David Cotterill and Depression

[CyderInACan]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45579754

Quite an interesting read. There must be numerous players at every club suffering from mental health issues of varying degrees - I wonder what strategy there is to help at City if players want to see someone about an important aspect of their health that a physio or nutritionist can’t help with. 

Glad to see that he’s getting help and is focussed on helping himself get better. 

[RedM]

14 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45579754

Quite an interesting read. There must be numerous players at every club suffering from mental health issues of varying degrees - I wonder what strategy there is to help at City if players want to see someone about an important aspect of their health that a physio or nutritionist can’t help with. 

Glad to see that he’s getting help and is focussed on helping himself get better. 

City have always had a Chaplin, I guess they still do. This was before Councillers and therapists were even thought of, I guess he or she could be a person to turn to no matter if you are religious or not.

I would think there are a lot of people, not just players who know about the difficulties Cotterill talks about. On the news this morning students starting Uni were mentioned. 

Ok most people don’t have thousands of eyes on you when you work, but from my experience of working with people in Social Services a lot of stress is stemmed from a lack of money, poor housing and being a lone parent. I don’t think the majority of footballers experience two of those reasons, or probably not all three. Cotterill says it’s deeper than money, and yes obviously it is but that’s also easy to say if you are driving round a Bentley etc. Hardly any of the people I worked with had their own transport, buses and buggies at best. 

[Gazred]

Mental health issues know no bounds. Can effect any of us at anytime in your life. Great that he as kept himself going and still been a very solid pro throughout his career. The main thing is getting it out there, never keep it bottled up inside, talk.

[RedM]

1 minute ago, Gazred said:

Mental health issues know no bounds. Can effect any of us at anytime in your life. Great that he as kept himself going and still been a very solid pro throughout his career. The main thing is getting it out there, never keep it bottled up inside, talk.

This seems to be the hurdle that is the hardest to overcome. You are seen as a failure or weak if you admit not coping or asking for help, no doubt greatly intensified in the male macho world of sport. 

But once people have said something, shared the problem it seems a huge weight is lifted from them and they must wonder why they couldn’t do it before. I guess it is hard thinking you are a failure and then what seems like burdening another person with your problems. For many they just can’t do that and it ends badly. Hopefully with more and more people speaking out, especially people from sport, tv, music etc ‘ordinary’ people will feel there is help out there and find it. 

[Robbored]

It’s not that uncommon unfortunately. 

Clarke Carlisle is a well know example and the best way to deal with it is to talk with others who understand and/or have suffered the same condition. 

Alcohol is never the answer. Dean Windass spent all day every day in the pub having really struggled to return to normal life after retirement. Booze it’s self is a depressive when used over a long period and simply disables the sufferer even more. Without getting too technical it’s about the effect of alcohol on the brain chemistry. The suicide rate amongst dependent drinkers is higher than in any other condition.

At a guess I’d estimate that around 80% of the dependent drinkers I worked with over 26 years were depressed. 

Most GPs will prescribe anti depressants but imv that’s simply papering over the cracks. 

Hopefully Cotterill will fully recover.

 

[Major Isewater]

Depression is a physical illness, like Diabetes, asthma or any other malady,

It shouldn't be stigmatised and can be treated.

 

[CyderInACan]

1 hour ago, RedM said:

Cotterill says it’s deeper than money, and yes obviously it is but that’s also easy to say if you are driving round a Bentley etc.

The type of car you may or may not drive has nothing to do with it and it’s harsh to suggest otherwise. Maybe that kind of comment is typical of the microclimate that footballers etc live in - people thinking you can’t be depressed as you’ve got a big house/flash car/loads of money etc etc 

[MarcusX]

2 hours ago, RedM said:

City have always had a Chaplin, I guess they still do. This was before Councillers and therapists were even thought of, I guess he or she could be a person to turn to no matter if you are religious or not.

I would think there are a lot of people, not just players who know about the difficulties Cotterill talks about. On the news this morning students starting Uni were mentioned. 

Ok most people don’t have thousands of eyes on you when you work, but from my experience of working with people in Social Services a lot of stress is stemmed from a lack of money, poor housing and being a lone parent. I don’t think the majority of footballers experience two of those reasons, or probably not all three. Cotterill says it’s deeper than money, and yes obviously it is but that’s also easy to say if you are driving round a Bentley etc. Hardly any of the people I worked with had their own transport, buses and buggies at best. 

