Time to look at Lee in a positive light

[MelksRed]

8 hours ago, Hampshire Red said:

Twots!

After last nights game you can easily identify those that went to the game (moderately positive) with those that watched on a tiny screen, aka sky , red button some idiots on otib are apparently criticizing Bristol City players after; a) a win for us, b) a good start to the season c) a positive mood amongst 90% of real fans.

Who are these negative twots on a forum who seek to undermine our OWN players? . As the saying goes who needs enemies....

To be fair I'm often astounded as to how well we seem to play on TV......when I'm at the games (home and away) it can almost hear no relation to what I saw in the flesh......

As an academic I suppose there is scope to do Some research to ascertain a correlation between attendance and perception....does attending in the flesh make it more (or less) likely to make a fan critical or could it have something to do with pre-conditioning.....teams we play etc. 

I generally leave games feeling upbeat (sometimes even if we have lost but played well).....it doesn't mean that fans can't express opinions....even if they are in the midst of sweeping generalisations.... that's life on the forum.....

[Major Isewater]

39 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

'We want to be consistent this season. It might be that we have to take a point here or there, whereas last year we were a bit gung-ho.'

And so speaks a midtable manager. A simple analysis of the table last season shows:

1. We lost less than a play off team , Middlesbrough.

2. We lost 4 less than a team who finished above us, Sheff Utd

3. We won the least out of the top 11

4. We drew the joint most games in the division.

5. The two teams who won most got promoted.

6. The team who lost the most survived, Birmingham.

Conclusion: Draws are shit Mr Johnson when compared to a winning a few and losing a few but we all know that by simple mathematics. Understand that and drop the oh we were too gung ho rubbish

Conclusion : Johnson is installing more intelligent game management, a point is better than nothing , which is exactly what we got in too many games last year with his Kamikaze balls out substitutions.

I'm happy that he now realises that this is not a video game . 

Against Hull , For example, his subs were very attacking as he could see that they were flagging .

 I believe the balance is nearly right   and he should be applauded for learning and admitting his mistakes from last season.

 I totally agree with you that wins are more important than draws as I've already written on here that a club could , unrealistically of course, go unbeaten in a season, draw every match and get relegated.

What is interesting is the decision making by the coaching staff which is beginning to show a more pragmatic and mature aspect to it.

LJ was hugely criticised for the slide in form last season after Christmas and has addressed that .

If we can stay in touch with the play off places for the next two months we could be in for an exciting second half to the season.

 

[JBFC II]

 

16 hours ago, PFree said:

There's plenty of light when talking to him as he's so short

More seriously, all I want from a City team is a passionate, fully committed display every week and ideally where the team attacks with tempo - I have no problem losing or not going up providing they all put a committed shift in. All I see at the moment is sideways and backward passes, very slow tempo and a lot of boring, slow, possession football.

I have no problem with LJ but at times the current football is far too negative - he admitted himself last night that he didn't want to "go for it" in fear of losing? We are at home against a side second from the bottom - surely attack is the best form of defence? One man up front, at home, playing a relegation favourite - little structure, strange subs, need I go on?

When you think back to Jacki and Scott Murray in his prime, I couldn't wait to get to the Gate as it was great seeing them going past players with great skill, I just want players who attack and at least have a go..!

 

The slow, boring, possession football statement is interesting. I'd argue its pretty obvious what the players are doing, if you play it sideways you drag opposition players out and with Hull playing quite deep on Wednesday it worked regularly. 

We can't play high energy football for 90 minutes, that will never work. We went 4-1-4-1 on Wednesday, still an attacking line up with 4 attacking midfielders behind Diedhiou, man city play with one striker, do they not 'go for it'. We were also very structured on Wednesday, as we have been throughout the season, so again I don't know where that statement has come from.

I'd also say that one area you can't blame Johnson is with subs, on Saturday they changed the game, asthey did on Wednesday. 

I'd argue we have plenty of players who 'want to have a go', we can't expect to have a team full of Murrays and Jackis but the likes of eliasson and O'dowda do attack and go forward all the time

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

9 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

I must be going to a different game than most on this thread.

Last night we were incredibly lucky to win - Hull, at times, in the first half, particularly early on, looked really threatening and it took some excellent defensive work and Max AND a bit of luck to keep them out.

How anyone cannot see that we are utterly impotentent in front of goal astounds me - Fam is too slow and cumbersome and Weiman is NOT a striker.

