Why all the Nathan Baker negativity?

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

No, it wasn't the best but Wright, Flint, Baker and Bryan/Magnússon were conceding a goal a game (24 in 24 games) up to and including Reading on Boxing Day. Fulham conceded a goal a game (46 in 46) last season (Wolves and Cardiff 39) so, up until January, we were defending at play-off standard/level.

The best central defence so far this season is Middlesbrough's: 3 conceded in 9 games! That's a lot of clean sheets. Flint has played every game; every minute of every game. 

I'd imagine Pulis organises his team so that his centre backs are not exposed in the way Flint and his fellow cbs were here by the awol tendencies of, and limitations of, and/or the general piss-poorness of the likes of Luke Ayling, Mark Little, Adam Matthews, Korey Smith etc.

I agree with lots of this....especially the 4x CBs that I thought made us attritional, grinding out results, hard to beat etc....that at the time I Couldn’t see us not making the play-offs.  Remember tweeting Twentyman and saying "this team isn’t falling away”.  Got that wrong didn’t I.

Boro often have 4x CBs named in their back 5, if you think Shotton can play CB.  Friend the exception, although I'm sure hevcould play LCB in a 3 If need be.

Back to Baker - I really liked him on loan as we moved from Cotts’s back 3 into a 4, predominantly under LJ.  Flint needed his experience (despite being younger) to play the ‘flat back 4’.  When he returned last season, his early performances were excellent, Bryan also playing well at LB, meaning NB not getting exposed down the channel.  Same when Hörður came in at LB too.

I don’t know what happened following the red card at QPR, but he never attained those levels again.  He definitely has quality about him.  From the outside looking in, it appears to be mental with him....but that could just be misguided from his demeanour.

Like Paterson on Friday, he’s got a big chance this Friday.  I hope he takes it.  A Baker on form is a very good CB at this level.  A lot was made of him lumping it on Friday.  He did, though partly from lack of players coming short.  That is one thing our midfield, widemen and LB are gonna need to do, is give a short pass option.  No hiding.

I do disagree re Ayling....I can understand your thoughts on the others.  I spent 14/15 and 15/16 seasons sitting in the right back part of the stand (if you get my drift), and his positioning to cover Flint was impressive but also unnoticed.  Great defending headers at the back post too.  He was asked to play expansively with the ball, and the risk was being caught out of position.  Hasn’t done badly at Leeds has he?  We should never have sold him imho.

[Super Scotty Murray]

19 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Are we happy with “best centre back pairing in the Championship until January”?

Pretty big claim that. I’ll need convincing. Especially given there were both regulars all season in a team that eventually finished 11th.

We were 2nd in the league going into January and had just knocked Man Utd out of the cup and gone toe to toe with Man City. I don't think it is an unreasonable statement. I did also say 'pretty much the best' i.e. I would be happy to be given some alternatives as previous posters have done.

[JamesBCFC]

17 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

I get the impression that Baker is still in shock having left such a big club as Villa to suddenly find himself a long way off the Prem at lil ol' Bristol City .

We need to see more of the monster that ran half the length of the pitch to get in a good tackle only to be sent off unjustly.

Come on Bakes we know you can do it .

I hope we dont need to see him running the width of the pitch to make a tackle.

That red card was from Baker trying to fix a needlessly sloppy pass by Flint.

[Bristol Oil Services]

14 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Fair play I said I’d need convincing and you’ve put together a good case. Undeniable that the stats were good until January. But to be considered anywhere near the best, I think you’ve got to do it over a whole season.

Only thing I’m not happy with is the phrase “piss poor ness” being used anywhere near Korey Smith. Though I appreciate you’re referring to him as a full back, which is not what he’s about.

Agree about Korey, I was simply, and a little clumsily, referring to our problem at right fullback, and Korey was a bit of a square peg there (or perhaps, tbf, an oval shaped peg in a round hole). We even had the lad that came from Spurs and disappeared off sharp to Fulham, all in a few weeks (now at West Ham, Fredericks was it? Not a bad spot by SC, shame). A lot of "churn" at right back.

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 

I do disagree re Ayling....I can understand your thoughts on the others.  I spent 14/15 and 15/16 seasons sitting in the right back part of the stand (if you get my drift), and his positioning to cover Flint was impressive but also unnoticed.  Great defending headers at the back post too.  He was asked to play expansively with the ball, and the risk was being caught out of position.  Hasn’t done badly at Leeds has he?  We should never have sold him imho.

LA's done well at Leeds, yes. I think my view has been skewed somewhat by those first few weeks in the Championship under SC when we leaked goals every week, and were generally pretty embarrassing. 

 

I find the defensive stats for Aug to Jan last season strongly compelling, it was the best half season defensively in this Championship spell (three seasons). Can it be a coincidence that we had three, sometimes four, defenders playing in defence, rather than attacking fullbacks such as Ayling, Bryan, Matthews etc? And the other thing about last autumn: we still scored plenty of goals.

I think the back line of Wright/Flint/Baker/Bryan or Magnússon lost only one game up until Wolves at Christmas (Flint didn't play at Brum, Baker missed Leeds at home); Hegeler played at the back when we lost at Brum,  and home to Leeds, in that mellow, fruitful autumn of 2017.

 

Can it be that simple? Play Wright/Webster/Baker/Kelly, or Kallas, when fit? And buy a defensive right-footer to play right back? 

