Jump to content
IGNORED

Relegation battle


Full nelson

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Square that with finances?

That said his recruitment, tactics and man management could all be improved- but the club lost 25 million last season, so we're in a fairly tight spot- or were until the sales this summer.

Whilst you are totally correct we must stop falling into the trap of believing it's all about money.

Money does come It to it, of course it does, but it is far from the only factor.

I asked the question yesterday -.imagine FFP did not exist, and SL gave our HC £100m next summer to spend on players, would LJ get us promoted?

I have huge doubts that he would.

On a separate point I wonder if the players, the coaching team the CEO and the owner actually truly want it - would put them all in a much higher level of exposure and a much higher risk of failure and what that might mean indivually.

The three regulars that left in the summer wanted it - maybe some of those left are happy and comfortable at this level.

#toocosy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, pillred said:

and on current form, and all round performances I beg to differ.

Current form has us 15th over the last six games.

https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/championship/form-guide

I called for LJs head yesterday. I think he has no idea what he is doing, and I am certainly not defending him. But I deal in facts. And to say our form is relegation form is absolutely wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Wanderingred said:

Current form has us 15th over the last six games.

https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/championship/form-guide

I called for LJs head yesterday. I think he has no idea what he is doing, and I am certainly not defending him. But I deal in facts. And to say our form is relegation form is absolutely wrong.

So do you want him gone or not ???

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bit of perspective helps.... Looking at facts, we have finished In the top half of the championship about 3 times in around 40 years... 

Last year was one of those times and that is where we are positioned now. 

I agree we should look to improve but we do need to be realistic. 

We are producing some fantastic footballers in the academy . That’s something to be proud of. Personally I love it that we have local lads in the team/ squad.

Teams such as forest, Middlesbrough, Stoke, Leeds, West Brom etc spend 10-16million on one player... surely we know better than other clubs the risk to the club if we spend silly money. We should not compete with that. We sing (well some do) about the 8 that saved this football team often enough!

We are roughly where we should be so the time to get hysterical about losing runs and relegation is when we are in those positions, at the moment we aren’t. 

That said.. We should defo look at 352 or 433 tho (if only) given the decent players we have. 

 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Everyone loves to predict the next Johnson bad patch, but we’ve had just as many good patches.....

Have we? Didn’t we have a ‘bad patch’ along the lines of 2 wins in 24 games from October 2016 to March 2017 under LJ? So you think we’ve had a similar ‘good patch’ - so that would be 2 defeats in 24 games? I don’t remember that good patch.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ZiderEyed said:

The allegation I was challenging was that we were in relegation FORM. Surely you'd say that if that FORM was manifesting itself, we'd be in the relegation places, not in midtable?

Oh yeah we were shit against Reading and have been very shit for a few games now. Performances from a few players have been shocking. Still midtable though.

as we speak yes, it could go either way, at the moment my money would be on lower in the table, hope I'm  wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Wanderingred said:

Current form has us 15th over the last six games.

https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/championship/form-guide

I called for LJs head yesterday. I think he has no idea what he is doing, and I am certainly not defending him. But I deal in facts. And to say our form is relegation form is absolutely wrong.

alright then, over the last two games? look I'm joking but our form and by that I mean how we have played stoke second half aside has not been encouraging, we suddenly can't seem to string a whole game performance and our forwards have lost the ability to score regularly, and the defence suddenly doesn't fill me with confidence though knowing city they are quite likely to go on a season changing run.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

Whilst you are totally correct we must stop falling into the trap of believing it's all about money.

Money does come It to it, of course it does, but it is far from the only factor.

I asked the question yesterday -.imagine FFP did not exist, and SL gave our HC £100m next summer to spend on players, would LJ get us promoted?

I have huge doubts that he would.

On a separate point I wonder if the players, the coaching team the CEO and the owner actually truly want it - would put them all in a much higher level of exposure and a much higher risk of failure and what that might mean indivually.

The three regulars that left in the summer wanted it - maybe some of those left are happy and comfortable at this level.

#toocosy

I think 100m to LJ would get us promoted, but I see what you're saying.

Don't think he's getting the best out of what he has at his disposal for a start.

His tactics are questionable, his selections are hit and miss- good players, players we do sign with a decent level seem to regress-

Kalas was fairly highly sought after this summer for a start, with 2 promotions and playoff at this level past 3 seasons Yet I'd argue he has now dipped. Man management leaves something to be desired. 

Yet this season always likely to be fairly transitional this season IMO- thought so in August.

Perhaps those at the club are happy to just play at a standard Championship level, it's hard to say though- guess for some there maybe an element of self a preservation in that sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Have we? Didn’t we have a ‘bad patch’ along the lines of 2 wins in 24 games from October 2016 to March 2017 under LJ? So you think we’ve had a similar ‘good patch’ - so that would be 2 defeats in 24 games? I don’t remember that good patch.....

