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Women a security risk? Sexism at the gate?


AshtonPark

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10 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Ticket checks because supply likely was outstripped by demand. It's been highlighted and discussed on here before.

Patting down of SS Singers? That'll be because last season we had a bit of a rep for pyros and pyros tended to come from that area. It's not unknown at other grounds etc.

Correct I think. One of the lads who comes up with us and has a ST in our block regularly tries to blag his way into the SS. Sometimes he makes it, sometimes he doesn`t.

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As already said it’s all very half arsed and not very serious. God forbid something actually happened as I’m sure any investigation would find the preventative measures wholly incompetent. 

Either do away with it completely or make the current process for purpose. Shouting at every 5th spotty teenager to unzip his jacket isn’t going to stop a terrorist attack, if that indeed is even the purpose of these ‘checks’. 

At the south stand all you have to do is walk ten yards to the right to bypass any check, and I’ve never once been searched or asked to do anything at the turnstile. 

Wholly useless exercise in its current form. 

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53 minutes ago, sglosbcfc said:

In the year 2018 it is ridiculous that men can't search women and women can't search men. When you consider we have out there homosexuals, bisexuals, transgenders, people who don't identify etc. I mean I am trisexual, I'll try anything sexual.

If anything it is worse in this day with opposite sexes "touching" each other - it will be a crime to look at someone from the opposite sex soon!

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1 hour ago, sglosbcfc said:

In the year 2018 it is ridiculous that men can't search women and women can't search men. When you consider we have out there homosexuals, bisexuals, transgenders, people who don't identify etc. I mean I am trisexual, I'll try anything sexual.

That’s a good point really, if a male cant search a female due to sexual harassment (of course unlikely), what’s stopping a homosexual male or female searching the same sex?

Again surely double standards?  

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3 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

That’s a good point really, if a male cant search a female due to sexual harassment (of course unlikely), what’s stopping a homosexual male or female searching the same sex?

Again surely double standards?  

Luckily I identify as a goat and so I’ve never had that issue. 

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15 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Luckily I identify as a goat and so I’ve never had that issue. 

This poem springs to mind 

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
     Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
     Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
     Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

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2 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

As already said it’s all very half arsed and not very serious. God forbid something actually happened as I’m sure any investigation would find the preventative measures wholly incompetent. 

Either do away with it completely or make the current process for purpose. Shouting at every 5th spotty teenager to unzip his jacket isn’t going to stop a terrorist attack, if that indeed is even the purpose of these ‘checks’. 

At the south stand all you have to do is walk ten yards to the right to bypass any check, and I’ve never once been searched or asked to do anything at the turnstile. 

Wholly useless exercise in its current form. 

That's a ridiculous flaw though- surely the stewards are posted directly on the entrance as in you have to pass them and have some sort of search to enter?

If they aren't, they probably should be!

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That's a ridiculous flaw though- surely the stewards are posted directly on the entrance as in you have to pass them and have some sort of search to enter?

If they aren't, they probably should be!

The stewards stand near the statue on the main pathway. But there is nothing stopping you walking through the car park to reach the turnstiles. The stewards never question you or ask you to be searched etc 

We do this because the design of the stadium surround is so poor that you have to fight through 2,000 people, with no dedicated walkway, so it takes about 30 seconds instead of 5 minutes to reach the turnstiles!

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11 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

The stewards stand near the statue on the main pathway. But there is nothing stopping you walking through the car park to reach the turnstiles. The stewards never question you or ask you to be searched etc 

We do this because the design of the stadium surround is so poor that you have to fight through 2,000 people, with no dedicated walkway, so it takes about 30 seconds instead of 5 minutes to reach the turnstiles!

Seems an unusual arrangement- what with the gender thing too, there are ways to do searching etc properly but this clearly isn't it!

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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Seems an unusual arrangement- what with the gender thing too, there are ways to do searching etc properly but this clearly isn't it!

That’s what I mean, the whole thing is just half arsed. It’s like someone’s told them they have to make a token effort to get a tick in the box but it serves no purpose whatsoever. What exactly do you hope to achieve by asking someone to open their jacket and that being the extent of the security measure? 

I think even the most dim witted terrorist wouldn’t take long to realise that they they’ll be fine if they put their nefarious contraband elsewhere.... 

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16 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

That’s what I mean, the whole thing is just half arsed. It’s like someone’s told them they have to make a token effort to get a tick in the box but it serves no purpose whatsoever. What exactly do you hope to achieve by asking someone to open their jacket and that being the extent of the security measure? 

I think even the most dim witted terrorist wouldn’t take long to realise that they they’ll be fine if they put their nefarious contraband elsewhere.... 

Dolman Entrance at the Atyeo end is more rigorous than that tbh- that said what is the point in it being more rigorous there if it is potentially lax elsewhere?

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31 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

The stewards stand near the statue on the main pathway. But there is nothing stopping you walking through the car park to reach the turnstiles. The stewards never question you or ask you to be searched etc 

We do this because the design of the stadium surround is so poor that you have to fight through 2,000 people, with no dedicated walkway, so it takes about 30 seconds instead of 5 minutes to reach the turnstiles!

The reason for that could be that from the car park exit across to the Raynes Road gate is a Public Footbath.

I go to the South Stand through the car park exit and never get stopped or searched. My seat is in the Lansdown Stand, but going in this way is much quicker and less hassle.

 

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If you want to do it correctly- and this may not be too popular with the fans, but this is how you do it.

