Have a look at yourselves!

[exAtyeoMax]

5 minutes ago, ForeverRes said:

I agree with consistency? But are they a frustrating group to manage? One minute they look brilliant and confident on the ball, the next they don't! 

I think Johnson has eluded to that in a not so blunt way several times!

Some will say that lies at the managers door, but individual inconsistency lies at the players feet for me! For example pack, last 3 games has been average, Johnson wouldn't of all of sudden told him to be doing anything differently. His performances individually have dropped off and that's hard for a manager to savour 

But surely it is the manager's job to sort out those problems? Either through coaching or just having a word.

People on here are questioning the lack of leadership on the pitch and suggesting different options in midfield to either give MP a rest, or help him out and even changes in formation. People are also confused as to why LW hasn't been given a chance

[BS4 on Tour...]

22 minutes ago, ForeverRes said:

We sold our 3 best players... we're a selling club. You're simply not going to see a linear progression....

A couple of seasons back we sold Kodjia, Ayling, Freeman and Williams - and then finished higher than the previous season...

[SStandUp]

9 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

But surely it is the manager's job to sort out those problems? Either through coaching or just having a word.

People on here are questioning the lack of leadership on the pitch and suggesting different options in midfield to either give MP a rest, or help him out and even changes in formation. People are also confused as to why LW hasn't been given a chance

Do you really invisage it being that easy. 

From the outside, we can offer opinions and that's what keeps it interesting. But Johnson has a better understanding of football than us, he sees the boys everyday in training, if he thought Walsh was good enough he'd be playing 

[ScottishRed]

16 minutes ago, ForeverRes said:

I agree with consistency? But are they a frustrating group to manage? One minute they look brilliant and confident on the ball, the next they don't! 

I think Johnson has eluded to that in a not so blunt way several times!

Some will say that lies at the managers door, but individual inconsistency lies at the players feet for me! For example pack, last 3 games has been average, Johnson wouldn't of all of sudden told him to be doing anything differently. His performances individually have dropped off and that's hard for a manager to savour 

But that is simply not the point.

All players go through rough spells, ONE option is to drop them, with Marlon we actually can't because Korey is injured and Walsh is not up to it.

Where does the blame lie for the lack of options?

We have hardly been sparing on buying players in the last 3 years.

The HC / Manager of any team needs to have quality cover in all positions - in CM we simply don't have it.

There is also an argument that the situation is the same at CF.

Poor recruitment, lack of identity and lack of leaders explains an awful lot about the last two games.

[redsquirrel]

I think my main fear is after a couple of awful performances,we could be heading for another winless record breaker.  ok,we might not but we all know it can happen rather quickly off the back of some decent form

[SStandUp]

1 minute ago, ScottishRed said:

But that is simply not the point.

All players go through rough spells, ONE option is to drop them, with Marlon we actually can't because Korey is injured and Walsh is not up to it.

Where does the blame lie for the lack of options?

We have hardly been sparing on buying players in the last 3 years.

The HC / Manager of any team needs to have quality cover in all positions - in CM we simply don't have it.

There is also an argument that the situation is the same at CF.

Poor recruitment, lack of identity and lack of leaders explains an awful lot about the last two games.

Unforteantly mate, our budget simply does not allow for us to have "quality" replacements in all positions. And it really is as simple as that. The only way we can afford to compete is to buy young and develop, which arguably we've done well. 

The problem comes is when those players go from good to excellent, we sell them. 

That is not a managers problem

[ScottishRed]

1 minute ago, redsquirrel said:

I think my main fear is after a couple of awful performances,we could be heading for another winless record breaker.  ok,we might not but we all know it can happen rather quickly off the back of some decent form

I so hope you are wrong, but I do have my concerns.

Sunday is a game we need to get something from both in terms of points and performance.

Currently, I am not too confident.

[SStandUp]

24 minutes ago, RumRed said:

No I don’t in honesty.  That’s what happens but if we’d managed the playoffs who would have said they’d have left?  This is not a one season thing is it?

And using top end premiership players as a comparison against a one season wonder, a petulant mistake ridden show pony, and a no nonsense big bloke really doesn’t work.

"That's what happens"

In other words, I'm going to ignore that point and concentrate on ifs and buts to solidify my argument.

Bizarre. 

Even last year, we weren't good enough in terms of quality. Injuries didn't help, granted.

But how you fail to acknowledge that losing your better players means you'll struggle to progress is bemusing. 

