Singers, clappers, shouters and quiet people

[reddogkev]

Why don't many large groups collectively sing during football matches anymore?  Is it a dying practice of being a football fan at a game?

I like to sing an anthem I'm familiar with if a fair few people already have it going, but I'll never start a song, and won't often join if it's just one or two people.

On the whole, I'll shout and cheer at the usual places, and scream 'Come on you Reds' here or there.  Normally, I'm happy to be quiet and watch the game, whilst waiting for a decent rousing song I can join in with.

What type of fan at the ground are you?  Do we still have the larger than life characters (like the legendary Kev Hardiman for example) who will think nothing of standing up and starting a city song going?  I often wonder if the extra cost of alcohol stops people creating a constant, passionate atmosphere like years gone by.

[Pezo]

I like to join in whenever I hear the start of a song but don't start songs anymore.

I think a lot of people associate it with the hooligan element which is obviously wrong but when some of the songs are about hate and violence then I can see why it's hard to break the link.

[Robbored]

Years ago I joined in pretty much every song/chat that started up in the old EE but I haven’t joined in any probably for years. Two probable reasons for that 1) I rarely hear and songs/chants from my seat in the Dolman. 2) I’m surrounded by blokes of my generation and we’ve all been there and done that and it doesn’t hold the enjoyment element as it used to.

Must be an age thing......

[Eddie Hitler]

I like the singing; I join in if I know the words. ("No, no, no!") but they tend to be rather fast and die away quickly so I'm often going "What?".  I must buy the excellent OTIB fanzine more often as they usually print the words.

And it's been said many times before but if you genuinely want people joining in around the ground then do not ever chant "Dolman, Dolman, give us a song" because however well meant that may be the actual effect is to silence the Dolman.

[Lack of Action Man]

Because when you load up on cider pre-match, trying to get your words in the right order out becomes a lot more tricky!

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

8 hours ago, reddogkev said:

Why don't many large groups collectively sing during football matches anymore?  Is it a dying practice of being a football fan at a game?

I like to sing an anthem I'm familiar with if a fair few people already have it going, but I'll never start a song, and won't often join if it's just one or two people.

On the whole, I'll shout and cheer at the usual places, and scream 'Come on you Reds' here or there.  Normally, I'm happy to be quiet and watch the game, whilst waiting for a decent rousing song I can join in with.

What type of fan at the ground are you?  Do we still have the larger than life characters (like the legendary Kev Hardiman for example) who will think nothing of standing up and starting a city song going?  I often wonder if the extra cost of alcohol stops people creating a constant, passionate atmosphere like years gone by.

All seating. Shit.

[Robbored]

30 minutes ago, Mike Hunt-Hertz said:

All seating. Shit.

It doesn’t help encourage songs/chants for sure but overall the matchday experience is far better for it.

[David Brent]

37 minutes ago, Mike Hunt-Hertz said:

All seating. Shit.

Don’t agree. I’ve been to all seater stadiums around the world and the atmosphere has been better than anything I’ve experienced at Ashton Gate except for brief highs. 

I think it needs to be orchestrated. People have said they will join in but won’t start. The club needs to employ a small number of fans who are happy to lead without it feeling like a burden. There’s no shame in megaphones / drums etc.. People want a pure atmosphere but it won’t happen by itself. Who cares if other clubs fans think it’s tinpot or plastic.

23k city fans at Ashton Gate could generate some serious noise. Turn the whole South Stand into unreserved seating and let people leave flags setup. Doesn’t help we share the stadium to be honest. Ultimately it’s down to us but the club could really help to get it going. 

I’ve been to stadiums where the demographic is completely different so there’s no reason why families can’t get involved.

It doesn’t bother me personally but another reason I think people get put off singing is songs containing bad language, especially when they don’t need to.

[exAtyeoMax]

I’m quite happy to join in, admittedly I don’t know the words to many of the songs but I think that’s the case of many around me in S21. “Eh, what they singing?”

We just need some better songs...hopefully without ‘you ****’ at the end. 

There have been some good suggestions on another thread, I can’t remember what they were unfortunately 

[EmissionImpossible]

I’ve never been one to join in with songs other than ‘come on you reds’.

People go to football for numerous reasons other than just supporting the club, to feel part of a group, to analyse and understand the game, get rid of frustrations from every day life etc etc. None of these options are stand alone reasons and often mix but I do prefer to sit in an area of the ground where singing/chanting is less prevalent because  I want to focus on the game.

Its ridiculous to complain about the lack of atmosphere because it’s down to organisation and being orchestrated and this has nothing to do with all seater stadiums. In an ideal world you would have the far end of the dolman who sang and S82, thereby creating an illusion of the whole ground being in sync.

Then again, in an ideal world I would be dating Jennifer Lawrence. So best off forgetting about the real world.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Mix of reasons IMO.

