Pack....deserving his own thread

[The Coach]

32 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I’m sure LJ believed he’d given the right strategy to get the job done but his team failed to deliver a positive result. Is that his fault or theirs? 

You can use all the management jarjon you want and ultimately the responsibility is the managers of course but I repeat, if your staff don’t do as instructed despite knowing the strategy then they have let you down and as LJ said post match that is very frustrating.....

I’m sure he did, but evidence shows he did not. Now it is up to him to reflect where he failed, and how next time he can sell the vision of how he wants the team to set up and play.

It’s not jargon @Robbored. In the battlefield it’s that type of methodology between completing your objectives with 0 casualties. Or failing your mission with casualties. You can easily apply the same methodology in any workplace. As said again, yes it is frustrating. But the blame will still fall to Johnson, and rightfully so. 

[Super]

58 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Obviously he does. He and the coaches see all the players on an almost daily basis in training and LJ regularly mentions players who ‘showed up well’  in training. I’m sure that’s a motivational tool.

Think about the game last night....Wigan are particularly strong in midfield with Powell and Morsy and to combat them LJ added and extra player - Pato - to assist Pack and Brownhill. Consequently the game was a dull affair with neither team creating much. It was a superb cross and an even better header that won the game.

Tough on City and even Paul Cook said that a draw would have been a fair result.

 

Cant agree with that. Wigan didnt play great but they won every 50/50 and clearly wanted it more. Just for that they deserved to win.

[Up The City!]

1 hour ago, robin_unreliant said:

Exactly. He/she is either a bad communicator; has given them the wrong instructions;hasn't got a plan suitable to the skills of the workforce or has recruited the wrong people.

Whilst I think last night was an isolated performance I do tend to agree with you. But by and large I do think it was just a bad day at the office.

[Harry]

Pack was poor last night. But the biggest culprit for lack of ball retention and stupid decisions was Brownhill. 

[Robbored]

13 minutes ago, Super said:

Cant agree with that. Wigan didnt play great but they won every 50/50 and clearly wanted it more. Just for that they deserved to win.

The Wigan manager said a draw would have been a fair result but you obviously don’t agree with him either

 

 

[1960maaan]

11 minutes ago, Robbored said:

The Wigan manager said a draw would have been a fair result but you obviously don’t agree with him either

 

 

I think he was being kind, maybe because he realised they should have been down to ten men. I'm very blinkered when watching City, but even I tough that Wigan were far more threatening. I was amazed when I looked at the stats, their keeper didn't have a real save to make. 
2 poor sides on that evidence , looking at the table not so much maybe.

[...]

3 hours ago, Lee0 said:

Marlon Pack last night didn't just have a bad game, he had a game that was as poor a performance as I've ever seen from a so called defensive/controlling midfielder (and captain).

The general impression I've got from posters on this forum is that he's the best passer at the club, a leader, a possible premiership player..... pfffft.

Yes, I know he played 2 (whoop whoop) quality passes in the 2nd half but that's it, from our 'main man' ! 1st half was a non stop tirade of poor quality passes, not just the ones that were only 5 yd passes that went out of play, those are just embarrassing for the player, the really poor passes were ones that found a team mate and put him on the back foot or put him in a corner surrounded by opposition players.

Marlon stops us, as a team going forward, he slows play down or gives the ball away. 

COD showed last night (and more so against WBA) that he's capable of playing in the middle, I'm hoping he's soon given a chance there ahead of Marlon, COD and JB playing through the middle, attacking, looking to get forward.

The time has come to drop MP, with Korey out it seems as though he's untouchable (I wonder why Liam Walsh turns up).  we, as a team would of been better with 10 men last night.

 

 

One thing I cannot understand. Help me out here?

Why do some women find him attractive. He is like a younger Jimmy Hill.

[AppyDAZE]

16 minutes ago, ... said:

One thing I cannot understand. Help me out here?

Why do some women find him attractive. He is like a younger Jimmy Hill.

It's cos Jimmy Hill was HOT 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, MattWSM said:

We dont have a real potent striker.

Famara Diedhou missed several opportunities to score. He is not championship standard nor is Taylor. They can perform but lack consistency to be a real threat at this level.

So you can argue all you like with Taylors actual goals to minutes (not games as most were sub appearances) but he does a lot more for the team than get goals, but Fammys goals to minutes ratio is superb and definitely Championship standard. He would have got 20+ last season if it wasn't for his injury - what more can you ask??

