Will football eat itself ?

[BTRFTG]

The gist of many of these posts assume that had the TV revenues not arisen then football today would be something akin what it was 30 years ago, which is palpable nonsense. Without TV monies much of football would have long since gone the way of Greyhounds and Speedway, or at best we'd be looking at the European model of a very few professional clubs with the rest as regional, amateur set-ups.

Whilst much revenue is squandered to agents and bit-part players a significant amount does trickle down, as shown by our own accounts yesterday. Worth remembering that the last FL deal pre Premiership raised £18m (all rights), the first Premier deal £304m and the latest £5.1bn (UK rights only.)

Like it or loathe it's these monies that keep clubs such as ours in business.

[Major Isewater]

9 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

The gist of many of these posts assume that had the TV revenues not arisen then football today would be something akin what it was 30 years ago, which is palpable nonsense. Without TV monies much of football would have long since gone the way of Greyhounds and Speedway, or at best we'd be looking at the European model of a very few professional clubs with the rest as regional, amateur set-ups.

Whilst much revenue is squandered to agents and bit-part players a significant amount does trickle down, as shown by our own accounts yesterday. Worth remembering that the last FL deal pre Premiership raised £18m (all rights), the first Premier deal £304m and the latest £5.1bn (UK rights only.)

Like it or loathe it's these monies that keep clubs such as ours in business.

It's these television monies which make football today so expensive.

It's television money which causes clubs to overstretch in the often vain attempt to keep up. 

Without this poison chalice clubs would still get along as before but paying more sustainable wages and overheads to do so . 

It's the inflationary cycle, people demand higher wages , they get more spending money so prices of everything goes up . They're worse off as it takes more money to stand still . 

Greyhounds and speedway went through lack of support, football will go the same way if it doesn't nourish it's grass roots and supporters.

 

[BTRFTG]

15 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

It's the inflationary cycle, people demand higher wages , they get more spending money so prices of everything goes up . They're worse off as it takes more money to stand still . 

Greyhounds and speedway went through lack of support, football will go the same way if it doesn't nourish it's grass roots and supporters.

One doesn't have to pay upon demand, Major. I fear you've missed the point.

Today's supporters are not what they were 100, 50 or even 20 years ago. I'm in the middle bracket. I watch City because my Father did, as did his father. They did so as a release from the daily grind, often coming straight from work to matches. I watch because he took me, no grind for me. Other than playing football there was **** all else to do on a Saturday. I didn't expect or demand success, it was simply something to do to get out the house. Crackers Corner told me early doors we were 'Bl**dy Rubbish' and pretty much that's what we've comparatively been ever since. No disappointment there.

Younger supporters today demand success, instantly. Why support a team that'll never win anything, that'll lead only to dissonance and despair? Bristol itself shows little resemblance to the city I left 40 years back. Kids whose parents have no geographic allegiance to the area, couldn't give two hoots about Ashton Gate.

The fact we continue to throw bits of money ( though nowhere near enough) to compete shows the folly of modern football. Fans who expect others to fund silly sums. That's not TV money, that's their expectation and our mismanagement. Our accounts show the amount we bring in through our 'expensive' admission policy doesn't touch the sides but there are clubs out there who compete better than us without squandering small fortunes on the likes of Patterson and Watkins (though I could have listed a few dozen or more these past five seasons.)

Supporters these days are fickle, as they should be. There's more to life than football.

 

[SedRA]

2 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Too true. We were so lucky to grow up with the freedom to make our mistakes and learn from them.

As kids we played together without parents supervising every move . We recognised the " dirty old men " who loitered by the park .

We fooled them into treating us to ice-creams whilst maintaining a safe distance and woe betide any bloke who tried anything on ,

Many a sorry pervert got pelted with sticks and stones when he overstepped the mark .

We grew into confident individuals who knew how to live in the real world, filled with beauty and danger . 

I worry for today's youngsters who grow up under their Mother's pinnies and will be so vulnerable in society.

