Jump to content
IGNORED

Michelle Owen - Unity not Negativity


SStandUp

Recommended Posts

I'm neither in the in or out brigade but alot has been made about our form over 37 games. 

Extrapolating that over 46 games gives:

10 wins

19 losses

17 draws 

Giving 47 pts over a season. We have a mid table budget (13th biggest?) So we are currently considerably underperforming as you'll be close to or relegated with that amount of points, seeing as some use our budget as an indicator of where we should be.

Anyone know the results over the last 46 games to give balance? I wouldn't be surprised if it put us between 11th and 14th last season. As this would point to being in line with budget constraints.

Excluding last season and only taking this season only into account we currently have a ratio of 33.33% for wins, draws and losses which would extrapolate to: 

Wins 15

Draws 15

Losses 15

And 1 game that could be any one result. So a range of 60 - 63 pts over the season. This is less than the 67 pts collected last season and would place us between 12th and 14th based on last season, roughly in line with our budget however failing to meet the argued point of season on season improvement.  

Based on recent results then we will do well to finish in the top half, its debatable if we'll finish in a better position but roughly in line with our budget. Early indcations are that we replaced the players that were sold with players of similar quality.

I'm sure as a club we are looking at season on season improvements and it will be interesting to see this season pan out.  It's very possible that we are moving into the realm of whether the manager has taken us as far as he can either with our budget or through his own limitations. 

Simply analysing the data and basing all this on our current performance which is all you can do to indicate roughly where we are and probably direction.

Personal opinion? Just because we are probably performing in line with our budget constraints does not  makes it all ok and we should just accept we're going to just be midtable fodder.  How you use and spend your budget can be just as important as how big it is. (No, i'm not going to qoute that cliche!). We're doing ok with our budget and the players we are bringing in but there's also a fair bit of room for improvement which I think aligns with our recent transfer record.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

You again missed the point regarding recruitment and a model of play.

In the link you posted the word identity is frequently mentioned. In essence identity, what the team is and its principles should be easily definable by fans.

Could you define what the playing identity of BCFC is seasons into Mr Johnson's tenure?

Ok, I'll try.

Last season it looked like we tried to play a high(ish) press whilst also trying to play a quick counter along with a quick passing game through the transitions. Basically, we constantly changed what our game plan was depending on the opposition.

That is a fine way of doing things IF (that's a big if btw) our normal way of playing isn't working or has been negated by the oppositions tactics. To me, I don't think we should constantly change shape or tactics before any game. As Shankly said, let them worry about us.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, ForeverRes said:

I don't care about the reasons why they left. 

I'm just saying, we lost our 3 better players, progressing is made harder. Hence we're hardly setting the world alight.

Im comfortable with our off field strategy. For now, being a stable championship side means we can really nail all the off field stuff (academy infrastructure, training ground etc.) 

Because we aren't quite ready for prem yet. 

The reasons our better players left is pretty important I’d have thought?

Also, as was painted on the dressing room wall ‘If not now, when?’

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, RED4LIFE said:

Ok, I'll try.

Last season it looked like we tried to play a high(ish) press whilst also trying to play a quick counter along with a quick passing game through the transitions. Basically, we constantly changed what our game plan was depending on the opposition.

That is a fine way of doing things IF (that's a big if btw) our normal way of playing isn't working or has been negated by the oppositions tactics. To me, I don't think we should constantly change shape or tactics before any game. As Shankly said, let them worry about us.

 

In your first sentence you highlight what may have been the model of play. Constant change of game plan also due to the players recruited is not a model of play. A playing identity alters little - Constant change is not a playing identity.

Earlier in the post I mentioned Bournemouth and Man City. I could have also mentioned  Cardiff or Fulham or Wolves. Each side there does not flip flop through constant change. Each side recruited and trained players to fit football that alters little. 

