What do you individually want Bristol City to achieve?

[Cowshed]

Error..

[BobBobSuperBob]

35 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Your last sentence LJs apparent thinking in recruitment and playing ideas and ethos MUDDLED should read is clearly integrated into a model of play rather than muddled.

A Marley Watkins for instance looks to have the skills to be that busy bee (like that analogy) in a high press and other modes of pressing, but you note a technical deficiency. High pressing is also integrated alongside passing ability and having numerical superiority when the team loses it. Forget pressing but passing can he busily pass it one touch two !?

Famara .. Done that. Press has to abandoned or altered to accommodate.  

Webster is a obvious improvement at CB if City are truly pursuing a model of play out through the thirds. Lee Johnson has indicated he accepts the risk but that is different to the notion of being wholly integrated. Webster is on the ball frequently but are receivers really creating options for constant support? Are players from other lines dropping to provide width or support behind the line of the ball?

Pack is struggling. Is he getting players showing for the ball creating not one, two but three options? 

Are players creating numerical superiority to create secure possession (secure possessions zones)?

Questions should be answered with a yes if City are really on a path of managing the ball through the thirds.

My answers are no. 

That eighteen months on the training ground has to be spent on concentrating relentlessly on the one model of play and its principles. Deep learning, and confidence comes from knowledge gained from preparation, and of course winning. The past eighteen months, and more has been spent training for different styles of play. Episodic training versus periodized training is known to be ineffectual. If you have differing styles of play and City are going down different paths this season home and away the training cannot be as consistent as that which focusses on that one model of play. The necessary conscious competence and subconscious competence of a fluid team playing with belief is compromised by flip flopping between styles.   

The above is true for Warnock or Guardiola .. They both choose wildly different paths with bold single minded belief. Mr Johnson may become single minded in the future … Muddled it is now.

Thankyou

Interesting points

Regarding the time spent on the training ground - is it your assessment / view that they’ve veered off coaching other set ups (I wouldn’t disagree with such a belief) or you are actually aware that’s the case ?

Ive Posted about the highlighted bit a few times recently - for me one of the glaring problems with Pack (Not at his best admittedly) actually getting blamed by a number

[Cowshed]

 

46 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agreed about the Championship being better than ever before, organisation, tactical astuteness- the hard pressing- it is now fairly ubiquitous.

The Plan B. Unconvinced we have a regular one, but in terms of a game this season- best example of that I would give- would be Sheffield United at home. We totally changed shape to match up and helped nullify them until the changes later on when we took advantage.

I get what LJ is trying to do if the ethos is a more attractive game, but it is muddled- generally the best passing sides play with a 3 at the back, or a central midfield 3- dominate those central areas or at least fill them up, and you have much more of a chance of controlling the ball. Don't even have to talk CL level or some of the top teams in the top Leagues (who generally are CL sides)- or even Wolves because of their creative recruitment strategy let's call it. I'm talking Sheffield United- more often than not, dominate the ball and more importantly control the game- they play a 3-4-1-2 and last season even more so it was a 3-5-1-1, a really interesting style.

Championship has evolved as you rightly point out- and as such, with more traditional wingers and more traditional full backs and a standard 4-4-2, dominating possession in that shape is just hard- it's disjointed! Would argue that the higher you go, the more that shape is a reactive one these days, though not necessarily if you lay it out as a 4-1-3-2 or a 4-3-1-2 with the dominance in a central sense, all 4 midfielders being central.

In short, what I'm saying is that signing Webster, Kalas and to an extent, Maenpaa- and trying to play a possession game- ain't compatible at this level in a 4-4-2 with wingers and regular full backs- I know Kalas is injured but the point still stands. It wastes their attributes and gives the team less cohesion I feel if you sign those players and then play 4-4-2.

If you believe formations are fluid it is compatible. If you feel players need more structure at this level 4-3-3? The wide players add options easy if they drop creating overloads.

[Mr Popodopolous]

32 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

 

If you believe formations are fluid it is compatible. If you feel players need more structure at this level 4-3-3? The wide players add options easy if they drop creating overloads.

Agree to a point- they can be fluid, I guess it could work with a 4-4-2, but not necessarily with these personnel is what I'm trying to say.

Do you see Eliasson and Watkins coming inside? O'Dowda maybe- just think it restricts us unnecessarily- 4-3-3 can be incredibly fluid anyway, likewise Sheffield United's 3-4-1-2.  Depends on the type of wingers too I feel- well wingers or wide midfielders depending on definition. Brownhill and Bryan were excellent for this last season during our top spell- Eliasson, O'Dowda and Watkins? Mostly not so sure.

You mention in other posts Webster as being ideal for playing through the thirds? How about Kalas- similar, not so much? At Fulham he was excellent technically, and I rather assumed (hoped is more like it) we were planning to move to a Fulham type 4-3-3 this season.

