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Why blame the manager


bs22 red

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was filled with anger upon seeing those goals go in due to bad errors and I am disappointed now, but let's be honest. The table is accurate, we are where this particular set of players and manager should be...mid-table. I'm making no comment on the wisdom of the prudent approach to our finances but this is what the money we have spent should be expected to achieve.

Now we could have...In fact should have, been 6th, perhaps 5th tonight but this team is not 5th or 6th best in the league.

The approach to finances is the approach that Lansdown is taking, I may not personally think it can work in this day and age but I accept it as his decision. It does however make for incredibly frustrating times. Gone are the days where a slow building of a squad can be achieved - we've already seen players lost in the Summer and I wouldn't blame either club or Kelly if he went THIS Summer for big money.

Instead, we have to hope that a coach can make magic happen with the players he is able to procure, in the hope that we can go up before the best of them are poached. It's all terribly frustrating.

 

The team today started off so brightly, I enjoyed what I saw; yet, we struggle to score, look dreadfully lacking in midfield and then pow...Drearful errors put the game out of reach and make us rue misses.

 

I'll continue going to the Gate as always. It's the club I love and I have many friends that I look forward to seeing. The worry I have though is that in this day and age, with the way the game is today,  that we just won't be able to progress wirh this approach to finances and this coach. I like Johnson and am yet to decide whether he's a great coach hamstrung by finances or in fact lacking in certain qualities. It may be that this man could take us up with more money and that another man could take us up with the same money.

 

Which path do we take?

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15 minutes ago, Dylan said:

Need another, maybe two CM as Smith is out and a striker.

Weimann started very well but now I feel we could have done more in the summer.

I've said before but could get someone like Gabbiy agbonlohore on a free , he's still only 31

Stone?

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22 minutes ago, Dylan said:

Agreed they are all proven in this league.

but I still like LJ for some reason. He seems a real balanced bloke, but whether he will take us to the next level I'm not sure.

Need to splash some cash in january

Yeah. I like LJ but inconsistency, ever changing starting lineups, bizarre formations and quite simply a lack of gonads on the pitch is enough for me. These are his players, his selection, his formation. I appreciate he lost very good players over the summer but we had a catastrophic lack of form last season and the one before. Maybe it’s just me but I find his brand of football dull beyond belief. If the club want to operate within tight budgetary constraints and be successful then they’ll need to turn over every rock home and abroad to find a coach who has that something special to extract every bit from every player. The occasional back to back wins won’t cut it for me. The jury is no longer out. I’m not seeing LJ as the man to realise SL legacy. I’d be incredibly surprised if Ashton, JL do not have a shortlist of targets. I’ve nothing personal with LJ and I liked him as a player but this treading water and bumbling around has to stop.

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Why blame the manager?

 Because the buck stops with him. He put together a brand new team, as I posted earlier. A risky thing to do but it was forced upon him. We began pretty well. he changed Weimann back into the striker he always was. A goal a game in the first few games, Diedhiou came back and since then, pretty much disaster. This has to be tactics and poor management of the front line. Johnson, sort it out or go away.

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1 minute ago, Dylan said:

Yeah I did think he might be a bit heavy if he's not been training haha. 

Just thought I would put it out there as he was a good player and still youngish.

 

I know what you mean. A real goalscorer is sadly, sadly lacking at BCFC and the Championship is brutal

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48 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

What chances? I remember the Fammy sitter that he bungled and Lloyd hitting the post....any others?

Take those and its 2-0 at half time.

We controlled the first half and should have been in front. They were never going to be as bad in the second and they weren't. But how is it the managers fault when a defender falls over/is tripped on the edge of the box leaving their striker 1 on 1 with the keeper. That got their tails up for 5 mins and our heads dropped. The second was a killer but even then O'Dowda missed a sitter and so did Paterson.

LJ was positive in his changes and it almost worked.

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1 minute ago, CHIPLEY RED said:

Take those and its 2-0 at half time.

We controlled the first half and should have been in front. They were never going to be as bad in the second and they weren't. But how is it the managers fault when a defender falls over/is tripped on the edge of the box leaving their striker 1 on 1 with the keeper. That got their tails up for 5 mins and our heads dropped. The second was a killer but even then O'Dowda missed a sitter and so did Paterson.

LJ was positive in his changes and it almost worked.

Almost doesn't count

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1 minute ago, Dylan said:

Could we get Bobby back in January haha.

Not sure he would have carried his form on into this season. 

I can't see where are goals are going to come from.

Interesting. Clearly been an odd signing for Cardiff. Would you give them most or even all the money back in January for him?

 

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2 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

Interesting. Clearly been an odd signing for Cardiff. Would you give them most or even all the money back in January for him?

 

I reckon we got the better deal by far as he could be a one season wonder. Or maybe he's another Dwight Gayle  can't quite cut it in the premier but tears the championship apart

Cardiff are a bad fit though for him imo

 

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1 minute ago, Dylan said:

I reckon we got the better deal by far as he could be a one season wonder. Or maybe he's another Dwight Gayle  can't quite cut it in the premier but tears the championship apart

Cardiff are a bad fit though for him imo

 

Just tells you everything about footballers and money. i'm sure he's happy as Larry

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2 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

LJ has spent over £40m on players in the last three years....

What’s his net spend?

How much was the squad worth when he started? (hint: he inherited a threadbare squad full of loans)

How much is the squad worth now?

How does all of the above compare to our rivals?