We had a patch that took us to 2nd in the division at Christmas. And Johnson’s overall record includes 48 wins v 40 defeats. So quite clearly overall the good spells at least equal out the bad ones. Inconvenient for the preferred narrative, I know.

http://www.managerstats.co.uk/clubs/bristol-city/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

We had a patch that took us to 2nd in the division at Christmas. And Johnson’s overall record includes 48 wins v 40 defeats. So quite clearly overall the good spells at least equal out the bad ones. Inconvenient for the preferred narrative, I know.

http://www.managerstats.co.uk/clubs/bristol-city/

‘Inconvenient for the preferred narrative’ is the sort of patronising language that alienates fans of differing opinions....it’s the same as people using the hideous ‘agenda’ word on here when it’s clear that no one has an actual agenda.....LJ divides opinion, as do most football managers amongst their fanbases...... it’s just debate....ours is renowned for long, dismal runs....they can’t be ignored or brushed under the carpet, but at the moment he’s doing ok....but the people on here who say we are now an ‘established championship club’ are a bit premature - we are far from that....two flirts with relegation and plummeting from 2nd to the depths isn’t the sign of an established club at this level....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, pillred said:

alright then, over the last two games? look I'm joking but our form and by that I mean how we have played stoke second half aside has not been encouraging, we suddenly can't seem to string a whole game performance and our forwards have lost the ability to score regularly, and the defence suddenly doesn't fill me with confidence though knowing city they are quite likely to go on a season changing run.

Could it be said that we are already on a "season changing run" with eight points out of the last twenty seven?

Were we not briefly in a play off position after the Sheff U game? And now seven places lower?

If it becomes ten points from thirty six at end of November, where will we be then? Sixteenth?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Wanderingred said:

Current form has us 15th over the last six games.

https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/championship/form-guide

I called for LJs head yesterday. I think he has no idea what he is doing, and I am certainly not defending him. But I deal in facts. And to say our form is relegation form is absolutely wrong.

Form table over the last 8 games puts us 19th? 

Our collapse in form from the 30 Dec 2017 spans 38 games with a record of:

10 wins 12 draws 16 defeats 42 pts

In our next 7 games we have - Leeds A Birmingham A Norwich H and Derby A.  

My concern is we could get sucked in down the bottom with those fixtures and it's hard to get away once you're down there.

I'm perfectly fine with midtable but can't be helped but be concerned with our recent form as well as upcoming fixtures.  Preston and Ipswich are 2 games we really need to take 3 points from with some very tough games coming up.  I'd rather not be drawn down there for even a short amount of time because of the damage in confidence it could do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Bristol is red said:

Form table over the last 8 games puts us 19th? 

Our collapse in form from the 30 Dec 2017 spans 38 games with a record of:

10 wins 12 draws 16 defeats 42 pts

In our next 7 games we have - Leeds A Birmingham A Norwich H and Derby A.  

My concern is we could get sucked in down the bottom with those fixtures and it's hard to get away once you're down there.

I'm perfectly fine with midtable but can't be helped but be concerned with our recent form as well as upcoming fixtures.  Preston and Ipswich are 2 games we really need to take 3 points from with some very tough games coming up.  I'd rather not be drawn down there for even a short amount of time because of the damage in confidence it could do.

Theres always the transfer window and some shrewd signings that may help us............or not

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, The Bard said:

We are bang average lets be honest.  We should have enough to comfortably stay up, but the idea of us seriously challenging for promotion?  Nonsense.  Biggest worry is over reliance on particular players.

Bang average may be fair enough , but honestly, in all my time supporting City (I am 59 and I started aged 4) I honestly believe mid table “ Second Division” is our natural level. When we were in (old money) Division One, my prevailing thought was “ I can’t believe this” when we were in the third and fourth level, my prevailing thought was “ we are better than this”. I’m not unambitious, I would love to see us playing the Machesters, Chelski, Tott’nam etc every week, but where we are right now feels, in an odd way “right” to me, so I’m struggling to feel gutted by it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Southport Red said:

Bang average may be fair enough , but honestly, in all my time supporting City (I am 59 and I started aged 4) I honestly believe mid table “ Second Division” is our natural level. When we were in (old money) Division One, my prevailing thought was “ I can’t believe this” when we were in the third and fourth level, my prevailing thought was “ we are better than this”. I’m not unambitious, I would love to see us playing the Machesters, Chelski, Tott’nam etc every week, but where we are right now feels, in an odd way “right” to me, so I’m struggling to feel gutted by it. 

Agree completely with this - we are where we should be in the grand scheme of things.  But we have spurned the chances to be right amongst it - yesterday being the latest.  I've said before and someone said it on here earlier that from what I have seen it feels that the standard of the league as a whole is pretty poor this year in comparison with other seasons and as such this season should've provided us with a great opportunity to reach the play offs at least.  Don't think that's going to happen now unfortunately.  Also the style of football currently is pretty uninspiring - which it needn't be even if we are going to remain mid table - and I think that seems to be disheartening people as as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, Southport Red said:

Bang average may be fair enough , but honestly, in all my time supporting City (I am 59 and I started aged 4) I honestly believe mid table “ Second Division” is our natural level. When we were in (old money) Division One, my prevailing thought was “ I can’t believe this” when we were in the third and fourth level, my prevailing thought was “ we are better than this”. I’m not unambitious, I would love to see us playing the Machesters, Chelski, Tott’nam etc every week, but where we are right now feels, in an odd way “right” to me, so I’m struggling to feel gutted by it. 

