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longyears

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5 hours ago, longyears said:

We all know really be we happy clappers or complainers that LJ should be long gone and at ANY other club would be. He has never achieved anything or won anything wherever he has managed and has nothing to recommend him - he is a football manager novice who does nor have a clue what he is doing. We also know that for reasons beyond our understanding SL thinks he is God and will not fire him. The choice is simple - accept that he will eventually get us relegated because of his continual incompetence and support with your feet and money or give up going. There is absolutely nothing anyone on this board can say or quote which indicates he will bring us success - I am sure he is a decent man but he is the pits in every sense as a football manager - sad but a truism I fear.

Have not posted in yonkers but have been watching every week.  I do feel compelled to say something now.  People need to see that this is a puppet manager and always has been.  Has pretty huge resources available but no real man management mettle in the personality to make any of it count.  This is sadly an accountant run club both on and off the pitch 

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21 minutes ago, paulcityfan said:

Have not posted in yonkers but have been watching every week.  I do feel compelled to say something now.  People need to see that this is a puppet manager and always has been.  Has pretty huge resources available but no real man management mettle in the personality to make any of it count.  This is sadly an accountant run club both on and off the pitch 

Nowhere near the biggest wage bill - or even halfway up that table. I'm not getting into the 'should Johnson go' argument, but I do feel I have to point out that our resources are not huge by 2018 Championship standards.

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5 hours ago, longyears said:

We all know really be we happy clappers or complainers that LJ should be long gone and at ANY other club would be. He has never achieved anything or won anything wherever he has managed and has nothing to recommend him - he is a football manager novice who does nor have a clue what he is doing. We also know that for reasons beyond our understanding SL thinks he is God and will not fire him. The choice is simple - accept that he will eventually get us relegated because of his continual incompetence and support with your feet and money or give up going. There is absolutely nothing anyone on this board can say or quote which indicates he will bring us success - I am sure he is a decent man but he is the pits in every sense as a football manager - sad but a truism I fear.

Do you really think we deserve anything more than mid table?

When you consider, transfer policies, current players, budgets, wage bills etc. Everything screams mid table (at the moment). So why do fans expect so much more? 

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35 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Nowhere near the biggest wage bill - or even halfway up that table. I'm not getting into the 'should Johnson go' argument, but I do feel I have to point out that our resources are not huge by 2018 Championship standards.

Nor sure about that RR

I think you may be surprised 

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We are at a stage now where we need a bit of stability to grow as a club. A long term manager and stable finances are both good for us now despite the fact we may want more after flirting with the top 2 last year. From what i've seen over the games i've managed to see over the past through years, we play beautiful football when it goes well but that we get stuck when things don't work out. I'm not sure if the lack of impact subs have on the game at times is due to Johnson or the players we have at our disposal when formations need changing and the variety of positions and player types we have at our disposal.

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We are exactly where SL and JL want us to be - in the Championship.

We can't go up as the carrot for a new buyer is the Prem, and we can't go down as that takes the carrot away.

 

SL will do what he has to do to keep us in the Champ in the Jan window - or as last year if by some fluke we are challenging at the top - as little.

 

Nice new Arena, and first lot of houses going up.

 

Must be at about stage 3 of the exit plan. Bristol Sport will keep BCFC in the Champ until the whole shebang is sold. 

 

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21 hours ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

It's complete nonsense to say the club have zero ambition - just look up at the stadium next time we ship a soft goal.

The reality is we can't afford stellar signings (see Wolves last year) and Boro, Villa, Forest etc this year.

When you are looking up also look around - we would never fill the stadium unless we reach the Premier League and it's not big enough to generate the income for the signings I suspect you think show ambition.

That said look at Villa with all their stellar signings - below us in the table.

Why do we keep citing the stadium as total proof of the club’s ambition. ? That stadium isn’t ours anymore ! We are essentially tenants to Bristol Sport sharing the ground with a PREMIERSHIP rugby club. MK Dons, Sunderland, Doncaster Rovers,  Coventry and to a lesser degree Notts County all have cracking stadiums but have absolutely no chance of progression anytime soon.  i agree that questioning SL’s ambition is a matter of opinion but the stadium certainly cant stand alone as a reason to believe that he really holds Premier League ambitions for BCFC. 

