Michelle Owen - Unity not Negativity

[Sturny]

8 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Both sides of the "Johnson out/Johnson in; City are dire/City are ok" back-and-forth on here feed off each other.  The "moaners" need the "happy-clappers" to respond to fuel their ire; the "happy-clappers" need the "moaners" to signal their virtuous support of the club.

If you hadn't flagged this up this morning we could all still be discovering who Amy Stark is (surely, Billy's daughter?), having a chortle about Rovers, working out if you are going to attend the Senior RedS lunch, something about Spanish City players, something about Scotland losingzzzzzzzz, yawn, non-league day at Manor Farm (how long until the Championship returns, hate these international breaks) ....

Let's face it: you were bored and chose to reignite the "negativity/positivity" debate because you get something out of it? As do most of the more heated participants.

If you really disliked it, and didn't get something out of the ding-dong, you wouldn't fan the flames. Many have tried but no-one on one side of the debate ever convinces someone on the other to change their mind (as I now will fail to convince you, and so possibly fan your flame, but in so doing, signal my own virtuous position above all this unedifying and unending infernal Johnson in/Johnson out tedium ).....

 

In other words..

[RedLionLad]

1 hour ago, reddogkev said:

Where is Michelle Owen from?  Why is she involved in City affairs anyway?  Is she actually Michael Owen's sister, or Michael Owen dressing as a woman?  They do look a bit similar.

They may look similar but you'd only accept a BJ from one of them...

[Red-Robbo]

18 minutes ago, Sturny said:

Random thought, since SL eyes are set onto top 6. If we finish below that with LJ in charge this season and potentially the next. Does anyone believe that'll be enough for SL to pull the trigger? 

As he hasn't potentially met the requirement SL might have asked? 

In my view, no, because Lee will be able to stall him with talk of us being a "club in development" and also because of the goodwill that exists between them.

This despite the fact "a club in development" is a pretty meaningless phrase as you could apply it to pretty much any side. Even the Gash speak of being "in transition": in transition to being even more of a laughing stock!

The only thing that will oust Johnson this season will be a prolonged winless run. A really long one that sees us face a relegation battle.

After years of relegation battle shit (punctuated only by Cotts' wonder season and last season) I don't think fans or SL will tolerate  weeks of bumping around the bottom of the division. 

Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

[Kid in the Riot]

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Maybe I go to games and watch and look a bit deeper than a current table place or individual result ?

Clearly you do mate, and it's interesting...since I've taken a backseat from watching games at City (second season without an ST after 10-ish with one) I just can't get as worked up about the current situation as you and others. What is happening is entirely predictable as far as I can see and given the apparent ambitions of the owner I sit back and just think 'we are where we deserve to be'. We pay middling wages at this level, we sold our three best players this summer and didn't really replace them with any significant quality. So, what are our expectations supposed to be this season? You can't keep asking your manager to overachieve every season, can you?

What is happening now is a direct result of various **** ups over the last few years, starting with the shambolic summer of recruitment after our promotion from L1. Most recently it was January that is to blame. Zero ambition shown, and three shite signings which led the likes of Joe Bryan to effectively down tools and our promotion push was over before it had started. Now we have seen three key players on and off the pitch depart and you just can't lose that kind of influence in the team and expect to improve the following season unless you get lucky/invest properly.

I'm sure LJ continues to make errors and I still don't think he has the required leadership abilities that get you consistent results at this level but for me the buck still stops at the very top. The overall plan and recruitment still seems muddled and I honestly think SL is either quite content with mid/top half C'ship football or he still doesn't understand what it is going to take to get out of this division.

[BS4 on Tour...]

1 hour ago, reddogkev said:

Eddie Howe didn’t get Bournemouth promoted over night,  he was with the club for years of development before they were able to win promotion from the Championship....

Yes he did, Howe promoted the Cherries in his first full season in charge....into league one....then he went to Burnley. Upon his return to Bournemouth he got them promoted in his first season back...into the championship...then less than two seasons later he promoted them into the premier league where they’ve remained ever since...dunno where you got these ‘years of development’ from - Howe had pretty quick and instant success during both his spells as Bournemouth Manager 

[Red-Robbo]

2 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Yes he did, Howe promoted the Cherries in his first full season in charge....into league one....then he went to Burnley. Upon his return to Bournemouth he got them promoted in his first season back...into the championship...then less than two seasons later he promoted them into the premier league where they’ve remained ever since...dunno where you got these ‘years of development’ from - Howe had pretty quick and instant success during both his spells as Bournemouth Manager 

Although I'm a big fan of Howe (who isn't?) I have to say having two Russian billionaires on board had a bigger influence than Eddie's management on the second promotion.