All of the above need answering before you can draw conclusions on whether he should be doing better than he is given the money spent.

To put it another way; if you start with a squad worth £10m and spend £40m over three years, you still wouldn’t expect that squad to do better than one worth £100m to start with, who then haven’t spent a bean over the same three year period.

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3 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

What’s his net spend?

How much was the squad worth when he started? (hint: he inherited a threadbare squad full of loans)

How much is the squad worth now?

How does all of the above compare to our rivals?

All of the above need answering before you can draw conclusions on whether he should be doing better than he is given the money spent.

To put it another way; if you start with a squad worth £10m and spend £40m over three years, you still wouldn’t expect that squad to do better than one worth £100m to start with, who then haven’t spent a bean over the same three year period.

Too much analysis - I was simply replying to a post that said we haven’t had the budget to buy players like Gayle...because we have...

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3 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

What’s his net spend?

How much was the squad worth when he started? (hint: he inherited a threadbare squad full of loans)

How much is the squad worth now?

How does all of the above compare to our rivals?

All of the above need answering before you can draw conclusions on whether he should be doing better than he is given the money spent.

To put it another way; if you start with a squad worth £10m and spend £40m over three years, you still wouldn’t expect that squad to do better than one worth £100m to start with, who then haven’t spent a bean over the same three year period.

I’ll help out here

It’s been done many times

Just one example

Brentford

Sold their best players for last god knows how many years

Theyve made over £20 million over last 3 seasons and continue to improve  and will do the same again next season if they don’t get promoted first

 

btw We are running out of saleable assets 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I’ll help out here

It’s been done many times

Just one example

Brentford

Sold their best players for last god knows how many years

Theyve made over £20 million over last 3 seasons and continue to improve  and will do the same again next season if they don’t get promoted first

 

btw We are running out of saleable assets 

 

 

As you say, Brentford are just one example. And they've done exceptionally well. But that doesn't answer my question. I'd still like to see where we sit in a league table of net spend and overall squad valuation to determine whether LJ's performance is below par, above par or just par.

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25 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Too much analysis - I was simply replying to a post that said we haven’t had the budget to buy players like Gayle...because we have...

Transfer fee - yes.

Wages - dubious.

And that’s before you consider the issue of whether a player of Gayle’s quality was ever going to sign for a side of our standing in the game, with no recent history of success.

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3 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

As you say, Brentford are just one example. And they've done exceptionally well. But that doesn't answer my question. I'd still like to see where we sit in a league table of net spend and overall squad valuation to determine whether LJ's performance is below par, above par or just par.

Too many variables IMHO (And what values you put on them)

 

Think it’s one you have to look around at various other Clubs and decide yourself just how well LJ has done with the time and backing he has received and what you would expect of an aver age manager, a good one , etc etc

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3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Too many variables IMHO (And what values you put on them)

 

Think it’s one you have to look around at various other Clubs and decide yourself just how well LJ has done with the time and backing he has received and what you would expect of an aver age manager, a good one , etc etc

My instinct is our budget is about average and he has gradually improved the league position to mid table so he’s probably about par.

Dean Saunders would probably have done considerably worse.

Pep Guardiola would probably have done considerably better.

To be clear though - I have strong reservations and I’m getting fed up with the inconsistency. Wouldn’t mind seeing how Mick McCarthy would do with this lot.

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8 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Transfer fee - yes.

Wages - dubious.

And that’s before you consider the issue of whether a player of Gayle’s quality was ever going to sign for a side of our standing in the game, with no recent history of success.

Yep, the ‘no recent history of success’ is a good point, we allegedly offered Andre Gray more ‘salary’ than Burnley but he went to them as he felt they were more likely to get into the premier league - he made a good choice....

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6 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

My instinct is our budget is about average and he has gradually improved the league position to mid table so he’s probably about par.

Dean Saunders would probably have done considerably worse.

Pep Guardiola would probably have done considerably better.

To be clear though - I have strong reservations and I’m getting fed up with the inconsistency. Wouldn’t mind seeing how Mick McCarthy would do with this lot.

I’ve posted about how Liverpool recruited their latest manager Mr Klopp, on a different thread and the depth of the process / research (And How the recruitment was revamped)

If I was to embark on the project that SL has and spent £50 million on the stadium alone etc  I would have wanted the very best coach I could find to follow and steer my plan sit in the most important seat in the football Club

He appointed Lee Johnson

Just because somebody will not rock the boat they are not the best candidate 

 

For a simple example - Look at Chris Wilders CV and managerial record and development and look at Lee Johnsons

 

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1 minute ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Yep, the ‘no recent history of success’ is a good point, we allegedly offered Andre Gray more ‘salary’ than Burnley but he went to them as he felt they were more likely to get into the premier league - he made a good choice....

He did indeed.

We are not a big name in the game. That does limit who we can realistically sign. But, that said, we were top two in January and had just beaten United - that should have given us the platform we needed to sign better players than we are normally capable of.....instead, we signed Lois Diony.

3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I’ve posted about how Liverpool recruited their latest manager Mr Klopp, on a different thread and the depth of the process / research (And How the recruitment was revamped)

If I was to embark on the project that SL has and spent £50 million on the stadium alone etc  I would have wanted the very best coach I could find to follow and steer my plan sit in the most important seat in the football Club

He appointed Lee Johnson

Just because somebody will not rock the boat they are not the best candidate 

 

For a simple example - Look at Chris Wilders CV and managerial record and development and look at Lee Johnsons

 

I don’t disagree Bob.

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