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On 07/10/2018 at 16:50, Fiale said:

You may as well get behind him as he is going nowhere, we are his apprenticeship and we just have to hope that he finds a way to become a master craftsman before going onto better things.

I've said it before,this is about his 6th or 7th season as a manager it's about time the apprenticeship tag was dropped.we don't look any better than when he first took over and we are nowhere near the form we were hitting this time last season which is worrying

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18 hours ago, SX227 said:

We are exactly where SL and JL want us to be - in the Championship.

We can't go up as the carrot for a new buyer is the Prem, and we can't go down as that takes the carrot away.

 

SL will do what he has to do to keep us in the Champ in the Jan window - or as last year if by some fluke we are challenging at the top - as little.

 

Nice new Arena, and first lot of houses going up.

 

Must be at about stage 3 of the exit plan. Bristol Sport will keep BCFC in the Champ until the whole shebang is sold. 

 

Brighton had nothing now a new stadium a DECENT MANAGER and now look at them, left us for dead; reason= manager.

We should be at least equalling them Steve? ask yourself why aren't we ? no more Bristol Cosy Football Club lets frigging do something. :dunno:

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46 minutes ago, Baldyman said:

Why do we keep citing the stadium as total proof of the club’s ambition. ? That stadium isn’t ours anymore ! We are essentially tenants to Bristol Sport sharing the ground with a PREMIERSHIP rugby club. MK Dons, Sunderland, Doncaster Rovers,  Coventry and to a lesser degree Notts County all have cracking stadiums but have absolutely no chance of progression anytime soon.  i agree that questioning SL’s ambition is a matter of opinion but the stadium certainly cant stand alone as a reason to believe that he really holds Premier League ambitions for BCFC. 

We keep citing it [the stadium] because together with the new training ground, it shows ambition to create a best in class infrastructure that should attract better players and improve performances.

Bristol Sport is a holding company for financial purposes - the stadium is ours and is used by others.

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21 hours ago, ForeverRes said:

Do you really think we deserve anything more than mid table?

When you consider, transfer policies, current players, budgets, wage bills etc. Everything screams mid table (at the moment). So why do fans expect so much more? 

When you look at the current bottom 3 Hull, Ipswich and Preston, which if any are we likely to be finishing above/getting better results than. 

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On 07/10/2018 at 16:36, longyears said:

We all know really be we happy clappers or complainers that LJ should be long gone and at ANY other club would be. He has never achieved anything or won anything wherever he has managed and has nothing to recommend him - he is a football manager novice who does nor have a clue what he is doing. We also know that for reasons beyond our understanding SL thinks he is God and will not fire him. The choice is simple - accept that he will eventually get us relegated because of his continual incompetence and support with your feet and money or give up going. There is absolutely nothing anyone on this board can say or quote which indicates he will bring us success - I am sure he is a decent man but he is the pits in every sense as a football manager - sad but a truism I fear.

Is he the pits in the sense of being lots of deep holes??

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Everyone needs to give up on the sack him/keep him conversation... Its getting extremely tedious... We all no who's in the for/against, its an argument that won't be won... I have enough petty arguments with the Mrs.. I come on here for a bit of banter.. Not to be called a bellend for stating my opinion. We've all got them... Let's just see what happens eh? 

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On 07/10/2018 at 16:36, longyears said:

We all know really be we happy clappers or complainers that LJ should be long gone and at ANY other club would be. He has never achieved anything or won anything wherever he has managed and has nothing to recommend him - he is a football manager novice who does nor have a clue what he is doing. We also know that for reasons beyond our understanding SL thinks he is God and will not fire him. The choice is simple - accept that he will eventually get us relegated because of his continual incompetence and support with your feet and money or give up going. There is absolutely nothing anyone on this board can say or quote which indicates he will bring us success - I am sure he is a decent man but he is the pits in every sense as a football manager - sad but a truism I fear.

So much absolute rubbish here. No balance whatsover. Why exactly is it the case that “LJ should be long gone?”

The cold, hard facts say that LJ staved off relegation in his first season here, and the team has finished in a higher league position each year he has been here. Only once has his position been seriously under threat - when we were struggling in 16/17. Yet it was comprehensively proven to be the right decision, with the team recovering to avoid relegation comfortably, followed by a substantial improvement in league position the following year.