I wonder how they'll fare if they get hit with one of these "account for your unexplained wealth" orders?

[cidered abroad]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

Indeed.

SL has appointed LJ to implement and carry out his strategy of achieving both sustainability and stability. The former would be achieved if LJ gets us to the PL along with recruiting young players from other clubs, developing them into the best they can be and that’s why LJ has signed so many players - many of them go straight out on loan - it makes me smile when he gets criticised for doing just that. Some fans just don’t fully grasp what the SL strategy is...........

Hopefully they’ll become good enough to be a viable option for the match day squad. If not they can move on to a smaller club thereby retreaving some of the intial fee or maybe even making a profit.

Imv SL has set LJ a tough task. He wants to see progress season on season but all the while with the transfers hand brake half on.......

I understand exactly what SL's strategy is. But all the boom bust sequences are having a very negative effect on the core of the matter.

These poor runs are seriously hindering the introduction of Academy players into the first team.

We have Vyner on loan when he could have had game time with us.

Joe Morrell and Walsh are in limbo, neither getting game time here or on loan.

There are several others like Rory Holden, Max O'Leary, Pring, Opi Edwards to name by a few, who should be at worst, on the bench and getting precious minutes on the pitch.

A serious hindrance to one of the most important of the Five Pillars. Would Alan Dicks have been as successful as he was if Merrick, Gow, Richie, Tainton had been shunted out on loan or ignored for first team selection in the same way?

[exAtyeoMax]

3 hours ago, ForeverRes said:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-city-need-unity-not-2099297.amp?__twitter_impression=true

It appears she is also bemused by the negativity surrounding City at the moment. Despite us actually not doing too badly. 

I like how the Johnson out brigade try and dress it up like we're in some sort of crisis and that Johnson has done a terrible/ inadequate job since he arrived... whilst most onlookers who aren't wrapped up in the Johnson in/ out saga, actually suggest we're not going to badly - all things considered (but the LJ outers don't like to consider all facts, because it does fit their argument. 

Has Michelle Owen read the in-depth discussions and debate on here about tactics, performances, signings and loss of form (both good and bad) or is she just basing her opinion on hearsay or twitter, and the league table, to form a judgement?

[spudski]

I honestly don't know why certain fans keep going on about LJ...and even saying 'THEY WOULDN'T HAVE APPOINTED HIM'.... etc, etc.

The fact is...those fans aren't SL. They don't choose who's going to be our manager.

They have no idea of contracts, financial restraints, the inner workings of the Club. It's all guess work.

They take snippets, watch the games, then try to produce intricate details about how we are running the club, what we are doing wrong etc...yet are not privy to any details that would justify such comments. You have to know everything from the inside. Fans don't.

It's obvious why LJ is coach here...because SL likes him, can work with him, trusts him, believes in him, and LJ has gained his trust over many years...and agreed to a blueprint that SL has set out.

It's very obvious from our recruitment across the Club, from top to bottom...that SL wants people he can work with, likes, trusts and has a particular 'DNA' for want of a better word, that fits with his preference.

We've had managers, coaches, staff, players etc, that have 'rocked the boat'...and they have all moved on.

SL wants stability and wants to work with people he can trust and likes.

Now they may not be to peoples liking...and they may not have the best credentials...but that's what he wants. It's obvious to see.

So when talking about people we employ...players, staff etc...it's always worth taking in mind, that it's often a certain 'fit' that is required to be employed by this club, even if a staff member or player is considerably talented. If they don't 'fit'....they won't be employed.

I've heard it from Scouts...we have pinpointed players...then gone forensic on them. If they don't tick certain box's, we won't employ them...regardless of talent.

It's the same across the Club...from top to bottom. Obviously errors get made...and people don't work out...especially if their attitude isn't right. But all in all...it's about the person that fits Bristol City FC's philosophy...and more importantly SL's.

[AppyDAZE]

We'll moan if we want we'll moan we're Otib we'll moan if we want. Now keep your cute little nose out of it. Is BCFC the team she supports? No, didn't think so

[exAtyeoMax]

25 minutes ago, spudski said:

I honestly don't know why certain fans keep going on about LJ...and even saying 'THEY WOULDN'T HAVE APPOINTED HIM'.... etc, etc.