Witness Ellison - who I thought played very well first half, putting numerous balls into the box with NOBODY attacking them.

Midfield is way too static - countless times last night we brought the ball out from the back and there was ZERO movement which left the player in possession with no option but to go square.

Let's see what happens on Saturday - if I was an opposition manager in this league I would quite fancy my chances against us currently.

 

Not sure what you're saying here.  Hull were indeed threatening at times, and, as you say, our defense dealt with them really well.  But surely that doesn't make us incredibly lucky to win?  All opponents are entitled to play well, and it's our job to defend against them when we need to, and that is what we did at times on Tuesday, and did it very well.  That's a positive of our performance for me.

Another way of looking at Wednesday is that Hull came to stifle us and to catch us on the break, and we stuck to our task doggedly and got what we deserved in the 93rd minute.  No team scores more late goals than us, which says a lot about our application, our energy and our morale.

I agree that the midfield needs to be more creative, but the fact is that we weren't particularly lucky on Wednesday - I don't remember Hull fluffing clear chances, nor us getting a particularly fortunate rub of the green, and indeed on another day Brownhill's shot which hit the post might have gone in - but we stuck to it and got three points.  You often have to dig out the points against teams lower down in the division because they don't let you play (Rotherham got a point at Middlesbro on Tuesday night), and that's exactly what we did.  You could argue that we were lucky at Brentford, but you need a but of luck away from home.

To my mind the player we are missing is Bobby Reid, who constantly made things happen.  Matty Taylor can do the same, though not quite with Bobby's skill levels and flair, but Weimann for me is a big disappointment.  I was told by a mate who supports Villa that he is good for the first few games, and then you don't see him again, and that seems to be what is happening.  But overall, six wins and four draws from the first fourteen matches strikes as a pretty good return and something to build on, and what we're looking for this season is forward momentum, buliding towards the end of the season, and I see no reason why we can't do that, particularly with interesting players like Eisa and Adelukan returning from injury.

[BRISTOL86]

It’s about time he started getting a bit more respect to be fair. He’s proven himself a perfectly competent manager at this level with a record that is as good as some very capable managers, some of whom get lauded on here frequently  

To have us pushing for a playoff place for a second straight season, in a division this competitive, after having key assets sold, is no mean feat. 

High time people let what happened two seasons ago go, and focus on the bigger picture. His record with us at this level is very credible indeed. 

[cidered abroad]

19 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

It’s about time he started getting a bit more respect to be fair. He’s proven himself a perfectly competent manager at this level with a record that is as good as some very capable managers, some of whom get lauded on here frequently  

To have us pushing for a playoff place for a second straight season, in a division this competitive, after having key assets sold, is no mean feat. 

High time people let what happened two seasons ago go, and focus on the bigger picture. His record with us at this level is very credible indeed. 

That's fair comment. But plenty of us are hoping that we are consistent without a string of poor performances. And waiting to see if it happens again for the fourth year in a row for LJ. Praying that it doesn't. 

So let us just take one game at a time and see how we get on.

[BRISTOL86]

6 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

That's fair comment. But plenty of us are hoping that we are consistent without a string of poor performances. And waiting to see if it happens again for the fourth year in a row for LJ. Praying that it doesn't. 

So let us just take one game at a time and see how we get on.

Aren’t we all! But this league has shown season after season that it’s anything but consistent, and just how hard it is to really have that level of consistency.

Personally I would be very happy with an 8th-12th placed finish, delivered in a consistent manner. Of course I’d love us to get to a top six finish but for me we don’t have that quality in the squad, so if it does happen, it will be a significant over achievement IMO. 

[Crisis what Crisis ?]

17 hours ago, reddogkev said:

Decided to start this thread now, on the back of two wins, as I'm hoping most of our negative feeling of the early part of the month has dispersed.  Looking at the league table today, with City 4 points off of the top spot and performing like a solid team, I feel extremely positive with LJ as the manager of City.  The guy's doing a quality job and is well on course to give City a solid top ten finish (if not higher).  He's not afraid to integrate youth players into the team / squad (something that has seldom been seen on this scale) and is proving himself as someone who coaches / develops players to improve their game.  Given time, I'm sure he'll have us fighting every step of the way for the Premier League.

Well done, Lee, keep up the bloody good job you are doing.

