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Some realism...

Cider red

By Cider red
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Cider red

Cider red

Posted
Posted

Ok I have previously called for LJ and even Lansdown to go in the past; so call me a hypocrit.

Who are we? Bristol city; who haven't been in the top flight since the late 70s/ early 80s. 5 years ago we were staring relegation to league two in the face. 

When Johnson came in we had been in the bottom 3 most of the season; since then we have become a steady championship club. 

Today we lost at reading; disappointing; let's look at the game; most of the ball; more pressure on goal; we were guilty of giving it away in poor positions which ultimately cost us. They scored a 40 yarder; on another day we get atleast a point. 

People calling for Johnson's head; we are a mid table side; that's where we are. Who will come in and make us better? We're not far off Imo. As I've just said in another thread, be careful what you wish for; ask Ipswich! 

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daored

daored

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2 minutes ago, Cider red said:

Ok I have previously called for LJ and even Lansdown to go in the past; so call me a hypocrit.

Who are we? Bristol city; who haven't been in the top flight since the late 70s/ early 80s. 5 years ago we were staring relegation to league two in the face. 

When Johnson came in we had been in the bottom 3 most of the season; since then we have become a steady championship club. 

Today we lost at reading; disappointing; let's look at the game; most of the ball; more pressure on goal; we were guilty of giving it away in poor positions which ultimately cost us. They scored a 40 yarder; on another day we get atleast a point. 

People calling for Johnson's head; we are a mid table side; that's where we are. Who will come in and make us better? We're not far off Imo. As I've just said in another thread, be careful what you wish for; ask Ipswich! 

You make a lot of good points , and in reality the championship is not a ‘fair’ league with parachute payments etc.

Under Johnson we have become a mid table championship team. I think ultimately last season raised expectations, and I think people look at the money we’ve spent and feel we should be achieving more, we don’t have a bad squad 

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swanker

swanker

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Just fed up with us getting beaten at home to teams like Sheffield Wednesday who then go on a losing run and today we lost to a team who apparently are about to sack their manager. 

Dont mention the Rotherham and Wigan performances!

8 minutes ago, Trueredsupporte said:

After three years of Lee Johnson its still not clear how he wants the team to play. That is realism.

He’s trying to confuse the opposition?

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JamesBCFC

JamesBCFC

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34 minutes ago, swanker said:

Just fed up with us getting beaten at home to teams like Sheffield Wednesday who then go on a losing run and today we lost to a team who apparently are about to sack their manager. 

Dont mention the Rotherham and Wigan performances!

He’s trying to confuse the opposition?

Historically bigger ones who are more established than us at this level?

I'm sure Bournemouth fans feel the same when they lose to one of the bigger Premier League sides.

48 minutes ago, Robin Wood said:

No way are we a steady championship side 1 mid table finish should tell us that

Surely a mid table finish tells you exactly that?

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Snufflelufagus

Snufflelufagus

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1 hour ago, Cider red said:

Ok I have previously called for LJ and even Lansdown to go in the past; so call me a hypocrit.

Who are we? Bristol city; who haven't been in the top flight since the late 70s/ early 80s. 5 years ago we were staring relegation to league two in the face. 

When Johnson came in we had been in the bottom 3 most of the season; since then we have become a steady championship club. 

Today we lost at reading; disappointing; let's look at the game; most of the ball; more pressure on goal; we were guilty of giving it away in poor positions which ultimately cost us. They scored a 40 yarder; on another day we get atleast a point. 

People calling for Johnson's head; we are a mid table side; that's where we are. Who will come in and make us better? We're not far off Imo. As I've just said in another thread, be careful what you wish for; ask Ipswich! 

Some good points but it wasn't a 40 yarder. The lad was just outside the box. 

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joe jordans teeth

joe jordans teeth

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1 hour ago, Cider red said:

Ok I have previously called for LJ and even Lansdown to go in the past; so call me a hypocrit.

Who are we? Bristol city; who haven't been in the top flight since the late 70s/ early 80s. 5 years ago we were staring relegation to league two in the face. 