The fact is...those fans aren't SL. They don't choose who's going to be our manager.

They have no idea of contracts, financial restraints, the inner workings of the Club. It's all guess work.

They take snippets, watch the games, then try to produce intricate details about how we are running the club, what we are doing wrong etc...yet are not privy to any details that would justify such comments. You have to know everything from the inside. Fans don't.

It's obvious why LJ is coach here...because SL likes him, can work with him, trusts him, believes in him, and LJ has gained his trust over many years...and agreed to a blueprint that SL has set out.

It's very obvious from our recruitment across the Club, from top to bottom...that SL wants people he can work with, likes, trusts and has a particular 'DNA' for want of a better word, that fits with his preference.

We've had managers, coaches, staff, players etc, that have 'rocked the boat'...and they have all moved on.

SL wants stability and wants to work with people he can trust and likes.

Now they may not be to peoples liking...and they may not have the best credentials...but that's what he wants. It's obvious to see.

So when talking about people we employ...players, staff etc...it's always worth taking in mind, that it's often a certain 'fit' that is required to be employed by this club, even if a staff member or player is considerably talented. If they don't 'fit'....they won't be employed.

I've heard it from Scouts...we have pinpointed players...then gone forensic on them. If they don't tick certain box's, we won't employ them...regardless of talent.

It's the same across the Club...from top to bottom. Obviously errors get made...and people don't work out...especially if their attitude isn't right. But all in all...it's about the person that fits Bristol City FC's philosophy...and more importantly SL's.

I thought that was the whole concept of a forum. Of course it’s going to be fans’ opinions. The subject around LJ’s appointment has been done to death on here, I think the majority know why he is here etc., but people are still entitled to air their opinions about team selection, tactics etc and even if they think he is right for the job. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Bob, changed the word to profit, because that’s more relevant.  Hope you don’t mind.

Heres our players 25 and under.  I certainly don’t see any trio of players generating the same profit as Bryan, Flint and Reid.

The total is £17m, Adelakun tbc.

Np Dave

Was simply thinking , irrelevant of recruitment price - 

Where the funds are coming from to allow us to

a) Recruit / replace 

and

b) Reduce shortfalls elsewhere

Dont See it myself atm ......and SL will be digging deep again ...... but that’s not the plan is it ....

[Natchfever]

58 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Has Michelle Owen read the in-depth discussions and debate on here about tactics, performances, signings and loss of form (both good and bad) or is she just basing her opinion on hearsay or twitter, and the league table, to form a judgement?

Like most Sky reporters/pundits on Championship matters, I would strongly suggest the latter....

[JoeAman08]

I get both arguments, I really do but truth is that LJ himself has been pretty much average in his time here and that is why we get these arguments. 

We have no doubt improved the club with LJ at the helm but how much of that is up to him? I genuinely do not know. 

We have at times played some amazing football. Why can’t we sustain it? 

Why can we go 10 without a win but also 10 without a loss in the same season? 

Why can LJ turn some players into 10m players(Reid, Flint, Bryan) that we never throught would be but then turn 4-5m(Diedhiou, Baker)players into players who looks so uncomfortable? 

The only defence I have for LJ is that for his first couple seasons it was like someone was recruiting for him. While this season he recruited players he feels more comfortable with. Why the change? I also do not know but maybe LJ is finally a bit more in controlof the players coming in? Was always going to be tough replacing Bryan, Flint and Reid but think we did ok there and most did expect midtable.

I guess while we always have these questions about LJ he will always be marmite. For me, the time is near where we need to decide if LJ has taken us as far as he can. This winless streak needs to end soon(5-6 is ok when you aren’t a promotion side) and he needs to avoid any longer than it is currently. I’d be willing to give him another summer if he can steer us to a similar position as last season without the 8+ winless streaks. 

Not everyone will agree and that is fair because like I said LJ does something amazing and then follows if up with something inexplicably poor. If he finds more consistency then the questions will go away. I know it is 8 wins in 35 or whatever but most of that is last season. New team, more experience and different opposition and scenarios. I can only look at this season on its own and as it stands it is where I expected and we haven’t gone 8-10 winless yet. He isn’t far off that mind and I am getting impatient because this is not a team lacking in quality. Even if we lined up the top 6 in six straight games I’d expect at least a win and 2 draws so no excuse going much more than 6 without a win

[spudski]

11 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I thought that was the whole concept of a forum. Of course it’s going to be fans’ opinions. The subject around LJ’s appointment has been done to death on here, I think the majority know why he is here etc., but people are still entitled to air their opinions about team selection, tactics etc and even if they think he is right for the job. 

