think ours on Wiemann should have been as well, although it would have been a lot softer. 

[Monkeh]

15 minutes ago, Wanderingred said:

What do the rules say?

ADVANTAGE

• allows play to continue when an offence occurs and the non-offending team will benefit from the advantage and penalises the offence if the anticipated advantage does not ensue at that time or within a few seconds

You could argue that a clear shot on goal would constitute as an advantage, which happened within a few seconds? Tough one. If I was the ref and in a neutral position, my gut feeling would be to give the pen so no hard feelings from me.

the shoot wasn't a clear shot it came through a crowd and was off target a couple of seconds after the foul, so the ref, for me got it spot on, and to be fair he was decent throughout, could of gave us a pen to make it 4-3 but the better team won, no complaints about that or our performance or johnsons post match comments, 

[Super]

1 minute ago, Monkeh said:

the shoot wasn't a clear shot it came through a crowd and was off target a couple of seconds after the foul, so the ref, for me got it spot on, and to be fair he was decent throughout, could of gave us a pen to make it 4-3 but the better team won, no complaints about that or our performance or johnsons post match comments, 

I agree. Got it all spot on including not sending Webster off.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

38 minutes ago, Super said:

Ref got it spot on.

Absolutely, there was a bit of grappling Wiemann needed to be far stronger and he threw himself to the ground long after the grappling had finished.

I think there is too much straw clutching over this decision, never a penalty.

[Meh]

Watching on tele it looked 100% a penalty and happy advantage was played and brought back - no issue.

However the question of time allowed is my niggle.

Before we were awarded the fee kick (which Brownhill took and saved over top for corner) the ref allowed play to continue for about 2 seconds. In that time Weimann (I think) beat 2 or so players in the box and was in the process of taking it around another - the last one - and would have had a shot chance from a tight angle.

I truly believe that if the ref allows 2 more seconds tops he gets a shot away - why allow 2 seconds to make progress but then deny the chance of another 2 or 1 even when an opportunity is clearly developing.

I was shouting at the tele - seemed wrong at the time to me being that I had previously witnessed the same ref watch the result of their shot before pulling it back.

I know you can’t wait forever but the chance of a shot was really close when he stopped play and pulled it back.

[xerox6060]

59 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Definite penalty, no doubt. 

I think ours on Wiemann should have been as well, although it would have been a lot softer. 

Good advantage and a good decision by the ref spot on.. 

[Robin1988]

1 hour ago, Cider red said:

100% a challenge for a penalty; agree on the advantage though; how can he play advantage; they miss then gives a pen; literally the only way they can't score is by missing the pen!

If he blows as they hit the back of the net then miss the penalty they'd not be happy. Good advantage and a good decision.

[Midlands Robin]

I can appreciate how hard it can be for refs. Last night I was sat low down in the stand and near the corner flag. From where I was sat, looking across, I missed the contact and saw the West Brom play go down. I was looking right at it and to my mind, there was no contact. It's a bloody difficult job for the man in the middle having to make split second decisions and not one I would want to do in a million years. Overall, I thought the ref had a good game last night although he didn't give us much, he did let the game flow quite well. 

[phantom]

1 hour ago, Super said:

Ref got it spot on.

 

1 hour ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Absolutely, there was a bit of grappling Wiemann needed to be far stronger and he threw himself to the ground long after the grappling had finished.

I think there is too much straw clutching over this decision, never a penalty.

Agree, Weimann was looking at the linesman far too early in the move looking for the penalty and went down far too easy sadly when there was no real contact made.

Doing that takes away the element of doubt from the officials

[wendyredredrobin]

Can't argue with the penalty and the ref was right to play the advantage, then bring it back when the advantage was lost.  Whilst that didn't benefit us last night I will be quite happy if referees did it a bit more often.

Kelly f*c*ed up royally to cause it though.  He needs to think safety and realise that he won't getall the time he wants at this level.  But that is fair enough, he is still very young and still learning.

[maxjak]

Far too many referees fail to allow the advantage rule, probably due to a lack of confidence and a fear of being criticised?  If referees just take a pause/beat to see what develops, instead of an often knee jerk reaction to the situation, by blowing in that instant. Surely the whole point when a foul is committed, is to make certain that the aggrieved party benefits? I am sure, like me. you have seen a situation where the attacking side are about to/very close to putting the ball in an extremely advantageous position, and perhaps score?..........only for the ref to bring it back for a free kick, so allowing the perpetrators of the foul to organise a wall and set up their defence, and so take away a great deal of the advantage for the team that has been wronged.  Luigi Collina, the Italian ref, who unfortunately has now retired, was brilliant at applying the advantage in attacking situations. It would help the game a great deal if other refs followed his example?

[Davefevs]

On 19/09/2018 at 12:02, Wanderingred said:

What do the rules say?

ADVANTAGE

• allows play to continue when an offence occurs and the non-offending team will benefit from the advantage and penalises the offence if the anticipated advantage does not ensue at that time or within a few seconds

You could argue that a clear shot on goal would constitute as an advantage, which happened within a few seconds? Tough one. If I was the ref and in a neutral position, my gut feeling would be to give the pen so no hard feelings from me.

Mmmm. Interesting one this one. 

Before reading this I thought 100% the ref got it right. The forward given a couple of seconds to put the ball in the net. 

However the above is really saying that Webster’s foul (attempt to play ball - no double jeopardy red card) denied a “chance” NOT denied a goal (like a handball on the line). 

The advantage therefore allowed the forward another opportunity to get a shot away which he missed. He may we’ll have missed the first opportunity. 

Let’s put some stats on it.

In fact if you look at the xG (expected goal rate of the chance) you’ll see that the miss was approx 0.2 (1 in 5 chance), yet the penalty is approx 0.8 (4 in 5). 

So having allowed him to miss once the ref then gave them a 4x better chance to score. 

I’m starting to think that the advantage and shot were sufficient, but definitely a grey area. 

 

[onlyotib]

On 19/09/2018 at 11:43, bs20ciderarmy said:

I’m 50/50 on the call, was 100 per cent a penalty, BUT the referee did not blow straight away, waited for them to take the shot, he shoots maenpa saves it, then blows for a penalty... when does the advantage finish??

Totally agree. I bet if the player scored from the follow up he wouldn’t hav given a penalty. So in that case it was basically a win win situation for wba. Having said that it was a deffo pen