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What happened to alternate home and away matches ?


Major Isewater

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As per the title didn't clubs always used to be home then away ? 

It would seem to pénalise clubs who have to travel the furthest , in particular those in the lower leagues who don't have the luxury of overnight stays in top hotels or  can rent training facilities.

It's expensive and difficult for away supporters as well .

Why did it change ? 

 

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27 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

As per the title didn't clubs always used to be home then away ? 

It would seem to pénalise clubs who have to travel the furthest , in particular those in the lower leagues who don't have the luxury of overnight stays in top hotels or  can rent training facilities.

It's expensive and difficult for away supporters as well .

Why did it change ? 

 

I think it's very easy to criticise scheduling from narrow perspective of one set of fans, but as the above article lays out pretty well, it's an enormously complex task with countless variables.  There will always be some winners and losers.

Just considering City in isolation, we have constraints related to when the rugby team play, when Rovers play, and annual events like the Balloon Fiesta.  On occasion the women have played at Ashton Gate too.  Multiply that by the 92 league clubs, each with their own constraints, and it's not hard to understand why the schedule doesn't always work out exactly as we'd like.

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55 minutes ago, phantom said:

Did it ever actually happen that way though?

I noticed it changed when we were promoted out of League One both times, before that it was on the whole home one week and away the next but if you were home Sat and away Tues you would be home again the next Saturday. I thought the change happened in the Championship to fit in additional week night games due to International breaks ( which seem to get more and more each season) Not sure why the home away alternates don’t work though, guess it’s like already mentioned as clubs have to consider other factors, eg we share Police snd Stewards etc with a team which usually doesn’t have International Breaks.

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2 hours ago, Coxy27 said:

This is an old article, and a lot of it is fairly obvious, but it pretty much answers your question:

http://theconversation.com/explainer-how-are-football-fixtures-set-27472

This is a good article, but I’m not convinced by the “Taking the fans into account” part.  Tuesday night away to Rotherham is hardly convenient for travelling City fans. Neither was away to Norwich mid week in a previous season. 

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17 minutes ago, phantom said:

Errrm

@The turtle's point makes sense, he just hasn't explained it very well (typical Dave ?).

Let's say City start with a home game, then 11 other teams also start with a home fixture (i.e. in a 24 team league, half the teams are at home at any one time). Therefore, if it was strictly home then away on alternative matchdays, then we'd never be able to play any of those other 11 teams as they'd always be home when we're home and away when we're away.

Clear as mud ? 

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We have 12 pairs of double fixtures. So 24 of our games are either back to back home or back to back away. 

There is a period of 10 games from Feb 13th where we go: HHAAHHAAHH - no joke ?

There must be some pairs of double home or away but it does seem excessive. 

As we go thru the season, 3 of the 4 remaining pairs of away games are weekend to weekend, no midweek game. However our remaining 5 home pairs are all midweek / weekend or weekend / midweek. 

My gut feel is that the away pairs will be easier for the rest of the season because they aren’t including a midweek. Tougher away but 7 days between. 

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47 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

This is a good article, but I’m not convinced by the “Taking the fans into account” part.  Tuesday night away to Rotherham is hardly convenient for travelling City fans. Neither was away to Norwich mid week in a previous season. 

Definitely fake news :yes:

 

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5 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I think it's very easy to criticise scheduling from narrow perspective of one set of fans, but as the above article lays out pretty well, it's an enormously complex task with countless variables.  There will always be some winners and losers.

Just considering City in isolation, we have constraints related to when the rugby team play, when Rovers play, and annual events like the Balloon Fiesta.  On occasion the women have played at Ashton Gate too.  Multiply that by the 92 league clubs, each with their own constraints, and it's not hard to understand why the schedule doesn't always work out exactly as we'd like.

But years ago, pre computers, one man with a pencil and paper used to do it to most clubs and fans satisfaction.

City and Rovers have never ever been allocated home games on the same day until the last two or three years.

And while it is impossible for a club never to have consecutive home or away games, the big increase in these has only occurred in recent years.

And finally, long distance away matches were not allocated midweek dates. It was done that way, as I understood, because as most clubs travelled by train, almost impossible to travel back home after the match.

Personally, I think that whoever compiles the fixtures now, is not doing a good job. The computer is only as good as the data programming.

As another moan, I'm sick and fed up that we always get a first game of the season at home because of that bloody Balloon Fiesta. That usually means that most of our midweek games before Christmas, are away.

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21 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

But years ago, pre computers, one man with a pencil and paper used to do it to most clubs and fans satisfaction.

City and Rovers have never ever been allocated home games on the same day until the last two or three years.

And finally, long distance away matches were not allocated midweek dates. It was done that way, as I understood, because as most clubs travelled by train, almost impossible to travel back home after the match.

Personally, I think that whoever compiles the fixtures now, is not doing a good job. The computer is only as good as the data programming.

A lovely, romantic and idyllic scenario, but I doubt seriously this was ever the case - just imagine it (and please don't come up with some evidence to prove me wrong ?).

I seem to recall reading quite recently that the EFL consciously and intentionally allocate, e.g. Carlisle vs Plymouth, for midweek as, even with a 3 o'clock Saturday kick off, there would only ever be a minimal away crowd, so a midweek fixture would mean inconveniencing less people and leave Saturday afternoons free for larger crowds.

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I remember reading about the scheduling for the Premier League and Football League matches, and how unbelievably complicated it is.

It goes through several layers, namely the police, any major events happening that year in cities around the UK, the calendar for other sports, potential traffic hotspots, and ultimately the TV schedule for when the best times are for key matches. All of these are given weights to indicate importance, and if certain layers are minimal, other layers will become heavier/lighter.

IIRC, a bunch of statisticians/data analysts create a set of possible schedules with weighted risks, and they go through a vetting process with all parties involved.

Years ago, much of it was done by hand and only loosely on computers, so while it was still the product of a handful of mathematicians, city planning, clubs, and the police, it didn't have the heavy TV influence, and seemed much fairer. I assume this is why any biases are easy to spot nowadays when compared to the past.

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5 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

On a similar topic, why have we moved the Owls game to Sunday 07/10? The Bears are away the same day so it can't be that. Is it because the tent dwellers are at home?

It’s purely to have silly puns about Wednesday on a Sunday ?

 

(I may have made that up)

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On 25/09/2018 at 14:23, pongo88 said:

This is a good article, but I’m not convinced by the “Taking the fans into account” part.  Tuesday night away to Rotherham is hardly convenient for travelling City fans. Neither was away to Norwich mid week in a previous season. 

Rotherham is Wednesday isn’t it, it is isn’t it??? :blink: So confused with this moving football around and rugby on a Saturday too. 

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When I started watching, fifty years ago, it was usual to play H one Saturday and A the following. A midweek game was sometimes H, sometimes A.

Just for the sake of it, I've looked at the 1946-47 season and was amazed by City's fixtures then.

A - H - H - then three away games followed by alternate H & A fixtures until November when City then had four consecutive away games broken only by the FA Cup 1st round. That was home, but could have been away as well. In January 1947 City had four consecutive home games and in April three more.

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