Fuming

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, sglosbcfc said:

Might be worth pointing out that as things stand we are in an improved league position for the fourth consecutive league season. I'm guessing 90% of the football league would bite your arm off for that.

I'm not a happy clapper by any stretch of the imagination and only saw the game from the substitutions onward but I thought we murdered them from then on.

Had we won, as on my viewing we should have, then we would now be fifth in the table.

Clearly the first half must have been poor for some of the comments above, but isn't the beauty of this league how all the teams fight to impose themselves on the game, nobody rolls over to have their belly tickled.

Credit to Rotherham for playing their game, which is effective at home and credit to LJ for changing things when clearly (from comments above) change was needed.

I doubt that Watkins got much sleep last night after that miss, but a clean sheet and a point away from home in this league is not to be sniffed at.......if we beat Wednesday.

[Spoons]

Complete over reaction again on this thread. Why people think we have the right to tip up in Rotherham play amazing football and take the 3 points is beyond me.

This league is hard and historically for us teams that on paper we should beat we don't.

We played awful last night but give some credit to Rotherham. If we played badly and still took a point it's not all bad.

[spudski]

10 minutes ago, Spoons said:

Complete over reaction again on this thread. Why people think we have the right to tip up in Rotherham play amazing football and take the 3 points is beyond me.

This league is hard and historically for us teams that on paper we should beat we don't.

We played awful last night but give some credit to Rotherham. If we played badly and still took a point it's not all bad.

Totally agree...Whilst it's so frustrating when your team plays below expectations, many often forget how tough this league is. We have no divine right to win against anyone in this league, and there will be days when players and the team have off days. Just as many as good imo...as we are an average side in this division.

What puts it into perspective for me, is when I look at the league table, other results, and how teams with far bigger budgets and far more experienced players and managers are struggling and playing below 'expectations'.

We sit one point off the play offs...only lost 3 games all season and have a positive GD.

Our fans in recent months have spoken about how well Preston have played and recruited...yet they sit rooted to the bottom with only one win and 7 losses.

About how well Brentford play and recruit...they sit one point ahead of us.

Far bigger teams than us struggling and sitting below us

It's a league of such fine margins...one shot in, instead of hitting post and we'd be sitting in 5th place.

I know it's frustrating...but pretty much every fan in this league will be saying the same about their team as well.

The season so far, is panning out just as I imagined it would. Mid to play off position.

[Baldyman]

In over 40 years of supporting City I genuinely ca’n’t recall a time where our fans were so split as to whether we were doing ok or whether we simply aren’t good enough on the pitch.  This season has so far been typical of City under LJ. A constant Groundhog Day experience of “Boom or Bust”.The positive thinkers tell us “we’re still in 10th “ and “Look how far we’ve come” but I fear the reality is that if our form continues we’ll very soon be looking at a very different picture and all hell will break loose on this forum. We’ve taken 2 points from 12 scoring just 3 goals in that time.  We’ve failed to beat Villa, Wigan and Rotherham- all teams that you should expect to take points from.  The 50% of our fans who are concerned have every right to be as FORM IS EVERYTHING. We’re in VERY poor form ad most worryingly seem to have no fight or sense of urgency in our play. This dip occurring so early into the season is a real concern and I fear that despite being “just a point of the play offs” , we could be in for a long season. I see what’s in front of me and don’t wear rose tinted specs. ( 40 years of experience tells me how to i.d a side that could really struggle unfortunately) !

[bpexile]

1 hour ago, ScottishRed said:

There is absolutely zero chance of that

I think you are probably right but stranger things have happened. Hopefully LJ will get us back on the winning trail sooner rather than later.

[TV Tom]

54 minutes ago, Spoons said:

Complete over reaction again on this thread. Why people think we have the right to tip up in Rotherham play amazing football and take the 3 points is beyond me.

This league is hard and historically for us teams that on paper we should beat we don't.

