A bad run doesn't mean the gaffer has to be lynched

[lenred]

58 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

That’s football though isn’t it. The mistake we make is thinking we’re the only team to have good and bad runs of form.

The very fact that despite no win in 5, we are 3 points off the playoffs just proves that. 

Before we even consider the effects of the uneven distribution of financial clout, there’s an 18/24 chance that we WONT make the playoffs. 

For any manager without a top six budget to make the playoffs is an enormous accomplishment and one that the vast majority will fail to do every single year. We’re nothing special in that regard. 

You’ve chosen to answer my point with ‘that’s football’. Fair enough, but that answer can be applied to numerous other areas as well,one of which would be if LJ got the boot for his ‘runs’ over the last few years. Oh well ‘that’s football’. 

The fact remains that if he sorted out these runs of poor performance then we would be in a much better position and who knows where we might be now - we certainly would’ve made the play offs last season without a doubt and then its a crap shoot to the Prem

He would also have far far less people questioning his credentials for the role I’d suggest. 

[AppyDAZE]

4 hours ago, richwwtk said:

There are no personal comments, granted. But it seems that after every defeat the same people come out with the same comments, usually based around he has taken us as far as he can and any other manager would have been sacked.

The truth is that we are improving every season, we are finishing within a couple of league places either way of teams with managers that the same people regularly name as what we should be aiming for.

Lee Johnson is widely seen in the football world as one of the most promising young managers out there, and the majority of fans clubs in this division would give their right arm to have him in charge. You only need to listen to the fans view interviews that OSIB do after matches, he is regularly quoted as one of the things other clubs are jealous of us for.

The fact that it takes no more than one or two matches for the regulars to come on here saying he should be sacked makes me think that there are other reasons for them wanting him gone, and it seems likely to me that these reasons are more personal than the footballing reasons stated.

um, no way. I seriously struggle to name one. I've worked my way down the table and gotten as far as Wigan. ffs they've got Paul Cook who is better in my book.

It's OK not wanting the guy sacked, I don't t. But nonsense like this isn't helping.

 

[richwwtk]

13 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

So , let me get this right .....by your very simplistic (single fact) criteria to date

If we finish this season lower or with a lower points total we will have gone backwards in last 12 months ...yes ?

 

as for you’re ‘we were, without a shadow of a doubt, going to be relegated under Cotts.’

This was the table when the Messiah took over -

Yes, if we finish lower than last season, then we will indeed have gone backwards. To my mind, unless relegation is imminent requiring urgent action, then that would be the time to take a look at LJ's continued employment.

That table was roughly 4 games after Cotts went wasn't it? I know the results improved in the immediate aftermath of the sacking, but it was LJ that was chosen to get the job permanently and that recovery did indeed continue with him.

[richwwtk]

1 minute ago, AppyDAZE said:

um, no way. I seriously struggle to name one. I've worked my way down the table and gotten as far as Wigan. ffs they've got Paul Cook who is better in my book.

You can not want the guy sacked, I don't. but nonsense like this isn't helping.

 

Try listening to OSIB, they interview an away fan after games at AG, and I think pretty much every one I have heard so far has had nothing but good things to say about Lee Johnson. His reputation away from the confines of this forum is very good indeed.

[AppyDAZE]

4 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

Try listening to OSIB, they interview an away fan after games at AG, and I think pretty much every one I have heard so far has had nothing but good things to say about Lee Johnson. His reputation away from the confines of this forum is very good indeed.

Well, I was listening. "give their right arm to have him as their manager" Who we on about then?

[BobBobSuperBob]

5 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

Yes, if we finish lower than last season, then we will indeed have gone backwards. To my mind, unless relegation is imminent requiring urgent action, then that would be the time to take a look at LJ's continued employment.

That table was roughly 4 games after Cotts went wasn't it? I know the results improved in the immediate aftermath of the sacking, but it was LJ that was chosen to get the job permanently and that recovery did indeed continue with him.

This was the end of season table

a whole 3 points above a relegation spot

and a whole 3 places by 2 points above where we were when he came in

IIRC we were right in the mire with 7-8 games to go

We survived, Fact ....just

But Fed up with the urban myth that’s been spun about how Johnson performed some sort of miracle by saving us

 

[Port Said Red]

39 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

Sorry Port Said but facts speak for themselves. It was our worst run ever.

Of course, we have had worse times overall, but with so much investment in players, infra structure, and ground, plus the owner's declared aim, we are falling Ever behind under LJ, or if that is too dismal a deduction for you, then we are at best just floating along and such a situation is, even medium term, unlikely to be sustainable 

So what? Your issue isn't that we have had a couple of poor results, you want to keep dragging up a previous poor run, how long for? Until you finally get your way and you can start on the next poor sucker? I am sure you were one of thise who would have ditched Alan Dicks when he was building his side in the early 70's, thank **** this forum and social media in general didn't exist then. 