I like our philosophy off the pitch. However, it's gunna be for slower progress that some probably like.  

[RumRed]

4 minutes ago, ForeverRes said:

Unforteantly mate, our budget simply does not allow for us to have "quality" replacements in all positions. And it really is as simple as that. The only way we can afford to compete is to buy young and develop, which arguably we've done well. 

The problem comes is when those players go from good to excellent, we sell them. 

That is not a managers problem

We’ve spent enough to have a decentish squad over the last few years, we haven’t.  Who’s fault is that?

[SStandUp]

4 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

I so hope you are wrong, but I do have my concerns.

Sunday is a game we need to get something from both in terms of points and performance.

Currently, I am not too confident.

NEED to get something? Are you listening to yourself? 

We are 11 games in, 9 points off relegation, 1 point from play offs!

By no means is it a MUST win! GET A GRIP

[054123]

8 hours ago, ForeverRes said:

Why after every loss do we go into an utterly embarrassing meltdown. We've played very poorly in 2 away games this year, granted. But in the other 9 we've been decent for large parts, and very good at times too.

We lost £24 million worth of quality in the summer and here we are 1 point off the play offs.

Im seeing things like Famara is our worst signing ever... a bloke who scored 13 goals last year after having 3 and a half months out injured! 

A lot of our fan base need to get a grip. There is absolutely no sense of perspective. When you consider everything about the club, what gives us the right to be anywhere near the play offs.

Wage bill, money spent, attendances, players are all average/ mid table for the championship... yet everyone expects so much more. Why? Because we beat a 2nd string Man United team in the tinpot cup? Grow up 

How funny, I didn’t get that impression at all this morning.

Just some debate following our obligatory poor performance.

[SStandUp]

2 minutes ago, RumRed said:

We’ve spent enough to have a decentish squad over the last few years, we haven’t.  Who’s fault is that?

And that's exactly what we have. A decent squad. Congratulations.

But so do a lot of teams. Whilst 4-5 teams have very good teams 

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, ForeverRes said:

NEED to get something? Are you listening to yourself? 

We are 11 games in, 9 points off relegation, 1 point from play offs!

By no means is it a MUST win! GET A GRIP

I'd say it's fairly important we get something and perform decent.

It will help with the confidence for a start, and after the international break it's Brentford away who we don't tend to have much joy against so yeah a win and a good display to help rebuild a bit of momentum would be good.

[RumRed]

2 minutes ago, ForeverRes said:

"That's what happens"

In other words, I'm going to ignore that point and concentrate on ifs and buts to solidify my argument.

Bizarre. 

Even last year, we weren't good enough in terms of quality. Injuries didn't help, granted.

But how you fail to acknowledge that losing your better players means you'll struggle to progress is bemusing. 

I like our philosophy off the pitch. However, it's gunna be for slower progress that some probably like.  

We are always going to be a selling club but you can’t possibly say that having those three players in our team would make a difference because it has been proved they didn’t when push comes to shove.

Brucey boy is proving that money doesn’t buy you this league.

I really don’t get your hang up on three average players being sold is the reason?

we made good money and move on.  Using it as an excuse is woefully short term thinking.

[exAtyeoMax]

12 minutes ago, ForeverRes said:

Do you really invisage it being that easy. 

From the outside, we can offer opinions and that's what keeps it interesting. But Johnson has a better understanding of football than us, he sees the boys everyday in training, if he thought Walsh was good enough he'd be playing 

No, but we are just discussing it on a forum, not proposing taking his job

[RumRed]

12 minutes ago, ForeverRes said:

And that's exactly what we have. A decent squad. Congratulations.

But so do a lot of teams. Whilst 4-5 teams have very good teams 

A large percentage of the players we’ve bought have had no, or limited, 1st team action.

I applaud the buying for the future model in some ways, but you seriously can’t say that Johnson has had his star players taken away and not been backed.

[Portland Bill]

I just want to see us play some football on the ground, not too much to ask surely. Shouldn’t that be the plan after signing a ball playing centre half. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

I just want to see us play some football on the ground, not too much to ask surely. Shouldn’t that be the plan after signing a ball playing centre half. 

Ball playing centre halves surely?

Would definitely class both Webster and Kalas as technically capable centre backs.

[SStandUp]

12 minutes ago, RumRed said:

A large percentage of the players we’ve bought have had no, or limited, 1st team action.

I applaud the buying for the future model in some ways, but you seriously can’t say that Johnson has had is star players taken away and not been backed.