We played awful last night but give some credit to Rotherham. If we played badly and still took a point it's not all bad.

Agree to a point but when we play so woefully poor as in the 90 minutes at Wigan and most of last night then it is certainly frustrating, throw in our general away form for 2018 ( not just results but general performances) then I feel we have a right to criticise, our points tally might compare well with last season but our performances certainly don’t, we seem to be going backwards 

[BarnzFM]

Issue is clearly the formation 4-4-2 we struggle to get hold of the ball and have limited options for the pass.

[KingLear]

I think a bit of bigger picture thinking is required here.

Yes the first half performance from City was one of the very worst I have seen in a long time, but we should have won it in the second half and were the better team. Rotherham have made their place a bit of a fortress so far this season (P6, W3, D2, L1) and will be massively relying on their home form to survive.

It's a strange old thing when we get beaten 4-2 and everyone is praising the performance but we earn what will probably turn out to be a solid point but everyone slates the performance.

Looking at the League as it stands, in the last 3 games only the top 3 (Norwich, West Brom & Sheff Utd) have managed to string together back to back wins, almost everyone else in the Championship is struggling to find any sort of consistent form right now. Hence there only being 16 points separating 1st from 24th.

 

 

[Son of Fred]

11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

...and I watched it in the comfort of my own front room.  I feel for those hardy souls who travelled north tonight.

I wrote some things at half-time, because I didn’t want an Improved second half performance cloud my judgement of what I expected to be a better second half.

11 games in and I'm seeing little cohesion and little consistently in our style of play.  Odd glimpses here and there, and that’s taking into account that we have no Devine right to dominate for 90 minutes more.  Rotherham with their simple brand of knock it up to Smith and get runners off of him, played better through the thirds too, which LJ should be appalled at.  Don’t let two shots against woodwork cloud our view that we deserved to win.  Haven’t heard any interview, but having excused LJ for Wigan in the main, and held the blame at the players front, tonight is now a second performance like that and problems lie deeper.

I sense complacency in the ranks.  I see players hiding.  

I don’t like calling out players but it only takes one or two to impact it.

I’m gonna start with Diedhiou.  If he thinks that is a big, strong CF performance tonight he’s kidding himself.  Ajayi won good clean headers 80% of the time, the ball rarely stuck....but worse for me was the lack of effort.  Cosy closing down of the keeper, implying effort, but going through the motions, then jogging back, making little attempt to get back onside in preparation for the next phase.  Look at the example alongside him in Weimann.  In the second half there was a spell of head-tennis in their box.  Brownhill was about to have a free header back into the box and Famara got caught offside.  The same laziness that cost him a volleyed goal in the first half.  He half-heartedly made runs / didn’t make runs depending on your view.  Brownhill was furious with him late on when all he needed was Fam to pull wide, but he hid behind Jones causing him to run into a dead end.  That wasn’t the only time.  He’s beginning to worry me.  City won’t be his steppingstone to be the next Kodjia with performances like that.

The other is O’Dowda. He might be playing to instruction, but I don’t see why from Mäenpää’s kicks he is moving towards the ball from so far up the pitch.  He’s making it easy for his marker to attack the ball.  He needs to attack it from square (like Garner / Leon Best), that is much.  On the ball, it’s 100mph, no composure, over-running the dribble, running it into trouble.  I didn’t see the work rate of last season either.  Has International caps gone to his head?  Tonight was a(nother) chance to really stake a claim.  He failed the audition imho.

The two subs breathed some life into the game, but we should never have got into that position.  LJ could’ve tweaked things in-game without resorting to subs.  Surely a Head-Coach can spot ways to change the course of the game....or at least try.  2 subs on 60 minutes is now becoming a joke.  Had we snatched a win from Watkins, there’s no way I would be calling him a master tactician tonight.  It’s not like Rotherham were gutsy, they had it easy....and played under little pressure.