....bizarrely enough i was watching the Rangers game against Spartak Moscow last night and muttering away to myself about how Ryan Kent looks a totally different player under Steven Gerrard than he did down here . In fact i think he may have got Man of the bloody Match yesterday ! Now i'm well aware that there a lot of variables in how a player is perceived by fans  ( team set up , quality of players around him etc ) but i'm yet to be convinced that LJ gets the best out of them especially where changing our style during games to accommodate a player that may be able to ' hurt the opposition ' is concerned .

[Bristol Oil Services]

10 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

I must be going to a different game than most on this thread.

Last night we were incredibly lucky to win - Hull, at times, in the first half, particularly early on, looked really threatening and it took some excellent defensive work and Max AND a bit of luck to keep them out.

How anyone cannot see that we are utterly impotent in front of goal astounds me - Fam is too slow and cumbersome and Weiman is NOT a striker.

Witness Ellison - who I thought played very well first half, putting numerous balls into the box with NOBODY attacking them.

Midfield is way too static - countless times last night we brought the ball out from the back and there was ZERO movement which left the player in possession with no option but to go square.

Let's see what happens on Saturday - if I was an opposition manager in this league I would quite fancy my chances against us currently.

 

This is why LJ is doing a good job, better than that, so far this season.

He doesn't have a Kodjia this season, nor a Tomlin (the on-loan Tomlin), he doesn't have a Tammy, nor does he have a Bobby. Or, indeed, a Flint. That run of goal scorers and providers had to end at some point.

So, aware that we might be short of goals this time, he had to make sure we have got some quality at the back and do not leak goals, and Webster/Kalas/Baker/Wright (when he's fit) plus Kelly is a very good quintet of defenders. He also added Championship ready Jack Hunt and improved us between the sticks. Result=lots of clean sheets. 

He has also coped with a lot of injuries amongst those above mentioned defenders/keepers. And we are four points off the top, about one third into the season.

Oddly, LJ has turned us into a "Preston," this season (scoring few, conceding few; bit functional), while Preston have turned into a "Bristol City" (scoring plenty, conceding shedloads; bit all over the shop). 

[Crisis what Crisis ?]

9 minutes ago, Crisis what Crisis ? said:

....bizarrely enough i was watching the Rangers game against Spartak Moscow last night and muttering away to myself about how Ryan Kent looks a totally different player under Steven Gerrard than he did down here . In fact i think he may have got Man of the bloody Match yesterday ! Now i'm well aware that there a lot of variables in how a player is perceived by fans  ( team set up , quality of players around him etc ) but i'm yet to be convinced that LJ gets the best out of them especially where changing our style during games to accommodate a player that may be able to ' hurt the opposition ' is concerned .

....and NOW i've found the Ryan Kent thread on here talking about the same thing .....sorry peeps

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, MelksRed said:

To be fair I'm often astounded as to how well we seem to play on TV......when I'm at the games (home and away) it can almost hear no relation to what I saw in the flesh......

As an academic I suppose there is scope to do Some research to ascertain a correlation between attendance and perception....does attending in the flesh make it more (or less) likely to make a fan critical or could it have something to do with pre-conditioning.....teams we play etc. 

I generally leave games feeling upbeat (sometimes even if we have lost but played well).....it doesn't mean that fans can't express opinions....even if they are in the midst of sweeping generalisations.... that's life on the forum.....

I do think you not only get a different perspective watching on tv to watching at the ground, but you also get a different perspective deoending on where you sit/stand in the ground too.

Also, your watching of the game influences your perspective too, e.g. do you watch totally focussed on what City do, or do you watch, taking what Hull are doing also?  For example, Hunt got exposed in the opening half hour (he still did well going forward however).  Do you look at why that is, it just say Hunt is a crap defender?

possible reasons:

- he’s playing against a very good LW - Grosicki - who’s played 62 times for his country, played in the World Cup, and was an £8m signing!!

- Lichaj played high as a WB, and Eliasson isn't as good defensively in front of him as say COD or MW, so Hunt often needing to press Lichaj or Irvine, allowing Grosicki to run in behind him.

@Major Isewater and @The Dolman Pragmatist Good posts.

[spudski]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I do think you not only get a different perspective watching on tv to watching at the ground, but you also get a different perspective deoending on where you sit/stand in the ground too.

Also, your watching of the game influences your perspective too, e.g. do you watch totally focussed on what City do, or do you watch, taking what Hull are doing also?  For example, Hunt got exposed in the opening half hour (he still did well going forward however).  Do you look at why that is, it just say Hunt is a crap defender?

possible reasons:

- he’s playing against a very good LW - Grosicki - who’s played 62 times for his country, played in the World Cup, and was an £8m signing!!