Again questions of proportionality, necessity etc may arise but they're separate to this the basic method.

  • You get 10 stewards- maybe 6 male, 4 female or a  50/50 split at the turnstiles of each stand or further in front depending on where you think is best.
  • You have barriers, like you do for concerts, like we did for the World Cup Fan village.
  • Every fan gets a pat-down, as well as open coats and bag checks- no exceptions.
  • For Adult males they go in the line with a male steward. Females and kids I guess go to the line with female stewards though it's possible that the kids bit may or may not be legal- this post is on the assumption that it's theoretically legal to search kids.

It would take time to get in, but that's how you do it properly- and you do the same at all entrances.

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17 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

If you want to do it correctly- and this may not be too popular with the fans, but this is how you do it.

Again questions of proportionality, necessity etc may arise but they're separate to this the basic method.

  • You get 10 stewards- maybe 6 male, 4 female or a  50/50 split at the turnstiles of each stand or further in front depending on where you think is best.
  • You have barriers, like you do for concerts, like we did for the World Cup Fan village.
  • Every fan gets a pat-down, as well as open coats and bag checks- no exceptions.
  • For Adult males they go in the line with a male steward. Females and kids I guess go to the line with female stewards though it's possible that the kids bit may or may not be legal- this post is on the assumption that it's theoretically legal to search kids.

It would take time to get in, but that's how you do it properly- and you do the same at all entrances.

It's quite easy to place stuff inside the stadium perimeter the night before and pick up on the day once you've been checked at entry points.

No system is foolproof 

 

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2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Whole ground is covered by CCTV, isn't it?

However yes, no system is foolproof.

It probably is, but it won't be manned 24/7

 

Also, it's worth remembering that the Manchester atrocity happened when people were leaving the venue.

How do you combat that?

 

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7 minutes ago, RedLionLad said:

It probably is, but it won't be manned 24/7

 

Also, it's worth remembering that the Manchester atrocity happened when people were leaving the venue.

How do you combat that?

 

I think the security measures are about minimising the risk personally- were Security staff posted outside the arena while the concert was ongoing?

Still unsure ultimately how you fully combat someone who is determined enough though, willing to take their own life in the process- in the case of the Manchester atrocity. If we have any security experts who post on here they may have some ideas, but intelligence agencies I guess- by the time you reach the stage where they can detonate or similar, it's too late surely?

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Hi @AshtonPark @Bristol Rob

I responded to the OP on the 11th October where I said the following after speaking to the stadium security team; 

 I have been told that  security searches are random and therefore ,until the threat level rises, the stadium security team will maintain selective and random searching.

The feedback I passed on was the comment from @EmersonsKev regards his route into the stadium. 

Matt 

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I understand that Matt but I replied saying it isn’t random. Either the security team are lying saying it is, or the stewards arnt briefed properly.

Dont worry I won’t chase this anymore, it will just be another one of those issues that gets ignored with no logic behind it. 

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On 08/10/2018 at 13:00, JBFC II said:

Went to red bull salzburg in the summer and had a similar experience. 

Having a massive guy barking at me in German was something I'll never forget! 

A dog impersonator??

Its funny I'll grant you but I'm not sure there's a living in it.........................

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35 minutes ago, Robert the bruce said:

A dog impersonator??

Its funny I'll grant you but I'm not sure there's a living in it.........................

To be honest, if he had been impersonating a dog I may have understood him better. 

Or he realised I was from Bristol and had heard all about a certain Bristol Rovers manager... 

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On 17/10/2018 at 13:40, Mr Popodopolous said:

Whole ground is covered by CCTV, isn't it?

However yes, no system is foolproof.

Why bother with the ground itself?

Pack whatever 'explosives' you want in to a rucksack and just take a bus to the ground: no checks and a lot of people in a confined space. Get off the bus early and job done, right outside the ground and panic everywhere.

Seriously, any security checks outside Ashton Gate or any similar stadium is just for show and to provide cosmetic reassurance.  

 

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16 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Why bother with the ground itself?

Pack whatever 'explosives' you want in to a rucksack and just take a bus to the ground: no checks and a lot of people in a confined space. Get off the bus early and job done, right outside the ground and panic everywhere.

Seriously, any security checks outside Ashton Gate or any similar stadium is just for show and to provide cosmetic reassurance.  

 

Well tbh, the searches are obviously also  to stop 'contraband' getting in- i.e. alcohol, cans (of alcoholic or non alcoholic drink), glass bottles, pyros- the usual array of items.

Could definitely be tightened up though, that is if the club feel the need.

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10 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Interesting trends elsewhere- I don't believe we have one, do we?

Either for policing or stewarding- and that's not to knock the work that @JulieH or @Matt Parsons BCFCSLO do but this seems like something more specific and a bit further along the line.

I am aware of the iags that are run by a few police services and fans groups. I have asked many questions of the football officers involved in these and there are undoubtedly benefits to them.

we tend to do almost similar to these groups anyway through this medium and the monthly fans meeting. I am always open to fan discussion and engagement so if there is a desire to do so I am sure I can find out more details. 

I see no reason why the safety officer and steward representative couldn’t be involved on the group but it is entirely up to whether fans wish for it to happen

i can put it on the next sc and t agenda if that helps? 

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Not sure if the OP is really that concerned about this or not but seriously people must live pretty shit lives if this sort of thing bothers them, it’s a reason why this world, and country especially is such a shite place to live at present, some people will just kick up a fuss over the most ridiculous things :facepalm:

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