Oh, and just because “every other club” might have sacked him, doesn’t change the fact that the club were actually fully justified in their decision not to do so. 

So why do you talk as if LJ has overseen a disastrous reign, as if it’s beyond doubt that he should have been sacked?

And why do you claim to represent everyone with phrases like “we all know”. Speak for yourself and yourself only.

I’m far from LJ’s biggest fan. The inconsistency in our performances needs fixing. I wouldn’t mourn his departure. But his tenure has been nowhere near the car crash you make it out to be.

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21 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

That’s not wage-bill....that’s market value, and the weakest part of that website because it’s not factual, but based on a formula (and some guesswork).

Our wage bill must’ve increased significantly in 17/18 to account for the biggest loss we’ve made....see post re Gavin Marshall, Bristol Sport CFO.  We were bottom 8 in 16/17...I reckon we’ll be more mid-table, which if you exclude 6,7,8 on parachute payments means we are competing with the wages of bigger clubs than us (depending on his you judge big!!).

 

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13 minutes ago, Murraysrightplum said:

Does it need a new thread every time someone thinks they’re having an original thought when they are basically repeating the same thing that’s been done to death over the last 2 years?

Or can we just have two separate threads with LJ in/out....its getting silly now. 

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

That’s not wage-bill....that’s market value, and the weakest part of that website because it’s not factual, but based on a formula (and some guesswork).

Our wage bill must’ve increased significantly in 17/18 to account for the biggest loss we’ve made....see post re Gavin Marshall, Bristol Sport CFO.  We were bottom 8 in 16/17...I reckon we’ll be more mid-table, which if you exclude 6,7,8 on parachute payments means we are competing with the wages of bigger clubs than us (depending on his you judge big!!).

 

Agreed Dave - and I was just waiting for someone to make that point.

However allowing for the guesswork of Transfermarkt on values, I think it gives us a very rough estimation of where we are with wage bills. Like you say, probably mid-table. Probably roughly where our current league position is ironically!

Remember this was all in response to a poster claiming LJ had "huge resources".  Well, yes, compared to L1 Bristol City of yesteryear, but not so, compared to the numerous big fish in the Championship currently.

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36 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Agreed Dave - and I was just waiting for someone to make that point.

However allowing for the guesswork of Transfermarkt on values, I think it gives us a very rough estimation of where we are with wage bills. Like you say, probably mid-table. Probably roughly where our current league position is ironically!

Remember this was all in response to a poster claiming LJ had "huge resources".  Well, yes, compared to L1 Bristol City of yesteryear, but not so, compared to the numerous big fish in the Championship currently.

I honestly think we are where we 'are' in this division. Mid-table budget. Mid-table attendances. Mid-table goals scored. Mid-table goals conceded. 4 wins. 4 draws. 4 loses.

Being a mid-table team will mean with the vagaries of the fixture list, injuries, travel, individual form, international breaks etc etc we will have good and bad runs throughout the season.

I think having players like Kalas, as someone else put it, takes us from being a mid-table team to a play-off team. Add in a Bolasie, Woodburn, Mount, Gayle or Abraham and that is better still.

For me, it's clear we are trying to play a brand of football i'm not sure we have the quality of player to consistently maintain. Hence the hit and miss nature of this squad. We are, because of budget, 2 or 3 top top class players away from challenging. Is that a mistake by the manager or an agreed tactic from the top? 

Is all this good enough? I notice people comparing us to Sheffield Utd or Brentford. I also remember people regularly comparing us to Preston and Alex Neil's name was mentioned a lot....not so much recently. My point? There is always a comparison in this division, some are too selective with them and you only watch one team in this division week in week out, I notice Brentford haven't won in their last 5 games either. 

Could another manager get more out of this squad, maybe, but I dis-agree with posters that say LJ's tenure here has been a failure, one of the most divisive for sure, but I think a lot has been achieved to get us established in this division.

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10 hours ago, Alessandro said:

I honestly think we are where we 'are' in this division. Mid-table budget. Mid-table attendances. Mid-table goals scored. Mid-table goals conceded. 4 wins. 4 draws. 4 loses.

