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Pack....deserving his own thread


Lee0

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4 hours ago, Lee0 said:

Don't think I've ever seen a longer post that says nothing, well done.

Agenda.....? What agenda could I possibly have ? .... I'm just posting an opinion, could be wrong but definitely not proven to be so.

schooling, proven, quite clearly, embarrassing ? Nice words but none of them backed up.

If you've only seen him have a poor couple of games this season then you've only seen a couple of games.

Ive no idea who you are, but this 

Pack, quite clearly, has the best passing range at this club. That is why he is chosen by the manager to be the lynchpin/dynamo/quarterback, whatever you want to call it. It’s a clear strength of his that he rarely loses the ball, 

Followed with this 

Pack has definitely played about 10-15 very poor passes in the last 2-3 games. 

Suggest you're just a gob*hite that's been out on a Saturday night and had a couple too many.

Nah, didn’t have any beers last night. Stone cold sober in fact. 

The two comments you quoted do not suggest I’m any kind of *hite, let alone a ‘gob’ one. They suggest that I am being rightly critical of Pack’s recent performances. Yes, he is the best passer at the club. Which is why he’s entrusted to be the man who sets the tone of our play. But he has had a couple of poor games. That doesn’t mean he is no longer the best ball player we have, it just means he’s had a couple of bad games. 

Well done on resorting to calling me a foul name though - that suggests to me that you have nothing of value to put up in defence of your embarrassing attack on our most consistent performer of over 3 years in this league. 

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3 minutes ago, Harry said:

Nah, didn’t have any beers last night. Stone cold sober in fact. 

The two comments you quoted do not suggest I’m any kind of *hite, let alone a ‘gob’ one. They suggest that I am being rightly critical of Pack’s recent performances. Yes, he is the best passer at the club. Which is why he’s entrusted to be the man who sets the tone of our play. But he has had a couple of poor games. That doesn’t mean he is no longer the best ball player we have, it just means he’s had a couple of bad games. 

Well done on resorting to calling me a foul name though - that suggests to me that you have nothing of value to put up in defence of your embarrassing attack on our most consistent performer of over 3 years in this league. 

The problem with our current style is that LJ has Pack as our Bagpuss....and if Bagpuss doesn’t play well, nor do the mice in the mouse-organ.  Other teams know that.  I don’t see enough / many / any (?) “game influencers” in our squad, players that can wrestle the game by the scruff of the neck.  When Pack is being constrained where are the other players taking advantage of the oppositions emphasis on stopping Pack.

That is a tactical issue LJ needs to overcome / resolve.

Its easy to just blame Pack.

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2 hours ago, MC RISK77 said:

Ok COD is a winger has always been so and as such would have been developed as such through his career to play as wingers do.

his natural tendency will be to go forward and attack.

holding midfielders have to be disciplined go forward when necessary but maintain a comfortable position and not isolate their back 3 or 4. COD naturally won’t do this.

then you have the fact that pack is superior in the air a stronger tackler and a better passer and retainer of the ball.

playing COD in a holding midfield role alongside brownhill would be weak as piss, you do not have the margin for error in the championship to play players who have no experience in a certain position.

some suggested on here that hegeler could play centre back...we saw how that worked out against Leeds last year.

Pack has had a poor month I would suggest but he has been a consistent performer over a number of years now and will not be replaced by COD.

We're both entitled to an opinion....mine was that it needs changing, not that COD was a ready made replacement, after the WBA game when he had played in the middle (with MP) I suggested that he could be worth a try.

With the present form of MP I still think he could be worth a try.

Consistent performer over a number of years, fair enongh. Poor all this season, imo, yes.

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1 hour ago, Harry said:

Nah, didn’t have any beers last night. Stone cold sober in fact. 

The two comments you quoted do not suggest I’m any kind of *hite, let alone a ‘gob’ one. They suggest that I am being rightly critical of Pack’s recent performances. Yes, he is the best passer at the club. Which is why he’s entrusted to be the man who sets the tone of our play. But he has had a couple of poor games. That doesn’t mean he is no longer the best ball player we have, it just means he’s had a couple of bad games. 

Well done on resorting to calling me a foul name though - that suggests to me that you have nothing of value to put up in defence of your embarrassing attack on our most consistent performer of over 3 years in this league. 

Hahaha...

This 'best passer at the club line' is being spouted by a few, but either they've not seen a game this season or only remember 5 (or us it 6?) yard passes. There's not been a game this season that warrants that tag.

You called me a foul name so you're wrong !! How precious, that suggests to me that you're 10 years old,  I'll apologise to your parents if you're upset.