Out of interest who should we go and buy in your opinion that are available for 5.3 million and 300k to replace those 2?

[The Swan and Cemetery]

1 hour ago, Red_Wizard said:

@Robbored exactly this. We call this Extreme Ownership. If a team fails to deliver, you look towards their Manager. Did the Manager sell the vision? Did the Manager  make clear what was required to get the job done? Did the Manager install belief in his team? If someone apart of that team has a tendency to fail to deliver time and time again. What did the Manager do to make a change?

Unfortunately it goes back to the Manager and the Manager should take full blame. This is what makes one a successful leader. You have to let go of your own ego. Hence why the term is labelled as Extreme Ownership.

The manager will be working to instructions of those above him/her, so does that absolve Johnson from blame, as Ashton hasn’t correctly inspired/directed him, who in turn hasn’t been appropriately directed by Lansdown?

Seems perfectly reasonable (and would happen in any workplace I’ve been in) to lay accountability at all those who’ve contributed to something going wrong, in last night’s case both manager and players. To remove all accountability from the players seems to suggest the ‘workers’ have no ability to make choices re their own effort/performance etc. Set up/tactics, Johnson needs to take responsibility, effort/bottling tackles etc, surely the players can make choices, not rely on external motivation from others (and if it does have to be external - don’t think it does - receipt of a very decent salary might suffice)?

[Cowshed]

3 hours ago, Lee0 said:

Marlon Pack last night didn't just have a bad game, he had a game that was as poor a performance as I've ever seen from a so called defensive/controlling midfielder (and captain).

The general impression I've got from posters on this forum is that he's the best passer at the club, a leader, a possible premiership player..... pfffft.

Yes, I know he played 2 (whoop whoop) quality passes in the 2nd half but that's it, from our 'main man' ! 1st half was a non stop tirade of poor quality passes, not just the ones that were only 5 yd passes that went out of play, those are just embarrassing for the player, the really poor passes were ones that found a team mate and put him on the back foot or put him in a corner surrounded by opposition players.

Marlon stops us, as a team going forward, he slows play down or gives the ball away. 

COD showed last night (and more so against WBA) that he's capable of playing in the middle, I'm hoping he's soon given a chance there ahead of Marlon, COD and JB playing through the middle, attacking, looking to get forward.

The time has come to drop MP, with Korey out it seems as though he's untouchable (I wonder why Liam Walsh turns up).  we, as a team would of been better with 10 men last night.

 

 

Your post is a little uneven.

What is the role of a defensive holding midfielder?

If you consider it to be part supportive, resetting possession, providing an option to retain possession the role has to frequently slow the game down. 

According to squawka and stats bomb 68% of Marlon Packs passes go forward and 80% hit their target, it is not Micheal Carrick but its not bad. 

[Red-Robbo]

It's fairly straightforward: when Pack has a bad game, the entire side struggles. He really is the lynchpin and we depend on him to get the motor running.

We've seen it before - and we'll see it again, sadly.

That isn't exaggerating Marlon's merits as a player. It's just the way this team slots together. 

An in-form Pack starts most of the forward moves and also breaks up attacks coming centrally, stopping runners coming straight onto the defenders. An out-of-form Pack does neither and is a liability.

 

[Robbored]

7 minutes ago, The Swan and Cemetery said:

The manager will be working to instructions of those above him/her, so does that absolve Johnson from blame, as Ashton hasn’t correctly inspired/directed him, who in turn hasn’t been appropriately directed by Lansdown?

Absolute nonsense. 

SL nor MA dictate who should play in any match. That decision is entirely down to LJ who considers the views of his assistants before selecting a match day squad.

Most, if not all  managers would not be prepared to have the owner or CEO telling him who to select.

 

[The Swan and Cemetery]

12 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Absolute nonsense. 

SL nor MA dictate who should play in any match. That decision is entirely down to LJ who considers the views of his assistants before selecting a match day squad.

Most, if not all  managers would not be prepared to have the owner or CEO telling him who to select.

 

That’s very much the opposite of the point I was making. Hoped my full post made that clear, but maybe it didn’t. I’ll seek further instruction from my manager. 

[Nogbad the Bad]

Pack seemed to be emerging as a leader, even cajoling others when he himself was not playing well.

