glen humphries Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 hours ago, richwwtk said: There are no personal comments, granted. But it seems that after every defeat the same people come out with the same comments, usually based around he has taken us as far as he can and any other manager would have been sacked. The truth is that we are improving every season, we are finishing within a couple of league places either way of teams with managers that the same people regularly name as what we should be aiming for. Lee Johnson is widely seen in the football world as one of the most promising young managers out there, and the majority of fans clubs in this division would give their right arm to have him in charge. You only need to listen to the fans view interviews that OSIB do after matches, he is regularly quoted as one of the things other clubs are jealous of us for. The fact that it takes no more than one or two matches for the regulars to come on here saying he should be sacked makes me think that there are other reasons for them wanting him gone, and it seems likely to me that these reasons are more personal than the footballing reasons stated. Majority of other clubs fans would give there right arm to have lj at there club , come on mate that’s not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLionLad Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 13 minutes ago, Port Said Red said: What is this? Gaschat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 It’s almost as if we’re not one of the best clubs in the world and similarly don’t have one of the best managers in the world. How has this been allowed to happen! If only I’d known this when I yet again bought my season ticket in April or whenever it was. Johnson/Tits/Rees/Not/Lansdown/Dicks/Ashton OUT immediately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 We are clearly on a poor results run so those who think LJ is doing a good job at City are getting in first. It's a bit like the MP's, from all parties by the way, who tell us what a wonderful Prime Minister is in office when in actual fact, the government is having a rocky spell. This season's "Boom" has not lasted as long as the previous two seasons. Now the latest "Bust" is five games old and two points from fifteen. So happy clappers, should we complain now? Or wait a while to see how long this run goes on? What if it continues past the "11 points from 66 two seasons ago"? Are we entitled to raise the subject then? That's alright if SL is content with us continuing in the lower half of the Championship with gates over 20,000. But how long will we have those attendances if we are continually trying to dig ourselves out of a hole? It will be 15,000 if we are lucky. I understand very well that SL is intent on making us self sufficient financially. But, imo, the only way to do that is to get promotion and join those who are getting all the TV money and parachute payments for three years if we come back down. If Bournemeouth can stay up on 11,000 a game, then surely we could. I believe that we will never get there while we have LJ as our head coach. Fine if you want us to bounce down and up from League One. Fine if you do not mind our star players leaving every summer for the cash pay off at a Premier League team. My dream is to see us back up there where we were forty years ago, before I die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 3 hours ago, reddogkev said: Doesn't it drive you all to despair? Whenever City's form dips into losses and draws, the knives come straight out for LJ. We all know it's going to happen on here, but it is still pretty sad. For me, it's simple - despite the improved Stadium and facilities, we are still a relatively small club for this league (growing bigger each season, I might add). Of course we are going to have bad runs, as most teams do in the Championship (other than the teams who get promoted). It doesn't mean LJ should become the source of such ill-feeling. We all know this league is tough and competitive, there will be spells of losses / draws, in exactly the same way there will be surprise wins. I reckon it is time to stop the LJ bashing whenever our form drops, it is tedious to read every single time .... I’m just amazed you havnt started one of your insightful Nailed On For Promotion Nailed On for Play Offs Nailed On for........oh Threads Tedious ........indeed Next best thing I guess though ’Gaffer’. Are you trying to sound like a player ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 hours ago, richwwtk said: There are no personal comments, granted. But it seems that after every defeat the same people come out with the same comments, usually based around he has taken us as far as he can and any other manager would have been sacked. The truth is that we are improving every season, we are finishing within a couple of league places either way of teams with managers that the same people regularly name as what we should be aiming for. Lee Johnson is widely seen in the football world as one of the most promising young managers out there, and the majority of fans clubs in this division would give their right arm to have him in charge. You only need to listen to the fans view interviews that OSIB do after matches, he is regularly quoted as one of the things other clubs are jealous of us for. The fact that it takes no more than one or two matches for the regulars to come on here saying he should be sacked makes me think that there are other reasons for them wanting him gone, and it seems likely to me that these reasons are more personal than the footballing reasons stated. Unbelievable Jeff The post.......You must be related ....surely... