Lee0 Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 Marlon Pack last night didn't just have a bad game, he had a game that was as poor a performance as I've ever seen from a so called defensive/controlling midfielder (and captain). The general impression I've got from posters on this forum is that he's the best passer at the club, a leader, a possible premiership player..... pfffft. Yes, I know he played 2 (whoop whoop) quality passes in the 2nd half but that's it, from our 'main man' ! 1st half was a non stop tirade of poor quality passes, not just the ones that were only 5 yd passes that went out of play, those are just embarrassing for the player, the really poor passes were ones that found a team mate and put him on the back foot or put him in a corner surrounded by opposition players. Marlon stops us, as a team going forward, he slows play down or gives the ball away. COD showed last night (and more so against WBA) that he's capable of playing in the middle, I'm hoping he's soon given a chance there ahead of Marlon, COD and JB playing through the middle, attacking, looking to get forward. The time has come to drop MP, with Korey out it seems as though he's untouchable (I wonder why Liam Walsh turns up). we, as a team would of been better with 10 men last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin_unreliant Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 Wasn't just him who had a bad game though was it? I like Brownhill but he was anonymous. Paterson - no idea why he gets in the team given his recent form. Eliasson kept giving the ball away. Basically the whole midfield was shocking. Marlon does have more good than bad games imho so it seems unfair to single him out when they were all basically shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 I'm a huge Brownhill fan but he must have made more errors than anyone else on the pitch ( I'd love to see those stats!) Pack was also poor but was it him that did that little Zidane trick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 I like Pack but did he make a forward pass last night? Certainly didnt lead by example thats for sure however Brownhill was equally as bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted September 22, 2018 Admin Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 The lad that got the motm vote was partly the reason Pack was so quiet, a real shame as he's been decent up to now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sglosbcfc Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 Very poor displays from just about everyone not just Pack. I thought Pack, Brownhill, Kalas, Hunt and Kelly were particularly poor. Our best player was Webster, Weimann worked hard, everyone else was below a 6 out of 10. We'll bounce back against Villa COYR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 LJ and his assistants had obviously been working with the players on game plan but as others have said none of them played well and were unable to implement said game plan effectively. Thats why he said post match that he was ‘embarrassed and frustrated’ with the performance. As in any workplace if a manager shows and instructs his staff how to overcome a particular problem but the staff then fail to deliver, who is at fault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Coach Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, Robbored said: LJ and his assistants had obviously been working with the players on game plan but as others have said none of them played well and were unable to implement said game plan effectively. Thats why he said post match that he was ‘embarrassed and frustrated’ with the performance. As in any workplace if a manager shows and instructs his staff how to overcome a particular problem but the staff then fail to deliver, who is at fault? The Manager still Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Wood Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 The thing with Brownhill was the overhit crosses and passes.That performance last night reminded me of england v Iceland absolutely dreadful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWSM Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 We dont have a real potent striker. Famara Diedhou missed several opportunities to score. He is not championship standard nor is Taylor. They can perform but lack consistency to be a real threat at this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 16 minutes ago, Red_Wizard said: The Manager still That's handy to know, the next time I mess up at work I'll blame my boss. Who needs the concept of personal responsibility anyway? So old fashioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 12 minutes ago, Red_Wizard said: The Manager still Hmmm..... not sure about that RW. Obviously the buck stops with the manager but from my own experience when staff failed do something as requested I didn’t feel that I was responsible for their inability to complete the task. What that kind of scenario taught me was who to rely on........I imagine LJ feels the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin_unreliant Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 19 minutes ago, Red_Wizard said: The Manager still Exactly. He/she is either a bad communicator; has given them the wrong instructions;hasn't got a plan suitable to the skills of the workforce or has recruited the wrong people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRed Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 8 minutes ago, Robbored said: Hmmm..... not sure about that RW. Obviously the buck stops with the manager but from my own experience when staff failed do something as requested I didn’t feel that I was responsible for their inability to complete the task. What that kind of scenario taught me was who to rely on........I imagine LJ feels the same. Does LJ believe that Pato wide left is the answer, someone he can rely on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Lee0 said: Marlon Pack last night didn't just have a bad game, he had a game that was as poor a performance as I've ever seen from a so called defensive/controlling midfielder (and captain). The general impression I've got from posters on this forum is that he's the best passer at the club, a leader, a possible premiership player..... pfffft. Yes, I know he played 2 (whoop whoop) quality passes in the 2nd half but that's it, from our 'main man' ! 