 

 

1 hour ago, myol'man said:

No names mentioned, but 'someone I know' wouldn't allow his kids aged 14, 12 and 10 to go out trick or treating, far too risky (and he lives in a posh part of Bristol)

They are not even allowed to play shoot em up video games, let alone play 'war' out in the streets using rocks as hand grenades!

And the thought of them even going down the local shop on their own, let alone a football match? Noooooooooo.

Sorry, I've gone off topic slightly, but they have to start going to football at a young age to get the bug for life.

You lot...

Whilst everything changes, some things never change. 

 

[exAtyeoMax]

45 minutes ago, RedSA said:

 

You lot...

Whilst everything changes, some things never change. 

 

I hope the headset commentary at Elland Road is like this…

[exAtyeoMax]

57 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

One doesn't have to pay upon demand, Major. I fear you've missed the point.

Today's supporters are not what they were 100, 50 or even 20 years ago. I'm in the middle bracket. I watch City because my Father did, as did his father. They did so as a release from the daily grind, often coming straight from work to matches. I watch because he took me, no grind for me. Other than playing football there was **** all else to do on a Saturday. I didn't expect or demand success, it was simply something to do to get out the house. Crackers Corner told me early doors we were 'Bl**dy Rubbish' and pretty much that's what we've comparatively been ever since. No disappointment there.

Younger supporters today demand success, instantly. Why support a team that'll never win anything, that'll lead only to dissonance and despair? Bristol itself shows little resemblance to the city I left 40 years back. Kids whose parents have no geographic allegiance to the area, couldn't give two hoots about Ashton Gate.

The fact we continue to throw bits of money ( though nowhere near enough) to compete shows the folly of modern football. Fans who expect others to fund silly sums. That's not TV money, that's their expectation and our mismanagement. Our accounts show the amount we bring in through our 'expensive' admission policy doesn't touch the sides but there are clubs out there who compete better than us without squandering small fortunes on the likes of Patterson and Watkins (though I could have listed a few dozen or more these past five seasons.)

Supporters these days are fickle, as they should be. There's more to life than football.

 

Yes but why do they demand instant success? Because they see football through the 'eyes' of SKY and the constant hype of the media… 

[Major Isewater]

50 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

One doesn't have to pay upon demand, Major. I fear you've missed the point.

Today's supporters are not what they were 100, 50 or even 20 years ago. I'm in the middle bracket. I watch City because my Father did, as did his father. They did so as a release from the daily grind, often coming straight from work to matches. I watch because he took me, no grind for me. Other than playing football there was **** all else to do on a Saturday. I didn't expect or demand success, it was simply something to do to get out the house. Crackers Corner told me early doors we were 'Bl**dy Rubbish' and pretty much that's what we've comparatively been ever since. No disappointment there.

Younger supporters today demand success, instantly. Why support a team that'll never win anything, that'll lead only to dissonance and despair? Bristol itself shows little resemblance to the city I left 40 years back. Kids whose parents have no geographic allegiance to the area, couldn't give two hoots about Ashton Gate.

The fact we continue to throw bits of money ( though nowhere near enough) to compete shows the folly of modern football. Fans who expect others to fund silly sums. That's not TV money, that's their expectation and our mismanagement. Our accounts show the amount we bring in through our 'expensive' admission policy doesn't touch the sides but there are clubs out there who compete better than us without squandering small fortunes on the likes of Patterson and Watkins (though I could have listed a few dozen or more these past five seasons.)

Supporters these days are fickle, as they should be. There's more to life than football.

 

In your post ,that I replied to , you said that tv money saved football I say the opposite. 

Your latest post is not a reply to that but to other issues . 

I agree that football was a release, something to do on a Saturday afternoon.

That youngsters want to be identified with success , even in our glory years of the First division there were the glory hunters who supported Liverpool, Leeds or Man Utd but never saw them play other than on MOTD. but we still had a healthy following.

This was , perhaps, because of family affiliations, those same affiliations that are being severed due to the high cost of taking your kids to live football matches. 