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 We’re three points off the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenred Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, BRISTOL86 said: We’re three points off the playoffs. Indeed. But we are also no win in 5 games. Imagine where we could be if things were going just a little better at the moment? I’ve said before on previous posts that the quality I’ve seen this season from othe teams means imho the with a bit of consistency we could have a fantastic chance this year. But yet again we are on another one of LJs ‘runs’ it seems. And as a result debate around the reasons why is extremely valid on a forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: We’re three points off the playoffs. Will we make the playoffs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj77 Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 Granted I don't go every week but I haven't seen the football that won City so many plaudits last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, lenred said: Indeed. But we are also no win in 5 games. Imagine where we could be if things were going just a little better at the moment? I’ve said before on previous posts that the quality I’ve seen this season from othe teams means imho the with a bit of consistency we could have a fantastic chance this year. But yet again we are on another one of LJs ‘runs’ it seems. And as a result debate around the reasons why is extremely valid on a forum. And at this time of season , so are half the teams in the Championship , are only ‘ *points off the play offs’ There are 12 teams with 4 or less points of play offs, six of whom sit above us ....we are also 10 points between play offs and relegation zone at present And we could have easily lost against any of the sides we have taken points off at AG they all missed very good chances when drawing or even when ahead in Blackburn’s case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 We are very easy to play against. End of. Opponents only need to be patient and wait for Pack and Brownhill to stray out of position, and launch a ball over their heads, neither is capable of getting back and neither can be trusted to be the holding midfielder. Their first goal was a carbon copy of 3 of the goals WBA scored against, our move breaks down, Pack and Brownhill are both far too forward in no mans land and the keepers takes them bot out with a kick from hands over their heads, both running through treacle trying to get back. No protection for the defence at all. Having said that Baker was a pussie and should have been far stronger. The 2nd goal Pack and Brownhill couldn't look more confused if they tried, at least Pack made an effort to get back, Brownhill was ambling. The brief highlights show exactly what the problem is, Pack and Brownhilll are not operating as a cohesive midfield unit, they are both good players but lack the discipline to play consistently as a unit. It also doesn"t help playing Paterson because he weakens an already struggling midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 I think they were saying on tv at the weekend that the Championship is very tight this season as they has been a lot of draws. As long as we keep up with the majority we will be alright, if alright is indeed what we want. It’s no shock to me that we are where we are. I don’t think we did the right business last January and the feeling has moved on through this window until where we are now. SL stated before the last match of the season that a few popular faces might be moving and he wanted us to finish higher than we did, do more with less was my immediate feeling and nothing has changed my view. We lost players by selling them for good money, we lost players who left cheaply and we have lost players through lengthy injuries. A couple of players are yet to play for us. Reasons or excuses? I still say it was a big ask for any manager to produce greater with inferior players, instantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturny Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, RedM said: I think they were saying on tv at the weekend that the Championship is very tight this season as they has been a lot of draws. As long as we keep up with the majority we will be alright, if alright is indeed what we want. It’s no shock to me that we are where we are. I don’t think we did the right business last January and the feeling has moved on through this window until where we are now. SL stated before the last match of the season that a few popular faces might be moving and he wanted us to finish higher than we did, do more with less was my immediate feeling and nothing has changed my view. We lost places by selling them for good money, we lost players who left cheaply and we have lost players through lengthy injuries. A couple of players are yet to play for us. Reasons or excuses? I still say it was a big ask for any