Depends on the type of 4-4-2 as well IMO- a 4-3-1-2 or even a 4-1-3-2- they might all say 4-4-2 on paper- but all undoubtedly have different characteristics- ours most resembles a standard 4-4-2, our setup last night first half definitely did.

In short, I don't think traditional 4-4-2 is so fluid, less so still with the current setup.

[IdliketoRogerMoore]

Greatness!

[Bristol Oil Services]

I want Bristol City, at some point, to achieve something special. Winning League One, and the Tin Pot cup, in 2015 was nice, a bit more than that, but it wasn't special. Finishing 11th in the Championship is commendable, but not special. 

For a few months last season, we were looking a bit special, we all felt a bit special, but in football, you need to keep it up for longer and most special things in football are achieved after Easter, not around Christmas  (Swindon being the exception here). 

Winning a proper cup - or perhaps getting to a major final - would be special, something none of us have experienced, but nowadays, achievement means being in the Premier League. Knocking Man Utd out of the cup was special but I have seen us in League Cup semi before, and we have beaten Man Utd before, done a league double over them no less, and there is a bit of a difference now between cup football and league football. Cup football is a distant second to the week in, week out stuff.

As difficult as it is to win promotion from this division without parachute payments and paying enormous wages, other clubs no bigger than us have managed it and it is about time we at least got properly involved in the race for promotion. For more than one season, like ten years ago (then back to usual soon after). It does mean over-achieving, punching above our weight, but this is what football is about, and many others manage this every season. I want to see us excell (for nine months, not four) and achieve something miraculous and special: something that will stay with this generation of City fans like 76-80 has with a previous one. 

But I don't expect this to happen. Because it's bloody difficult and very unlikely. Almost unthinkable, in this city. Which is what would make it so special. 

 

[Swede]

I think it has to be a 7.

In all of my years supporting this club I have never known a better time than now, even if currently on field doesn't match what's going on off field.

The vibrancy of the fan village, the innovative way you can access three sides of the stadium from the inside. The proposed training facility and the Arena park. Clearly massive investment being made with private funding.

Make no mistake Bristol Sport is firmly being put on the map.

With the football side I would be looking at top ten but factoring in losing the club's three best players will have an effect.

You can argue that we are more solid at the back with a proper right back and a ball playing centre back.

My biggest concern is lack of depth in the squad which is affecting the performances.

For some reason LJ will not start Walsh,   Hegeler has been told he can go, Eisa is not Duric's replacement.

We need to have the options to use the whole squad otherwise we will be in trouble with injuries.

[BS2 Red]

Realistically? I’d like us to be at the top end of the Championship pushing for a Premier League space.

Fantasy? Winning the Premier League and Champions League 25 times (as a minimum) in a row.

[WhistleHappy]

10 hours ago, daored said:

I would like us to follow the Brentford model. Good young manager whose team plays attractive, attacking football. A club that’s willing to take a ‘punt’ on lower league players and develop them. I appreciate we’ve supposedly tried this , I just think we need to be creative in locating that next gem.

I believe with the infrastructure at the club we could really thrive.

Too bad 'Uncle Pete' is down in Torquay with Johnson Snr then, innit?  

 

….. NOT! 

[WhistleHappy]

2 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Error..

Typical …

This has been our problem all along ….. Too many individual errors all too frequent! 

 

Sort yourself out @Cowshed or you'll find yerself warming the OTIB bench!!!

[sticks 1969]

I would love to see the ground fully completed. The atyeo was a great stand but since the redevelopment of the rest of the ground   It just looks so little and a bit out of place . ( not much to ask) 

[Lanterne Rouge]

I`m about a 7/8 I think. I`m broadly happy with things but I am one of those who doesn`t see the Premier League as the be all and end all. My take on every season is let`s get to 50 points and see where things take us after that. I`m happy being competitive in this league I guess. Bung in the odd Korey v Man Utd moment along the way and I`ll be satisfied.

[robin_unreliant]

I'm about a 6/7 with LJ. We're more or less where you would realistically expect us to be in the table. Over his time here his average points return isn't bad at all.

My main concern is that I'm not sure he has a clear plan on how to progress. I'm not convinced he knew why we played so well the first half of last season or why we go on horror runs.

Managers like Warnock have a formula and know what type of player and system they need to complete that formula. You might not enjoy watching it but he knows it will deliver because he understands WHY it works. There is a definite plan.

I don't think LJ has that - he has a hotpotch of things that he throws in, apparently influenced by the opposition. Sometimes it works, sometimes it flops.

I don't see it delivering promotion but I'm content with being a steady mid-table club flirting with the play offs for now.

[Davefevs]

16 hours ago, RedDave said:

All I ask for is to play a attractive football and make maximum effort. Preferably in at least this league. Had enough of League one over the years and no desperate urge to get to the Premier League. I kind of dread the thought of becoming a Crystal Palace, just trying to survive.