Indeed they are...but it's all a bit futile isn't it?

It's a bit like watching video's of Brain Surgery every week, reading some accounts etc...then giving a deep and meaningful post about why you would have done it differently...without knowing everything behind the scenes and circumstances etc.

However passionate, it's all a bit of a waste of time if you think about it. We've all done it.

[robin_unreliant]

3 hours ago, ForeverRes said:

But you won't recognise us being plagued with injury during the majority of that time, you won't recognising us not investing in January, you won't recognise us selling our best players in the summer, you won't recognise that we have a fairly new team and it'll take time.

Thats my point! It's all well and good referencing win %'s! But you can't ignore the many variables that have contributed 

You seem to ignore the fact that for 25 of the 37 games (8 wins) we hadn't sold our 3 best players. Suggesting the bad run in 2018 is down to asset stripping the squad is way too generous to LJ.

[BobBobSuperBob]

6 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

You seem to ignore the fact that for 25 of the 37 games (8 wins) we hadn't sold our 3 best players. Suggesting the bad run in 2018 is down to asset stripping the squad is way too generous to LJ.

But .... but .... there’s other reasons

and now ..........reasons that we grunts arnt even privy too 

 

[Shtanley]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Bob, changed the word to profit, because that’s more relevant.  Hope you don’t mind.

Heres our players 25 and under.  I certainly don’t see any trio of players generating the same profit as Bryan, Flint and Reid.

The total is £17m, Adelakun tbc.

Why does it only have to be a trio? FWIW Kelly could go for Flint and Bryan's fees combined.

I think we should be very optimistic about the current crop of "youngsters" we have.

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, Sturny said:

Random thought, since SL eyes are set onto top 6. If we finish below that with LJ in charge this season and potentially the next. Does anyone believe that'll be enough for SL to pull the trigger? 

As he hasn't potentially met the requirement SL might have asked? 

I think our general "direction of travel" will occupy his thoughts: are we going forward (improving), going backward (getting worse), or are we stuck, stagnating even. 

On the one hand, I think SL will cut LJ some slack this season because he had to sell Reid, Bryan and Flint and it won't be every summer where that much talent is lost; on the other, this is part of what is expected now - that we sell our best player/s at the top of their value and replace with the next young, hungry players with potential and at the same time the team continues to improve and climb the table. Or at the very least, doesn't suffer from the talent drain.

In the comments I quoted the other day, SL only said look to (get in the top six), not expect to. There is a difference.

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

6 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

Why does it only have to be a trio? FWIW Kelly could go for Flint and Bryan's fees combined.

I think we should be very optimistic about the current crop of "youngsters" we have.

Genuine q Shtanley

LK clearly has a good market value even now

Im not offay with all our youngsters (You appear to have a decent knowledge)  but are there any as obvious as LK coming through ?

Genuine q ? , I’m interested - a genuine assessment rather than ‘hopes’ would be valuable

I don’t know , but people talk about Morrell , Andrews etc etc and I think underestimate the jump from looking ok in Academy or even conference , L1 etc to holding down a place in the modern Championship

Id be amazed and totally delighted if we can regularly produce players anywhere near to Kelly’s potential ? 

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

All of these Johnson threads prove one thing in my opinion, he should never have been appointed in the first place. He was always going to divide the fanbase, like he did as a player. And this is from somebody that rarely criticises him.

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

A simple question for all of you / anyone .......

You are the owner of a football Club , you want the very best coach to maximise your clubs potential and investment

Either

NOW

or in February 2016

From all the coaches in the World who you could reasonably hope to attract ........

Would any of you have chosen ........Lee Johnson

Anyone ?

No takers at present ?

[Davefevs]

22 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

Why does it only have to be a trio? FWIW Kelly could go for Flint and Bryan's fees combined.

I think we should be very optimistic about the current crop of "youngsters" we have.

@BobBobSuperBob - you beat me to the question!.

Stan - if we were to sell him in January on the back of 20+ impressive games for us this season, England u20 captain, etc, what would you reckon we’d get for him?

