Bristol Rob Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 37 minutes ago, Neo said: Our lesser seen FLO will be all over this My guess... the answer will be.... 'I have raised this with our overly aggressive stewarding team and once I hear back from them I'll update'.... And never to be heard from again, as has happened with every other query that he has taken away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLionLad Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Bristol Rob said: My guess... the answer will be.... 'I have raised this with our overly aggressive stewarding team and once I hear back from them I'll update'.... And never to be heard from again, as has happened with every other query that he has taken away. Five or six people complaining on OTIB isn't going to change anything, and we all know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UREDS_91 Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 On 29/09/2018 at 14:35, JulieH said: I will feed the issues with regards to stewarding back to the safety officer with regards to the police position on the stairs I was not at the stadium last night but at hq doing another role. The officers were briefed to remain in concourse area and be available if requested. i have looked at the photo and will feed back and find out why they were there, however there were no reported incidents of any issues in any of the stands last night to police. It may be they were responding to something they saw . At this stage I can’t answer but will do my best to find out . Or, just maybe, they wanted to watch the match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cider-Head23 Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 Needs a haircut and a good wash by the looks of that steward in the pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 19 hours ago, Coombsy said: I think you will find they are not allowed to grab people like the steward showed did they are there for guidance and help to remove some one they need to have an sia badge Can I ask where you get this info from? Particularly the last bit. Grab in those circs, absolutely not. Guidance and help? Yes...but not entirely. Is patting down fans on entry 'guidance and help?' Or at least in home areas, more likely searching bags or open coat policy (for male adults only in the case of the latter i.e. the open coat rule). Is sending people back to the concourse who have alcohol 'guidance and help'? Arguably in one sense as in it tells people it is not allowed and the help comes from firstly telling them and secondly meaning they avoid the risk of ejection/arrest, but broadly perhaps not. Attempting to make people who choose to stand at the top row of a stand sit down- 'Guidance and help?' Again, debatable. They have the power to eject fans if necessary. I suggest you do a bit of reading of FSF Faircop or Football_Legal- stewards clearly have more power than you make out. Or this site may help a bit (admittedly the discussion from a decade ago, and things may have moved on). https://www.ukpoliceonline.co.uk/index.php?/topic/29428-safety-stewards/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombsy Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Can I ask where you get this info from? Particularly the last bit. Grab in those circs, absolutely not. Guidance and help? Yes...but not entirely. Is patting down fans on entry 'guidance and help?' Or at least in home areas, more likely searching bags or open coat policy (for male adults only in the case of the latter i.e. the open coat rule). Is sending people back to the concourse who have alcohol 'guidance and help'? Arguably in one sense as in it tells people it is not allowed and the help comes from firstly telling them and secondly meaning they avoid the risk of ejection/arrest, but broadly perhaps not. Attempting to make people who choose to stand at the top row of a stand sit down- 'Guidance and help?' Again, debatable. They have the power to eject fans if necessary. I suggest you do a bit of reading of FSF Faircop or Football_Legal- stewards clearly have more power than you make out. Or this site may help a bit (admittedly the discussion from a decade ago, and things may have moved on). https://www.ukpoliceonline.co.uk/index.php?/topic/29428-safety-stewards/ I use to be part of the rapid responses team a few years ago at the gate we was placed in the old east end had to have a sia badge that’s how I know unless they have changed the rule now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, Coombsy said: I use to be part of the rapid responses team a few years ago at the gate we was placed in the old east end had to have a sia badge that’s how I know unless they have changed the rule now Fair enough then- you know your stuff! Maybe there is a bit of an exemption now, it's hard to say really- fairly sure I've seen regular stewards ejecting fans though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombsy Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Fair enough then- you know your stuff! Maybe there is a bit of an exemption now, it's hard to say really- fairly sure I've seen regular stewards ejecting fans though. They also need a level 2 nvq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Coombsy said: They also need a level 2 nvq Level 2 NVQ to eject or simply to steward at grounds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombsy Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Level 2 NVQ to eject or simply to steward at grounds? Just to steward at grounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 37 minutes ago, Coombsy said: Just to steward at grounds Did a Google search and it said that or working towards it. I think a big part of the problem here, only based on stuff I've read at other clubs mind you, is use of Security firm like KB in stands with regular stewards- Birmingham seem to have similar issues with a security company named K2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1bristolcity Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 