In regards to high pressing Bristol City this season and last had players that do not/cannot not press efficiently.  Pressure on the football via pressing is often a principle of play e.g Man City players are recruited to fit that principle. All players have a high defensive tactical intensity (DTI). Think about Bristol City? Famara has a low DTI. Famara is/was Bristol City's main front man ... If your high press was part of the teams identity Famara the sides most expensive forward  is a liability to any team wanting to press aggressively and high.

I could do similar for other players and elements of what you felt was Bristol City's identity.

Three seasons in Mr Johnson is failing to clear put playing principles into the teams approach. A sort of style is there but it is not defined, it is not bold, it is certainly not cohesive, it muddled thinking ... That after tens of millions spent, tens of players recruited, seasons in I will view as mediocre for a Manager who frequently informs fans how important dna, identity, the project is. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Reid, Flint, Bryan, Mags, Duric, Engval plus others out = plus £26.55m in

Weimann, Webster, Eisa, Adelakun (2nd div strikers) = £8.9m out

IMO we have lost a lot of goal power/threat but the bank manager will be happy; we have got lucky in a few games to put us in a elevated position, as the next ten game will no doubt show.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

Thanks

Think you’ve just proved my point

What point is that Bob?

You select a period of time and matches and highlighted the hard evidence without considering the variables of the period as FR pointed out.

I dare say that there would be plenty of clubs throughout the PL and EFL that if a critical poster wanted to could find a similar period and use it negatively - as you have done.

It means nothing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

We buy young and nurture them? Djuric was 26 when he joined us, Pisano was 30 when he joined us, O’Neil joined us when he was 34, Hegeler joined us when he was 28, Fammy joined us when he was 24 and for £5.3m -“young/cheapish” - Patterson joined when he was 24, Baker was 24 when he joined us, Bailey Wright was 24 when he joined us, Taylor was 26 when he joined us, Weimann was nearly 27 when he joined us, Watkins was 27 when he joined us, Hunt was 27 when he joined us, Maenpaa was 33 when he joined us.....none of these are ‘young’ in football terms.....anyway, I was determined not to join in with this thread, especially when you started it with the views of a Sky Sports reporter...it must be gospel then! And then @BobBobSuperBob and @Davefevs basically ‘owned’ the thread and put forward arguments that were hard to argue with, no matter how hard you tried....but ‘we buy young/cheapish’ and then we ‘coach and nurture’ them?! What?! I guess I just had to comment, damn...

Indeed.

We have also borrowed, or loaned, "established/expensive," such as Baker, Tomlin, Odemwingie, Matthews, Cotterill, Kallas. And also "young/expensive" with Tammy.

The buying "young/cheapish" has been done and talked up a bit, but it has only been a part of a mixed bag approach. It is interesting to me how this "young/cheapish" model appears to be imprinted on the minds of some, like the OP. A very selective view of things, as your post illustrates.

There are some people that are against LJ regardless, and find the facts and the "facts" to support their belief; and there are others who are for him regardless, and find the facts and the "facts" that support their belief. And no amount of debate on here will swing or convince people firmly in either camp to change their minds. Not even with the support of someone from Sky Sports.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

We buy young and nurture them? Djuric was 26 when he joined us, Pisano was 30 when he joined us, O’Neil joined us when he was 34, Hegeler joined us when he was 28, Fammy joined us when he was 24 and for £5.3m -“young/cheapish” - Patterson joined when he was 24, Baker was 24 when he joined us, Bailey Wright was 24 when he joined us, Taylor was 26 when he joined us, Weimann was nearly 27 when he joined us, Watkins was 27 when he joined us, Hunt was 27 when he joined us, Maenpaa was 33 when he joined us.....none of these are ‘young’ in football terms.....anyway, I was determined not to join in with this thread, especially when you started it with the views of a Sky Sports reporter...it must be gospel then! And then @BobBobSuperBob and @Davefevs basically ‘owned’ the thread and put forward arguments that were hard to argue with, no matter how hard you tried....but ‘we buy young/cheapish’ and then we ‘coach and nurture’ them?! What?! I guess I just had to comment, damn...