[BigTone]

6 hours ago, reddogkev said:

Doesn't it drive you all to despair?  Whenever City's form dips into losses and draws, the knives come straight out for LJ.  We all know it's going to happen on here, but it is still pretty sad.

For me, it's simple - despite the improved Stadium and facilities, we are still a relatively small club for this league (growing bigger each season, I might add).  Of course we are going to have bad runs, as most teams do in the Championship (other than the teams who get promoted).  It doesn't mean LJ should become the source of such ill-feeling.

We all know this league is tough and competitive, there will be spells of losses / draws, in exactly the same way there will be surprise wins.

I reckon it is time to stop the LJ bashing whenever our form drops, it is tedious to read every single time ....

Come on Kev this wouldn't be OTIB without a half decent lynching

[REDOXO]

Has LJ been lynched? Not seen that in the news...Unless it was a metaphor of course.

We have been poor recently, but played better on Saturday and still contrived to give away soft goals...We are often the architects of our own downfall which needs to stop. 

LJ knows this. 

Forums exist to allow people to state their views even when they talk garbage, I haven’t seen any real attacks on the bloke but he knows we are on another dodgy run and too be frank the last one started at Christmas and ended with four wins recently...Off we go again LLDDL what next?

 

[BigTone]

6 hours ago, reddogkev said:

Doesn't it drive you all to despair?  Whenever City's form dips into losses and draws, the knives come straight out for LJ.  We all know it's going to happen on here, but it is still pretty sad.

For me, it's simple - despite the improved Stadium and facilities, we are still a relatively small club for this league (growing bigger each season, I might add).  Of course we are going to have bad runs, as most teams do in the Championship (other than the teams who get promoted).  It doesn't mean LJ should become the source of such ill-feeling.

We all know this league is tough and competitive, there will be spells of losses / draws, in exactly the same way there will be surprise wins.

I reckon it is time to stop the LJ bashing whenever our form drops, it is tedious to read every single time ....

Come on Kev this wouldn't be OTIB without a half decent lynching

[Bazooka Joe]

11 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Has LJ been lynched? Not seen that in the news...Unless it was a metaphor of course.

We have been poor recently, but played better on Saturday and still contrived to give away soft goals...We are often the architects of our own downfall which needs to stop. 

LJ knows this. 

Forums exist to allow people to state their views even when they talk garbage, I haven’t seen any real attacks on the bloke but he knows we are on another dodgy run and too be frank the last one started at Christmas and ended with four wins recently...Off we go again LLDDL what next? 

 

L

 

[Bazooka Joe]

Lynched?

Hang on a minute.

[Mr Popodopolous]

58 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

Sorry Port Said but facts speak for themselves. It was our worst run ever.

Of course, we have had worse times overall, but with so much investment in players, infra structure, and ground, plus the owner's declared aim, we are falling Ever behind under LJ, or if that is too dismal a deduction for you, then we are at best just floating along and such a situation is, even medium term, unlikely to be sustainable 

Plenty of investment in infrastructure and in different ways players though there has been, it's not like it gives us a huge edge over loads of clubs- lots of clubs at this level likewise invest heavily. Some better than others- I would point to Brentford as an exemplary example and then Sheffield United excellent in the last 2 seasons- especially this summer- Brooks sold about £11m and in comes Henderson (loan), Egan, Norwood, Woodburn (loan), McGoldrick (free)- plus squad players such as Johnson (loan), Washington (free)- 6 month deal I think, Crainie (free, 6 month deal probably).

My main point is though that the spending on infrastructure helps of course- but I'd say it brings us up to speed more than puts us ahead of the curve.

I have doubts about LJ, but wondering what were your realistic expectations for the season been? Back in August.

[richwwtk]

31 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

Well, I was listening. "give their right arm to have him as their manager" Who we on about then?

OK, possibly a slight exaggeration, but every time there's a job available in the Championship, it wouldn't surprise in the slightest to see LJ in the list of fans preferred replacements.

[numbeast]

5 hours ago, phantom said:

I think part of the problem is our owner comes out and says he expects a top 6 finish etc, many of us buy into this belief and when we are see the same problems on the pitch unfolding in front of our eyes as in the past it's just pure frustration, and a sad feeling of de ja vu!

If Steve Lansdown expects top 6 then he needs to recruit accordingly. I'm not saying SL hasn't invested in the squad as clearly he's spent millions on the club. To my mind it was clear we needed to replace Djuric and could have done with a creative midfielder.

Given the amount we brought in from transfers and the money saved on wages money wasn't really a believable excuse.