• Aging fanbase- as @Robbored said such fans have been there, done it got the t-shirt etc so less appeal.
• All seater stadia- now the Dolman for example has always been all-seater but if you have even noise spreading from an adjacent terrace say that should help- those who went in the Dolman pre all-seater should be able to confirm or debunk my view! If you sit though, you are less likely to stand, sing and shout,
• Some of the chants...people may not be so inclined to join in because of language used- doesn't bother me.
• Self-fulfilling cycle- if people around you aren't singing and being noisy and you hear a chant from elsewhere in the ground you don't want to be one of a handful chanting- dare say lots of people think like this and the knock on effect means a lot of people stay quiet,.

[spudski]

Football grounds are generally quieter across the country.

Imo...it's down to their being too much football.

Back in the day...football was once a week, and a few highlights on TV.

It was a treat to go...and something you looked forward to all week.

Now...it's just the norm. You can watch football 24/7. We've become numb to it.

Not many people get truly excited to go to a game anymore...it's almost like going to the Cinema.

Atmosphere is created naturally when people actually get excited and emotions run higher.

We get games like against Man Utd and Man City last season...where there was a natural excitement and energy.

When something happens on the pitch that causes emotion...then a natural atmosphere flows.

All ages join in, when they are more motivated emotionally.

Chanting and singing for the sake of it is different....it creates a background of noise...but not an atmosphere imo.

When you get a rousing and emotional 'C'moooooooooon you Reeeeeeeeds' build around the ground...it's natural, real gut emotion. You can feel it, and all ages join in.

It also physically and mentally lifts the players...you can see it.

When something is sang and chanted over and over again...it's just plain white noise.

It's very different in some other parts of the world...where orchestrated chants are put together. Different mind set.

Here's some food for thought...and with complete respect for the 'singing section'....I've heard songs chanted over and over again, however...when done lethargically, almost like 'do we have to'...it actually transfers to the pitch. The whole atmosphere around the ground becomes lethargic. It's actually worse than silence.

It has the same effect of when a small child moans or whines....it's noisy but not positive.

Just my observations.

[phantom]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

It doesn’t help encourage songs/chants for sure but overall the matchday experience is far better for it.

I disagree I think the matchday experience is dull nowadays, this is due to a combination of all seater stadia and the fact that the "average" fan is slowly being ousted away from what was a football club to what is now a big money corporate machine

[KingLear]

Away games i'll be on my feet, usually towards the back, singing away for 90 minutes.

Home games, i'll be sat on my seat, occasionally joining in with a song or two, getting told by people behind me to sit down because they can't see.

It's definitely a factor for me why I go to more away games than home. 

[Robbored]

4 minutes ago, phantom said:

I disagree I think the matchday experience is dull nowadays, this is due to a combination of all seater stadia and the fact that the "average" fan is slowly being ousted away from what was a football club to what is now a big money corporate machine

Back in the day the atmosphere was definitely better particularly in the old covered end as was. However outside of that AG was decrepit and even the Dolman Stand exits were poorly designed. The open end was well.....open to the elements as the Statton Bank is at the County ground. The Atyeo made a significant difference.

The toilets were disgusting, piss almost ankle deep and unless you were a member of the SC nowhere close to get a pre match pint.  Despite all that few of us gave it a second thought - it was what it was.

There was nothing going happening outside the stadium other than a burger van. Now there’s a fanzone with live music and plenty of food and booze outlets, and the bogs are clean.....

Like all of us I’m older and attitudes and tastes change as you age but  I still enjoy  the matchday experience but in a very different way to how I used to.

 

[Red Army 75]

Spudski made a couple of good points. Look at Crystal Palace noisy colourful. Look at our S82 . Steward after steward. Police presence. It’s all overkill . And destroys the feel good factor. All because people want to sing and create an atmosphere. You’re frowned upon by the powers above. 

 

 

[Leveller]

Maybe I’m completely on my own here, but while I don’t mind hearing singing in another part of the ground, I don’t actually like being in among it.

This is brought home to me when I go away (eg Brentford away recently) and have to stand behind the goal amongst singers. I appreciate their enthusiasm, but to be honest the noise makes me feel cut off from the game, rather than part of it. I liken it to watching the football on a TV in a noisy pub, with the sound off. It becomes like a distant vision that I’m not really experiencing. And the football is what I want to connect with, not the crowd.

On top of that, there are quite a few who seem more interested in looking at the opposition fans half the time, instead of the match, which I find bizarre, and seems to prove their real interest is in the fan rivalry ahead of the football. I can’t connect with that culture.

[phantom]

19 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

Spudski made a couple of good points. Look at Crystal Palace noisy colourful. Look at our S82 . Steward after steward. Police presence. It’s all overkill . And destroys the feel good factor. All because people want to sing and create an atmosphere. You’re frowned upon by the powers above. 