24 not young? 

Secondly, it's quite covenient how you don't mention ANY all the young lads we have bought. I really don't have the any to reference all names and ages. But I can garuntee the young lads (<23) significantly outway the bit of experience we've bought in. 

Aden Flint was 24 when he joined us, 5 years later, sold for £6m... that's the financial model we're working towards. Even Johnson and Lansdown say so, are you arguing with the guys in charge? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Moor2Sea said:

Didn’t Brentford lose a load of their best players... and then finish above us? Maybe wrong.

Accoding to loads on here Flint was a donkey, Bobby was a one season wonder and Joe was never a full back. On that basis it wouldn’t have taken much to improve on what left. Somehow, LJ seems to have achieved it, leaving us even more leaderless on the pitch, physically and mentally weaker and without anyone who offers an aerial goal threat.

To be fair we have got a lot of wingers now though, just a pity we have no one in the middle for them to cross to. 

 

And you truly believe Flint was a donkey, Reid wasn't a key player and Bryan is easily replaceable. 

Despire people with better football brains then anyone on this forum, signing all 3 for £25m

Oh don't worry about that, some Bitter Deluded City fans said they aren't even that good. Laughable, truly laughable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Bristol is red said:

......

Personal opinion? Just because we are probably performing in line with our budget constraints does not  makes it all ok and we should just accept we're going to just be midtable fodder.  How you use and spend your budget can be just as important as how big it is. 

Well put and sums up my belief that LJ has taken us as far as his ability can. I’m not anti-LJ but bored with the style of football and the feeling of going around in circles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

We buy young and nurture them? Djuric was 26 when he joined us, Pisano was 30 when he joined us, O’Neil joined us when he was 34, Hegeler joined us when he was 28, Fammy joined us when he was 24 and for £5.3m -“young/cheapish” - Patterson joined when he was 24, Baker was 24 when he joined us, Bailey Wright was 24 when he joined us, Taylor was 26 when he joined us, Weimann was nearly 27 when he joined us, Watkins was 27 when he joined us, Hunt was 27 when he joined us, Maenpaa was 33 when he joined us.....none of these are ‘young’ in football terms.....anyway, I was determined not to join in with this thread, especially when you started it with the views of a Sky Sports reporter...it must be gospel then! And then @BobBobSuperBob and @Davefevs basically ‘owned’ the thread and put forward arguments that were hard to argue with, no matter how hard you tried....but ‘we buy young/cheapish’ and then we ‘coach and nurture’ them?! What?! I guess I just had to comment, damn...

Can you answer me this.

Would you expect any team in the world to be better after losing three of their best players? 

I'll reference it again. If Chelsea lost Hazard, Kante and Alonso (3 of chelseas better players) - would you expect them to get better? 

Do you then expect Bristol City to get better after losing Reid, Flint and Bryan (3 of Bristol City's better players) 

If you say yes, then you're absolutely delusional.

If you agree and say no, why are you so against Johnson and why are you not happy/ in disbelief over our current position.  

We have an average team, with young players who have potential and at times show this potential. But with an average team, you're going to get the good and bad. The quicker you realise we are average in terms of playing staff quality, the quicker you'll come to accept the current Bristol City. And the quicker you'll stop spouting sh*t on this forum along with @BobBobSuperBob .... 

i won't tag @Davefevs in that because he actually makes some decent/ rational points. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, ForeverRes said:

Can you answer me this.

Would you expect any team in the world to be better after losing three of their best players? 

I'll reference it again. If Chelsea lost Hazard, Kante and Alonso (3 of chelseas better players) - would you expect them to get better? 

Do you then expect Bristol City to get better after losing Reid, Flint and Bryan (3 of Bristol City's better players) 

If you say yes, then you're absolutely delusional.