manager to produce greater with inferior players, instantly. I made this point at the beginning of the season and got absolutely roasted (https://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/196217-inevitable-but-terrible-disappointing-transfer-window-merged/&) Thought we'd be in for a more troubling start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Sturny said: I made this point at the beginning of the season and got absolutely roasted, thought we'd be in for a more troubling start Best put my tin hat on then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: We are very easy to play against. End of. Opponents only need to be patient and wait for Pack and Brownhill to stray out of position, and launch a ball over their heads, neither is capable of getting back and neither can be trusted to be the holding midfielder. Their first goal was a carbon copy of 3 of the goals WBA scored against, our move breaks down, Pack and Brownhill are both far too forward in no mans land and the keepers takes them bot out with a kick from hands over their heads, both running through treacle trying to get back. No protection for the defence at all. Having said that Baker was a pussie and should have been far stronger. The 2nd goal Pack and Brownhill couldn't look more confused if they tried, at least Pack made an effort to get back, Brownhill was ambling. The brief highlights show exactly what the problem is, Pack and Brownhilll are not operating as a cohesive midfield unit, they are both good players but lack the discipline to play consistently as a unit. It also doesn"t help playing Paterson because he weakens an already struggling midfield. I agree with a lot you say EMB But the first goal was absolutely zilch fault of Pack ,Brownhill, in fact anyone but Baker and to some large or lesser degree Maenappa it was a fly kicked clearance from their keeper that went over every player and our midfield by a good 30m Baker then defends like someone who’s never seen a football, the first thing taught as a kid playing at the back , don’t let the ball bounce.....oh he has......next HAS to be , make a decision and , deal with it quickly .........no ...do nothing .....try and usher it back to Maenappa........oh Who shouted ? What was shouted ? I don’t know byput Bakers involvement was pitiful whatever was or wasn’t communicated and dependent on that and the fact that Maenappa I think could have collected the ball on the edge of the area if he’d gone there means he probably doesn’t come out of it smelling of roses Nothing to do with Pack , Brownhill or anyone else on or off the pitch mate (Although If I’d been LJ I would have been smelling the problem as soon as he let it bounce and shouting at him to deal with it early Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmycolour Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 4 hours ago, reddogkev said: Doesn't it drive you all to despair? Whenever City's form dips into losses and draws, the knives come straight out for LJ. We all know it's going to happen on here, but it is still pretty sad. For me, it's simple - despite the improved Stadium and facilities, we are still a relatively small club for this league (growing bigger each season, I might add). Of course we are going to have bad runs, as most teams do in the Championship (other than the teams who get promoted). It doesn't mean LJ should become the source of such ill-feeling. We all know this league is tough and competitive, there will be spells of losses / draws, in exactly the same way there will be surprise wins. I reckon it is time to stop the LJ bashing whenever our form drops, it is tedious to read every single time .... So who do you blame, the man who picks the team or the coaching staff, you can't sack the players, so who do you sack, one person LJ, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redrascal2 Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 3 hours ago, richwwtk said: Interspersed with an equal number of unbeaten runs, where we play some great football. So long as the side overall keeps on improving, then I don't see how quite so many people have such a problem with Lee Johnson. The knives coming out for him after every couple of bad results certainly feels more personal than normal calls for a managers head. Should we find ourselves struggling at the wrong end of the table then of course his position should be under scrutiny, but at the moment we are one win away from the playoffs. A win that would surely have happened on Sunday had a couple of breaks gone our way in the first half. So do you think that the team under Johnson is improving. I would say in spite of endless signings it is going backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Redrascal2 said: So do you think that the team under Johnson is improving. I would say in spite of endless signings it is going backwards. The league table, season on season would suggest otherwise. It's too early in the season, and the league table is too volatile, to say either way this season. I would say that, whilst we are still to hit the (occasional) heights of last season, we are certainly a better side than when he took over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, RedM said: I think they were saying on tv at the weekend that the Championship is very tight