1st half was a non stop tirade of poor quality passes, not just the ones that were only 5 yd passes that went out of play, those are just embarrassing for the player, the really poor passes were ones that found a team mate and put him on the back foot or put him in a corner surrounded by opposition players. Marlon stops us, as a team going forward, he slows play down or gives the ball away. COD showed last night (and more so against WBA) that he's capable of playing in the middle, I'm hoping he's soon given a chance there ahead of Marlon, COD and JB playing through the middle, attacking, looking to get forward. The time has come to drop MP, with Korey out it seems as though he's untouchable (I wonder why Liam Walsh turns up). we, as a team would of been better with 10 men last night. Packs passing is good, when he keeps it on the ground , limits it to 15/20 yards and keeps the ball moving. Last night every player misplaced passes, throughout the game. As for stopping us going forward, the best midfielder in the world would struggle when there is no movement and no one to pass too. As for COD , if anything he slows the movement down more than Pack. I'm a big fan but he will always take a touch/dribble/try to make space , it is rare if he moves the ball quickly, so I think you're being a little unfair praising COD for the same thing you criticise Pack for. I totally agree COD is capable of playing in the middle and it would free Pack to play a proper sitting role and protect the defence more. Thing is though our coach doesn't like 3 in the middle. I'm also with you on Walsh. We have to give him game time because there is no way Pack and Brownhill will be able to play every minute of every game until Korey is fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 Pack had a very poor outing last night but that in no way is deserving of the utter ridiculousness of this post. He IS the best passer at the club courtesy of the fact he's the ONLY creative passer we have at the club. As for stopping us going forward, slowing play down and giving the ball away.... For the latter at least there's an inherent risk when trying to be creative, so what's Hunt's, Brownhill's, Watkins's, Paterson's ( I could go on) excuse? Slowing play down, that's a WeeLee trademark they all do it, angles, triangles and inches. Great in the coaching manuals, crap if you've no midfield creativity or end product. So that leaves stopping us going forward. As per the game against Middlesbrough, guilty. They knew and quickly ensured they went man for man on him ( as any team who've done their homework should against us) and our response, oh yeah, we don't have one as we've nobody else who can pick a pass. Early days I was quite critical of his abilities but he's worked at his game and he's developed into a very useful unit. He's absolutely no pace (not something one can do much about,) but if he did he wouldn't be playing for us. CoD ended up in the middle because WeeLee's deluded enough to think we're wholly interchangable. That's why we pretty much only sign wingers yet ended up with Diggery playing wide most of last night. You have an opinion though most sensible folks would rather see CoD bombing down the wing crossing to the tall bloke in the box. I, too, wonder why Walsh bothers to turn up as on his previous showings he'd struggle to make Stockwood's stiffs. And finally the pedant. It's incorrect to postulate what it would have been like playing with 10 men. We did. WeeLee picked Paterson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Lee0 said: Marlon Pack last night didn't just have a bad game, he had a game that was as poor a performance as I've ever seen from a so called defensive/controlling midfielder (and captain). The general impression I've got from posters on this forum is that he's the best passer at the club, a leader, a possible premiership player..... pfffft. Yes, I know he played 2 (whoop whoop) quality passes in the 2nd half but that's it, from our 'main man' ! 1st half was a non stop tirade of poor quality passes, not just the ones that were only 5 yd passes that went out of play, those are just embarrassing for the player, the really poor passes were ones that found a team mate and put him on the back foot or put him in a corner surrounded by opposition players. Marlon stops us, as a team going forward, he slows play down or gives the ball away. COD showed last night (and more so against WBA) that he's capable of playing in the middle, I'm hoping he's soon given a chance there ahead of Marlon, COD and JB playing through the middle, attacking, looking to get forward. The time has come to drop MP, with Korey out it seems as though he's untouchable (I wonder why Liam Walsh turns up). we, as a team would of been better with 10 men last night. 1 bad game and he gets this in a thread? He’s definitely had more MOM performances than ones like last night. have you forgotten the night he had 100+ million of Mancunian midfield in his pocket? everyone has a bad game from time to time. Everyone was poor last night and when the movement etc isn’t there then as a central midfielder you’re going to stick out if you don’t have the options to pass to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 13 minutes ago, RidgeRed said: Does LJ believe that Pato wide left is the answer, someone he can rely on? Obviously he does. He and the coaches see all the players on an almost daily basis in training and LJ regularly mentions players who ‘showed up well’ in training. I’m sure that’s a motivational tool. Think about the game last night....Wigan are particularly strong in midfield with Powell and Morsy and to combat them LJ added and extra player - Pato - to assist Pack and Brownhill. Consequently the game was a dull affair with neither team creating much. It was a superb cross and an even better header that won the game. Tough on City and even Paul Cook said that a draw would have been a fair result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Coach Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 26 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said: Exactly. He/she is either a bad communicator; has given them the wrong instructions;hasn't got a plan suitable to the skills of the workforce or has recruited the wrong people. @Robbored exactly this. We call this Extreme Ownership. If a team fails to deliver, you look towards their Manager. Did the Manager sell the vision? Did the Manager make clear what was required to get the job done? Did the Manager install belief in his team? If someone apart of that team has a tendency to fail to deliver time and time again. What did the Manager do to make a change? Unfortunately it goes back to the Manager and the Manager should take full blame. This is what makes one a successful leader. You have to let go of your own ego. Hence why the term is labelled as Extreme Ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One BCFC Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 Normally I'm a huge fan of Marlon Pack but his performances recently have been below standard. Lloyd Kelly may I also point out