Being a mid-table team will mean with the vagaries of the fixture list, injuries, travel, individual form, international breaks etc etc we will have good and bad runs throughout the season.

I think having players like Kalas, as someone else put it, takes us from being a mid-table team to a play-off team. Add in a Bolasie, Woodburn, Mount, Gayle or Abraham and that is better still.

For me, it's clear we are trying to play a brand of football i'm not sure we have the quality of player to consistently maintain. Hence the hit and miss nature of this squad. We are, because of budget, 2 or 3 top top class players away from challenging. Is that a mistake by the manager or an agreed tactic from the top? 

Is all this good enough? I notice people comparing us to Sheffield Utd or Brentford. I also remember people regularly comparing us to Preston and Alex Neil's name was mentioned a lot....not so much recently. My point? There is always a comparison in this division, some are too selective with them and you only watch one team in this division week in week out, I notice Brentford haven't won in their last 5 games either. 

Could another manager get more out of this squad, maybe, but I dis-agree with posters that say LJ's tenure here has been a failure, one of the most divisive for sure, but I think a lot has been achieved to get us established in this division.

The comparison to clubs like Preston, Sheff Utd,  Brentford etc - clubs similar to us ie no parachute payments, similar wages budget or lower in Preston's case - is to illustrate that having less money than the super rich only makes it more challenging and difficult, not impossible. 

Some on here give the impression that there is no hope for clubs such as us despite examples to the contrary. The club's owner does not appear to share this pessimism. 

This isn't to say that we expect or demand promotion, simply to say: "we can do better than we are doing." We can get more bang for our buck. In my case it is also not to question the head coach's position. 

On another thread I quoted SL himself from last May in which he - Steve Lansdown - said:

"We now have to learn from what we've done this year and go again next year and look to go a few steps further, get in the top six and vie for promotion at the end of the season. "

Now, I don't know what you hear when you read that, but what I hear is Steve Lansdown saying "go a few steps further" meaning, do better than last season ie 10th or higher. I also hear "get in the top six" meaning, er, get in the top six, ie the play offs. And "vie for promotion" means, to my mind, "get in the play offs" (the top six!) at the end of the season, rather than in December and January. You can only "vie" for promotion if you are "in the top six" "at the end of the season."

Steve is setting the bar high - higher each season - and looking for people to deliver the performance required. He has been consistent with his comments about challenging at the top end of this division, not struggling at the bottom (despite this, there is ongoing insistence that he is not interested in promotion). He couldn't be much clearer in his own quoted words above. He might be asking a lot - he might even be "deluded" in hoping that we can "vie for promotion" while selling our best players - but that looks like to me what he is asking of his coach and the squad. There is some evidence, and examples, which supports his optimistic outlook.

If Preston can finish 7th last season, with less than us, then there must be a way for us, with quite a bit more, to finish 6th, to "get in the top six," to "vie for promotion." It cannot be impossible. So long as there is the slightest possibility of doing so, Steve wants people at the club who can find the way. 

LJ has found a way to improve our league position in two and a half seasons here and from what Steve said in May he is looking for the same again this season (despite everything). Because if we keep improving and finishing a little higher at some point we will be in "the top six" and if you are there "at the end of the season" then you are in a position to "vie" for promotion. 

If we were to finish the same as last season, or a bit lower, I don't know what Steve would then think but I do not imagine he will be in any rush to remove LJ because it is clear from other statements from SL that the trust he has in Lee is critical. Having employed and paid wages to enough charlatans, wasters and shysters in his time here, having a head coach who has "his heart in it" is not something he will give up in a hurry. 

I would think that while Steve asks for year on year improvement he will know that progress is not always smooth and that a step backwards this season, or a bit of stagnation, does not necessarily mean we cannot "vie for promotion" next season.

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11 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

Agreed Dave - and I was just waiting for someone to make that point.

However allowing for the guesswork of Transfermarkt on values, I think it gives us a very rough estimation of where we are with wage bills. Like you say, probably mid-table. Probably roughly where our current league position is ironically!

Remember this was all in response to a poster claiming LJ had "huge resources".  Well, yes, compared to L1 Bristol City of yesteryear, but not so, compared to the numerous big fish in the Championship currently.