False dawn it seems, unfortunately, no signs of captaincy or leadership last night, and an intermittent leader is no leader at all.

[Leveller]

It continues to amaze me that a player or team gets flayed like this after a couple of bad results, despite the previous four wins. Can’t people get a grip?

[Nogbad the Bad]

3 minutes ago, Leveller said:

It continues to amaze me that a player or team gets flayed like this after a couple of bad results, despite the previous four wins. Can’t people get a grip?

It's not so much the result it's more the completely lacklustre and unfocused performance.

No excuse for such a display whatsoever and fans have every right to be very disappointed, and very critical.

[Leveller]

3 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

It's not so much the result it's more the completely lacklustre and unfocused performance.

No excuse for such a display whatsoever and fans have every right to be very disappointed, and very critical.

It’s one game. They don’t do it on purpose. As long as good performances outnumber bad ones, people should react appropriately. By all means criticise one game, but dont react as if the whole setup is now rotten. Which many do, sadly.

[Nogbad the Bad]

2 hours ago, Leveller said:

It’s one game. They don’t do it on purpose. As long as good performances outnumber bad ones, people should react appropriately. By all means criticise one game, but dont react as if the whole setup is now rotten. Which many do, sadly.

Agree up to a point, however I think you're being a little over protective to what are, after all, professional sportsmen and coaches.

Of course we we accept we will lose games, but even then there is a standard of performance and effort we have a right to expect in every game.

When the players fall far below that standard, like last night, concerns and criticisms will naturally be aired.

The City fans in the pub where I watched the game were fuming at that performance and it's only right imo. that those feelings should be reflected on here.

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 hours ago, Leveller said:

It’s one game. They don’t do it on purpose. As long as good performances outnumber bad ones, people should react appropriately. By all means criticise one game, but dont react as if the whole setup is now rotten. Which many do, sadly.

Not just one game though Leveller

Its happened throughout his tenure

It was the NATURE of the performance that was so galling 

And in (very basic) summary of this season to date

 

Results / points return - acceptable if not decent 

But let’s think performances

Forest - played well for under half the game - battled to see out a point

Boro - beaten at a canter - could have been out there till Easter and not scored

Bolton - Jekyll and Hyde - played ‘ok’ but schoolboy defending costs us two points 

QPR - Poor first half until we get the first goal  which changes game

Swansea - the one game I didn’t see , going by the positive reports Accept that we bossed most of this game

Blackburn - Fortunate not to concede again after their goal as we wobble like a jelly for 20-25mins Decent second half response

Sheff Utd - Started well , then Hyde as we surrendered possession and opportunities , battling it out for a commendanpble win

WBA - ‘Play well ‘ But schoolboy defending and a half hour meltdown ensures no points

Wigan - An abysmal 90 minute performance with not a shred of desire , balls or reaction

 

Jekyll and Hyde. , often game to game and often in games 

 

Not convincing is it

 

[RedM]

9 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

It's fairly straightforward: when Pack has a bad game, the entire side struggles. He really is the lynchpin and we depend on him to get the motor running.

We've seen it before - and we'll see it again, sadly.

That isn't exaggerating Marlon's merits as a player. It's just the way this team slots together. 

An in-form Pack starts most of the forward moves and also breaks up attacks coming centrally, stopping runners coming straight onto the defenders. An out-of-form Pack does neither and is a liability.

 

I think he’s struggling to do his job and be Captain to his teamates in games like this. I like him as Captain but when things aren’t going well people look to the Captain to sort things out, the spotlight is on him. That’s ok if you are on top of your game but if you are having a torrid time everything is magnified and the pressure mounts. 

[Leveller]

3 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Not just one game though Leveller

Its happened throughout his tenure

It was the NATURE of the performance that was so galling 

And in (very basic) summary of this season to date

 

Results / points return - acceptable if not decent 

But let’s think performances

Forest - played well for under half the game - battled to see out a point

Boro - beaten at a canter - could have been out there till Easter and not scored

Bolton - Jekyll and Hyde - played ‘ok’ but schoolboy defending costs us two points 

QPR - Poor first half until we get the first goal  which changes game

Swansea - the one game I didn’t see , going by the positive reports Accept that we bossed most of this game

Blackburn - Fortunate not to concede again after their goal as we wobble like a jelly for 20-25mins Decent second half response

Sheff Utd - Started well , then Hyde as we surrendered possession and opportunities , battling it out for a commendanpble win

WBA - ‘Play well ‘ But schoolboy defending and a half hour meltdown ensures no points

Wigan - An abysmal 90 minute performance with not a shred of desire , balls or reaction

 

Jekyll and Hyde. , often game to game and often in games 

 

Not convincing is it

 

However, when we have played well in the past but lost due to late goals etc, it has been all “it’s the result that matters”. Either it is or it isn’t. You seem to need a dominating performance throughout every game to be satisfied. It would be nice, but it isn’t going to happen and it isn’t a reasonable standard to set for most clubs.