I'm still hopeful LJ can help the club progress, but I think he should say less in public and start kicking butt in private. Too many points have been dropped through unforced error's. As things stand we have a decent mid table squad with more discipline and a couple or 3 more new faces I think top 6 is possible.

[glen humphries]

3 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

OK, possibly a slight exaggeration, but every time there's a job available in the Championship, it wouldn't surprise in the slightest to see LJ in the list of fans preferred replacements.

Means absolutely nothing what the fans think and I still think you’re wrong, I work all over the country and talk to a lot of other football fans and I’ve never heard 1say they would love lj at their club , really don’t think you’re right.

[Ivorguy]

12 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Plenty of investment in infrastructure and in different ways players though there has been, it's not like it gives us a huge edge over loads of clubs- lots of clubs at this level likewise invest heavily. Some better than others- I would point to Brentford as an exemplary example and then Sheffield United excellent in the last 2 seasons- especially this summer- Brooks sold about £11m and in comes Henderson (loan), Egan, Norwood, Woodburn (loan), McGoldrick (free)- plus squad players such as Johnson (loan), Washington (free)- 6 month deal I think, Crainie (free, 6 month deal probably).

My main point is though that the spending on infrastructure helps of course- but I'd say it brings us up to speed more than puts us ahead of the curve.

I have doubts about LJ, but wondering what were your realistic expectations for the season been? Back in August.

Answer to your question, mid table safety before moving forward next season.

Let's see where we are after 20 games played

My concern, and others, is our dreadful inconsistency, lack of a plan B, poor recruitment,  little evidence of 'fight' from the players.  All seem happy to just float along knowing not much is expected of them.  Read today's Times piece on Rooney, a real eye opener in terms of drive and determination, which we appear to lack, without a true leader on or off the pitch.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, Ivorguy said:

Answer to your question, mid table safety before moving forward next season.

Let's see where we are after 20 games played

My concern, and others, is our dreadful inconsistency, lack of a plan B, poor recruitment,  little evidence of 'fight' from the players.  All seem happy to just float along knowing not much is expected of them.  Read today's Times piece on Rooney, a real eye opener in terms of drive and determination, which we appear to lack without a true leader on or off the pitch.

Yeah that was my likely outcome too- can't see us going down tbh.

20 games is a fair barometer- things can change though, Fulham last year after 22 games were slap bang in mid-table. Then went 23 unbeaten and played some unbelievable stuff- don't expect us to do that though, definitely not.

Yeah- lack of consistency, a Plan B- the fight and drive, well that last 7 minutes Sunday when you get 7 minutes of stoppage at home a goal down you expect them to leave everything on the pitch- strain all sinews. Not saying it's always possible to pull off or even dominate the ball because sometimes the other side has your number- saw some footage of Sheffield United at the weekend keeping the ball in stoppage right up the pitch, but Sheffield Wednesday are not like that! Can easily get at them. Recruitment, I'd disagree about poor, more like hit and miss IMO. Is Kalas a poor player, Weimann?

[Vil1]

I wish someone would break into fammys house and get him a ferry back to france! My dog controls a ball better than him.while their at it take the dwarf back to his garden shed lj out.

[glen humphries]

2 minutes ago, Vil1 said:

I wish someone would break into fammys house and get him a ferry back to france! My dog controls a ball better than him.while their at it take the dwarf back to his garden shed lj out.

[AppyDAZE]

4 minutes ago, Vil1 said:

I wish someone would break into fammys house and get him a ferry back to france! My dog controls a ball better than him.while their at it take the dwarf back to his garden shed lj out.

Not a fan?

[Bristol is red]

I can see this debate running for most of his tenture.  I think both sides have good merits for their arguments, on one hand he has brought some good times last season, the football more often than not has been lightyears ahead of the drivel of some previous managers.

The problem is he is his own worst enemy. He provided a wonderful memorable night beating Man Utd which he'll be remembered for but equally he'll be remembered for our longest losing streak in history. No wonder the fanbase is split on him, his current history mirrors that, very good highs and equally bad lows.

LJ is a promising young manager, at a club that is giving him a great platform to succeed.  Whether that promise and potential can be realised is another thing.

If LJ idividually as a manger is to progress and for us as a club to progress, he MUST find some consistency in performances as well as results. Until then he's going to hold himself back. 

Can LJ do it? I believe so, the question is WILL he do it? Jury's out.

[glen humphries]

4 minutes ago, Vil1 said:

I wish someone would break into fammys house and get him a ferry back to france! My dog controls a ball better than him.while their at it take the dwarf back to his garden shed lj out.

I’m not a lj fan in anyway shape or form but no need for the dwarf insults , I might have been whooshed with that post

[bcfcredandwhite]

Oh good - another LJ debate. 