We are fortunate tonight that Rotherham weren’t very good (still better than us though).  We were fortunate that our defenders in the main turned up.  Webster gave Smith and easy ride, Baker did well, Kelly did his job, and Hunt was better than average.  We have however started to defend deeper (starting position) and our distances (front to back) are increasing.  Diedhiou is part of that.  I sense we are going to hear the ‘players we can trust’ phrase coming out before Wednesday on Sunday!

 

 

 

 

Thanks for putting many of my own thoughts into words,Dave!

We are strung out and lacking any shape/cohesion.....we don't look like were 'together' as a unit in any meaning of the word.

Nondescript.

 

This is your squad now Lee,your men.surely you recognise someone not working hard enough,same way as I do???........

Will be interesting to see how the returning wounded are utilized..

 

Must start with Weimann/Taylor on Sunday!!!

[Leveller]

34 minutes ago, KingLear said:

I think a bit of bigger picture thinking is required here.

Yes the first half performance from City was one of the very worst I have seen in a long time, but we should have won it in the second half and were the better team. Rotherham have made their place a bit of a fortress so far this season (P6, W3, D2, L1) and will be massively relying on their home form to survive.

It's a strange old thing when we get beaten 4-2 and everyone is praising the performance but we earn what will probably turn out to be a solid point but everyone slates the performance.

Looking at the League as it stands, in the last 3 games only the top 3 (Norwich, West Brom & Sheff Utd) have managed to string together back to back wins, almost everyone else in the Championship is struggling to find any sort of consistent form right now. Hence there only being 16 points separating 1st from 24th.

 

 

Agreed. If you look at the Derby and Forest forums today after draws last night, there are a lot of parallels with OTIB. Very few teams are playing well enough to satisfy their fans.

[Major Isewater]

11 hours ago, Moor2Sea said:

I suspect Eliasson escaped your wrath as you didn’t realise he was on the pitch.

That was the most inept performance from a City player I have witnessed for many a year... and I’ve seen a few. He was just prancing around like a patomime horse. He looked completely and utterly devoid of all confidence from the very first minute.

If someone had thought to pass the ball to him perhaps he would have had a better contribution ? 

Our midfield was weak , their number 23 , Williams I think , manmarked Pack out of the game. 

 

[Major Isewater]

2 hours ago, Baldyman said:

In over 40 years of supporting City I genuinely ca’n’t recall a time where our fans were so split as to whether we were doing ok or whether we simply aren’t good enough on the pitch.  This season has so far been typical of City under LJ. A constant Groundhog Day experience of “Boom or Bust”.The positive thinkers tell us “we’re still in 10th “ and “Look how far we’ve come” but I fear the reality is that if our form continues we’ll very soon be looking at a very different picture and all hell will break loose on this forum. We’ve taken 2 points from 12 scoring just 3 goals in that time.  We’ve failed to beat Villa, Wigan and Rotherham- all teams that you should expect to take points from.  The 50% of our fans who are concerned have every right to be as FORM IS EVERYTHING. We’re in VERY poor form ad most worryingly seem to have no fight or sense of urgency in our play. This dip occurring so early into the season is a real concern and I fear that despite being “just a point of the play offs” , we could be in for a long season. I see what’s in front of me and don’t wear rose tinted specs. ( 40 years of experience tells me how to i.d a side that could really struggle unfortunately) !

I don't agree with your ' lack of ' fight or urgency ' , Rotherham flew into us from the off and we stood up to them .

They were at home where they've done better than many expected. 

We still have not found our rhythm but there are encouraging signs amongst the doom.

We picked up a point where often in the past a match like that would have ended in defeat for the City.

A win on Sunday and we're back brimming with confidence and optimism.

[Major Isewater]

56 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Agreed. If you look at the Derby and Forest forums today after draws last night, there are a lot of parallels with OTIB. Very few teams are playing well enough to satisfy their fans.

It's still early for most teams to have ' clicked ' after the summer transfers, in and out.

The season comes alive from December onwards. 