If you agree and say no, why are you so against Johnson and why are you not happy/ in disbelief over our current position.  

We have an average team, with young players who have potential and at times show this potential. But with an average team, you're going to get the good and bad. The quicker you realise we are average in terms of playing staff quality, the quicker you'll come to accept the current Bristol City. And the quicker you'll stop spouting sh*t on this forum along with @BobBobSuperBob .... 

i won't tag @Davefevs in that because he actually makes some decent/ rational points. 

You’re getting personal again - calling my opinions and those of @BobBobSuperBob‘spouting shit’ is unwarranted - you just chuck abuse when anyone disagrees with you....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

You’re getting personal again - calling my opinions and those of @BobBobSuperBob‘spouting shit’ is unwarranted - you just chuck abuse when anyone disagrees with you....

Can you answer the question I proposed to you. 

Because if you can't, the spouting sh*t comment is warranted. 

So have a think, any team in the world loses 3 of their best players, would you expect them to be better or worse? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Trueredsupporte said:

Why don't you answer the question about City's identity earlier?

City's identity is a tough one.

I think last year we were quite clearly trying to be a high tempo team that presses off the ball and we're fast through transitions on the ball. 

It was identified during the summer that the high energy press system isn't realistic for 46 games a season. And Johnson said during pre season that we'll see a difference, mainly we press during periods. 

I think on the ball we've tried to become a possession based team, which we've seen positive signs off. The more you got the ball, the less time you spend chasing it. Everytime we get the ball, we don't look to attach with intent, for me that's a plan. We choose our moments. You look at teams like Fulham, they would run teams ragged. 

Although we've seen signs and decent periods, it's very inconsistent. But you got to remember this is a fairly new team in terms of personnel. They are still learning, last years team was 2 years in the making. 

What we've seen this year, is a team who clearly have a preferred way of playing, but not neccisarily the quality or confidence to play like that all the time! Hence we see the route one stuff when we come under a litter pressure.  But we will only get better. Did you see Jack Hunts tweet after Wednesday? Basically saying we are a new team who are always learning. You can't argue with that. 

I'm hoping the consistency will come with more game time and more time spent under the coaching of LJ. Because let's face it, we saw the way Johnson wants his teams to play last year, it was obvious. I just think this group need more time as we are transitioning again!

The Wigan and Rotherham games were unacceptable, terrible terrible football. I think players need to take some responsibility, but Johnson also needs to identify teams that playing our preferred way against will be tough. 

Apart from those two, we've been better, but not spectacular. The Wednesday game we played some nice stuff. It's just bringing all that together now. I think we lack some quality compared to last year, Reid was sensational and Bryan was a tremendous outlet. But we'll keep getting better, even though I think the odd Wigan game will still happen.

I think that's a fair ish summation mate? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, ForeverRes said:

And you truly believe Flint was a donkey, Reid wasn't a key player and Bryan is easily replaceable. 

Despire people with better football brains then anyone on this forum, signing all 3 for £25m

Oh don't worry about that, some Bitter Deluded City fans said they aren't even that good. Laughable, truly laughable.

I think you need to try and read the post more carefully. I said ‘according to loads on here’. You jumped to the conclusion that I supported the views expressed by loads of OTiBers

I think if you were an OTIB regular you certainly wouldn’t conclude that I thought Flint was a donkey. Rather, I suspect you would conclude that I was totally deluded in that I thought he was irreplaceable and we sold him far to cheaply given the impact of his loss on our team.

That aside, really interested in any views you have on Brentford’s regular end of season loss of their star players and the fact that they consistently out-perform us?

Also be interested on your views on the lack of any aerial goal threat and our abundance of wingers. Be useful for us bitter deluded fans to try and get a decent perspective from a far more knowledgable football person on our transfer policy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/10/2018 at 10:03, ForeverRes said:

Oh come on. Stop dressing it up like I said.

The reality is, people don't like Johnson. They love hammering the bloke when things aren't going as they like, without taking in any other variables.