this season as they has been a lot of draws. As long as we keep up with the majority we will be alright, if alright is indeed what we want. It’s no shock to me that we are where we are. I don’t think we did the right business last January and the feeling has moved on through this window until where we are now. SL stated before the last match of the season that a few popular faces might be moving and he wanted us to finish higher than we did, do more with less was my immediate feeling and nothing has changed my view. We lost players by selling them for good money, we lost players who left cheaply and we have lost players through lengthy injuries. A couple of players are yet to play for us. Reasons or excuses? I still say it was a big ask for any manager to produce greater with inferior players, instantly. Good points n post M Hey we lost three players (All Of Which were written off as overrated and replaceable by many and quite a lot of claims on here that we’ have upgraded on them) In my mind , we indeed lost 3 vying for our best player tag and a lot more in terms of character and b***s that many seem to have even considered Or would except or admit They have been replaced and not on the cheap and to counterbalance any negative if there is one, in our summer sales and replacements we should have the benefit of a counterbalance by now The counterbalance...... What we should be benefitting from is from the backing and retaining a Head Coach for 3 years ,and the expected benefits of that decision - Tactical plan / clear identified way of playing reflected in recruitment and selection A squad assembled to his particular requirements and with the characters that he has chosen A coach who has worked with a fair few of the squad for at least 2 if not the three years (Only 3 left in the summer not 8 ) etc etc People can make their own minds up ,but do you think we are seeing such benefits ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, richwwtk said: The league table, season on season would suggest otherwise. It's too early in the season, and the league table is too volatile, to say either way this season. I would say that, whilst we are still to hit the (occasional) heights of last season, we are certainly a better side than when he took over. Are we ? Despite my zilch respect of The Loan Tomlin Or Kodjia ......We certainly don’t look like it at the moment IMHO We might a much larger squad ......and wage bill but that’s not a better side... And , even if we did It would be the absolute minimum I’d expect after 3 years , 50 + signings , and £40 odd million Jesus wept Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 43 minutes ago, lenred said: Indeed. But we are also no win in 5 games. Imagine where we could be if things were going just a little better at the moment? I’ve said before on previous posts that the quality I’ve seen this season from othe teams means imho the with a bit of consistency we could have a fantastic chance this year. But yet again we are on another one of LJs ‘runs’ it seems. And as a result debate around the reasons why is extremely valid on a forum. That’s football though isn’t it. The mistake we make is thinking we’re the only team to have good and bad runs of form. The very fact that despite no win in 5, we are 3 points off the playoffs just proves that. 41 minutes ago, Super said: Will we make the playoffs? Before we even consider the effects of the uneven distribution of financial clout, there’s an 18/24 chance that we WONT make the playoffs. For any manager without a top six budget to make the playoffs is an enormous accomplishment and one that the vast majority will fail to do every single year. We’re nothing special in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 34 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: I agree with a lot you say EMB But the first goal was absolutely zilch fault of Pack ,Brownhill, in fact anyone but Baker and to some large or lesser degree Maenappa it was a fly kicked clearance from their keeper that went over every player and our midfield by a good 30m Baker then defends like someone who’s never seen a football, the first thing taught as a kid playing at the back , don’t let the ball bounce.....oh he has......next HAS to be , make a decision and , deal with it quickly .........no ...do nothing .....try and usher it back to Maenappa........oh Who shouted ? What was shouted ? I don’t know byput Bakers involvement was pitiful whatever was or wasn’t communicated and dependent on that and the fact that Maenappa I think could have collected the ball on the edge of the area if he’d gone there means he probably doesn’t come out of it smelling of roses Nothing to do with Pack , Brownhill or anyone else on or off the pitch mate (Although If I’d been LJ I would have been smelling the problem as soon as he let it bounce and shouting at him to deal with it early My point is that they were still woefully out of position and far to close to one another, there is little or no communication between the 2 of them and certainly even less discipline about who goes and who stays. And it is becoming a tactic against us in most games, wait until they both stray out of position and put one over the top, either down the middle or to either wing, it doesn't matter because not only are they out of position the full backs are usually well ahead of the play as well, leaving to centre backs on their own Against WBA, one roll out by the keeper took our centre midfield and full backs out of the game, one overarm throw by the keeper and one kick did the same and all 3 resulted in goals. It wouldn't be so bad if one dropped off and we provisionally play with a back 3 when attacking, but with 2 strikers, 2 wide men, 2 full backs and 2 centre midfielders all chasing the ball, well you do the maths? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 37 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Are we ? Despite my zilch respect of The Loan Tomlin Or Kodjia ......We certainly don’t look like it at the moment IMHO We might a much larger squad ......and wage bill but that’s not a better side... And , even if we did It would be the absolute minimum I’d expect after 3 years , 50 + signings , and £40 odd million Jesus wept Yes, we most certainly are. When Lee Johnson took over we were, without a shadow of a doubt, going to be relegated under Cotts. Since then we have improved our league position and points tally season on season. How can anyone argue that we were a better side then as opposed to now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 I am not saying that Lee Johnson doesn't have his problems, the main one being that he has yet to work out how to adapt our 'style' when coming up against teams that are more limited in ability maybe, but more stubborn and determined to stop us playing. But I do believe that he is probably the best person to take us forward at the moment. Unless you would like to suggest someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Port Said Red said: I am sure there were some pretty horrendous runs in each of our relegation seasons, especially during our fall from the 1st to 4th divisions. I think you need to take off your rose tinted spectacles Ivor, I remember far worse times than we have been experiencing lately. Sorry Port Said but facts speak for themselves. It was our worst run ever. Of course, we have had worse times overall, but with so much investment in players, infra structure, and ground, plus the owner's declared aim, we are falling Ever behind under LJ, or if that is too dismal a deduction for you, then we are at best just floating along and such a situation is, even medium term, unlikely to be sustainable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeWordCityNerd Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Port Said Red said: What is this? this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Sturny said: Just curious, does the gradual climb in league position over the years have any effect on your opinion on him? Do you just look at form? Or think we should be making more progression than we are? What do you mean by gradual climb? In the last 20 years we have yo-yo'd between 2nd and 3rd tier. For the first time in that period we have an owner who has invested infinitely more than anybody else before him yet he presides over a rookie coach tasked with taking the club from maximum 3 million prize money to minimum 100 million prize money. In my humble opinion you may well give such a 'promising' rookie a fair crack of the whip if real and fast progress is made to qualify for such prize money. Johnson has had that time and some and in my view is showing scant little sign of learning fast enough on the job; well, that is blatantly self evident. I think my remarks adequately answer your questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturny Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, havanatopia said: What do you mean by gradual climb? In the last 20 years we have yo-yo'd between 2nd and 3rd tier. For the first time in that period we have an owner who has invested infinitely more than anybody else before him yet he presides over a rookie coach tasked with taking the club from maximum 3 million prize money to minimum 100 million prize money. In my humble opinion you may well give such a 'promising' rookie a fair crack of the whip if real and fast progress is made to qualify for such prize money. Johnson has had that time and some and in my view is showing scant little sign of learning fast enough on the job; well, that is blatantly self evident. I think my remarks adequately answer your questions. Gradual climb in league position since LJ took over, which is a fact. Didn't realise you were talking about the wider history of City which is irrelevant to the topic of this thread, so fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 36 minutes ago, richwwtk said: Yes, we most certainly are. When Lee Johnson took over we were, without a shadow of a doubt, going to be relegated under Cotts. Since then we have improved our league position and points tally season on season. How can anyone argue that we were a better side then as opposed to now? So , let me get this right .....by your very simplistic (single fact) criteria to date If we finish this season lower or with a lower points total we will have gone backwards in last 12 months ...yes ? as for you’re ‘we were, without a shadow of a doubt, going to be relegated under Cotts.’ This was the table when the Messiah took over - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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