[NOTBLUE]

Shape and leaders,wrong and none.

[SStandUp]

13 hours ago, Davefevs said:

...and I watched it in the comfort of my own front room.  I feel for those hardy souls who travelled north tonight.

I wrote some things at half-time, because I didn’t want an Improved second half performance cloud my judgement of what I expected to be a better second half.

11 games in and I'm seeing little cohesion and little consistently in our style of play.  Odd glimpses here and there, and that’s taking into account that we have no Devine right to dominate for 90 minutes more.  Rotherham with their simple brand of knock it up to Smith and get runners off of him, played better through the thirds too, which LJ should be appalled at.  Don’t let two shots against woodwork cloud our view that we deserved to win.  Haven’t heard any interview, but having excused LJ for Wigan in the main, and held the blame at the players front, tonight is now a second performance like that and problems lie deeper.

I sense complacency in the ranks.  I see players hiding.  

I don’t like calling out players but it only takes one or two to impact it.

I’m gonna start with Diedhiou.  If he thinks that is a big, strong CF performance tonight he’s kidding himself.  Ajayi won good clean headers 80% of the time, the ball rarely stuck....but worse for me was the lack of effort.  Cosy closing down of the keeper, implying effort, but going through the motions, then jogging back, making little attempt to get back onside in preparation for the next phase.  Look at the example alongside him in Weimann.  In the second half there was a spell of head-tennis in their box.  Brownhill was about to have a free header back into the box and Famara got caught offside.  The same laziness that cost him a volleyed goal in the first half.  He half-heartedly made runs / didn’t make runs depending on your view.  Brownhill was furious with him late on when all he needed was Fam to pull wide, but he hid behind Jones causing him to run into a dead end.  That wasn’t the only time.  He’s beginning to worry me.  City won’t be his steppingstone to be the next Kodjia with performances like that.

The other is O’Dowda. He might be playing to instruction, but I don’t see why from Mäenpää’s kicks he is moving towards the ball from so far up the pitch.  He’s making it easy for his marker to attack the ball.  He needs to attack it from square (like Garner / Leon Best), that is much.  On the ball, it’s 100mph, no composure, over-running the dribble, running it into trouble.  I didn’t see the work rate of last season either.  Has International caps gone to his head?  Tonight was a(nother) chance to really stake a claim.  He failed the audition imho.

The two subs breathed some life into the game, but we should never have got into that position.  LJ could’ve tweaked things in-game without resorting to subs.  Surely a Head-Coach can spot ways to change the course of the game....or at least try.  2 subs on 60 minutes is now becoming a joke.  Had we snatched a win from Watkins, there’s no way I would be calling him a master tactician tonight.  It’s not like Rotherham were gutsy, they had it easy....and played under little pressure.

We are fortunate tonight that Rotherham weren’t very good (still better than us though).  We were fortunate that our defenders in the main turned up.  Webster gave Smith and easy ride, Baker did well, Kelly did his job, and Hunt was better than average.  We have however started to defend deeper (starting position) and our distances (front to back) are increasing.  Diedhiou is part of that.  I sense we are going to hear the ‘players we can trust’ phrase coming out before Wednesday on Sunday!

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure you've hammered Johnson in the pass for not making subs sooner? And here we are after he made 2 subs that changed the game and you're hammering him.

Our fan base is a shambles. And utter shambles 

[soultrader]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

I don't agree with your ' lack of ' fight or urgency ' , Rotherham flew into us from the off and we stood up to them .

They were at home where they've done better than many expected. 

We still have not found our rhythm but there are encouraging signs amongst the doom.

We picked up a point where often in the past a match like that would have ended in defeat for the City.

A win on Sunday and we're back brimming with confidence and optimism.

 

Was just wondering the same thing.  Maybe our dips in form are getting better ?   As in we draw rather than go on a loosing streak?

