Lrrr Posted October 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 1 minute ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Don’t think that’s quite true...Campbell applied for the Grimsby Town manager’s role earlier this year and he was subsequently interviewed for the job...but he didn’t get it... Meant that he won't consider anything other than a managers job seemingly, he also applied for Oxford I believe. But he seemingly doesn't want to go in as a coach somewhere to get more experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keep the Faith Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 There was a TV program a while ago about Britain getting a black prime minister. From what I remember the main point throughout was that PMs in particular but politicians more generally come from the more elite education establishments. The majority of their intake come from certain schools and the majority of those pupils are children of parents in careers requiring a higher standard of education. It is a cycle that, without making an effort to change, will not improve on its own, certainly not in the near future and therefore something needs to be done either to improve certain schools or ensure adequate representation of ethnic minorities in those more elite establishments. The former would take significant time and a complete revamp of the education system which could be possible and desirable but in the short term the latter is more likely to achieve results. I would have thought that it would be easier for people from ethnic minorities to get a coaching or manger job in football as you take that education bias out of the equation and have a much larger pool of ethnic minorities within the profession who could in theory go on to become coaches and managers. A quick google for some figures seems to indicate however that 8% of MPs are from ethnic minorities and only 4% of UK football managers and coaches. No doubt there are a variety of factors and not just discrimination at play for these low figures. Regardless of this however something positive needs to be done, the situation is unlikely the fix itself and it is certainly not trending that way. I don't know much about Sol Campbell but if he has shown little interest in getting tuck in to learn his trade then perhaps he isn't the best choice for this high profile role but I don't think you can just say the best person will get the job and leave it at that, it just doesn't seem to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 1 minute ago, hodge said: Meant that he won't consider anything other than a managers job seemingly, he also applied for Oxford I believe. But he seemingly doesn't want to go in as a coach somewhere to get more experience. Cheers for clarifying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 12 minutes ago, JonDolman said: If 87% of the British population are white, then aren't white people always likely to be the majority in any profession? Of course. But the question has to be whether the % of people working in a particular profession is similar to the % in senior roles. Without any doubt, there is a higher % of BAME people in football than in many professions. It is quite reasonable to ask why that isn't replicated at managerial or coaching levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 Selecting someone based on the colour of their skin over their ability to do a job. . . . Sounds a bit Apartheidy to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 31 minutes ago, JonDolman said: If 87% of the British population are white, then aren't white people always likely to be the majority in any profession? Which is reflected in football Managerial posts and Coaching posts. However the majorities of white Managers and coaches are far higher in football despite the numbers of non white footballers being higher than your 13%. The numbers of black Managers is around 6%, at times it is far lower. The numbers of black coaches is even lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Turnip Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Red Army 75 said: Of course, and let me start off by saying I'm not saying those in that category are automatically racist - however I see conversations about topics such as this and often it is the 40+ white male crowd that give similar answers No you didn't say that - just some of them eh? But then isn't that the same in society in general? You can't see that you're pre-judging people based on there age and skin colour? It's throw away generalisations like this that are the problem. Why not just challenge individuals or the view itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Army 75 Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 55 minutes ago, Paul Turnip said: No you didn't say that - just some of them eh? But then isn't that the same in society in general? You can't see that you're pre-judging people based on there age and skin colour? It's throw away generalisations like this that are the problem. Why not just challenge individuals or the view itself. You can twist my words whatever way it suits you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsene's Wanger Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 I hope he doesn't get the job. Not because he's black, but because he's a complete cu*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distortia Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 While I don't think such a decision is necessary, the positive side effect it will hopefully harbour is more people from ethnic minority backgrounds getting into football coaching in the first place. Seeing people of 'their race' succeeding in top-level football management should be encouraging to anybody. As a result, there should be a wider talent pool of managerial options available, which is only beneficial in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 Woooooooooohhhhhh Some harsh comments on here Sol Campbell is very much the best / most promising coach for this role and this is the only , absolutely, singular,exclusive reason he has been considered for the post As he has proved ............. Ohhhhh.