I think this is a case of which side of the fence you sit on.

I like Johnson. I think he's moved the club forward and he backs the club vision because he cares about City. Not many other managers would.

Hes done a decent job. He's continued to move us forward. We fell short last year, but when you consider everything it wasn't entirely unexpected.

I think sometimes we can get hung up on what is happening at City. I think if you look at the championship as a whole, we aren't alone in terms of inconsistency, one minute looking class, the next really poor.

I want the very best for this club. I want us in the premier league. But we've set out a philosophy to get us there, which might take longer than splashing £40m cash, but is a much more low risk and dignified way of going about it.

Which I truly admire. But also have to accept we're not going to be world beaters every weekend for 46 games. But we'll get there. 

[RumRed]

18 minutes ago, ForeverRes said:

NEED to get something? Are you listening to yourself? 

We are 11 games in, 9 points off relegation, 1 point from play offs!

By no means is it a MUST win! GET A GRIP

They didn’t say it was a must win, it appears that it’s you losing your grasp on reality.  We need the points because recent history says if we have a non winning run we go into a tailspin.  9 points off relegation would be fine if we didn’t have the experience of last year to make us more circumspect.

[RumRed]

3 minutes ago, ForeverRes said:

I think this is a case of which side of the fence you sit on.

I like Johnson. I think he's moved the club forward and he backs the club vision because he cares about City. Not many other managers would.

Hes done a decent job. He's continued to move us forward. We fell short last year, but when you consider everything it wasn't entirely unexpected.

I think sometimes we can get hung up on what is happening at City. I think if you look at the championship as a whole, we aren't alone in terms of inconsistency, one minute looking class, the next really poor.

I want the very best for this club. I want us in the premier league. But we've set out a philosophy to get us there, which might take longer than splashing £40m cash, but is a much more low risk and dignified way of going about it.

Which I truly admire. But also have to accept we're not going to be world beaters every weekend for 46 games. But we'll get there. 

I agree.  Maybe I just want it quicker as I’m getting older.

[BS4 on Tour...]

42 minutes ago, ForeverRes said:

Unforteantly mate, our budget simply does not allow for us to have "quality" replacements in all positions. And it really is as simple as that....

LJ has spent over £40m buying players over the last three years....

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 hour ago, ForeverRes said:

Unforteantly mate, our budget simply does not allow for us to have "quality" replacements in all positions. And it really is as simple as that. The only way we can afford to compete is to buy young and develop, which arguably we've done well. 

The problem comes is when those players go from good to excellent, we sell them. 

That is not a managers problem

Might have been a better idea if that’s the case not to blow a large chunk of the budget on various widemen ( who don’t get utilised as widemen in the true sense )

18 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

LJ has spent over £40m buying players over the last three years....

Peanuts.   Innit

[Prinny]

2 hours ago, ForeverRes said:

Likewise we shouldn't be getting a draw against Villa? 

You're arguing a different argument. I'm just stating when you consider everything, we aren't going too badly. 

You are making two points.

a) The forum is a mess after we lose. Agreed.

b)Things are generally ok with the club. Agreed.

I am saying b) doesn't disqualify a) because of PERSPECTIVE and timeframes.

You are saying the existance of b) should disqualify a) because you invalidate the anger/upset/passion that causes a)

I am also pointing out the hypocrisy of staring at investment levels and saying everything is fine right after we DRAW with a team we invest much MORE than.

Feel free to disagree if you like. But those are the terms of the comment.

a) and b) are seperate arguments and discussion topics AGREED. That IS my point. But it wasn't yours in the OP.

 

[Davefevs]

10 hours ago, ForeverRes said:

Why after every loss do we go into an utterly embarrassing meltdown. We've played very poorly in 2 away games this year, granted. But in the other 9 we've been decent for large parts, and very good at times too.

We lost £24 million worth of quality in the summer and here we are 1 point off the play offs.

Im seeing things like Famara is our worst signing ever... a bloke who scored 13 goals last year after having 3 and a half months out injured! 

A lot of our fan base need to get a grip. There is absolutely no sense of perspective. When you consider everything about the club, what gives us the right to be anywhere near the play offs.

Wage bill, money spent, attendances, players are all average/ mid table for the championship... yet everyone expects so much more. Why? Because we beat a 2nd string Man United team in the tinpot cup? Grow up 

I don’t think we do.  The perspective was pretty good after a 4-2 defeat to West Brom....because the level of performance was good in the main.  Last night was a poor performance...and we got a point.  Grateful for the point, but surely it’s fine to be critical of the performance at the same time?