[Davefevs]

13 hours ago, Super said:

Cant agree with that. Wigan didnt play great but they won every 50/50 and clearly wanted it more. Just for that they deserved to win.

They did, but they lacked quality in the final third....

13 hours ago, Robbored said:

The Wigan manager said a draw would have been a fair result but you obviously don’t agree with him either

 

 

...apart from the goal.  On chances a draw was the right result.  On endeavour, hard work, getting into the final third, Wigan were far better.

I do think Paul Cook will be saying slightly different things behind closed doors.  He’ll be delighted with the way his team played.

[BobBobSuperBob]

7 hours ago, Leveller said:

However, when we have played well in the past but lost due to late goals etc, it has been all “it’s the result that matters”. Either it is or it isn’t. You seem to need a dominating performance throughout every game to be satisfied. It would be nice, but it isn’t going to happen and it isn’t a reasonable standard to set for most clubs.

Nonsense

Looking for consistency Leveller , and a sign of progress , and certainly effort and desire , Rather than the constant highs and dips in games and from week to week 

When we have a wobble in games or through games it’s extreme and our performance disintegrates for a period at least - that’s not good , but a lack of application , not tracking back , pulling out of challenges , hiding is unacceptable whoever the players and manager

Surely not that difficult to understand is it

 

If you are ok to accept  a disgraceful lack of application and desire in any game bigger fool you

 

You found  Friday night acceptable did you ?

How about commenting on what was turned out .........

Half decent sides may have off days , but they don’t turn out feeble lack of desire performances , a constant Achilles  throughout his tenure 

Look at peoples  reaction to losing to and shipping four at WBA and a 1-0 defeat at Wigan and work out why the difference 

[Major Isewater]

On 22/09/2018 at 09:52, JonDolman said:

Really was very bad last night. Almost every forward pass went to Wigan. I think there has been three or four poor performances now from Marlon this season which has surprised me.

Lloyd Kelly played one sublime ball on the ground down the wing only for Pato to lose it for a throw in . 

[TV Tom]

22 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

It's fairly straightforward: when Pack has a bad game, the entire side struggles. He really is the lynchpin and we depend on him to get the motor running.

We've seen it before - and we'll see it again, sadly.

That isn't exaggerating Marlon's merits as a player. It's just the way this team slots together. 

An in-form Pack starts most of the forward moves and also breaks up attacks coming centrally, stopping runners coming straight onto the defenders. An out-of-form Pack does neither and is a liability.

 

What nonsense, you make him out to be some super player when in fact he is very limited, there’s a reason why no other club came in for him during the summer 

[Red-Robbo]

14 hours ago, RedM said:

I think he’s struggling to do his job and be Captain to his teamates in games like this. I like him as Captain but when things aren’t going well people look to the Captain to sort things out, the spotlight is on him. That’s ok if you are on top of your game but if you are having a torrid time everything is magnified and the pressure mounts. 

He certainly wouldn't be the first City player to find the captaincy a burden, M.

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, harrys said:

What nonsense, you make him out to be some super player when in fact he is very limited, there’s a reason why no other club came in for him during the summer 

You obviously didn't read where I wrote "this is not exaggerating his merits as a player".

Try reading the whole post then puting your brain in gear before typing a reply.

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

He certainly wouldn't be the first City player to find the captaincy a burden, M.

I think he is really enjoying it.  It was a poor performance all-round on Friday.  

[TV Tom]

1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

You obviously didn't read where I wrote "this is not exaggerating his merits as a player".

Try reading the whole post then puting your brain in gear before typing a reply.

My comment was more aimed at you calling Pack our “Lynch pin” and stating that when Pack has a poor game the whole team play bad, also despite my age my brain is fully in gear thank you. As I stated, there is a reason why no one came in for Pack during the summer