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 52 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Which is reflected in football Managerial posts and Coaching posts. However the majorities of white Managers and coaches are far higher in football despite the numbers of non white footballers being higher than your 13%. The numbers of black Managers is around 6%, at times it is far lower. The numbers of black coaches is even lower. If black managers are 6% they aren't underrepresented as they make up ~3-5% of the population. Asian on the other hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Dicks Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/367931/Sol-Campbell-I-would-have-been-England-captain-for-10-years-if-I-was-white Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Ben Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 Hello all this is an interesting topic. To those saying Campbell has just waltzed in to this great job without having been willing to do his time at lower league teams, I’d ask them to compare his case to those of Derby’s Frank Lampard, or Steven Gerrard. I don’t see them as any different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted October 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 24 minutes ago, City Ben said: Hello all this is an interesting topic. To those saying Campbell has just waltzed in to this great job without having been willing to do his time at lower league teams, I’d ask them to compare his case to those of Derby’s Frank Lampard, or Steven Gerrard. I don’t see them as any different. They worked in academies first at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 4 hours ago, Cowshed said: The numbers of black coaches is even lower. Congratulations to our very own Peter Carol then in that case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 Have anyone actually read the article? Sol is NOT the new coach/manager. It’s a placement for BAME people. its essentially work experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballwinningcentrehalf Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 2 hours ago, Red Army 75 said: You can twist my words whatever way it suits you. To be fair, I think he was taking issue with my opening paragraph, but inserted your name accidentally when quoting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Skin Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 5 hours ago, Keep the Faith said: I would have thought that it would be easier for people from ethnic minorities to get a coaching or manger job in football as you take that education bias out of the equation and have a much larger pool of ethnic minorities within the profession who could in theory go on to become coaches and managers. I guess it depends on who has the final say over the appointment. And this may not be about overt racism or discrimination. If the owner or board of the club are directly involved in recruitment, then they will probably favour candidate of a similar background and culture. Someone they have an affinity with. Someone they can trust. If they have had limited interaction with BAME then they would be far less inclined to even interview these candidate. What I like about the Rooney law is that at least they get an interview and a chance to make their case. It's not just a BAME thing. Some organisations will guarantee an interview for a disabled candidates for similar reasons. I don't have a problem with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted October 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 9 minutes ago, Henry said: Have anyone actually read the article? Sol is NOT the new coach/manager. It’s a placement for BAME people. its essentially work experience Yes and I would question whether Campbell is really the right person to benefit from this experience, he has publicly said before that he's not interested unless its a managers job, is this placement going to help him get one or would it be better for another BAME coach whose looking to go in as a coach at a club. Also given Campbell's previous claims that the FA are institutionally racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballwinningcentrehalf Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 3 hours ago, Paul Turnip said: No you didn't say that - just some of them eh? But then isn't that the same in society in general? You can't see that you're pre-judging people based on there age and skin colour? It's throw away generalisations like this that are the problem. Why not just challenge individuals or the view itself. In some cases it’s throw away generalisations that are the problem, in others it’s a deep rooted racism, in others it’s ignorance, in others it’s a lack of acknowledgment that being white and male has for generations put you in a more privileged position than others of different races or genders. I was merely being provocative to ignite some discussion, but my point wasn’t without merit (in my humble opinion). If some people are offended by my saying that their particular age, race and gender might make them less understanding of the issues those of BAME heritage are facing, maybe that just further highlights how privileged they are? Anyway, there have largely been fair comments of varying opinions and I apologise for anyone that was offended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 1 minute ago, ballwinningcentrehalf said: In some cases it’s throw away generalisations that are the problem, in others it’s a deep rooted racism, in others it’s ignorance, in others it’s a lack of acknowledgment that being white and male has for generations put you in a more privileged position than others of different races or genders. I was merely being provocative to ignite some discussion, but my point wasn’t without merit (in my humble opinion). If some people are offended by my saying that their particular age, race and gender might make them less understanding of the issues those of BAME heritage are facing, maybe that just further highlights how privileged they are? Anyway, there have largely been fair comments of varying opinions and I apologise for anyone that was offended. This sounds very American. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Turnip Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 1 hour ago, ballwinningcentrehalf said: In some cases it’s throw away generalisations that are the problem, in others it’s a deep rooted racism, in others it’s ignorance, in others it’s a lack of acknowledgment that being white and male has for generations put you in a more privileged position than others of different races or genders. I was merely being provocative to ignite some discussion, but my point wasn’t without merit (in my humble opinion). If some people are offended by my saying that their particular age, race and gender might make them less understanding of the issues those of BAME heritage are facing, maybe that just further highlights how privileged they are? Anyway, there have largely been fair comments of varying opinions and I apologise for anyone that was offended. Sure, well said and I understand that. I guess I was replying specifically to a largely unhelpful comment in my opinion. Your point that there are many different attitudes is of course true. Just think they should be specifically discussed rather than generalising. You’re right, it’s a difficult subject and it should be talked about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Turnip Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 4 hours ago, Red Army 75 said: You can twist my words whatever way it suits you. Sorry Red Army..... quote fail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devoncider Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 20 hours ago, ballwinningcentrehalf said: Of course, and let me start off by saying I'm not saying those in that category are automatically racist - however I see conversations about topics such as this and often it is the 40+ white male crowd that give similar answers. I'll also take Sol Campbell out of the equation, the issue is bigger than one man. The pretty simple is that BAME individuals are sorely lacking in representation and we need to do more to give them a path way into having opportunities. Society has come a long way, but if anyone truly believes we are now at a stage where these jobs are equally available to BAME applicants, then you are wrong. For years they have been denied opportunities and they continue to be denied opportunities. It's just telling that rather than focusing on the core reasons for this type of scheme, some would rather jump to hyperbole, or highlight a weird hypothetical such as 'LJ wouldn't get this opportunity because he's WHITE?! THAT"S RACISM!', rather than accepting we need to do much more. Often, the first step in schemes like this, or the Rooney Rule, is merely about giving these applicants a chance to get an interview - I think anyone with a brain can accept that in the world of vast majority old, white, male CEO's and business leaders, many BAME candidates will sadly be excluded from even the interview stage for having slightly darker skin, or having a name that's harder to pronounce, or for having a foreign accent. Ran out of likes - superb post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlastonburyRed Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 Would we even have this thread if a white former-professional with 73 England Caps and 400+ top flight appearances was doing some work with the U21's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedJim Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 12 minutes ago, GlastonburyRed said: Would we even have this thread if a white former-professional with 73 England Caps and 400+ top flight appearances was doing some work with the U21's... No, we wouldn't. I can't remember any threads on here saying 'how the hell as Steven Gerrard got the Rangers job with no previous managerial experience?'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlastonburyRed Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, RedJim said: No, we wouldn't. I can't remember any threads on here saying 'how the hell as Steven Gerrard got the Rangers job with no previous managerial experience?'... Cue the "Yeah, but Gerrard had done his coaching badges and was doing all that work with the Liverpool Academy lads to prepare himself for the job" responses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Cyril Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 23 hours ago, Bar BS3 said: I’m a 40 year old white male. My brother in law is a 40 year old black Male. I’m sure he wouldn’t want to get interviewed for a job ahead of me, because of the colour of his skin..! Though to be fair he was clearly the better candidate of the two of you to marry your sister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archie andrews Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 4 hours ago, Mad Cyril said: Though to be fair he was clearly the better candidate of the two of you to marry your sister. he could be marrying his brother too mind......lets not be judgmental...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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