I wondered how many posts we'd have until someone made a comment about money etc. No one chooses to become depressed no more than they choose to have cancer or any other serious illness. The car you drive or the money you have doesn't stop you from becoming depressed.

Also as it says in the article it stems from his childhood and before he became a footballer.

[RedM]

@CyderInACan @MarcusXI didn’t say it was all about the money. You still get depression and cancers etc whether you have money or not, thought that was obvious that people know that. All I said in my experience some of the most vulnerable people got into a spiral of depression which stemmed from having money, housing, relationship problems. Money of course helps, can take away a lot of other worries ( private treatment, no NHS waiting lists, transport, accommodation etc) but of course cause others ( can afford to drink, not work etc) but you misread me when you think I am saying it is cause or cure. 

[BigAl&Toby]

2 minutes ago, RedM said:

@CyderInACan @MarcusXI didn’t say it was all about the money. You still get depression and cancers etc whether you have money or not, thought that was obvious that people know that. All I said in my experience some of the most vulnerable people got into a spiral of depression which stemmed from having money, housing, relationship problems. Money of course helps, can take away a lot of other worries ( private treatment, no NHS waiting lists, transport, accommodation etc) but of course cause others ( can afford to drink, not work etc) but you misread me when you think I am saying it is cause or cure. 

Dangerous ground talking about what might trigger mental illness as I think you’ve now found out.

Probably best not to say anything other than it can affect each and everyone of us at any and sometimes many times.

I live with mine every day of the week. I had weekly sessions with a counsellor for 6 months. In the end sunshine and the allotment helped as much as anything else.

Many of us have demons or difficulties. Thankfully mine pass and I know that they will. Sometimes it takes longer than other times or longer than I’d hope. But they pass.

Hang in there if that happens to be you.

And if you ever want to join me to do some weeding you’d be more than welcome. As long as you’re happy to sit on my Williams seats and bitch about the Lansdowns

[RedM]

8 minutes ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

Dangerous ground talking about what might trigger mental illness as I think you’ve now found out.

Probably best not to say anything other than it can affect each and everyone of us at any and sometimes many times.

I live with mine every day of the week. I had weekly sessions with a counsellor for 6 months. In the end sunshine and the allotment helped as much as anything else.

Many of us have demons or difficulties. Thankfully mine pass and I know that they will. Sometimes it takes longer than other times or longer than I’d hope. But they pass.

Hang in there if that happens to be you.

And if you ever want to join me to do some weeding you’d be more than welcome. As long as you’re happy to sit on my Williams seats and bitch about the Lansdowns

Good luck with your struggles, but it sounds like you have at least recognised and acknowledged your mind and are at the stage sadly many do not reach.

I’m happy to be on ‘dangerous ground’ thank you and will talk about what I wish,  because that’s just it. People are talking. I don’t wIsh to be silenced just because it’s a difficult subject, that’s the whole point. As I say yet again, I have quote experiences from my own working life. I don’t work with footballers, no doubt triggers would be different but with the same results.

Good luck with your allotment, sounds like you have found what works for you. I got enough justvwith my garden, couldnt take an allotment on!

[Antman]

3 hours ago, RedM said:

City have always had a Chaplin, I guess they still do.

he's a bit of a Charlie....

OK, joking aside, the idea of a relying on a Chaplain worries me though as any link to religion or religious belief takes you down, what I think is the wrong road.

Mental health is finally being taken seriously and all clubs should definitely be held to account unless they offer adequate  and appropriately trained & qualified support services. They cannot argue its down to cost.

If your 'assets'  costing millions of £ are trained and honed to physical perfection, but left high and dry mentally, that's short sighted and dangerous.

DC isn't the first, and he won't be the last -

[Antman]

45 minutes ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

Dangerous ground talking about what might trigger mental illness as I think you’ve now found out.

Probably best not to say anything other than it can affect each and everyone of us at any and sometimes many times.

I live with mine every day of the week. I had weekly sessions with a counsellor for 6 months. In the end sunshine and the allotment helped as much as anything else.