When Johnson came in we had been in the bottom 3 most of the season; since then we have become a steady championship club. 

Today we lost at reading; disappointing; let's look at the game; most of the ball; more pressure on goal; we were guilty of giving it away in poor positions which ultimately cost us. They scored a 40 yarder; on another day we get atleast a point. 

People calling for Johnson's head; we are a mid table side; that's where we are. Who will come in and make us better? We're not far off Imo. As I've just said in another thread, be careful what you wish for; ask Ipswich! 

If I knew how to highlight your last sentence you asked and answered your own question 

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wendyredredrobin

wendyredredrobin

Posted
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First part of last season we looked like going up and were even beating prem teams.  What happened in the second half of the season still remains a bit of a mystery.

We sold £25 milliin plus worth of players and bought in less than £5 million of replacements.  How the hell we lost £23 million, I don't know - crowds are up, ticket prices are up and we did pretty well from a cup run and tv money.

So to be fair to LJ, he will do well to finish in the top half this year, but we certainly don't seem to be progressing.

But what on earth is going on on the financial side of things.  I'm guessing that the wages of non playing staff may be getting a bit out of hand, but that surely doesn't account for a £23 million loss.

 

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

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Agree with @JonDolman on the tactical front- squad itself not too bad IMO, the way it has been managed however.

@wendyredredrobin It's all there in the accounts. Not looked at them fully yet but the lack of big sales or revenue from sell on clauses meant a strong likelihood of a high operating loss.

Yeah there was the Cup run and turnover rose undoubtedly- but wages rose quicker!

Additional cost of amortisation too- the Jan 2017 signings would have doubled in that respect because it was halfway through a season, that can't have helped.

Put those 3 together and it explains a lot of our losses.

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JamesBCFC

JamesBCFC

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26 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agree with @JonDolman on the tactical front- squad itself not too bad IMO, the way it has been managed however.

@wendyredredrobin It's all there in the accounts. Not looked at them fully yet but the lack of big sales or revenue from sell on clauses meant a strong likelihood of a high operating loss.

Yeah there was the Cup run and turnover rose undoubtedly- but wages rose quicker!

Additional cost of amortisation too- the Jan 2017 signings would have doubled in that respect because it was halfway through a season, that can't have helped.

Put those 3 together and it explains a lot of our losses.

Cup run would have added near to bugger all.

The gate receipts from the Plymouth game was about 40k, our total prize money was about 150k or something stupid (I did the maths a while ago, can't recall exact numbers).

The Man City and Man Utd games I believe would have worked out around 350k each, plus TV money. Minus police costs, staff costs and likely bonuses to players for cup performances.

Stoke and Palace games somewhere between the Plymouth numbers and Manchester numbers, and we'd hae got a slice of Watford away too.

All told, probably little more than £1.2m possibly less.

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Lrrr

Lrrr

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3 hours ago, wendyredredrobin said:

First part of last season we looked like going up and were even beating prem teams.  What happened in the second half of the season still remains a bit of a mystery.

We sold £25 milliin plus worth of players and bought in less than £5 million of replacements.  How the hell we lost £23 million, I don't know - crowds are up, ticket prices are up and we did pretty well from a cup run and tv money.

So to be fair to LJ, he will do well to finish in the top half this year, but we certainly don't seem to be progressing.

But what on earth is going on on the financial side of things.  I'm guessing that the wages of non playing staff may be getting a bit out of hand, but that surely doesn't account for a £23 million loss.

 

Accounts are for before this summer, they'll come under the next one. We spent approximately £10m last season plus whatever Diony's loan fee was and only really brought in money through transfers selling Tomlin. 

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pillred

pillred

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6 hours ago, Cider red said:

Ok I have previously called for LJ and even Lansdown to go in the past; so call me a hypocrit.

Who are we? Bristol city; who haven't been in the top flight since the late 70s/ early 80s. 5 years ago we were staring relegation to league two in the face. 