Roughly the same. 

My fear though is that we are showing all the signs of our regular drops back to the third division. 

The only difference this time is that there is a remote hope that some Academy products might save us. That feels a bit like desperation of the Terry Cooper era -  and LJ ain’t fit to tie Terry’s laces in terms of managerial capabilities. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, glen humphries said:

Do you think if any other manager would of stayed in the job after our record losing run , the 6-0 at Preston, any other manager would of been gone lj gets special treatment no doubt about it

If we had lost 6-0 at Preston then maybe Johnson would have been sacked...

But it really is time to stop pressing the lie of "Johnson is unsackable"/"Johnson would still be manager if we were relegated to League 1".

In 2017, as that awful run was nearing its end it was said in an interview that their had been a board meeting and the decision was made to stick with Johnson. If Johnson's job was as safe as you claim, that meeting would NEVER have happened.

Time to leave the "unsackable" lie behind and come back to reality.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

‘Inconvenient for the preferred narrative’ is the sort of patronising language that alienates fans of differing opinions....it’s the same as people using the hideous ‘agenda’ word on here when it’s clear that no one has an actual agenda.....LJ divides opinion, as do most football managers amongst their fanbases...... it’s just debate....ours is renowned for long, dismal runs....they can’t be ignored or brushed under the carpet, but at the moment he’s doing ok....but the people on here who say we are now an ‘established championship club’ are a bit premature - we are far from that....two flirts with relegation and plummeting from 2nd to the depths isn’t the sign of an established club at this level....

And no one is.

What does get brushed under the carpet or ignored is the fact there must have been something to balance those runs, otherwise we wouldn't be in this league.

Equally, what "depths" did we "plummet" to last season? 11th place wasn't it? Just a bit hyperbolic, and that is also exactly the type of thing that alienates fans.

 

We are all well aware of the bad runs, and there is absolutely no need to use hyperbole to exaggerate them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

And no one is.

What does get brushed under the carpet or ignored is the fact there must have been something to balance those runs, otherwise we wouldn't be in this league.

Equally, what "depths" did we "plummet" to last season? 11th place wasn't it? Just a bit hyperbolic, and that is also exactly the type of thing that alienates fans.

 

We are all well aware of the bad runs, and there is absolutely no need to use hyperbole to exaggerate them.

I didn’t exaggerate the bad runs James - I simply mentioned them, if I was going to exaggerate them I would have posted that they were longer than they actually were, but I didn’t do that, so I didn’t exaggerate them in any way whatsoever....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

I didn’t exaggerate the bad runs James - I simply mentioned them, if I was going to exaggerate them I would have posted that they were longer than they actually were, but I didn’t do that, so I didn’t exaggerate them in any way whatsoever....

No, but you exagerated our drop off last season caused by the most recent bad run.

Describing our highest finish for the best part of a decade as "plummeting to the depths"

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a very good reason why are form differs from one week to the next and we have no consistency in 90 mins home or away and it's because we don't practice the basics on the training field hence why we concead the same soft goals from letting the ball bounce on the 18yrd box or sit deep in midfield and back off till it's to late. Same mistakes over and over and until he sorts that out we will unfortunately be in more trouble than not..... BASICS = CONSISTENCY = PTS.... it's really not rocket which is why the likes of TP and NW are successful in there jobs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, glen humphries said:

So do you want him gone or not ???

I'm fairly sure that he's holding this club back, and cannot deliver what we need. So yes I'd like to see him replaced sooner or later but I will still call out those who are making false claims. We are not in relegation form. And even if we were, it would be far too early to start panicking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

If we had lost 6-0 at Preston then maybe Johnson would have been sacked...

But it really is time to stop pressing the lie of "Johnson is unsackable"/"Johnson would still be manager if we were relegated to League 1".

In 2017, as that awful run was nearing its end it was said in an interview that their had been a board meeting and the decision was made to stick with Johnson. If Johnson's job was as safe as you claim, that meeting would NEVER have happened.

Time to leave the "unsackable" lie behind and come back to reality.

Do you think any other manager would of survived that run of results and the performance at Preston , I certainly don’t ?.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, glen humphries said:

Do you think any other manager would of survived that run of results and the performance at Preston , I certainly don’t ?.

Yes.

Lansdown has been pretty consistent with what results in a sacking over the last decade, Gary Johnson aside.

Namely, being engaged in a serious relegation battle for a prolonged time, that wasn't the case here.

 

We did end up in a bit of a scrap at the end of the season, but only the latter few months- we had been in the playoffs as late as November that season, and a serious discussion was had about sacking Lee Johnson, so quite evidently he is not "unsackable".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could be argued that we are and have had better underlying performances than our results- if that is the case then it should even out in due course- which is why I don't see relegation as any particular concern.

DrLVW_sXcAAn_Y3.jpg:large

Dunno if it uses the same methods as the excellent Experimental 3-6-1 but this paints a somewhat different picture to the prevailing mood.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...