- Lichaj played high as a WB, and Eliasson isn't as good defensively in front of him as say COD or MW, so Hunt often needing to press Lichaj or Irvine, allowing Grosicki to run in behind him.

@Major Isewater and @The Dolman Pragmatist Good posts.

Exactly what you say Dave.

I watched Hunt closely and Eliasson.

Hunt gets exposed a lot when Eliasson is in front of him.

He often chooses the wrong positioning and Hunt gets caught out with no option under pressure.

Weirdly .. Elliason doesn't do this so much when playing on the left, his decision making is much better.

Not sure whether the coaching team will have noticed this...probably will have though. Meticulous these days.

[Davefevs]

23 minutes ago, spudski said:

Exactly what you say Dave.

I watched Hunt closely and Eliasson.

Hunt gets exposed a lot when Eliasson is in front of him.

He often chooses the wrong positioning and Hunt gets caught out with no option under pressure.

That comes back to previous posts i’ve made that Eliasson’s starting positing / receiving position is too high....acute angle pass (think more threading through eye of a needle), rather than obtuse angle pass (think easier, more likely to reach target - Eliasson)

Weirdly .. Elliason doesn't do this so much when playing on the left, his decision making is much better.

Haven’t seen him enough on left to qualify, but interesting you’ve witnessed this.  I wonder whether part of this is when NE  gets side on on the RW, if he’s advanced, even when he shifts it onto his left, he’s still got a decent angled cross?

Not sure whether the coaching team will have noticed this...probably will have though. Meticulous these days.

I bloody hope they have!!!

 

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

21 hours ago, Alessandro said:

@reddogkev - you must have shares in tin hats!

Or tin foil!

[Redrascal2]

21 hours ago, reddogkev said:

Decided to start this thread now, on the back of two wins, as I'm hoping most of our negative feeling of the early part of the month has dispersed.  Looking at the league table today, with City 4 points off of the top spot and performing like a solid team, I feel extremely positive with LJ as the manager of City.  The guy's doing a quality job and is well on course to give City a solid top ten finish (if not higher).  He's not afraid to integrate youth players into the team / squad (something that has seldom been seen on this scale) and is proving himself as someone who coaches / develops players to improve their game.  Given time, I'm sure he'll have us fighting every step of the way for the Premier League.

Well done, Lee, keep up the bloody good job you are doing.

Remarkable euology after 2 wins and some of the dreadful performances this season. But I really hope you are right.

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, Redrascal2 said:

Remarkable euology after 2 wins and some of the dreadful performances this season. But I really hope you are right.

That’s @reddogkev for you, no middle ground. 

[PFree]

22 hours ago, Roger Red Hat said:

You've not been to a game recently then.

I've hardly missed a home game in close on 30 games and been a ST holder for most of those - I'm allowed an opinion too I believe even if it differs from yours..

 

[Roger Red Hat]

6 minutes ago, PFree said:

I've hardly missed a home game in close on 30 games and been a ST holder for most of those - I'm allowed an opinion too I believe even if it differs from yours..

 

No problem with you having an opinion.

I don't recognise your description of the play at AG.

[Andy082005]

On 25/10/2018 at 15:01, reddogkev said:

Decided to start this thread now, on the back of two wins, as I'm hoping most of our negative feeling of the early part of the month has dispersed.  Looking at the league table today, with City 4 points off of the top spot and performing like a solid team, I feel extremely positive with LJ as the manager of City.  The guy's doing a quality job and is well on course to give City a solid top ten finish (if not higher).  He's not afraid to integrate youth players into the team / squad (something that has seldom been seen on this scale) and is proving himself as someone who coaches / develops players to improve their game.  Given time, I'm sure he'll have us fighting every step of the way for the Premier League.

Well done, Lee, keep up the bloody good job you are doing.

Good start to the season so fair play to him and the players

This isn't new ground for him though is it. The last 3 seasons we have started well but the problems have come a few months in, and later in the season. Once we get found out a little bit...his lack of a plan B becomes evident, and we go on a poor run of form .

I just hope....that if we get to January and are doing relatively well....we don't **** up the Transfer window again and for once, we show some actual ambition in the market and go and buy players in who are READY for this league

We've had long enough to learn as a club. 

 

[22A]

On 25/10/2018 at 15:01, reddogkev said:

 

Well done, Lee, keep up the bloody good job you are doing.