For most kids it was a tribal thing , winning was great but it wasn't everything. Your club was part of who you were, a diehard or, as we call them today , a plastic fan. 

We experienced the brotherhood of standing , united, on the terrasses with the same people week in , week out. 

It was fun . Bawdy , a bit dangerous but overall fun .Everyone belonged. We never expected to win but we did want to see our lads battling on the pitch , for the City and that was mostly enough.

Our lads . The players who often came to the ground on the same train or bus as the supporters. Who drank in the same pub as them . Our lads. 

This world has changed and the game with it and in my opinion the TV money has / is insidiously killing the love of football and will , sooner or later , eat itself. 

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, RedSA said:

 

You lot...

Whilst everything changes, some things never change. 

 

And they think they had it rough.

[RobintheRed Red]

On 01/11/2018 at 12:08, Mtimmy11 said:

I think it has all ready begun.i don’t go any more but when I did last season ,I actually found it embarrassing to tell people how much my ticket cost

I agree mate I took my two grandsons quid a kid paid for my two daughters 72 quid for seats in South stand with food and drinks it's a dear old day took daughter's because I didnt  want to have to leave early they are six years old want to come again do they do a family ticket on a match day?

[BTRFTG]

44 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Who drank in the same pub as them . Our lads. 

I'm struggling to picture you grooving under the ultra violet at the Platform 1, Major.

[Eddie Hitler]

2 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

One doesn't have to pay upon demand, Major. I fear you've missed the point.

Today's supporters are not what they were 100, 50 or even 20 years ago. I'm in the middle bracket. I watch City because my Father did, as did his father. They did so as a release from the daily grind, often coming straight from work to matches. I watch because he took me, no grind for me. Other than playing football there was **** all else to do on a Saturday. I didn't expect or demand success, it was simply something to do to get out the house. Crackers Corner told me early doors we were 'Bl**dy Rubbish' and pretty much that's what we've comparatively been ever since. No disappointment there.

Younger supporters today demand success, instantly. Why support a team that'll never win anything, that'll lead only to dissonance and despair? Bristol itself shows little resemblance to the city I left 40 years back. Kids whose parents have no geographic allegiance to the area, couldn't give two hoots about Ashton Gate.

The fact we continue to throw bits of money ( though nowhere near enough) to compete shows the folly of modern football. Fans who expect others to fund silly sums. That's not TV money, that's their expectation and our mismanagement. Our accounts show the amount we bring in through our 'expensive' admission policy doesn't touch the sides but there are clubs out there who compete better than us without squandering small fortunes on the likes of Patterson and Watkins (though I could have listed a few dozen or more these past five seasons.)

Supporters these days are fickle, as they should be. There's more to life than football.

 

I agree with most of that but does it make it a bad thing?

Football returns to being for and of the fans, crowds are smaller, players are local lads who live in the same streets as the fans.

The team is mostly Bristolians playing in the top one or two divisions against other teams represented by their best local players.

It may not be how football is now where to stay in the league and avoid going bust it has to be treated as a business, albeit a loss making one, but take out the TV money and it could return to its roots which sounds great to me tbh.

[BTRFTG]

3 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

but take out the TV money and it could return to its roots which sounds great to me tbh.

You don't have to look far to see what that might be. I believe there's a 'travellers site' in Horfield that's full of 'prowd' locals cheering on their heroes.

[Eddie Hitler]

24 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

You don't have to look far to see what that might be. I believe there's a 'travellers site' in Horfield that's full of 'prowd' locals cheering on their heroes.

And spending £2m a year more than they are earning including £250k going annually on a London office, the club owned by Jordanian muli-millionaires, mortgaged to the hilt and rumoured to be up for sale again.

The people's game it is not.

The only way to avoid this monetisation of football at present is to entirely reject the league clubs and go down to something like the seventh tier as even in the sixth tier Torquay and Truro play their money games and I'm sure the rest do as well.

[Chairman Mao]

No Tomlin joke?! You guys have gone soft.