Last 3 seasons gave him leeway for the start of this season, how many more poor performances can he have before being dropped ?

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

The problem with our current style is that LJ has Pack as our Bagpuss....and if Bagpuss doesn’t play well, nor do the mice in the mouse-organ.  Other teams know that.  I don’t see enough / many / any (?) “game influencers” in our squad, players that can wrestle the game by the scruff of the neck.  When Pack is being constrained where are the other players taking advantage of the oppositions emphasis on stopping Pack.

That is a tactical issue LJ needs to overcome / resolve.

Its easy to just blame Pack.

Though that's fair enough Dave, it's also easy to just blame LJ.

I'm hoping he has a brilliant game, leads and enthuses the team, passes beautifully and looks to get the team going forward today.... I'll come on here, apologise to you and put my hands up and say it's a fair cop.... I genuinely want that to happen.

 

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10 minutes ago, Lee0 said:

Hahaha...

This 'best passer at the club line' is being spouted by a few, but either they've not seen a game this season or only remember 5 (or us it 6?) yard passes. There's not been a game this season that warrants that tag.

You called me a foul name so you're wrong !! How precious, that suggests to me that you're 10 years old,  I'll apologise to your parents if you're upset.

Last 3 seasons gave him leeway for the start of this season, how many more poor performances can he have before being dropped ?

You’re demonstrating an immature nature yourself by calling others names and suggesting that you need to speak to my parents. If you can find my dad, good luck to you. I’m 44 and haven’t seen him in 20 years, so go for it buddy. 

Yes, I do strongly maintain that Pack is the best passer of the ball at the club. Why else is he entrusted to perform the role that he does? If you would let your barriers down just a little, you will actually see that I am in agreement with you that he’s had a few poor games this season, and I have written that he’s misplaced numerous passes in the last 2-3 games. Your argument is that because he’s misplaced 10-15 passes over a few games that he’s not very good at passing the ball. I would argue that he is suffering a loss of form and that his book of work over his previous 450 professional appearances strongly suggests that he is a very good passer of the ball. 

I’m not 10 years old, I’m not a gob*shite, I’m not drunk. Perhaps you might wish to stop attacking me and defend your own point of view. 

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Maybe MP's drop in performance has something to do with the total lack of competition for his place.

We can't see an obvious replacement so I'm sure he must see that too. I'm not saying it's deliberate, just that mentally it must generate a bit of complacency.

Maybe being made captain has had a negative effect too. Some players don't react well to the added responsibility. Problem is there are no obvious leaders in the squad who could take that job either.

 

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33 minutes ago, Lee0 said:

Though that's fair enough Dave, it's also easy to just blame LJ.

I'm hoping he has a brilliant game, leads and enthuses the team, passes beautifully and looks to get the team going forward today.... I'll come on here, apologise to you and put my hands up and say it's a fair cop.... I genuinely want that to happen.

 

Not blaming only LJ...see other thread re others becoming influencers

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Pack is a vital player for us, hence LJ continuing to play him in the hope he plays himself back into form.

Such leniency can't go on forever though - he is now an experienced player, and such experience really should lead to consistent performances. LJ obviously views him as normally very reliable in that respect, hence the Captaincy. A blip from such a usually dependable player can be tolerated but if current form continues we may be close to a time when perhaps a rest is the best solution all round.

Hopefully that won't be necessary and we'll start to see the best of Marlon again today.

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1 minute ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Pack is a vital player for us, hence LJ continuing to play him in the hope he plays himself back into form.

Such leniency can't go on forever though - he is now an experienced player, and such experience really should lead to consistent performances. LJ obviously views him as normally very reliable in that respect, hence the Captaincy. A blip from such a usually dependable player can be tolerated but if current form continues we may be close to a time when perhaps a rest is the best solution all round.

Hopefully that won't be necessary and we'll start to see the best of Marlon again today.

SPOT on

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I wasn't going to raise this thread from the dead but just for fairness I thought I should.

Yesterday, first half was Marlons best half of the season for me, yep, there were still some poor passes, some out of play, a terrible free kick but that's ok, there's never been a player that can play error free !  I think a lot of this was down to him playing 5/10 yds in front of where he's been for the last few games, Webster and Baker gave him the ball in this position and he'd look to play quickly (often first time) out wide, turn if he was given the call or, if he was marked, he'd pull the player out and either JP or JB would come to get but it also created space so that either of the cbs would carry the ball forward, there was no (hardly any) knocking it around at the back. He was so much more effective.

Wish he played like that every 45.