Many of us have demons or difficulties. Thankfully mine pass and I know that they will. Sometimes it takes longer than other times or longer than I’d hope. But they pass.

Hang in there if that happens to be you.

And if you ever want to join me to do some weeding you’d be more than welcome. As long as you’re happy to sit on my Williams seats and bitch about the Lansdowns

good luck to you - sounds like you're getting a handle on it.

hanging in there is sometimes the only way through, and the toughest route to take. finding friends, proper friends who can support you is really important.

There is no clear definition when it comes to mental illness / depression or what ever demons or difficulties come upon you.

Sunshine and weeding - love it.

[BigAl&Toby]

30 minutes ago, RedM said:

Good luck with your struggles, but it sounds like you have at least recognised and acknowledged your mind and are at the stage sadly many do not reach.

I’m happy to be on ‘dangerous ground’ thank you and will talk about what I wish,  because that’s just it. People are talking. I don’t wIsh to be silenced just because it’s a difficult subject, that’s the whole point. As I say yet again, I have quote experiences from my own working life. I don’t work with footballers, no doubt triggers would be different but with the same results.

Good luck with your allotment, sounds like you have found what works for you. I got enough justvwith my garden, couldnt take an allotment on!

You keep digging Sister. The more I read of your experiences the more I think you are talking nonsense - or at least in a way that’s really helping no-one. 

Sorry if that grates but read #4.

”You are seen as a failure” - **** me if that’s the case then is it really little wonder men and women want to hide. 

It’s not about being silenced. For me it’s aboy thinking about what you say and how you say it.

Did I see myself as a failure as a father, husband, son..... Nope. But you’ve given me something else to think about now....

[BigAl&Toby]

2 minutes ago, Antman said:

good luck to you - sounds like you're getting a handle on it.

hanging in there is sometimes the only way through, and the toughest route to take. finding friends, proper friends who can support you is really important.

There is no clear definition when it comes to mental illness / depression or what ever demons or difficulties come upon you.

Sunshine and weeding - love it.

And Thatchers Haze. And bitching. Don’t bother coming along unless you’re prepared to bitch about Lansdown. And all his money

I read that other thread with the Guardian article and the poem at the end. Brought a tear to me eye....

[cidered abroad]

1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

I wondered how many posts we'd have until someone made a comment about money etc. No one chooses to become depressed no more than they choose to have cancer or any other serious illness. The car you drive or the money you have doesn't stop you from becoming depressed.

Also as it says in the article it stems from his childhood and before he became a footballer.

Thanks for putting the last paragraph in. Clinical depression resulting from events during childhood are extremely difficult to recover from because a child is not too well equipped to react to it in the same way that a mature adult may be able to.

So the abused one becomes very inward in outlook, feeling unable to trust almost anyone. It's a lifetime sentence for them and also for their nearest and dearest. 

So best wishes to David Cotterill in his battle to regain control of his life.

[RedM]

31 minutes ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

You keep digging Sister. The more I read of your experiences the more I think you are talking nonsense - or at least in a way that’s really helping no-one. 

Sorry if that grates but read #4.

”You are seen as a failure” - **** me if that’s the case then is it really little wonder men and women want to hide. 

It’s not about being silenced. For me it’s aboy thinking about what you say and how you say it.

Did I see myself as a failure as a father, husband, son..... Nope. But you’ve given me something else to think about now....

It’s you that’s taking this personally, one depression doesn’t fit all as everyone knows. So my experiences doesn’t fit yours, or helping you. Can’t do much about that I’m afraid, it is what it is. 

 You seem to think this is aimed at you, it isn’t. You obviously have issues you still need to deal with, I’m bowing out of this now as I’m not responsible for you. I am sorry if I have upset you or touched a nerve. Let’s  be clear, I’m distancing myself from this for your sake, not because you have silenced me or that I don’t believe what I’m saying is right. You are having difficulties discussing this more than me so I think we should leave it at that. If you don’t like my posts please but me on ignore. 

Best wishes to you in the future.