Plus it is early in the season, so I don't think we need to start buying cabbages just yet

 

 

[Mtimmy11]

I don’t like lee Johnson I never will but Bristol city are my team and have been for 40 odd years.the proplem  with the red button is thats I watch city for 15mins then find myself trying to find a more skill full match on anouther side which I find worrying

[cidered abroad]

5 hours ago, Countryfile said:

I'm not a happy clapper by any stretch of the imagination and only saw the game from the substitutions onward but I thought we murdered them from then on.

Had we won, as on my viewing we should have, then we would now be fifth in the table.

Clearly the first half must have been poor for some of the comments above, but isn't the beauty of this league how all the teams fight to impose themselves on the game, nobody rolls over to have their belly tickled.

Credit to Rotherham for playing their game, which is effective at home and credit to LJ for changing things when clearly (from comments above) change was needed.

I doubt that Watkins got much sleep last night after that miss, but a clean sheet and a point away from home in this league is not to be sniffed at.......if we beat Wednesday.

Credit to LJ? We're starting very poorly in almost every match so he is forced to change tactics.

Why doesn't he start with the alternative?

The inconsistent form is very clear for all to see. Yet we are still within comfortable touching distance from the top six.

And another two or three matches, if we don't improve, within reach of the bottom six.

If I was a gambling man, which would I put my money on?

PS. I somehow doubt we'll do another 4-0 on Wednesday.

[bcdc]

2 hours ago, Mtimmy11 said:

I don’t like lee Johnson I never will but Bristol city are my team and have been for 40 odd years.the proplem  with the red button is thats I watch city for 15mins then find myself trying to find a more skill full match on anouther side which I find worrying

I thin you may have, in passing, hit on a real issue about how fans (not just our own) assess their teams performances.  There is an historically  unprecedented volume of live, top grade football on the box, and I'm guessing that most keen football fans will be subscribing to Sky, BT or both. I suspect that this has upped the level of expectations for fans when it comes to analysing the performance of their own clubs.  Look at most championship clubs' forums, and they are riddled with moans about style and performance.  We are not in the top league, but fans have become insentitised to where we are actually playing; it's as if your team isn't playing well if you're not playing like Man City or Liverpool. The ubiquity of available top grade football,is, to a real extent, leading to unrealistic and often incredibly harsh assessments - I'm NOT talking about the Wigan game here! - of how teams are performing.  Have many of us got unachievably high expectations?

I remember the football played in the 60s and 70s in the old Second Division, and in terms of pace and technique (aided hugely by the quite staggering improvement in the pitches and groundskeeping) I think today's players are streets ahead.  Others have mentioned here the fact that so many fans seem to think we have a right to turn up and claim points, as if the other sides, like Rotherham, are not going to be prepared to fight for the points.  It seems to me the levels of preparation ans sophistication in coaching have also moved on enormously - including at Championship level - hence the increasing tendency for anyone being able to beat anyone in this division.

in some ways it feels like a perfect storm, meaning that although we support City, the unachievable standards we are expecting result in a level of criticality and unhappiness among many supporters that, quite literally, can't be met.  

That's the analytical bit...quite what could be done about it is another point altogether.

Right, I'll go and put my tin hat on now.

[Maesknoll Red]

4 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

 

The season comes alive from December onwards. 

How firmly is your tongue wedged in your cheek.......  last season I would suggest our season declined rapidly after December, ended up in ICU, with the priest on standby, but then there was a slight improvement, just before he administered the last rites.  This season the patient started a fairly miraculous recovery, but has now relapsed slightly, the prognosis for the rest of the season is difficult, due to the unpredictability of the affliction.