[Major Isewater]

2 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

I'm struggling to picture you grooving under the ultra violet at the Platform 1, Major.

 

[Murraysrightplum]

Not until it has that rib removal surgery 

[RidgeRed]

8 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Too true. We were so lucky to grow up with the freedom to make our mistakes and learn from them.

As kids we played together without parents supervising every move . We recognised the " dirty old men " who loitered by the park .

We fooled them into treating us to ice-creams whilst maintaining a safe distance and woe betide any bloke who tried anything on ,

Many a sorry pervert got pelted with sticks and stones when he overstepped the mark .

We grew into confident individuals who knew how to live in the real world, filled with beauty and danger . 

I worry for today's youngsters who grow up under their Mother's pinnies and will be so vulnerable in society.

 

Laugh, off the original topic a bit Major but Downs League football early 1970s. Older chap always in the dressing room pre-match. The Chairman or some such position. Always ready to rub in the horse liniment to keep the cold out even on a very warm early season Aug/Sept Saturday. All very obvious & some of us even let him massage a calf muscle just for a laugh as he claimed to know all about muscles, ahem. Drew the line at thighs, though. No internet chat room to lurk anonymously in just a cold dressing room full of blokes effing, blinding & winding each other up.......and him.

[downendcity]

On a tangent from this thread.

A whistle blower has leaked documents that a German newspaper is saying show major clubs have had discussions about forming a breakaway Eropean Super League by 2021.

The leaks also claim that Man City and PSG only avoided Ftp sanctions because of the intervention of then EUFA secretary, now FIFA boss Infantino.

The former was only a matter of time. The latter confirming a different set of rules for the rich and powerful.

[reformed_red]

I may be a dreamer but the solution is for ALL clubs in top 2 tiers to have;

- total wage cap per club relevant to which league they are in (including add-ons, clauses, incentives and bonuses)

- requirement to field “x” amount of English players who cumulatively play “y” number of minutes / games over course of a season

- scrap the bosman rule 

- requirement for each club to invest fixed percentage of revenue in local youth schemes, including non-football related 

- requirement for each club to have a SUPPORTER elected full-time representative on the board, paid for by way of fixed salary funded by each club

- vastly reduce number of paid players any given club can employ, and also reduce the amount of outgoing loans in any one season

 

Won’t ever happen of course.

[Erithacus]

All it really needs is to strangle the income from the new overlords - the TV. That would solve many of the current modern problems...

Won’t ever happen of course.

[McNasty Filth]

1 hour ago, downendcity said:

On a tangent from this thread.

A whistle blower has leaked documents that a German newspaper is saying show major clubs have had discussions about forming a breakaway Eropean Super League by 2021.

The leaks also claim that Man City and PSG only avoided Ftp sanctions because of the intervention of then EUFA secretary, now FIFA boss Infantino.

The former was only a matter of time. The latter confirming a different set of rules for the rich and powerful.

Just read this story. 

Thing that struck me was 'the founding eleven clubs cannot be relegated from the league'. Wtf, if those clubs go down the NFL route, then imo they are playing with fire. Hopefully, the upcoming Spanish la Liga decision, it it goes against them, will make these so called untouchable clubs sit up and think twice.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/nov/02/five-english-clubs-named-in-super-league-plan-chelsea-manchester-city-united-arsenal-liverpool

[bristolcitysweden]

No atmosphere and plastic stadiums are killing football. Add primadonna football players and you got your porridge. You can as well stay at home and watch the game on telly doing other things 80 per cent of the time

[Aizoon]

Sadly true

[SimonL]

We are all starting to sound like Ipswich town fans a couple of seasons ago. Be careful what we all wish for. 

[WhistleHappy]

 

Eat itself?   (or BURY-ied alive)

Looks like its getting a bit peckish,  had a nibble yesterday,  probably will take another bite soon.. 

It's getting a taste for it now, matter of time before it turns into a devastating feeding frenzy.....

Greed and gluttony rearing its ugly head...