[SecretSam]

4 hours ago, RedM said:

Ok most people don’t have thousands of eyes on you when you work, but from my experience of working with people in Social Services a lot of stress is stemmed from a lack of money, poor housing and being a lone parent. I don’t think the majority of footballers experience two of those reasons, or probably not all three. Cotterill says it’s deeper than money, and yes obviously it is but that’s also easy to say if you are driving round a Bentley etc. Hardly any of the people I worked with had their own transport, buses and buggies at best. 

That's pretty harsh.  Depression is a clinical condition, wealth doesn't come into it - rich people still get colds, so rich people can still get depressed.  Social factors are important in many cases, but there's often other causes.

Source: I suffer from depression.

[SecretSam]

2 hours ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

I live with mine every day of the week. I had weekly sessions with a counsellor for 6 months. In the end sunshine and the allotment helped as much as anything else.

Cycling for me.  Plus food (hence the cycling).  I hate gardening, so you're on your own with that!

Being a Bristol City fan hardly helps your mental state, mind.  Still, could be worse: could be a Saghead, which is a special form of mental trauma in itself.

[RedM]

2 hours ago, Antman said:

he's a bit of a Charlie....

OK, joking aside, the idea of a relying on a Chaplain worries me though as any link to religion or religious belief takes you down, what I think is the wrong road.

Mental health is finally being taken seriously and all clubs should definitely be held to account unless they offer adequate  and appropriately trained & qualified support services. They cannot argue its down to cost.

If your 'assets'  costing millions of £ are trained and honed to physical perfection, but left high and dry mentally, that's short sighted and dangerous.

DC isn't the first, and he won't be the last -

I don’t think they rely on a Chaplin as such, but in places like hospitals etc they are often a friendly face in times of awfulness. They can sit and chat, have the time and the patience many other staff don’t. Many people wouldn’t know they are religious, they might introduce themselves as working in the caring team or something. They could be the first step to linking people to professional counselling, just as charities like the Samaritans etc would be. Years ago people talked to their village priest/vicar like they would their doctor as they knew things would be kept confidential, the Chaplins role within the football club must be the same. What else is he or she there for if not the well-being of the players and staff, to pray for results? I’m sure our club would do everything it could for our players and staff mentally as well as physically, but they have to know about it or be able to recognise the signs, ( signs that many hide very well) first.

[Will Rollason]

1 hour ago, RedM said:

I don’t think they rely on a Chaplin as such, but in places like hospitals etc they are often a friendly face in times of awfulness. They can sit and chat, have the time and the patience many other staff don’t. Many people wouldn’t know they are religious, 

maybe so.... maybe... but the Atheist cynic in me also thinks that religious people ,including Chaplins, see this as a perfect time to try and convert someone. vulnerable people are susceptible... i dont like them lurking around  hospitals...i would rather speak to a janitor or the bloke painting the walls... he/she probably has way more insight!!

First time  I went through clinical depression i had experience of this at work with a deeply religious person... most unimpressed...and when my first son was born very premature and we were in the scbu unit for 3 months the Chaplin got told to take his platitudes elsewhere.....grrrrrrr....grrrrrr....

As to the story above.... its still perplexing to some people that wealthy/famous people can suffer from depression at all.... but it really can hit anyone.. there are usually underlying factors or a life event but not always..best of luck to him.

[forbespm]

1 hour ago, SecretSam said:

Cycling for me.  Plus food (hence the cycling).  I hate gardening, so you're on your own with that!

Being a Bristol City fan hardly helps your mental state, mind.  Still, could be worse: could be a Saghead, which is a special form of mental trauma in itself.

Exercise for me too,running,cycling and swimming.quitting alcohol helped as that is a depressant,best thing I ever did although being alcohol free is considered very odd in this alcocentric country

[cidered abroad]

My first wife, who died twenty years ago, suffered clinical depression from early childhood. It will sound crazy to many on here but she started coming to City games after a visit to see an end of season testimonial match. She found that that noise of the crowd linked with action on the pitch, allowed her to forget her demons for a couple of hours.

The only person I have ever known who was happy at a City match. Most of us get depressed watching them!

[CyderInACan]

35 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

My first wife, who died twenty years ago, suffered clinical depression from early childhood. It will sound crazy to many on here but she started coming to City games after a visit to see an end of season testimonial match. She found that that noise of the crowd linked with action on the pitch, allowed her to forget her demons for a couple of hours.