 

 

The ironic thing about this is the club keep using footage of S82 in promotional material to generate support at home games

[Robbored]

4 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Maybe I’m completely on my own here, but while I don’t mind hearing singing in another part of the ground, I don’t actually like being in among it.

This is brought home to me when I go away (eg Brentford away recently) and have to stand behind the goal amongst singers. I appreciate their enthusiasm, but to be honest the noise makes me feel cut off from the game, rather than part of it. I liken it to watching the football on a TV in a noisy pub, with the sound off. It becomes like a distant vision that I’m not really experiencing. And the football is what I want to connect with, not the crowd.

On top of that, there are quite a few who seem more interested in looking at the opposition fans half the time, instead of the match, which I find bizarre, and seems to prove their real interest is in the fan rivalry ahead of the football. I can’t connect with that culture.

Gotta a be age thing Leveller. I’m exactly the same whereas I used to enjoy being part of all that.

[Nogbad the Bad]

2 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I’m quite happy to join in, admittedly I don’t know the words to many of the songs but I think that’s the case of many around me in S21. “Eh, what they singing?”

We just need some better songs...hopefully without ‘you ****’ at the end. 

There have been some good suggestions on another thread, I can’t remember what they were unfortunately 

Here's one. Think there may have been another since this one, can't find it though.

 

[REDOXO]

Are we an aging fan base? That would be worrying!

However the younger ones dont do what we did and standing behind the goal singing songs is yesterday’s pizza. 

However we are very loud away not sure what that all adds up to!

perhaps to much tension and expectation at home and a release from that away. Reading will be loud!!

[Mr Popodopolous]

17 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Are we an aging fan base? That would be worrying!

However the younger ones dont do what we did and standing behind the goal singing songs is yesterday’s pizza. 

However we are very loud away not sure what that all adds up to!

perhaps to much tension and expectation at home and a release from that away. Reading will be loud!!

Thought the aging fanbase thing was fairly universal tbh- perhaps it's more a PL thing? By aging fan base, probably not put the best by me I'd say match going fans on average are perhaps older than they were 20-30 years ago.

Price of tickets, price of travel...it all adds up.

You mention away being loud- it definitely can be, but not always. Don't get away often (to say the least!) but found it hit and miss when I have.

[Fiale]

20 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Are we an aging fan base? That would be worrying!

However the younger ones dont do what we did and standing behind the goal singing songs is yesterday’s pizza. 

However we are very loud away not sure what that all adds up to!

perhaps to much tension and expectation at home and a release from that away. Reading will be loud!!

 

yeah i'm not to sure on this (other than of course we are all ageing) there are a lot of youngsters, teens, 20's, 30's etc age groups in the ground, it hasn't changed that much in my eyes over all these years. Maybe it's the fact we tend to congregate into areas of the ground surrounded by others like ourselves (family section / S82 / grumpy OAP Dolman    etc ).

[Red-Robbo]

30 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Are we an aging fan base? That would be worrying!

However the younger ones dont do what we did and standing behind the goal singing songs is yesterday’s pizza. 

However we are very loud away not sure what that all adds up to!

perhaps to much tension and expectation at home and a release from that away. Reading will be loud!!

 

Live football is now an expensive passtime, and youngsters these days tend to have less spending power than OAPs. City, like all other clubs, has an ageing fanbase.

Which partly explains the declining noise from the stands.

[Nogbad the Bad]

31 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Are we an aging fan base? That would be worrying!

However the younger ones dont do what we did and standing behind the goal singing songs is yesterday’s pizza. 

However we are very loud away not sure what that all adds up to!

perhaps to much tension and expectation at home and a release from that away. Reading will be loud!!

I can only speak for myself, but it's a definite YES. 

Oh, and here's a thread from 4 years ago, and we're all even older now.

 

[Monkeh]

6 hours ago, Mike Hunt-Hertz said:

All seating. Shit.

Hasn’t stopped away fans and other grounds making a bit of noise,

people just enjoy football differently these days

[AshtonPark]

2 hours ago, phantom said:

The ironic thing about this is the club keep using footage of S82 in promotional material to generate support at home games

Without actually giving them any credit on the material they are posting, if anything making sure the banners etc arnt on show in the images they take. 

[lenred]

3 hours ago, phantom said:

The ironic thing about this is the club keep using footage of S82 in promotional material to generate support at home games

I’ve noticed that too and it smacks of hypocrisy somewhat imho. I really don’t know why the club just don’t start embracing the area 100%. Would make a lot of sense all round.  

[Mr Popodopolous]

38 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Hasn’t stopped away fans and other grounds making a bit of noise,

people just enjoy football differently these days

Away fans tend to be noisy as a rule. It is fairly common- especially with certain clubs- for all away fans to stand for a start, which undoubtedly helps!

[Frenchay Red]