[spudski]

4 minutes ago, bcdc said:

I thin you may have, in passing, hit on a real issue about how fans (not just our own) assess their teams performances.  There is an historically  unprecedented volume of live, top grade football on the box, and I'm guessing that most keen football fans will be subscribing to Sky, BT or both. I suspect that this has upped the level of expectations for fans when it comes to analysing the performance of their own clubs.  Look at most championship clubs' forums, and they are riddled with moans about style and performance.  We are not in the top league, but fans have become insentitised to where we are actually playing; it's as if your team isn't playing well if you're not playing like Man City or Liverpool. The ubiquity of available top grade football,is, to a real extent, leading to unrealistic and often incredibly harsh assessments - I'm NOT talking about the Wigan game here! - of how teams are performing.  Have many of us got unachievably high expectations?

I remember the football played in the 60s and 70s in the old Second Division, and in terms of pace and technique (aided hugely by the quite staggering improvement in the pitches and groundskeeping) I think today's players are streets ahead.  Others have mentioned here the fact that so many fans seem to think we have a right to turn up and claim points, as if the other sides, like Rotherham, are not going to be prepared to fight for the points.  It seems to me the levels of preparation ans sophistication in coaching have also moved on enormously - including at Championship level - hence the increasing tendency for anyone being able to beat anyone in this division.

in some ways it feels like a perfect storm, meaning that although we support City, the unachievable standards we are expecting result in a level of criticality and unhappiness among many supporters that, quite literally, can't be met.  

That's the analytical bit...quite what could be done about it is another point altogether.

Right, I'll go and put my tin hat on now.

Nice post.

Like you say...football has changed so much...it's incomparable to the football in the not so distant past.

Levels and quality of footballers, coaching, technique, analytics, physic and fitness etc, etc have all risen over the years in all divisions.

Football isn't such a simple game anymore...as much as some still think it is.

Tactics and movement and awareness, patterns of play...so intricate these days and at speed. Over 90 mins. You've only got to go back and watch clips on youtube of how cumbersome some of the football played was, back in the day.

I think it's harder for the fan to understand why certain things happen on the pitch these days.

So much goes into planning a game.

Why one week, a player like say for example Pack plays sublime, but the next is less effective. It happens to every player.

Each team is different...each plays slightly differently. Strengths and weaknesses.

Plus we are dealing with human beings.

Who wakes up one morning and feels totally different to the day before? I know I do...somedays lethargic, others very active. You wonder why...as you've done nothing differently. It's the same for footballers.

With so much info on the net...it's easy for fans to get really deeply involved in stats etc...but that's only any good if you know the whole picture, what's happening at the club, what the game plan is, who's carrying knocks etc. Then you have to factor in what the opposition are doing.

So many different scenarios...so many to factor into a game.

I don't get annoyed anymore. It is what it is.

I try to enjoy the game...realise it's a tough league and enjoy watching both sides play and trying to outwit one another.

I don't let it effect me like I used to.

It's entertainment...a past time. Yes, it can be frustrating...but that's natural, as we want perfection.

However perfection isn't always sexy.

It's fun watching footy in this league and I enjoy every game, regardless of the result. I only ever get frustrated if I think a player isn't putting in a shift, which is very rare.

 

[Major Isewater]

3 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

How firmly is your tongue wedged in your cheek.......  last season I would suggest our season declined rapidly, ended up in ICU, with the priest on standby, but then there was a slight improvement, just before he administered the last rites.  This season the patient started a fairly miraculous recovery, but has now relapsed slightly, the prognosis for the rest of the season is difficult, due to the unpredictability of the affliction.

I was talking generally .

The Players in the promotion / relegation battle are normally identified by Christmas, the second part of the season is the business end .

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

34 minutes ago, bcdc said:

I thin you may have, in passing, hit on a real issue about how fans (not just our own) assess their teams performances.  There is an historically  unprecedented volume of live, top grade football on the box, and I'm guessing that most keen football fans will be subscribing to Sky, BT or both. I suspect that this has upped the level of expectations for fans when it comes to analysing the performance of their own clubs.  Look at most championship clubs' forums, and they are riddled with moans about style and performance.  We are not in the top league, but fans have become insentitised to where we are actually playing; it's as if your team isn't playing well if you're not playing like Man City or Liverpool. The ubiquity of available top grade football,is, to a real extent, leading to unrealistic and often incredibly harsh assessments - I'm NOT talking about the Wigan game here! - of how teams are performing.  Have many of us got unachievably high expectations?