I’ll have a punt - £4m + add-ons (rising to £10m based on appearances and potential cap) +20% sell-on.

Peversely, If he’s still here next August, it’s because the Prem teams don’t fancy him enough and his value may decline.

 

[JoeAman08]

32 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Genuine q Shtanley

LK clearly has a good market value even now

Im not offay with all our youngsters (You appear to have a decent knowledge)  but are there any as obvious as LK coming through ?

Genuine q ? , I’m interested - a genuine assessment rather than ‘hopes’ would be valuable

I don’t know , but people talk about Morrell , Andrews etc etc and I think underestimate the jump from looking ok in Academy or even conference , L1 etc to holding down a place in the modern Championship

Id be amazed and totally delighted if we can regularly produce players anywhere near to Kelly’s potential ? 

I think our best prospects after LK are ones we bought to beef up out academy. Jonny Smith, Bakinson, Taylor Moore and McCoulskey and then Vyner who is for me our only true academy prospect outside LK in that 18-21 range that has champ potential. That said every one I mentioned I am not sure has top 6 champ or above potential but I am not as clued in as some others. LJ and Tinnion do seem to progress young players tbf. Think through all te questions about the club, don’t think you can argue they are getting it right in our u23 players. 

[stephenkibby.]

3 hours ago, ForeverRes said:

No I haven't. I'm just bringing to your attention the reasons why perhaps, things are the way they are. 

You don't even consider any other variable. 

Would you suggest that it's unreasonable if we finish mid table? Because that's the kind of form we're showing. And all things considered, that's probably about right. 

You think were showing mid table form?  Hope  your right.

I think we will be flirting with the bottom six by Christmas.

 

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Has Michelle Owen read the in-depth discussions and debate on here about tactics, performances, signings and loss of form (both good and bad) or is she just basing her opinion on hearsay or twitter, and the league table, to form a judgement?

The irony is that, whilst appealing for "unity" and criticising what she sees as "negativity," in 11 paragraphs the woman from Sky spends almost half her time (5/11 paragraphs) writing about a handful of fans close to where she was sat, and the verbal diarrhea of Twitter (which may or may not be people that go to games, or indeed may or may not be City fans), when she could have chosen to write about S82 that offered vocal encouragement, and the dear old happy-clappers that stay behind even after defeats and applaud the team off. She could, also, have found many grounded, reasonable opinions on City on Twitter,  if she had wanted to. They are out there, as they are on here.

She was absorbed by some negativity of a very small section of our support, who themselves were absorbed by the current failings of FD.

How many paragraphs has she knocked out on the 300 that went to Rotherham and got behind the team?

[SStandUp]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Bob, changed the word to profit, because that’s more relevant.  Hope you don’t mind.

Heres our players 25 and under.  I certainly don’t see any trio of players generating the same profit as Bryan, Flint and Reid.

The total is £17m, Adelakun tbc.

When we first signed flint did you think he was gunna be worst £6m ... webster might be

When we first saw Bobby did you think he's going to get us £10m .. someone like Eisa might.

And kelly...

There are 3 names, who could potentially be that next £25m. But ofcourse you're not going to get that every year. 

It took 5 years for flint and Reid (since his first appearance) to be worth that. 

[SStandUp]

1 hour ago, robin_unreliant said:

You seem to ignore the fact that for 25 of the 37 games (8 wins) we hadn't sold our 3 best players. Suggesting the bad run in 2018 is down to asset stripping the squad is way too generous to LJ.

Last year when we were second and on that cup run, we were punching above our weight. 

Dont let that be a genuine marker of success. We finished mid table, because we are a mid table club. 

[Rich_s]

I’ve seen enough of LJ, tactics, signings etc to believe without question that he will not realise SL ambition of premiership football. It’s an opinion, my opinion and if it suits people to call me negative then they’re entitled to their opinion . I certainly won’t lose any sleep as I’ll be safe in the knowledge that those who know me know I’m pretty chilled, optimistic with a balanced sense of judgment.

[Rich_s]

I’ve seen enough of LJ, tactics, signings etc to believe without question that he will not realise SL ambition of premiership football. It’s an opinion, my opinion and if it suits people to call me negative then they’re entitled to their opinion . I certainly won’t lose any sleep as I’ll be safe in the knowledge that those who know me know I’m pretty chilled, optimistic with a balanced sense of judgment.