All in all it's creating a horrendous atmosphere/ vibe around AG.

Maybe it would be better if he left. 

I think when a manager has taken us on ouor worst losing run in history as well as won 8 of however many games since last December -  to be fair, if this was Cotts under SL he also definately wouldn't of been sacked.

Even this run since that Wolves game at Molineux - the 8 wins, who were they against? Birmingham, QPR (shot on confidence and at an all time low also when we played them), Wednesday are financially crippled by FFP and wage cuts, we've spent almost 10x the amount Blackburn have in the past two years, Ipswich have been in a mess since McCarthy has gone. The only proper competitive team in that mix where I can say we played well, and dserved to win against respectable opposition and deserved the result was Swansea - more of that please!

I'll be clear, I don't have a chip in my shoulder with regards to LJ, he was a decent player, and is a decent if not great coach. But manager? Millen, was a good coach - but he did't have an average of £12m per season to plow into signings. We ended up with Stead, Pitman, and Woolford for a combined £1m. My issue is that we're not much better in terms of quality than when Cotts left - in fact I'd still take some of the likes of Williams, Ayling, Elliott, Wilbs, Freeman - now. That's not even getting into the fact that Cotts was manager during the formative years of players that have gotten us circa £25m in transfer fees this past summer.

We've spent £40m on players that havent made us any kind of profit since Cotts left us that January back in 2016. Only losses. - Is that Sustainable?

If this was any other manager - not LJ - I'd be just as much if not even more critical, as he's still young for a manager - but the issue is, he doesn't seem to be learning, and as the formative years of his managerial career, he needs to. In fact I'd go as far to say that he's now too concerned at countering other teams than having them worry about us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ForeverRes said:

City's identity is a tough one.

I think last year we were quite clearly trying to be a high tempo team that presses off the ball and we're fast through transitions on the ball. 

It was identified during the summer that the high energy press system isn't realistic for 46 games a season. And Johnson said during pre season that we'll see a difference, mainly we press during periods. 

I think on the ball we've tried to become a possession based team, which we've seen positive signs off. The more you got the ball, the less time you spend chasing it. Everytime we get the ball, we don't look to attach with intent, for me that's a plan. We choose our moments. You look at teams like Fulham, they would run teams ragged. 

Although we've seen signs and decent periods, it's very inconsistent. But you got to remember this is a fairly new team in terms of personnel. They are still learning, last years team was 2 years in the making. 

What we've seen this year, is a team who clearly have a preferred way of playing, but not neccisarily the quality or confidence to play like that all the time! Hence we see the route one stuff when we come under a litter pressure.  But we will only get better. Did you see Jack Hunts tweet after Wednesday? Basically saying we are a new team who are always learning. You can't argue with that. 

I'm hoping the consistency will come with more game time and more time spent under the coaching of LJ. Because let's face it, we saw the way Johnson wants his teams to play last year, it was obvious. I just think this group need more time as we are transitioning again!

The Wigan and Rotherham games were unacceptable, terrible terrible football. I think players need to take some responsibility, but Johnson also needs to identify teams that playing our preferred way against will be tough. 

Apart from those two, we've been better, but not spectacular. The Wednesday game we played some nice stuff. It's just bringing all that together now. I think we lack some quality compared to last year, Reid was sensational and Bryan was a tremendous outlet. But we'll keep getting better, even though I think the odd Wigan game will still happen.

I think that's a fair ish summation mate? 

Bristol City cannot be compared to Fulham. They monopolised possession via short passing making thousands of more passes than Bristol City. They passed (in all directions) teams ragged.That was  a principle. Bristol City had a keeper that regularly kicked the ball off the park, had a average passing length similar (-1m) to Cardiff's making similar numbers of long balls. That is not a team intending to keep the ball as a principle. 