Whatever our wages were last season, I think we can say they were not for wages 11/24, where we finished in the football table. I think they were 17th, but not sure. Either way, LJ over achieved last season, on the wages spent and position in the table delivered (regardless of the boom and bust nature of our form).

This is what SL is asking of his head coach, it is what the majority of football clubs ask: over achieve. Deliver me a higher league position than the wages we spend ought to produce.

By some estimates, with Weimann and Kallas, SL has given LJ a bigger wage budget again, and guess what he will be asking in return: yes, more over-achievement, and with more spent on wages, to finish higher than last season (and SL has publicly stated exactly this in two separate interviews).

It's a bloody big ask and good luck to LJ to keep delivering it but he didn't interview for the job saying I will deliver a league position exactly in proportion to the wages we spend compared to our competitors. And I doubt SL asked for that or put it in the job spec. 

They all want a bit more than might reasonably be expected.

Without parachute payments and putting the club at risk by over-spending, this is the only way to get promoted from this division: by a coach over-achieving and delivering a whole greater than the sum of its parts.

And from what I can see, and the repeated comments from SL, and from what he has done (ie, spent £50m on the ground), I think he wants to see us promoted to and playing in the Premier League. 

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On ‎07‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 18:50, BS4 on Tour... said:

Mick McCarthy would bite a club’s hand off to be able to spend £15m per year.....his hands were well and truly tied at Ipswich - he spent about a third of that in his entire time at Ipswich .....and he’s got an incredible track record that our current head coach can only dream about....

Mick McCarthy win % is 38.8% Lee Johnson win % is 38.5% 

If Mick McCarthy's record is incredible Lee's is good as its only 0.3% different.

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2 hours ago, CHIPLEY RED said:

Mick McCarthy win % is 38.8% Lee Johnson win % is 38.5% 

If Mick McCarthy's record is incredible Lee's is good as its only 0.3% different.

Oh dear .... Mick McCarthy took Millwall to a third place finish in the championship in his first season as Millwall manager - then he took the Rep of Ireland to the 2002 World Cup Finals as manager where they nearly made the quarter finals but were eliminated by Spain in a penalty shoot out, that was the fifth best performance by a European team at that tournament - then he took Sunderland into the premier league as champions of the championship as their manager - then he took Wolves to the championship play offs in his first season as manager at Moulineux, then he finished 7th in the championship as Wolves boss in his second season, then he won the championship in his third season as Wolves boss, he took them up into the premier league as champions having spent 42 of the 46 ‘game weeks’ top of the table, then he kept Wolves in the premier league for three seasons. And his time at Wolves was very difficult at the start, they’d just got rid of Glenn Hoddle as manager and had to sell most of their established first team players due to their financial situation. Then Mick went to Ipswich as manager and worked miracles during his six years there, having only £5m to spend on transfer fees in that entire time - yet he kept them in the championship comfortably....and you think that record is only marginally better than LJ’s?! As I said - oh dear...

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4 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Oh dear .... Mick McCarthy took Millwall to a third place finish in the championship in his first season as Millwall manager - then he took the Rep of Ireland to the 2002 World Cup Finals as manager where they nearly made the quarter finals but were eliminated by Spain in a penalty shoot out, that was the fifth best performance by a European team at that tournament - then he took Sunderland into the premier league as champions of the championship as their manager - then he took Wolves to the championship play offs in his first season as manager at Moulineux, then he finished 7th in the championship as Wolves boss in his second season, then he won the championship in his third season as Wolves boss, he took them up into the premier league as champions having spent 42 of the 46 ‘game weeks’ top of the table, then he kept Wolves in the premier league for three seasons. And his time at Wolves was very difficult at the start, they’d just got rid of Glenn Hoddle as manager and had to sell most of their established first team players due to their financial situation. Then Mick went to Ipswich as manager and worked miracles during his six years there, having only £5m to spend on transfer fees in that entire time - yet he kept them in the championship comfortably....and you think that record is only marginally better than LJ’s?! As I said - oh dear...

I just quoted the statistics. 

I would rather have Lee Johnson than Mick McCarthy or someone like Neil Warnock who is another who is regularly mentioned on here. But that's just my opinion.

And by the way if Mick did such a good job at Ipswich, which was his last job, how come he was hounded out by the fans and has not been snapped up by another club.

 

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