On 30/09/2018 at 18:58, Mr Popodopolous said: The problem with your view is that firstly poor stewarding or policing shouldn't be left unchecked because it's not good- it's wrong. However, from a more pragmatic standpoint- heavy handed or belligerent stewarding (seems to be a recurring theme in the Singing Section) risks eventually inciting the crowd if there is a spark one day. People won't put up with it forever in my view- you surely know that too. Remember a year ago roughly v Stoke in the Cup? Didn't a kid get pushed off a seat or something by a bouncer type steward and the crowd turned in a flash- their reaction fully understandable I might add. Of course any 'bad policing or stewarding, is wrong, but on here pictures are being put up of a stewards who have been already tried on here and found guilty. It does seem there is an ever growing anti police and steward initiative , remember stewards and police are there to ensure OUR safety and keep the peace. Can you imagine the carnage if there was no security at football grounds, of course not everyone tasked with security are always without fault, but by and large it works well. After all football violence is the reason such security is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 22 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said: Of course any 'bad policing or stewarding, is wrong, but on here pictures are being put up of a stewards who have been already tried on here and found guilty. It does seem there is an ever growing anti police and steward initiative , remember stewards and police are there to ensure OUR safety and keep the peace. Can you imagine the carnage if there was no security at football grounds, of course not everyone tasked with security are always without fault, but by and large it works well. After all football violence is the reason such security is needed. It seems to me, that there's a specific problem in this section. My opinion is that ordinary stewards and security type staff- one is more suitable for football than the other. I would concur though, that a lot of police and stewards do a sound job- if perhaps overzealous at times, and it's pretty unfair for for a reasonable majority to be tarnished by a minority who are not acting appropriately. I've no idea if this case happened because I'm not in the singing section, but you are right- there does at least online seem to be a growing kickback against stewarding and policing- however though it's not necessarily right, it is as I touched upon the issues with a minority tarring a majority with a bad brush - all IMO of course. Trial by social media? Never sits well with me, that said there wouldn't have been a post on here if there wasn't something that had happened I think. I'll tell you an organisation who are quite hot on this- excesses of policing and stewarding at football- FSF Faircop. I think they are a force for good overall personally (FSF Faircop)- you might have a different opinion however, have a look if you don't know already and perhaps put what you think. I think the violence risk is significantly overstated now most of the time- but of course you need stewards and police. Segregation for a start into away fans into an end, which actually adds to atmosphere. Even other sports have stewards (though not necessarily police)- cricket has stewards, rugby has stewards- concerts, festivals etc etc- though I accept that the types of steward differ at these from football.Enforcing the (ludicrous) laws on alcohol in view of the pitch, doing searching etc. I will though say this- in my view the club need to get a grip on this situation, through proper dialogue between all parties, maybe re-training- perhaps even insisting on only experienced staff from KB if that's one of the problems- because the cycle of incidents, justified posts on here, club seemingly not paying it much attention, will tarnish all with the brush of the few- and it'll do no party any good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 Incidentally, there is a pretty interesting Spreadsheet/Google Doc (incomplete admittedly) online that I have just seen- and it has a number of Bristol City related variables! About policing football last season- not even looked through it properly myself yet. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZEiEkW6sLxV2C_Gq1gcfDM64at96eBWPntMxoU6Pq9M/edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieH Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Incidentally, there is a pretty interesting Spreadsheet/Google Doc (incomplete admittedly) online that I have just seen- and it has a number of Bristol City related variables! About policing football last season- not even looked through it properly myself yet. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZEiEkW6sLxV2C_Gq1gcfDM64at96eBWPntMxoU6Pq9M/edit I have looked at this. i personally need clarification on the charge to public purse column. The games where no club charge always have football spotters on duty which is our normal duty for that day both for rovers and city Not sure how they come up with the figures for the public purse column , as this fixture is our duty for that day with no extra overtime or expense being incurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meh Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 13 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Did a Google search and it said that or working towards it. I think a big part of the problem here, only based on stuff I've read at other clubs mind you, is use of Security firm like KB in stands with regular stewards- Birmingham seem to have similar issues with a security company named K2. K2 - hard outfit to join - gotta climb a mountain to get a job there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted October 2, 2018 Admin Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 9 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Incidentally, there is a pretty interesting Spreadsheet/Google Doc (incomplete admittedly) online that I have just seen- and it has a number of Bristol City related variables! About policing football last season- not even looked through it properly myself yet. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZEiEkW6sLxV2C_Gq1gcfDM64at96eBWPntMxoU6Pq9M/edit Also very noticeable SYP have many "Refused" answers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatalist Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 9 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Incidentally, there is a pretty interesting Spreadsheet/Google Doc (incomplete admittedly) online that I have just seen- and it has a number of Bristol City related variables! About policing football last season- not even looked through it properly myself yet. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZEiEkW6sLxV2C_Gq1gcfDM64at96eBWPntMxoU6Pq9M/edit Is this for real? 185 police for game against Barnsley???, compared to 64 for Cardiff and 0 for several games, including Derby and also Forest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRaw Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 23 minutes ago, Fatalist said: Is this for real? 185 police for game against Barnsley???, compared to 64 for Cardiff and 0 for several games, including Derby and also Forest. Yea well those ferrets can be aggressive little buggers..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Fatalist said: Is this for real? 185 police for game against Barnsley???, compared to 64 for Cardiff and 0 for several games, including Derby and also Forest. Unsure how they calculate it, saw it quoted by a journo who had presumably done research/FOI. We paid £131,201.79 to Avon & Somerset last season apparently- up to and including 23rd Jan 2018. Doesn't seem to be much beyond that. @phantom Only really focused on City so far but I'm sure there will be some interesting trends- SYP refusing a lot doesn't surprise- Avon & Somerset seem one of the more transparent IMO but will doubtless find out more when I look at it- here's the source. @JulieH Maybe a question to ask and feedback on here on if possible? My guess, is that matches with only spotters are classed as police free because as you say normal duties etc, therefore there isn't a charge (not looked through the data in full yet so I maybe wrong), and then the costs are gross- net cost or profit to public purse seemingly depending on the club (notably Greater Manchester Police seems to have a profit to public purse for PL games) the cost after the clubs contribution has been deducted. Or maybe cost to public purse is those outside the ground which I believe aren't paid for by clubs, cost of operations in city centres etc- purely guessing though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1bristolcity Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 On 30/09/2018 at 19:03, ZiderEyed said: Literally the worst opinions going on you mind. Literally that does not make any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjak Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 On 30/09/2018 at 18:29, Loosey Boy said: The stewards in the singing section get worse by the game - always seem to be looking for issues that’s don’t exist! Someone at the club should go “undercover” in there for a couple of games and see it for themselves! That is one excellent idea.....rather like a 'secret shopper' operates, to see that a good and appropriate service is being maintained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonPark Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 @JulieH is there any update at all on why he was instructed to take up half the stairwell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLionLad Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 19 minutes ago, AshtonPark said: @JulieH is there any update at all on why he was instructed to take up half the stairwell? "These things take time" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieH Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 1 hour ago, AshtonPark said: @JulieH is there any update at all on why he was instructed to take up half the stairwell? I have shown the photo to the supervisor on the night and I can confirm they were told to remain in the concourse. they were not instructed to stand on the stairwell . i have fed back the comments on this thread . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East End Old Boy Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 1 hour ago, JulieH said: I have shown the photo to the supervisor on the night and I can confirm they were told to remain in the concourse. they were not instructed to stand on the stairwell . i have fed back the comments on this thread . Therefore, pleased to see the office is obviously a fan then and wanted to watch the game, so I think it’s only fair that the club charge him an entrance fee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLionLad Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 3 hours ago, JulieH said: I have shown the photo to the supervisor on the night and I can confirm they were told to remain in the concourse. they were not instructed to stand on the stairwell . i have fed back the comments on this thread . Top marks for being honest and upfront with us fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieH Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 1 minute ago, RedLionLad said: Top marks for being honest and upfront with us fans. Thank you. happy to receive feedback as stated previously, and the feedback I receive both on this forum and the monthly meetings always gets reported into the football policing command teams . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 On the theme of feedback and comms, in a similar vein to @JulieH and the police liaison role, a dedicated Steward Liaision- if anyone wanted to do it of course- posting on this site and feeding back to the club would help a fair bit IMO. It'd need to be primarily via here but something the club should look at I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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