So after Mr Johnson being in charge for over two years your articulation of Bristol City identity is a tough one, very inconsistent, sometimes short, sometimes route one with its most expensive striker unable to play a high tempo game and take part in pressing due to his lack of athleticism!

There are teams that press season long. Liverpool press high and in units. It requires commitment and players with incredibly high fitness levels allied to the mental toughness to do it. Like Fulham its is a principle of their play, its part of their identity. Recruitment fits the model of play. Bristol City have squad members who cannot play high tempo football and its associated pressing variants.

The inconsistency in approach you identify is a reflection of its Manager, his failure to nail down fundamentals. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, ForeverRes said:

Can you answer the question I proposed to you. 

Because if you can't, the spouting sh*t comment is warranted. 

So have a think, any team in the world loses 3 of their best players, would you expect them to be better or worse? 

Can't agree because one man's ***t is another man's view.

I agree with some of what you say, but then again I can clearly see Bob & BS4's point of view.

Does that make my comment only 50 percent ***t?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Moor2Sea said:

I think you need to try and read the post more carefully. I said ‘according to loads on here’. You jumped to the conclusion that I supported the views expressed by loads of OTiBers

I think if you were an OTIB regular you certainly wouldn’t conclude that I thought Flint was a donkey. Rather, I suspect you would conclude that I was totally deluded in that I thought he was irreplaceable and we sold him far to cheaply given the impact of his loss on our team.

That aside, really interested in any views you have on Brentford’s regular end of season loss of their star players and the fact that they consistently out-perform us?

Also be interested on your views on the lack of any aerial goal threat and our abundance of wingers. Be useful for us bitter deluded fans to try and get a decent perspective from a far more knowledgable football person on our transfer policy.

With regards to aerial threat, isn't famara meant to be that? He looked it last year, but he's terribly out of form. 

Abundance of wingers? Odowda, Eliasson, Watkins, Adekulan? Ok we've got maybe 1 too many? 

Brentfords recruitment has been very good. I'll give them that. Better than ours. We've tried to follow suit dipping into the foreign market, and have had some success, but also some shockers (Engvall). But we've also had some goodies from England (Brownhill, Odowda)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Fuber said:

I think when a manager has taken us on ouor worst losing run in history as well as won 8 of however many games since last December -  to be fair, if this was Cotts under SL he also definately wouldn't of been sacked.

Even this run since that Wolves game at Molineux - the 8 wins, who were they against? Birmingham, QPR (shot on confidence and at an all time low also when we played them), Wednesday are financially crippled by FFP and wage cuts, we've spent almost 10x the amount Blackburn have in the past two years, Ipswich have been in a mess since McCarthy has gone. The only proper competitive team in that mix where I can say we played well, and dserved to win against respectable opposition and deserved the result was Swansea - more of that please!

I'll be clear, I don't have a chip in my shoulder with regards to LJ, he was a decent player, and is a decent if not great coach. But manager? Millen, was a good coach - but he did't have an average of £12m per season to plow into signings. We ended up with Stead, Pitman, and Woolford for a combined £1m. My issue is that we're not much better in terms of quality than when Cotts left - in fact I'd still take some of the likes of Williams, Ayling, Elliott, Wilbs, Freeman - now. That's not even getting into the fact that Cotts was manager during the formative years of players that have gotten us circa £25m in transfer fees this past summer.

We've spent £40m on players that havent made us any kind of profit since Cotts left us that January back in 2016. Only losses. - Is that Sustainable?

If this was any other manager - not LJ - I'd be just as much if not even more critical, as he's still young for a manager - but the issue is, he doesn't seem to be learning, and as the formative years of his managerial career, he needs to. In fact I'd go as far to say that he's now too concerned at countering other teams than having them worry about us.

When talking about spending. I think you should reference net spend. Spent £40m but also sold around £40m 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

Can't agree because one man's ***t is another man's view.

I agree with some of what you say, but then again I can clearly see Bob & BS4's point of view.