When Johnson came in we had been in the bottom 3 most of the season; since then we have become a steady championship club. 

Today we lost at reading; disappointing; let's look at the game; most of the ball; more pressure on goal; we were guilty of giving it away in poor positions which ultimately cost us. They scored a 40 yarder; on another day we get atleast a point. 

People calling for Johnson's head; we are a mid table side; that's where we are. Who will come in and make us better? We're not far off Imo. As I've just said in another thread, be careful what you wish for; ask Ipswich! 

we are a mid table, side you wonder why people moan you answered  your own post, some people are happy with that and good luck to them, some like me are hoping we become more than that, and at the moment we look as far away from that as ever. SL in his heart of hearts must be a little disappointed with that or at least I hope he is. 

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Always Believesham

Always Believesham

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Sorry this is a long reply - the main points are in bold, I appreciate the normal text is elaborate waffle, but I think it explains where I'm coming from.

6 hours ago, Trueredsupporte said:

After three years of Lee Johnson its still not clear how he wants the team to play. That is realism.

How he wants the team to play is obvious and he regularly refers to it in interviews. Johnson wants his players to play the 'right' way, which quite clearly involves keeping the ball and wearing teams down when in possession. When out of possession he wants high pressure in certain areas, where we're most likely to be able to capitalise when(if) we win the ball but don't over commit to the point of exposing the defence.

That is a very definite style which, when it works does work well. We are however let down by being not clynical enough up front on a regular basis and taking gambles at the wrong time (ie. player 1 goes to challenge, player 2 is supposed to be covering player 1 but instead goes beyond player 1. In anticipating him winning the ball, he gets caught out when player 1 doesn't win the ball). Critical to getting the team to play the right way is finding the best formation for the game. We do not have a championship galacticos team, this will be different between a game against Leeds and a game against Rotherham. In league one we had a team that was far and away better than everyone we played against, in the championship we've had to be more dynamic & I don't know how Sheffield United have maintained their momentum, playing the same formation that got them promoted.

I am however starting to get frustrated with the readiness to exchange defensive stability for a bit more attacking creativity. That is a philosophical, "which is best" that I'm not sure any of us could conclusively give an answer to. Which formation do you play to beat Preston? We know we will want a lot of the ball, they'll sit off us so it will take skill to pick holes in them. You don't want to concede but need create enough chances and have players in the mix to score goals. Johnson is an inexperienced manager who has assembled a squad that probably has 2 or 3 'solutions' that could win that game. We were incredibly one dimensional last season and got found out when we ran out of steam without a plan B (a fit plan b - the gamble on Djuric's fitness had more to do with that than the money on Diony). The last 135 minutes of football look like Marlon Pack is crucial to Walsh's development, he know exactly where he's going to be and where he needs support, the best side was undoubtedly the side that finished the Stoke game but we won't come up against a team like that, in that situation again.

For me, as we are struggling to score anyway, we need to focus on conceding as few goals as possible. Having witnessed today, if that means playing 4-5-1 away at the next Reading, so be it. Elliasson, Pack, Walsh & Brownhill have proved they have the skill and guile to carve out opportunities & our strong defence makes me less anxious when we don't score from them - eventually one should go in. Players like Pack & Brownhill should be scoring goals like their second today, it was nothing particularly special, just passed into the top corner.

Reaslism for me is; the best team cannot be played week in week out, due to injuries, energy levels and teams knowing exactly what and how we'll play. Players will have bad games and will require resting and there will be disappointing games while LJ scopes out a different XI/formation to accommodate this - I have faith he can do that, there are many on here that don't. I think it's unfair to call him tactically inept but it's also a stretch to say he has all the answers.

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JamesBCFC

JamesBCFC

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1 hour ago, pillred said:

we are a mid table, side you wonder why people moan you answered  your own post, some people are happy with that and good luck to them, some like me are hoping we become more than that, and at the moment we look as far away from that as ever. SL in his heart of hearts must be a little disappointed with that or at least I hope he is. 