[redsquirrel]

On ‎24‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 13:02, Offside said:

I think Baker is a good player. My only concern is that sometimes he does not seem to be in the right place mentally.

when goes mental,i think its because he wants some time off and a red ensures that.usually a good player but does have his moments

[BobBobSuperBob]

20 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

I get the impression that Baker is still in shock having left such a big club as Villa to suddenly find himself a long way off the Prem at lil ol' Bristol City .

We need to see more of the monster that ran half the length of the pitch to get in a good tackle only to be sent off unjustly.

Come on Bakes we know you can do it .

Red All day long

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Agree about Korey, I was simply, and a little clumsily, referring to our problem at right fullback, and Korey was a bit of a square peg there (or perhaps, tbf, an oval shaped peg in a round hole). We even had the lad that came from Spurs and disappeared off sharp to Fulham, all in a few weeks (now at West Ham, Fredericks was it? Not a bad spot by SC, shame). A lot of "churn" at right back.

LA's done well at Leeds, yes. I think my view has been skewed somewhat by those first few weeks in the Championship under SC when we leaked goals every week, and were generally pretty embarrassing. 

 

I find the defensive stats for Aug to Jan last season strongly compelling, it was the best half season defensively in this Championship spell (three seasons). Can it be a coincidence that we had three, sometimes four, defenders playing in defence, rather than attacking fullbacks such as Ayling, Bryan, Matthews etc? And the other thing about last autumn: we still scored plenty of goals.

I think the back line of Wright/Flint/Baker/Bryan or Magnússon lost only one game up until Wolves at Christmas (Flint didn't play at Brum, Baker missed Leeds at home); Hegeler played at the back when we lost at Brum,  and home to Leeds, in that mellow, fruitful autumn of 2017.

 

Can it be that simple? Play Wright/Webster/Baker/Kelly, or Kallas, when fit? And buy a defensive right-footer to play right back? 

Preaching to the converted brother!!

My simplistic thoughts re 442 are you either attack:

- 2 fullbacks, 2 widemen and 2 strikers (2 DMs stay ‘home’ with the 2 CBs)

- 4 midfielders and 2 strikers (all 4 defenders stay home)

it is massively simplistic but hope you get what I’m trying to say. 

It appears that the stats back up that the second option is better defensively for us.

I've referred in the past to Liverpool under Houllier. Very attack minded but only the front 6. Henchoz, Hyypia and Carragher were out and out defenders. The RB Markus Babbel was the only one who ever went past the halfway line! 

The advantage of this type is that your CMs have a bit more licence to play higher up the pitch and can help press with the widemen and strikers. 

Sure some others on here will have a more practical / fact based view on my simplistic tactic! 

17 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Red All day long

Yep

[BobBobSuperBob]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Preaching to the converted brother!!

My simplistic thoughts re 442 are you either attack:

- 2 fullbacks, 2 widemen and 2 strikers (2 DMs stay ‘home’ with the 2 CBs)

- 4 midfielders and 2 strikers (all 4 defenders stay home)

it is massively simplistic but hope you get what I’m trying to say. 

It appears that the stats back up that the second option is better defensively for us.

I've referred in the past to Liverpool under Houllier. Very attack minded but only the front 6. Henchoz, Hyypia and Carragher were out and out defenders. The RB Markus Babbel was the only one who ever went past the halfway line! 

The advantage of this type is that your CMs have a bit more licence to play higher up the pitch and can help press with the widemen and strikers. 

Sure some others on here will have a more practical / fact based view on my simplistic tactic! 

 

  

totally totally totally agree - should be the base framework

 

or allow one full back to go ,(when in decent  possession)either overlapping or pushing the widemen in front of him forward to create / convert to a 3-4-3 

[Red-Robbo]

We have to see what sort of Nathan Baker emerges from the tunnel.

The assured player we know he can be, or the worried, error-prone, red-card-in-waiting he was for much of the second half of last season (when not injured).

Against his old club, well, it's a lottery....

[swanker]

On 24/09/2018 at 12:48, Super said:

He is a good player but makes some poor decisions (QPR home last season)

Did you see the pass from flint that led up to that poor decision?

[Super]

19 minutes ago, swanker said:

Did you see the pass from flint that led up to that poor decision?

Still not a reason for him to lunge in like that.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Super said:

Still not a reason for him to lunge in like that.

Scowen was away had he not caught him.  Was a mishit pass from Flint.

[Judda]

My daughter showed me a Pack interview where he said he was the player they were scared of in tackles... Good to have a player like that in the team...

[swanker]

13 hours ago, Super said:

Still not a reason for him to lunge in like that.

Maybe not but the pass from Flint was terrible and put Baker and City in trouble. Baker is a good defender and I’m looking forward to seeing him play on Friday. 

[Hampshire reds]

I am sure most people were well pleased when we signed him. I for one was. Nathan is a good defender hopefully on Fri he will show us all what a quality player he is.

[ProfitInMyPocket]

Good defender, just never know if hes gunna last the whole 90 with the injuries and constant fouling.

[Johnr1986]

 Baker still best CB club own, his one downfall is that he is very injury prone! 

[cidered abroad]

On 25/09/2018 at 18:48, Davefevs said:

Scowen was away had he not caught him.  Was a mishit pass from Flint.

Flint never mishit a pass or misdirected a header during his time at City?

[Lordofthebling]

Dunno why I'm meh about Baker.  The kid obviously has talent, but maybe his attitude when he was on loan got on my goat.

He seemed so lackadaisical, often not reading the game only to be forced into diving in to a challenge.  Great player on his day though, was hoping he'd step up to the plate since Flint's departure, what with his premier league experience and age.