That’s the dilemma for me.  I want to win, not necessarily win-ugly, but I can take pleasure out of an attritional win, where I’ve seen discipline that’s gradually eked the reward.  The dilemma when we don’t win, is that I want us to have performed.  The perversity of being happy(ish) with 2-4 v West Brom, But ‘fuming’ at 0-0 with Rotherham.

Basically, I don’t know what I want! 

[DaveInSA]

What I want is: Committed players who perform consistently. Attractive, attacking football. Being difficult to beat.

I'm not interested in the Premier League at all. An influx of over paid, foreign players who I've never heard of. Not for me thanks.

I'm at about a 6.

I think LJ is trying different things this year. Clearly, trying to make us tough to beat. This sometimes conflicts with attractive attacking football. I was fed up of us getting mugged so many times, from winning positions. To draw and lose as much (from winning positions) as we have always done is not acceptable.

[DaveInSA]

12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

That’s the dilemma for me.  I want to win, not necessarily win-ugly, but I can take pleasure out of an attritional win, where I’ve seen discipline that’s gradually eked the reward.  The dilemma when we don’t win, is that I want us to have performed.  The perversity of being happy(ish) with 2-4 v West Brom, But ‘fuming’ at 0-0 with Rotherham.

Basically, I don’t know what I want! 

@Davefevs, it's called a Psychiatrist

[Cowshed]

On ‎04‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 17:01, BobBobSuperBob said:

Thankyou

Interesting points

Regarding the time spent on the training ground - is it your assessment / view that they’ve veered off coaching other set ups (I wouldn’t disagree with such a belief) or you are actually aware that’s the case ?

Ive Posted about the highlighted bit a few times recently - for me one of the glaring problems with Pack (Not at his best admittedly) actually getting blamed by a number

Its a view, not a know, but if we look at things logically and believe competency is coached in over weeks, months and by repetition … The best and successful rarely veer from their model of football in preparation and in game play. 

Again that line a team is a reflection of the Managers ideals ... Movement is that reflection … Movement is coached in to play.

On ‎04‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 17:30, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agree to a point- they can be fluid, I guess it could work with a 4-4-2, but not necessarily with these personnel is what I'm trying to say.

Do you see Eliasson and Watkins coming inside? O'Dowda maybe- just think it restricts us unnecessarily- 4-3-3 can be incredibly fluid anyway, likewise Sheffield United's 3-4-1-2.  Depends on the type of wingers too I feel- well wingers or wide midfielders depending on definition. Brownhill and Bryan were excellent for this last season during our top spell- Eliasson, O'Dowda and Watkins? Mostly not so sure.

You mention in other posts Webster as being ideal for playing through the thirds? How about Kalas- similar, not so much? At Fulham he was excellent technically, and I rather assumed (hoped is more like it) we were planning to move to a Fulham type 4-3-3 this season.

Depends on the type of 4-4-2 as well IMO- a 4-3-1-2 or even a 4-1-3-2- they might all say 4-4-2 on paper- but all undoubtedly have different characteristics- ours most resembles a standard 4-4-2, our setup last night first half definitely did.

In short, I don't think traditional 4-4-2 is so fluid, less so still with the current setup.

All formations are fluid. However 4-3-3 is in essence a formation where it is easy to create width and depth. This thus creates space for players to come inside into half spaces etc .. If players really cannot appreciate space, then somebody should have been checking that dna to fit the identity more thoroughly … 

[Bazooka Joe]

On 04/10/2018 at 08:52, ChippenhamRed said:

Why is it assumed that “Steve Lansdown is happy with this”?

Lansdown has said repeatedly that he wants to see this club in the Premier League and I believe him. I don’t believe he would have invested so much in our infrastructure if he was content with the Championship. I don’t think he is happy just to be in the Championship, but I also think he wants to do it with incremental improvement and sustainable growth. Given the club is on course for a 5th consecutive season of league position improvement, I’d say he’s getting something right. Just because he isn’t throwing endless amounts of money at the problem doesn’t mean he’s content with where we are.

It's not about "if"

It's more about "when".

and if what Ashton said/suggested reflects what Lansdown thinks or wants, it certainly wasn't last year.

For me, it's got to be sooner rather than later.

[Eddie Hitler]

I want Bristol City to be the most successful club in the world; dwarfing Real Madrid's current pre-eminence.  Surely that's what all fans want for their club whether they're supporting Man City, Bristol City or Salisbury City?

Though obviously reality kicks in at some point and my, I hope realistic, desire is that we are promoted to the premiership prior to 2025 and, even if we get relegated first time, are up there and comfortably safe from relegation by 2030.

I think that there is a lot more to achieving that than the managerial ability or otherwise of Lee Johnson; a really professional set up does not rise or fall just because of a single employee.