Are you allowed to post that sort of sentiment on this forum?

[phantom]

Team doing OK, we've not really played well all season, some of the games we've won we were the poorer side and some of the games we've lost we were the better team. 

What bothers me we seem to take months to find our best formation etc, there is always a constant tinkering of the line up and some of our players seem to struggle being in and out of the side. 

Tactics are still odd, it became a running joke how often we made a double change on the hour mark. 

Certainly an average league, but we're an average team in that league. 

Let's hope this is the first season of his management where he doesn't have that disastrous 10-15 game run, otherwise we should be knocking on the door to the top 10

[JamesBCFC]

1 hour ago, Andy082005 said:

Good start to the season so fair play to him and the players

This isn't new ground for him though is it. The last 3 seasons we have started well but the problems have come a few months in, and later in the season. Once we get found out a little bit...his lack of a plan B becomes evident, and we go on a poor run of form .

I just hope....that if we get to January and are doing relatively well....we don't **** up the Transfer window again and for once, we show some actual ambition in the market and go and buy players in who are READY for this league

We've had long enough to learn as a club. 

 

Like Hunt, Kalas, Webster and Weimann?

[Andy082005]

19 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Like Hunt, Kalas, Webster and Weimann?

Exactly. I'm not denying the players we have bought in arnt good for this level 

However, we will more then likely need to strengthen in January. Injuries will happen ...important players could fall out of form....and it's important we add the quality when needed 

All the teams that kicked on second part of last season added some real quality in January to give them a boost. We never...

 

[JamesBCFC]

2 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

Exactly. I'm not denying the players we have bought in arnt good for this level 

However, we will more then likely need to strengthen in January. Injuries will happen ...important players could fall out of form....and it's important we add the quality when needed 

All the teams that kicked on second part of last season added some real quality in January to give them a boost. We never...

 

We did try though.

The fact the signings didnt work out is a seperate issue.

Diony had moved for £9m in the summer, but hadn't settled for whatever reason and had only 1 goal to his name.

If he had settled and was doing better he would have been above what we could have brought in.  Equally we don't know who the club tried to sign but weren't able to.

[Andy082005]

16 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

We did try though.

The fact the signings didnt work out is a seperate issue.

Diony had moved for £9m in the summer, but hadn't settled for whatever reason and had only 1 goal to his name.

If he had settled and was doing better he would have been above what we could have brought in.  Equally we don't know who the club tried to sign but weren't able to.

Fairly certain they openly admitted Diony was number 1 target 

It's hard enough for foreign players to settle....but he clearly came with issues, so it was one hell of a gamble. 

Fingers crossed we have learnt some lessons. The summer signings were mostly experienced at this level....which is key if we want to try and get in that top 6. 

 

[Major Isewater]

3 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

Good start to the season so fair play to him and the players

This isn't new ground for him though is it. The last 3 seasons we have started well but the problems have come a few months in, and later in the season. Once we get found out a little bit...his lack of a plan B becomes evident, and we go on a poor run of form .

I just hope....that if we get to January and are doing relatively well....we don't **** up the Transfer window again and for once, we show some actual ambition in the market and go and buy players in who are READY for this league

We've had long enough to learn as a club. 

 

Perhaps you haven't noticed the changes in our play , less gung ho more measured in our game management.

LJ is perfectly aware of what happened last season and has adapted. Now many supporters are criticising him for not doing exactly what he did last season.

Poor bugger can't win . 

[JamesBCFC]

6 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Perhaps you haven't noticed the changes in our play , less gung ho more measured in our game management.

LJ is perfectly aware of what happened last season and has adapted. Now many supporters are criticising him for not doing exactly what he did last season.

Poor bugger can't win . 

Fortunately he can sometimes!

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Perhaps you haven't noticed the changes in our play , less gung ho more measured in our game management.

LJ is perfectly aware of what happened last season and has adapted. Now many supporters are criticising him for not doing exactly what he did last season.

Poor bugger can't win . 

No doubt LJ has his team playing in a more conservative fashion but that might be simply him trying to counter the opposition strengths - as he he did against the Blades.

My worry is that it becomes a default style of play. 

 

[RobintheRed Red]

3 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

Like Hunt, Kalas, Webster and Weimann?

Or Watkins Engvald Walsh or Hegeler?

[Northern Red]

1 hour ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Or Watkins Engvald Walsh or Hegeler?

Eh?