was the worst for passing the ball backwards last night when he had opportunities to play a more defence splitting pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 1 minute ago, One BCFC said: Normally I'm a huge fan of Marlon Pack but his performances recently have been below standard. Lloyd Kelly may I also point out was the worst for passing the ball backwards last night when he had opportunities to play a more defence splitting pass. I've noticed Kelly does that in most games, but he's a rookie left back so who can blame him. pack is supposed to be our quarter back with passing range, not Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon uk Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 If we finish this season in mid table we will have done well, so we are likely to lose as many gAmes as we win.We basically are left with 2 centre midfielders, and 3 games in 6 days, whAt do people expect will happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 21 minutes ago, BTRFTG said: Pack had a very poor outing last night but that in no way is deserving of the utter ridiculousness of this post. He IS the best passer at the club courtesy of the fact he's the ONLY creative passer we have at the club. As for stopping us going forward, slowing play down and giving the ball away.... For the latter at least there's an inherent risk when trying to be creative, so what's Hunt's, Brownhill's, Watkins's, Paterson's ( I could go on) excuse? Slowing play down, that's a WeeLee trademark they all do it, angles, triangles and inches. Great in the coaching manuals, crap if you've no midfield creativity or end product. So that leaves stopping us going forward. As per the game against Middlesbrough, guilty. They knew and quickly ensured they went man for man on him ( as any team who've done their homework should against us) and our response, oh yeah, we don't have one as we've nobody else who can pick a pass. Early days I was quite critical of his abilities but he's worked at his game and he's developed into a very useful unit. He's absolutely no pace (not something one can do much about,) but if he did he wouldn't be playing for us. CoD ended up in the middle because WeeLee's deluded enough to think we're wholly interchangable. That's why we pretty much only sign wingers yet ended up with Diggery playing wide most of last night. You have an opinion though most sensible folks would rather see CoD bombing down the wing crossing to the tall bloke in the box. I, too, wonder why Walsh bothers to turn up as on his previous showings he'd struggle to make Stockwood's stiffs. And finally the pedant. It's incorrect to postulate what it would have been like playing with 10 men. We did. WeeLee picked Paterson. Is he a microcosm of city then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted September 22, 2018 Admin Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 44 minutes ago, chinapig said: That's handy to know, the next time I mess up at work I'll blame my boss. Who needs the concept of personal responsibility anyway? So old fashioned. If my team at work fail, it's my responsibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 10 minutes ago, Red_Wizard said: @Robbored exactly this. We call this Extreme Ownership. If a team fails to deliver, you look towards their Manager. Did the Manager sell the vision? Did the Manager make clear what was required to get the job done? Did the Manager install belief in his team? If someone apart of that team has a tendency to fail to deliver time and time again. What did the Manager do to make a change? Unfortunately it goes back to the Manager and the Manager should take full blame. This is what makes one a successful leader. You have to let go of your own ego. Hence why the term is labelled as Extreme Ownership. I’m sure LJ believed he’d given the right strategy to get the job done but his team failed to deliver a positive result. Is that his fault or theirs? You can use all the management jarjon you want and ultimately the responsibility is the managers of course but I repeat, if your staff don’t do as instructed despite knowing the strategy then they have let you down and as LJ said post match that is very frustrating..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Robbored said: LJ and his assistants had obviously been working with the players on game plan but as others have said none of them played well and were unable to implement said game plan effectively. Thats why he said post match that he was ‘embarrassed and frustrated’ with the performance. As in any workplace if a manager shows and instructs his staff how to overcome a particular problem but the staff then fail to deliver, who is at fault? And who is leading them , inspiring them Whose squad is it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 37 minutes ago, Robbored said: Obviously he does. He and the coaches see all the players on an almost daily basis in training and LJ regularly mentions players who ‘showed up well’ in training. I’m sure that’s a motivational tool. Think about the game last night....Wigan are particularly strong in midfield with Powell and Morsy and to combat them LJ added and extra player - Pato - to assist Pack and Brownhill. Consequently the game was a dull affair with neither team creating much. It was a superb cross and an even better header that won the game. Tough on City and even Paul Cook said that a draw would have been a fair result. What a load of tosh Paterson in to ‘strengthen’ the midfield in a 4-4-2 Are you for real ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said: What a load of tosh Paterson in to ‘strengthen’ the midfield in a 4-4-2 Are you for real ? Who else Bob? CoD? who had played more matches because of the internationals..... We all know that with Smith out injured that the midfield is wafer thin. I’d argue that it worked tho but unfortunately City were undone by a very well taken goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engvall's Splinter Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 Big fan of Pack. For me he’s the first name on the team sheet. Has an eye for a pass and can dictate the tempo. Last night though, very poor. But not alone as most were as bad as each other. Wrong decisions from too many in the team both with and without the ball. We could’ve pinched an undeserved point though. A positive perhaps that we were so poor yet were still in the game till the death? Clutching much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 41 minutes ago, 054123 said: Is he a microcosm of city then? Unsurprisingly, if Pack does well so do City, if not the results are obvious given we've no Plan B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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