Does that make my comment only 50 percent ***t?

Made me laugh. 

I can understand some of their points too. However, I draw the line at people who genuinely want Johnson gone. The reasons we aren't seeing significant progress isn't down to Johnson. Does he make mistakes? Yes... but has he shown us a potential to be brilliant? Yes. Does he buy into the Bristol City philosophy yes.. does he love the club? Yes .... has he shown us to have the ability to turn a average team into a team that challenges up the top? Yes.. I can't really think of a suitable replacement for him... 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, ForeverRes said:

When talking about spending. I think you should reference net spend. Spent £40m but also sold around £40m 

I think you’ll get the argument re LJ from many on OTIB that net spend should relate to the players he has bought and then sold.  

You can of course counter with Bobby Reid, that although not signed by him, turned into a striker by him.

Its a difficult argument either way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, ForeverRes said:

Made me laugh. 

I can understand some of their points too. However, I draw the line at people who genuinely want Johnson gone. The reasons we aren't seeing significant progress isn't down to Johnson. Does he make mistakes? Yes... but has he shown us a potential to be brilliant? Yes. Does he buy into the Bristol City philosophy yes.. does he love the club? Yes .... has he shown us to have the ability to turn a average team into a team that challenges up the top? Yes.. I can't really think of a suitable replacement for him... 

 

Feeling do run high, whichever side of the 'is he the right bloke?' fence you sit.

I know this all too well after getting a 3 month ban for sticking up for Johnson and the team in April.

Ok I used a bit of naughty language at what I referred to as City "fans"

But there comes a time when you have to realise it is ALL about opinions and as long as no one gets personal about players or the manager or the posters, it's all just football chat in the end.

Keep up the good work arguing your point, and let's all remember that we are all REDS together.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Bristol City cannot be compared to Fulham. They monopolised possession via short passing making thousands of more passes than Bristol City. They passed (in all directions) teams ragged.That was  a principle. Bristol City had a keeper that regularly kicked the ball off the park, had a average passing length similar (-1m) to Cardiff's making similar numbers of long balls. That is not a team intending to keep the ball as a principle. 

So after Mr Johnson being in charge for over two years your articulation of Bristol City identity is a tough one, very inconsistent, sometimes short, sometimes route one with its most expensive striker unable to play a high tempo game and take part in pressing due to his lack of athleticism!

There are teams that press season long. Liverpool press high and in units. It requires commitment and players with incredibly high fitness levels allied to the mental toughness to do it. Like Fulham its is a principle of their play, its part of their identity. Recruitment fits the model of play. Bristol City have squad members who cannot play high tempo football and its associated pressing variants.

The inconsistency in approach you identify is a reflection of its Manager, his failure to nail down fundamentals. 

You've literally twisted every single thing I said. 

- I didn't say last year we were like Fulham, i said this year we have clearly tried to be more possession based. And referenced Fulham.

I said last years style of play and having everyone playing to the same plan was two years in the making. We ran out of steam, hence the dip in form and hence the change of approach this year (working progress).

And then I said the fact we've got a newish team, who are being introduced to a new style, may explain the inconsistencies. 

Witg regards to Liverpool, agree the press. But they press in periods. Last year we were totally relentless. And yes they recruit well? But we signed Weinmann to fit our model. Unforteantly players like Weinmann, who are also good goal scorers, they cost £10m (reference Reid) and they ain't joining Bristol City. One because bigger clubs are snapping them up, and two SL isn't anytime soon spending £10m

You look at the Swansea, WBA, Blackburn etc. games, then look at Rotherham/ Wigan. Like two different teams. Do you solely blame the manager? Or do individual players performance take any of the wrap. Agreed the inconsistencys are frustrating, but we are once again in transition and a working progress.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, ForeverRes said:

You've literally twisted every single thing I said. 

- I didn't say last year we were like Fulham, i said this year we have clearly tried to be more possession based. And referenced Fulham.