The only person I have ever known who was happy at a City match. Most of us get depressed watching them!

So sorry to hear that. I’ve heard someone else on here who’s suffered also saying that “losing yourself” in the moment when we score is a great escape. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

22 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

So sorry to hear that. I’ve heard someone else on here who’s suffered also saying that “losing yourself” in the moment when we score is a great escape. 

I`ve also heard it said that the feeling of belonging to something far larger than the individual and being part of a crowd of thousands all pulling in the same direction and yearning for the same thing is great therapy too - I know it`s helped me cope in the dark times I`ve had in my life and City have often been the only fixed point when everything else around you seems to be falling apart. To be in a situation where a complete stranger hugs or high fives you because you are sharing in a moment of ecstasy doesn`t happen in any other walk of life - that person doesn`t know you or what`s going on in your life, they just want to share their joy with you and that is a powerful thing.

It is so much more than a game isn`t it?

[KevP]

6 hours ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

Dangerous ground talking about what might trigger mental illness as I think you’ve now found out.

Probably best not to say anything other than it can affect each and everyone of us at any and sometimes many times.

I live with mine every day of the week. I had weekly sessions with a counsellor for 6 months. In the end sunshine and the allotment helped as much as anything else.

Many of us have demons or difficulties. Thankfully mine pass and I know that they will. Sometimes it takes longer than other times or longer than I’d hope. But they pass.

Hang in there if that happens to be you.

And if you ever want to join me to do some weeding you’d be more than welcome. As long as you’re happy to sit on my Williams seats and bitch about the Lansdowns

Spot on, quality post mate 

[KevP]

Don't be embarrassed to admit you have issues. Gone are the days of "oh get a grip"....It's being recognised as a serious issue along with the physical ones. And help is out there and becoming more readily available. Not perfect yet but much better than a few years back. The NHS "Lets Talk" type set ups are brilliant, so get a GP referall if you feel bad. I can talk from experience, and as mentioned above, admitting it to yourself, not feeling embarrassed, and talking about it are all crucial factors. I was actually surprised how people responded when I spoke of my worries a few years ago, all were understanding and positive. I've sorted my demons and learnt a lot so much so that I share advice and help with lots of people who tell me of their problems and concerns. There, I've said it now !! 

[reddoh]

7 hours ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

Dangerous ground talking about what might trigger mental illness as I think you’ve now found out.

Probably best not to say anything other than it can affect each and everyone of us at any and sometimes many times.

I lil ve with mine every day of the week. I had weekly sessions with a counsellor for 6 months. In the end sunshine and the allotment helped as much as anything else.

Many of us have demons or difficulties. Thankfully mine pass and I know that they will. Sometimes it takes longer than other times or longer than I’d hope. But they pass.

Hang in there if that happens to be you.

And if you ever want to join me to do some weeding you’d be more than welcome. As long as you’re happy to sit on my Williams seats and bitch about the Lansdowns

BAT&L thanks for the offer I may take that up but I extend to you the chance to teach me how to weed in my garden.

[RUSSEL85]

Unfortunately my brother in law took his own life 8 weeks ago, no sign of depression or any issues but it's what's going on inside that matters, it has broken us as a family that we couldn't help in anyway as we simply didn't know. The more coverage mental health awareness gets the better and I hope anyone who is suffering isn't scared to speak out, there is so much more help out there these days. 

[cidered abroad]

56 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

I`ve also heard it said that the feeling of belonging to something far larger than the individual and being part of a crowd of thousands all pulling in the same direction and yearning for the same thing is great therapy too - I know it`s helped me cope in the dark times I`ve had in my life and City have often been the only fixed point when everything else around you seems to be falling apart. To be in a situation where a complete stranger hugs or high fives you because you are sharing in a moment of ecstasy doesn`t happen in any other walk of life - that person doesn`t know you or what`s going on in your life, they just want to share their joy with you and that is a powerful thing.

It is so much more than a game isn`t it?

Yes it is and one of the few places where one is never turned away, unless it's a sell out.

Also a great place to make friendships where the other person doesn't want to know every detail about your personal life. In many cases not even exchanging names. A mate for twenty or so days a year. With no pressure to be what you are not.