 

 

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On ‎07‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 09:49, Harry said:

You’re demonstrating an immature nature yourself by calling others names and suggesting that you need to speak to my parents. If you can find my dad, good luck to you. I’m 44 and haven’t seen him in 20 years, so go for it buddy. 

Yes, I do strongly maintain that Pack is the best passer of the ball at the club. Why else is he entrusted to perform the role that he does? If you would let your barriers down just a little, you will actually see that I am in agreement with you that he’s had a few poor games this season, and I have written that he’s misplaced numerous passes in the last 2-3 games. Your argument is that because he’s misplaced 10-15 passes over a few games that he’s not very good at passing the ball. I would argue that he is suffering a loss of form and that his book of work over his previous 450 professional appearances strongly suggests that he is a very good passer of the ball. 

I’m not 10 years old, I’m not a gob*shite, I’m not drunk. Perhaps you might wish to stop attacking me and defend your own point of view. 

I strongly maintain that Pack is not the best passer of the ball. He is entrusted with that role as LJ will simply not put anyone else in there. He has more than a few bad games this season but will not be dropped. That's said, I do think he is a decent CM experiencing a dip in form. Martin O'Neill seems to be playing COD in a central position Vs USA/Poland and Callum was arguably MOTM. I also think Eliasson has potential to play more centrally - he is fast, very skilful and always looks to go forward. LJ seems completely wedded to the MP/JB partnership

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7 hours ago, Sixtyseconds said:

Marlon Pack

Appearances  40

Assists 6

Chances create 31

Kalvin Philips

Appearances 39

Assists 3

Chances created 25

Source Squawka

 

40 appearances ? 

We've played a dozen games this season !

I don't care what he did last season or when he was u14s captain.

This season he has been poor, no stats can convince me otherwise.

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On ‎06‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 19:09, Lee0 said:

Think you need to watch the game again, there were times when Phillips was further forward than anyone, Klich would drop in for him. yes, it was a 4-1-4-1 but Phillips wasn't always the 1 was he ?  Phillips never sat on the edge of his own box playing numerous passes to the keeper and fbs either, it was win the ball, let's go forward football.

Yes Philips plays on the edge of his box particularly as he has been played as a CB in a three man back line.  but Phillips wasn't always the 1 was he ? Very very often he is.

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Pack has been nowhere near as effective these past 6 games and for one very simple reason. The opposition have understood going man for man on him neutralises ALL our creative capability. Sunday when they lost possession Penney dropped back and stuck to him like **** to a blanket.

Irrespective of how poor you think Pack's been playing drop him and you've already done the opposition's work for them.

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51 minutes ago, Three Lions said:

Yes Philips plays on the edge of his box particularly as he has been played as a CB in a three man back line.  but Phillips wasn't always the 1 was he ? Very very often he is.

No, he hasn't, Leeds have played a flat back 4 this season (I would say every game this season but there are a couple of games I've not seen).

Phillips plays in front of them, yep, often he is the one that sits in there but his first thought isn't to play to a fb,ch or gk...... the same as it wasn't MPs on Sunday.... and he looked and played much better for not doing that.

 

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57 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Pack has been nowhere near as effective these past 6 games and for one very simple reason. The opposition have understood going man for man on him neutralises ALL our creative capability. Sunday when they lost possession Penney dropped back and stuck to him like **** to a blanket.

Irrespective of how poor you think Pack's been playing drop him and you've already done the opposition's work for them.

6 games ?.... I'd of said this season.

I thought he had his best 45 minutes of the season 1st half on Sunday due to him pushing forward 10 yds, there were times when he was tightly marked, he just took the marker away and it created space for others.... that's the game !

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58 minutes ago, Three Lions said:

Its always relevant . If his game has altered in months. Why? Something will have changed.

Personnel have changed, the teams system (or lack of) has changed. 

Probably a bit unfair to compare old stats to current ones for that reason.

I know what I see each week irrelevant of a few stats.

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The problem is with Pack and a few others is that they know they won't be dropped as we have nobody to replace them. LJ doesn't seem to have any faith in Walsh and with Korey injured we have nothing else.

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2 minutes ago, Super said:

The problem is with Pack and a few others is that they know they won't be dropped as we have nobody to replace them. LJ doesn't seem to have any faith in Walsh and with Korey injured we have nothing else.

Agreed, which is why when asked who I thought could play there I suggested COD as he has had some time there, I don't know that he could do a job for 90 minutes there but I'd guess that it's been looked at he has been given time more centrally by both of his current managers.

I'd like to see Walsh given at least a chance but that's running on another thread !