 I remember the football played in the 60s and 70s in the old Second Division, and in terms of pace and technique (aided hugely by the quite staggering improvement in the pitches and groundskeeping) I think today's players are streets ahead.  Others have mentioned here the fact that so many fans seem to think we have a right to turn up and claim points, as if the other sides, like Rotherham, are not going to be prepared to fight for the points.  It seems to me the levels of preparation ans sophistication in coaching have also moved on enormously - including at Championship level - hence the increasing tendency for anyone being able to beat anyone in this division.

in some ways it feels like a perfect storm, meaning that although we support City, the unachievable standards we are expecting result in a level of criticality and unhappiness among many supporters that, quite literally, can't be met.  

That's the analytical bit...quite what could be done about it is another point altogether.

Right, I'll go and put my tin hat on now.

I wasn't around in the 60's or 70's, but from footage I've seen of football back then, the game in many ways has come on hugely- hell tactically and technically it has even stepped up significantly in the last 10 or so- go back 10 years and most sides at this level were playing a reasonably standard 4-4-2. Funnily, the year before that we broke the mould with our 4-4-1-1, not many sides at this level played that way at all in our first half to the playoff final season- but we did and GJ in that respect was ahead of his time.

Definitely, tactically, preparation, sophistication- to say nothing of fitness, training and dietary regimes are all a world away IMO from that era.

Agreed to a point on expectations vs football on BT and Sky, though I think it depends too on whether fans think the manager is getting the best out of the side, giving it the best possible platform to succeed. Definitely would argue that our 4-4-2 isn't giving us that best chance, reasonable result though last night was.

Don't have Sky, but on BT I can watch Champions League, I can watch some PL, top games from Bundesliga, some top games (admittedly less depth) from Ligue 1- thinking PSG, Lyon, Monaco, or Marseille at their best. Last year I could see Serie A and the style of quite a few sides there- again the high level football being ubiquitous means there could be some harsh assessments as you rightly point out.

[Maesknoll Red]

56 minutes ago, bcdc said:

I thin you may have, in passing, hit on a real issue about how fans (not just our own) assess their teams performances.  There is an historically  unprecedented volume of live, top grade football on the box, and I'm guessing that most keen football fans will be subscribing to Sky, BT or both. I suspect that this has upped the level of expectations for fans when it comes to analysing the performance of their own clubs.  Look at most championship clubs' forums, and they are riddled with moans about style and performance.  We are not in the top league, but fans have become insentitised to where we are actually playing; it's as if your team isn't playing well if you're not playing like Man City or Liverpool. The ubiquity of available top grade football,is, to a real extent, leading to unrealistic and often incredibly harsh assessments - I'm NOT talking about the Wigan game here! - of how teams are performing.  Have many of us got unachievably high expectations?

I remember the football played in the 60s and 70s in the old Second Division, and in terms of pace and technique (aided hugely by the quite staggering improvement in the pitches and groundskeeping) I think today's players are streets ahead.  Others have mentioned here the fact that so many fans seem to think we have a right to turn up and claim points, as if the other sides, like Rotherham, are not going to be prepared to fight for the points.  It seems to me the levels of preparation ans sophistication in coaching have also moved on enormously - including at Championship level - hence the increasing tendency for anyone being able to beat anyone in this division.

in some ways it feels like a perfect storm, meaning that although we support City, the unachievable standards we are expecting result in a level of criticality and unhappiness among many supporters that, quite literally, can't be met.  

That's the analytical bit...quite what could be done about it is another point altogether.

Right, I'll go and put my tin hat on now.

Can’t see any need for a tin hat, I would expect with standards going up at the top, for that to filter down and the standards below be higher, especially if it’s a lot to do with modern training, nutrition, tactics, ability to get data and dissect each performance.  Not sure that is happening as much as it could though.