10 hours ago, Big C said:

and it wasn't even a loss. It was an away point against a team whose home record this season is P6 W 3 D 2 L 1

There are games we will win when we don’t deserve it, and losses where we deserve a point or even a win.  It was not an easy fixture....none are in the Champ, but I don’t care who you are playing against, it should not take until the 21st minute to register 4 or 5 completed passes in a move.

I’m perfectly happy to see us play more direct too, doesn’t have to be through the lines / thirds.  But if we are gonna play a bit longer to miss out Rotherham’s press, set up to play that way.  Look how Williams and Manning got around Smith when Rotherham missed out the midfield.  We didn’t do that, or even look like it was part if any plan when going longer to Famara, especially first half.  Rotherham didn’t play everything up to Smith and work it from there.  They played it around too, much easier than us.  That us what made me angry.  I can normally pick out positives, in fact I did...our defence defended as if it mattered in most cases, but the front 6 - Brownhill excepted were poor, with one or two hiding.  Even LJ said the same.  That is not us posters having a meltdown as the OP puts it, but recognising (just like the Head Coach) that it wasn’t anywhere near a good enough performance.

Of course there are extreme critics and extreme happy-clappers on either side of the fence, most posters are in between.  Last night was a reaction to the performance, not the result.

[BS4 on Tour...]

24 minutes ago, Prinny said:

You are making two points.

a) The forum is a mess after we lose. Agreed.

b)Things are generally ok with the club. Agreed.

I am saying b) doesn't disqualify a) because of PERSPECTIVE and timeframes.

You are saying the existance of b) should disqualify a) because you invalidate the anger/upset/passion that causes a)

I am also pointing out the hypocrisy of staring at investment levels and saying everything is fine right after we DRAW with a team we invest much MORE than.

Feel free to disagree if you like. But those are the terms of the comment.

a) and b) are seperate arguments and discussion topics AGREED. That IS my point. But it wasn't yours in the OP.

Decent post Chief...but I think the OP @ForeverRes‘ credibility disappeared way back up this thread - he or she started off by asking why this forum goes into meltdown after ‘every loss’ - yet we drew 0-0 at Rotherham - not a defeat in my mind. He or she also ignored the significant positivity on here after the defeat at WBA. No meltdown there.

Yet the WBA feedback was not acknowledged by the OP and that was a genuine defeat - unlike the imaginary one the OP seemed to have dreamt up vs Rotherham...then the OP talked about unrealistic expectations because we beat a ‘second string’ Man Utd team last season....second string my arse...and the OP also declared back then that we ‘would be so frail against Man Utd without Leko and Woodrow’ - more utter nonsense cos we seemed to do ok without those two against Man Utd, then he or she claimed that our budget isn’t sufficient to replace key players...yet LJ has spent over £40m on players over the last three years...then the OP said we can’t progress having sold Flint, Bryan and Reid - yet we progressed in the season when we sold Kodjia, Ayling, Freeman and Williams...so, lots of utter nonsense on this thread from the OP - from post one onwards!

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Decent post Chief...but I think the OP @ForeverRes‘ credibility disappeared way back up this thread - he or she started off by asking why this forum goes into meltdown after ‘every loss’ - yet we drew 0-0 at Rotherham - not a defeat in my mind. He or she also ignored the significant positivity on here after the defeat at WBA. No meltdown there.

Yet the WBA feedback was not acknowledged by the OP and that was a genuine defeat - unlike the imaginary one the OP seemed to have dreamt up vs Rotherham...then the OP talked about unrealistic expectations because we beat a ‘second string’ Man Utd team last season....second string my arse...and the OP also declared back then that we ‘would be so frail against Man Utd without Leko and Woodrow’ - more utter nonsense cos we seemed to do ok without those two against Man Utd, then he or she claimed that our budget isn’t sufficient to replace key players...yet LJ has spent over £40m on players over the last three years...then the OP said we can’t progress having sold Flint, Bryan and Reid - yet we progressed in the season when we sold Kodjia, Ayling, Freeman and Williams...so, lots of utter nonsense on this thread from the OP - from post one onwards!

Brilliant 

[Fiale]

4 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Decent post Chief...but I think the OP @ForeverRes‘ credibility disappeared way back up this thread - he or she started off by asking why this forum goes into meltdown after ‘every loss’ - yet we drew 0-0 at Rotherham - not a defeat in my mind. He or she also ignored the significant positivity on here after the defeat at WBA. No meltdown there.