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11 minutes ago, Lee0 said:

Agreed, which is why when asked who I thought could play there I suggested COD as he has had some time there, I don't know that he could do a job for 90 minutes there but I'd guess that it's been looked at he has been given time more centrally by both of his current managers.

I'd like to see Walsh given at least a chance but that's running on another thread !

Are you going to keep this thread going all season?  Seems a bit harsh to keep on Pack's back.  Like all City players, he will have good games and bad games, there is really no point to keep such a score against him.  Was there ever a time you thought he played well?  Did you start a thread and keep it running then?

I rate Pack, met him a few times and he's a top bloke who cares about City.  If he played as well as you like every game he'd be in the Prem or at someone like Boro with Flint.

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13 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

Are you going to keep this thread going all season?  Seems a bit harsh to keep on Pack's back.  Like all City players, he will have good games and bad games, there is really no point to keep such a score against him.  Was there ever a time you thought he played well?  Did you start a thread and keep it running then?

I rate Pack, met him a few times and he's a top bloke who cares about City.  If he played as well as you like every game he'd be in the Prem or at someone like Boro with Flint.

You've clearly not read my last few posts on this thread. I came back to be fair to MP after Sunday and then answered other posts out of courtesy, a bit like this one !

Perhaps if you  didn't feed the monster it would die.

I've met MP a few times too, smashing bloke. 

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1 hour ago, Lee0 said:

No, he hasn't, Leeds have played a flat back 4 this season (I would say every game this season but there are a couple of games I've not seen).

Phillips plays in front of them, yep, often he is the one that sits in there but his first thought isn't to play to a fb,ch or gk...... the same as it wasn't MPs on Sunday.... and he looked and played much better for not doing that.

 

Its like panto. If you have not seen games you wont have seen it. Then you destroy your own points. Some points you make up and cant back up.

1 hour ago, Lee0 said:

Personnel have changed, the teams system (or lack of) has changed. 

Probably a bit unfair to compare old stats to current ones for that reason.

I know what I see each week irrelevant of a few stats.

Its not unfair at all. Posters are making points about movement in front of Pack. That can be a problem for Pack and the team and its form. You in this thread don't know and have been called out and proven 100% wrong.

Harry was right about getting schooled.  

 

 

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'Lee0' is definitely the right moniker for this lad (lass?).

The '0' bit represents what he/she knows about football - sweet f..k all.

You can always tell armchair critics from those who have actually played or managed the game at any level. When the observations of armchair critics are exposed for the nonsense they often are, their retorts become increasingly more angry/abusive (especially at 3.23 a.m. on a Sunday).

Then, he does appear to be a Leeds fan ....... 

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17 minutes ago, Three Lions said:

Its like panto. If you have not seen games you wont have seen it. Then you destroy your own points. Some points you make up and cant back up.

Its not unfair at all. Posters are making points about movement in front of Pack. That can be a problem for Pack and the team and its form. You in this thread don't know and have been called out and proven 100% wrong.

Harry was right about getting schooled.  

 

 

So which games didn't they play a 4 ?.... back up your point that they did, I said I wouldn't comment on games I didn't see, you show us all the game that he did play in a 5 !......thought not, another keyboard warrior.

Ive been schooled by someone who has a different opinion ? Is that the criteria for schooling ? 

I blamed MP for slow play and bad passing which was the (for me) cause of lack of movement.... someone blamed lack of movement for his slow play and bad passing....that's fine, no problem, just things seen differently.

stop being a psycophant, remove your tongue from Harry and prove YOUR point.

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1 minute ago, Sir Leigh of Somerset said:

'Lee0' is definitely the right moniker for this lad (lass?).

The '0' bit represents what he/she knows about football - sweet f..k all.

You can always tell armchair critics from those who have actually played or managed the game at any level. When the observations of armchair critics are exposed for the nonsense they often are, their retorts become increasingly more angry/abusive (especially at 3.23 a.m. on a Sunday).

Then, he does appear to be a Leeds fan ....... 

Hahahaha....the boy/girl that has said nothing has popped in, a break between lessons perhaps.

Im a city fan of over 40 years, I don't miss many games away, none home, I like Leeds. UEFA C licence, stopped midway through attaining my B due to lack of time.

Show us yours...... quick though.... the bells about to go

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Obviously Lee0 can be just as angry/abusive on a Tuesday afternoon as he can be at 3.23 a.m. on a Sunday!

Worryingly for someone who must be around 50+ (and much younger than me!), he seems to have a thing about 10 year olds, school lessons and school bells. Freud would probably have diagnosed some sort of repressed childhood incident that has prevented him from moving on in his life whereas I'd just say he was a complete knob with the brain cells of an amoeba who spouts a load of carp about football ......

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