I said last years style of play and having everyone playing to the same plan was two years in the making. We ran out of steam, hence the dip in form and hence the change of approach this year (working progress).

And then I said the fact we've got a newish team, who are being introduced to a new style, may explain the inconsistencies. 

Witg regards to Liverpool, agree the press. But they press in periods. Last year we were totally relentless. And yes they recruit well? But we signed Weinmann to fit our model. Unforteantly players like Weinmann, who are also good goal scorers, they cost £10m (reference Reid) and they ain't joining Bristol City. One because bigger clubs are snapping them up, and two SL isn't anytime soon spending £10m

You look at the Swansea, WBA, Blackburn etc. games, then look at Rotherham/ Wigan. Like two different teams. Do you solely blame the manager? Or do individual players performance take any of the wrap. Agreed the inconsistencys are frustrating, but we are once again in transition and a working progress.  

No I did not literally twist everything you said. I treated your post with courtesy.

You chose to reference Fulham. A possession based team. I then highlighted using facts how paper thin the ideal of Bristol City being a possession based team last season was.

Last years style was or the one at its most successful was not two years in the making. It was due to injury, it was not down to periodized approach in training and recruitment unless you believe players like Djuric and Famara could take part in high energy pressing and transitions, everybody could not play to the same plan … It is silly that notion.  

Liverpool press in periods in games season long.

Last year we were totally relentless .. Not correct. Bristol City pressed in periods using Reid as a trigger. Bristol City frequently screened and waited for that trigger. And when Famara, Djurc and Diony were included in the team pressing was hardly relentless. 

Bristol City inconsistency is down to the Manager. If your less than well defined identity is always in flux and not rooted in fundamentals of organized attack/defence, transition to attack/defence and set pieces the team has to be inconsistent. If your recruitment does not fit those fundamentals … Inconsistency again.

City play like two differing teams because its a reflection of Mr Johnsons ideas. Clarity (a favoured word of Mr Johnson) in approach creates faster and more in depth learning, it helps players adapt quicker to new teams. 

Mr Johnson lacks clarity, so his team does .. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

No I did not literally twist everything you said. I treated your post with courtesy.

You chose to reference Fulham. A possession based team. I then highlighted using facts how paper thin the ideal of Bristol City being a possession based team last season was.

Last years style was or the one at its most successful was not two years in the making. It was due to injury, it was not down to periodized approach in training and recruitment unless you believe players like Djuric and Famara could take part in high energy pressing and transitions, everybody could not play to the same plan … It is silly that notion.  

Liverpool press in periods in games season long.

Last year we were totally relentless .. Not correct. Bristol City pressed in periods using Reid as a trigger. Bristol City frequently screened and waited for that trigger. And when Famara, Djurc and Diony were included in the team pressing was hardly relentless. 

Bristol City inconsistency is down to the Manager. If your less than well defined identity is always in flux and not rooted in fundamentals of organized attack/defence, transition to attack/defence and set pieces the team has to be inconsistent. If your recruitment does not fit those fundamentals … Inconsistency again.

City play like two differing teams because its a reflection of Mr Johnsons ideas. Clarity (a favoured word of Mr Johnson) in approach creates faster and more in depth learning, it helps players adapt quicker to new teams. 

Mr Johnson lacks clarity, so his team does .. 

 

 

Interested to know whether you were saying all this last year? 

Unless you are part of the City dressing room, I fail to understand how you would know Johnson lacks clarity. You have no idea the discussions or plans that take place. 

City pressed all over the pitch. Ofcourse it would start by Reid because he was closest to the ball, but the whole midfield pressed in waves. 

For the first half of last season, what was your thoughts? Because that was some of the best football I've seen a City team play at times. I assume it was a fluke? Because how could a guy with no plan or clarity oversee some of the best football this club has seen. 

Djuric/ Diedhou recruited as an alternative? Oh no can't be, because Johnson doesn't have a plan B. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...