I really don’t get this binary ‘marmite attitude to him - either you love him or hate him stuff. 

He’s ok. That’s all. 

If he takes us into the bottom 3 then I will want a change. 

In the meantime, I’m happy when we win and pissed off when we lose. 

I’m pleased when we play well, but worried when we pick up injuries.

I hope for (but don’t expect) a playoff place but would settle for another season of Championship football. 

I don’t need to ‘love’ LJ when we win, or ‘hate’ him when we lose.  I simply don’t feel either of those extremes. 

We aren’t currently in the bottom 3 so he’s ok by me for now. I think our injuries are a bigger problem for us than the manager right now. Hopefully the international break will buy us some recovery time.  

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

1 hour ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Lynched?

Hang on a minute.

A sharp kick up the harris!

[glen humphries]

8 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

Oh good - another LJ debate. 

I really don’t get this binary ‘marmite attitude to him - either you love him or hate him stuff. 

He’s ok. That’s all. 

If he takes us into the bottom 3 then I will want a change. 

In the meantime, I’m happy when we win and pissed off when we lose. 

I’m pleased when we play well, but worried when we pick up injuries.

I hope for (but don’t expect) a playoff place but would settle for another season of Championship football. 

I don’t need to ‘love’ LJ when we win, or ‘hate’ him when we lose.  I simply don’t feel either of those extremes. 

We aren’t currently in the bottom 3 so he’s ok by me for now. I think our injuries are a bigger problem for us than the manager right now. Hopefully the international break will buy us some recovery time.  

He hasn’t got to achieve much for you to be happy, he should be just about ok.

[Bar BS3]

7 hours ago, Barry Sheene said:

What i find so frustrating is that whatever performance we get from the team Good, Bad or indifferent his position seems to be ring fenced. A very privileged position to be in any profession. 

It’s not “ring fenced” though, is it. 

During the record breaking bad run, SL believed that LJ could turn it around and he was spot on. 

No only did he turn it around, but we then went on to improve further last season.

so it’s not a case of some dodgy love in, its case of our owner having faith in our manager. 

We should welcome such belief and support! 

Of course, we also need to cut out the prolonged bad spells, which for the record, I don’t think we are in one at the moment. 

I suspect that most clubs go 5 games without a win at this level. The key is not doing it more than occasionally. 

Some people need to look at the league table and realise that we are doing ok, again! 

[Bristol Oil Services]

7 hours ago, phantom said:

I think part of the problem is our owner comes out and says he expects a top 6 finish etc, many of us buy into this belief and when we are see the same problems on the pitch unfolding in front of our eyes as in the past it's just pure frustration, and a sad feeling of de ja vu!

He didn't say he "expects" top six, he said "look to go a few steps further, get in the top six and vie for promotion at the end of the season."

Look to, rather than expect.That to me means he wants to see progress on last season, being around the pace setters again, but with a more sustained challenge for the top six lasting up until the final few games. I reckon if we went into the last game with a chance of finishing 6th, that would do for SL.

Then next season, it would be: play offs this time.

[Portland Bill]

5 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

I am sure there were some pretty horrendous runs in each of our relegation seasons, especially during our fall from the 1st to 4th divisions. I think you need to take off your rose tinted spectacles Ivor, I remember far worse times than we have been experiencing lately. 

Of course we had terribly bad runs ( one big one that lasted 3-4 seasons ) when we went down 3 divisions. But as everyone knows it was totally understandable because of the clubs situation.

This current manager has had everything dished up to him on a plate though, and still we have no style of play, no consistentcy results wise, no consistency in team selection, and always an excuse blaming others when we lose a game. 

Just imagine what someone like Terry Cooper would have done with this club back in the 80’s if he was given the relative amount of money the current manager has.

Terry Cooper was in a situation where he couldn’t waste a pound, whereas LJ has wasted millions.

[Port Said Red]

8 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Of course we had terribly bad runs ( one big one that lasted 3-4 seasons ) when we went down 3 divisions. But as everyone knows it was totally understandable because of the clubs situation.

This current manager has had everything dished up to him on a plate though, and still we have no style of play, no consistentcy results wise, no consistency in team selection, and always an excuse blaming others when we lose a game. 

Just imagine what someone like Terry Cooper would have done with this club back in the 80’s if he was given the relative amount of money the current manager has.

Terry Cooper was in a situation where he couldn’t waste a pound, whereas LJ has wasted millions.

Wasted millions, what the **** are you on about? I am surprised at you, I thought you were one of the people that understood that you can't buy players for £25k anymore. Of course there have been some failures, we have always had some failures, almost always when we have spent more money that was good for us, but we still have a whole raft of players that are worth more now than when we brought them to the club, that hasn't changed just because some of them are out of form.