Yet the WBA feedback was not acknowledged by the OP and that was a genuine defeat - unlike the imaginary one the OP seemed to have dreamt up vs Rotherham...then the OP talked about unrealistic expectations because we beat a ‘second string’ Man Utd team last season....second string my arse...and the OP also declared back then that we ‘would be so frail against Man Utd without Leko and Woodrow’ - more utter nonsense cos we seemed to do ok without those two against Man Utd, then he or she claimed that our budget isn’t sufficient to replace key players...yet LJ has spent over £40m on players over the last three years...then the OP said we can’t progress having sold Flint, Bryan and Reid - yet we progressed in the season when we sold Kodjia, Ayling, Freeman and Williams...so, lots of utter nonsense on this thread from the OP - from post one onwards!

 

 

And still managed over 60 thanks/likes - seems OTIB is like a seesaw....  personally try to just enjoy a game at a time currently, I think I'm just jaded atm by the whole thing.

[SStandUp]

9 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Decent post Chief...but I think the OP @ForeverRes‘ credibility disappeared way back up this thread - he or she started off by asking why this forum goes into meltdown after ‘every loss’ - yet we drew 0-0 at Rotherham - not a defeat in my mind. He or she also ignored the significant positivity on here after the defeat at WBA. No meltdown there.

Yet the WBA feedback was not acknowledged by the OP and that was a genuine defeat - unlike the imaginary one the OP seemed to have dreamt up vs Rotherham...then the OP talked about unrealistic expectations because we beat a ‘second string’ Man Utd team last season....second string my arse...and the OP also declared back then that we ‘would be so frail against Man Utd without Leko and Woodrow’ - more utter nonsense cos we seemed to do ok without those two against Man Utd, then he or she claimed that our budget isn’t sufficient to replace key players...yet LJ has spent over £40m on players over the last three years...then the OP said we can’t progress having sold Flint, Bryan and Reid - yet we progressed in the season when we sold Kodjia, Ayling, Freeman and Williams...so, lots of utter nonsense on this thread from the OP - from post one onwards!

At no point did I reference Woodrow / Leto 

.....

I'm not saying we can't progress. But I don't think we SHOULD EXPECT to progress. When we sold Kodjia we had Tammy (replaced), when we sold Ayling we bought in Pisano (who started very well before injury, replaced), we sold Freeman we had Brownhill/ O'dowda who filled that void (replaced).

Now, i like the look of webster, he's started well. I like the look of Kelly. But they aren't Flint or Bryan just yet. And when it comes to Bobby Reid, he simply hasn't been replaced. 

I can acknowledge the poor performances. And I can acknowledge the response to the WBA game. 

But my main point was, and perhaps I went off topic slightly, was that we sometimes lose a sense of perspective. Unfortunately with this squad we are going to get indifferent performances. You look at our starting 11 Wednesday, it's still a reasonably new group. We set ourselves very high standards in terms of the football we played last year, and at times we have shown that but similarly at times we haven't. It's a team in transition, it's a team that will only get better. 

I just don't think, considering the position we are in, we need to berate the team or management after every poor result / performance - it's funny how everyone is concentrating on the terrible first half, rather than the second, where we looked like the only team that was going to win it. Johnson actually changing personnel and formation which transformed the game, but let's ignore all that. It doesn't fit the agenda. 

Theres quite clearly a divide with Johnson, it frustrates me when I see people revel in our failures to have a pop at the bloke. When all things considered he's doing a decent job. 

[Redrascal2]

21 hours ago, ForeverRes said:

Why after every loss do we go into an utterly embarrassing meltdown. We've played very poorly in 2 away games this year, granted. But in the other 9 we've been decent for large parts, and very good at times too.

We lost £24 million worth of quality in the summer and here we are 1 point off the play offs.

Im seeing things like Famara is our worst signing ever... a bloke who scored 13 goals last year after having 3 and a half months out injured! 

A lot of our fan base need to get a grip. There is absolutely no sense of perspective. When you consider everything about the club, what gives us the right to be anywhere near the play offs.

Wage bill, money spent, attendances, players are all average/ mid table for the championship... yet everyone expects so much more. Why? Because we beat a 2nd string Man United team in the tinpot cup? Grow up 

Agree with the post but for me it is the lack of consistency that really gets on my nerves. Under Johnson whenever you are lulled  in to thinking we are progressing you get a Wigan performance.