Do we ****

We look exactly a mid table side.

A couple of years ago we looked relegation fodder.

 

Have a go at rearranging the words on the next line.

Grip, get, a.

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Judda

Judda

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14 hours ago, Cider red said:

Ok I have previously called for LJ and even Lansdown to go in the past; so call me a hypocrit.

Who are we? Bristol city; who haven't been in the top flight since the late 70s/ early 80s. 5 years ago we were staring relegation to league two in the face. 

When Johnson came in we had been in the bottom 3 most of the season; since then we have become a steady championship club. 

Today we lost at reading; disappointing; let's look at the game; most of the ball; more pressure on goal; we were guilty of giving it away in poor positions which ultimately cost us. They scored a 40 yarder; on another day we get atleast a point. 

People calling for Johnson's head; we are a mid table side; that's where we are. Who will come in and make us better? We're not far off Imo. As I've just said in another thread, be careful what you wish for; ask Ipswich! 

The fact that every fan in the division are saying the same thing as they lose to sides they expect to beat says a lot about the difficulty of championship football...

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pillred

pillred

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8 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

Do we ****

We look exactly a mid table side.

A couple of years ago we looked relegation fodder.

 

Have a go at rearranging the words on the next line.

Grip, get, a.

read the post more carefully next time, I can see we are a mid table side that's the point,  I'm not happy with that, and we are indeed as far from becoming more than that as ever. 

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Huntstile Red

Huntstile Red

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17 hours ago, Cider red said:

As I've just said in another thread, be careful what you wish for; ask Ipswich! 

Or be careful what you wish for, like Southampton when they went up under that physio with the poems and got rid of him, followed by several currently unbroken years in the top div. It can work both ways (although, yes, mostly the crap way, and knowing us we wouldn't replace a physio with the Potch).

But I'm all for your realism. It's not lacking ambition to say we are a midtable team, esp having sold £Xm of talent last year and not replaced it with like for like (Webster is excellent but won't score 8 this season, I suspect). Lacking ambition is coming out to say, "Our aim is not promotion". We all want that, but not everyone can go up! Funny that. We can hope to develop more young ones or buy good & young and gel them to make the playoffs, but realistically there are more than 8 teams either doing that better than us already or spending and gelling well. Well gel.

I'm all for realism. Plus a good, healthy dose of surrealism, too.

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Cider red

Cider red

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36 minutes ago, Huntstile Red said:

Or be careful what you wish for, like Southampton when they went up under that physio with the poems and got rid of him, followed by several currently unbroken years in the top div. It can work both ways (although, yes, mostly the crap way, and knowing us we wouldn't replace a physio with the Potch).

But I'm all for your realism. It's not lacking ambition to say we are a midtable team, esp having sold £Xm of talent last year and not replaced it with like for like (Webster is excellent but won't score 8 this season, I suspect). Lacking ambition is coming out to say, "Our aim is not promotion". We all want that, but not everyone can go up! Funny that. We can hope to develop more young ones or buy good & young and gel them to make the playoffs, but realistically there are more than 8 teams either doing that better than us already or spending and gelling well. Well gel.

I'm all for realism. Plus a good, healthy dose of surrealism, too.

Well said; I'm not saying we shouldn't all want to do better; we could for Sure! Just think we need to take stock and look at how far we've come since the odriscoll days; if the form continues and we end up near the wrong end of the league after another 8/10 games or so however; the Johnson out brigade may have more leverage.

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JamesBCFC

JamesBCFC

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6 hours ago, pillred said:

read the post more carefully next time, I can see we are a mid table side that's the point,  I'm not happy with that, and we are indeed as far from becoming more than that as ever. 

I don't need to read it again, your post makes no sense.

Given the club has quite clearly progressed to become the mid table side, how can we be "as far from becoming more than a mid table side as ever"?

Your post contains no logic at all and my point still stands.

 

We are closer to becoming more than a mid table side now than we were 2 years ago for example.

Closer than we have been at any point for the best part of a decade.

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