From the Premier League to the Championship is quite a big drop, the parachute payments disguise that to some extent, allowing relegated clubs to operate outside of the FFP rules for the rest of the league - an oddity I have raised before and IMO needs addressing.  If you took away that parachute payment or significantly reduced it, contracts would have to take into account the financial risk of relegation.  That may well increase the gap between the PL and the Championship, which probably isn’t a good thing in the long run, but it would even up the Championship somewhat, there will always be clubs who by one means or another have more funds for players than others.

 That might then reduce expectations, the reason for the vast majority of players playing at the level they are, is that is there level, less inconsistency with ability, higher level, more inconsistency with ability, lower level, you obviously have youngsters coming up through and good players determined to keep playing, dropping down as age takes its toll.  Although, if someone watches 4 or 5 PL games a week and then some Champions League as well, watching what was dished up on the red button last night, will seem a poor imitation of ‘the beautiful game’.

Not sure what the answer is, as I think that it’s only a matter of theme before every game, even the Saturday 3pm kickoff’s are televised via one media source or another, so the issue isn’t going away anytime soon..

[Bazooka Joe]

4 hours ago, ForeverRes said:

I'm pretty sure you've hammered Johnson in the pass for not making subs sooner? And here we are after he made 2 subs that changed the game and you're hammering him.

Our fan base is a shambles. And utter shambles 

If we had won the game , I might have agreed with you.

But the fact is we failed to beat (or even score a goal against) a (very weakened- through-injuries) Rotherham second string side.

The only shambles was what we saw on the pitch last night.

[Bristol Oil Services]

17 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 

I don’t think they did press us (certainly not like Wigan) that hard, we just didn’t work hard enough off the ball to create angles / options.

Interesting. I was listening Radio Bris and at one point the commentator said he could hear LJ shouting "move!" I took this to mean he wanted them to do what you refer to above.

So why would they not be moving off the ball enough? It's not something they forget or do not know about. 

[Undy English]

8 hours ago, Spoons said:

Complete over reaction again on this thread. Why people think we have the right to tip up in Rotherham play amazing football and take the 3 points is beyond me.

This league is hard and historically for us teams that on paper we should beat we don't.

We played awful last night but give some credit to Rotherham. If we played badly and still took a point it's not all bad.

Agree entirely, but then I didn't travel North, or watch it. I feel for those that did....

[REDOXO]

We are in touch at the right end of the table. 

We are building a team. It’s not helped by a loss of form with Pack which has hurt Weimanns effectiveness. We were awful at Wigan. Last night was not great but we should have won, our goalkeeper really didn’t have to make a save against a team that played well for decent periods. 

Take a look back. A year ago we played a poor Fulham team off the park. They went on to get promoted. We need to find some form but it’s still early days  we have shown some form but need to be consistent  

We need a decent result on Sunday of course but we have players to come back and everything to play for until May

As some who have read my posts over the last couple of years may realise I’m not a fan of LJ but we are playing a newer team after making some dosh. Not time to panic yet. 

[pnefcok]

9 hours ago, spudski said:

Our fans in recent months have spoken about how well Preston have played and recruited...yet they sit rooted to the bottom with only one win and 7 losses.

We (the owner) cocked up this summer. Players sold, no reinvestment. Only way you'll go is down the table, feel sorry for AN and the players.

[Fuber]

19 hours ago, Moor2Sea said:

I suspect Eliasson escaped your wrath as you didn’t realise he was on the pitch.

That was the most inept performance from a City player I have witnessed for many a year... and I’ve seen a few. He was just prancing around like a patomime horse. He looked completely and utterly devoid of all confidence from the very first minute.

Stems from some of LJs pointless squad rotation.

Looked a changed man after the first 5 games of the season. Got swapped in and out a couple, lost momentum. Back at square one.

I'm a broken record at this point. But LJs man management is atrocious.