A view from the outside

[Lez]

Good evening everyone i am a long talk observer but thought I would give my view on the side and where we are.

I personally am becoming slightly disillusioned with everything BCFC and thats largely due to our performances on the pitch.

Im finding it really dull, i wouldnt mind us playing defensive workmanlike tenacious football if there was clear understanding and progress gping forward. I dont feel this progress is being made in terms of our style, structure and players understanding. Lee has been with us for some time now and i dont see clear direction. I think the Championship is very average this year (big clubs in a whole) with no standouts (i.e newcastles, wolves) and a great opportunity for average champ clubs....but we dont seem close.

I think our signings have been confused. We dont have a proper goalscorer, Diedhiou will get goals but disrupts our play whilst Weimann and Taylor are not going to get goals consistently at this level....they are not those type of players.

I do question the Diedhiou signing....not an LJ player and someone not worth the substantial money we have payed. Got goals last season granted but all round i feel a disappointment.

I do feel Lee is stuck in the mud, he doesnt know our best side, he doesnt know our best formation....he signs big names such as Kalas Baker etc but we continue to conceed really poor goals. I think it is very disappointing 3? Years later there is no real sign of philosophy and structure to our side.

I know people argue that we are now established, that is great, but i do think this seasons championship is very average. Norwich are top after all.

I think our formation is confused, our signings have been confused, and i think our manager is confused....this is resulting in poor performances with little excitement and maybe Lee has run out of ideas.

[glen humphries]

10 minutes ago, Lez said:

Good evening everyone i am a long talk observer but thought I would give my view on the side and where we are.

I personally am becoming slightly disillusioned with everything BCFC and thats largely due to our performances on the pitch.

Im finding it really dull, i wouldnt mind us playing defensive workmanlike tenacious football if there was clear understanding and progress gping forward. I dont feel this progress is being made in terms of our style, structure and players understanding. Lee has been with us for some time now and i dont see clear direction. I think the Championship is very average this year (big clubs in a whole) with no standouts (i.e newcastles, wolves) and a great opportunity for average champ clubs....but we dont seem close.

I think our signings have been confused. We dont have a proper goalscorer, Diedhiou will get goals but disrupts our play whilst Weimann and Taylor are not going to get goals consistently at this level....they are not those type of players.

I do question the Diedhiou signing....not an LJ player and someone not worth the substantial money we have payed. Got goals last season granted but all round i feel a disappointment.

I do feel Lee is stuck in the mud, he doesnt know our best side, he doesnt know our best formation....he signs big names such as Kalas Baker etc but we continue to conceed really poor goals. I think it is very disappointing 3? Years later there is no real sign of philosophy and structure to our side.

I know people argue that we are now established, that is great, but i do think this seasons championship is very average. Norwich are top after all.

I think our formation is confused, our signings have been confused, and i think our manager is confused....this is resulting in poor performances with little excitement and maybe Lee has run out of ideas.

Don’t think he’s run out of ideas just most of his ideas are poor, he over thinks things we need to concentrate on what we’re good at not constantly worry about the opposition.

[Robbored]

17 minutes ago, Lez said:

Good evening everyone i am a long talk observer but thought I would give my view on the side and where we are.

I personally am becoming slightly disillusioned with everything BCFC and thats largely due to our performances on the pitch.

Im finding it really dull, i wouldnt mind us playing defensive workmanlike tenacious football if there was clear understanding and progress gping forward. I dont feel this progress is being made in terms of our style, structure and players understanding. Lee has been with us for some time now and i dont see clear direction. I think the Championship is very average this year (big clubs in a whole) with no standouts (i.e newcastles, wolves) and a great opportunity for average champ clubs....but we dont seem close.

I think our signings have been confused. We dont have a proper goalscorer, Diedhiou will get goals but disrupts our play whilst Weimann and Taylor are not going to get goals consistently at this level....they are not those type of players.

I do question the Diedhiou signing....not an LJ player and someone not worth the substantial money we have payed. Got goals last season granted but all round i feel a disappointment.

I do feel Lee is stuck in the mud, he doesnt know our best side, he doesnt know our best formation....he signs big names such as Kalas Baker etc but we continue to conceed really poor goals. I think it is very disappointing 3? Years later there is no real sign of philosophy and structure to our side.

I know people argue that we are now established, that is great, but i do think this seasons championship is very average. Norwich are top after all.

I think our formation is confused, our signings have been confused, and i think our manager is confused....this is resulting in poor performances with little excitement and maybe Lee has run out of ideas.

So you’re saying that LJ is just like his dad then.

[screech]

He takes too long to react to what's happening on the ground, he sets him teams up too cautionary from the off and when he stumbled across a formation which actually worked he changed it as soon as he could because it didn't fit his vision of formation and personnel. Apart from that he's perfect.

[Keepers Ball]

Summed up brilliantly by the OP

[Jerseybean]

Lez IMO you provide a good summary of the current situation. In another thread Ole and BTRFTG both discuss, in some detail, the problems on the pitch.

Not long ago LJ was keen to refer to our personality, identity, DNA and style.....right now these would best be described as bland, ineffective, fearful, sterile and lacking ambition.

While I think we are no more than a mid-table Championship club we could surely attain this status by playing with more ambition, flair and guts than is currently the case which as you say right now is  ‘dull’ and ‘confused’.

Someone once said that football is a simple game made complicated only by the opposition (or words to that effect) it often seems to me that rather than setting out to play football the Bristol City way (whatever that is) LJ sets out to change things in light of the opposition, meaning we don’t have a set way of playing, this lack of identify is certainly frustrating for fans and presumably for players to.

 

[Fiale]

1 hour ago, Lez said:

Good evening everyone i am a long talk observer but thought I would give my view on the side and where we are.

I personally am becoming slightly disillusioned with everything BCFC and thats largely due to our performances on the pitch.

Im finding it really dull, i wouldnt mind us playing defensive workmanlike tenacious football if there was clear understanding and progress gping forward. I dont feel this progress is being made in terms of our style, structure and players understanding. Lee has been with us for some time now and i dont see clear direction. I think the Championship is very average this year (big clubs in a whole) with no standouts (i.e newcastles, wolves) and a great opportunity for average champ clubs....but we dont seem close.

I think our signings have been confused. We dont have a proper goalscorer, Diedhiou will get goals but disrupts our play whilst Weimann and Taylor are not going to get goals consistently at this level....they are not those type of players.

I do question the Diedhiou signing....not an LJ player and someone not worth the substantial money we have payed. Got goals last season granted but all round i feel a disappointment.

I do feel Lee is stuck in the mud, he doesnt know our best side, he doesnt know our best formation....he signs big names such as Kalas Baker etc but we continue to conceed really poor goals. I think it is very disappointing 3? Years later there is no real sign of philosophy and structure to our side.

I know people argue that we are now established, that is great, but i do think this seasons championship is very average. Norwich are top after all.

I think our formation is confused, our signings have been confused, and i think our manager is confused....this is resulting in poor performances with little excitement and maybe Lee has run out of ideas.

 

 

Kalas and Webster are improvements but cannot cover the entire back line and are being let down by LB / RB - De Silva and Hunt are both better going forward than defending, the other options i.e. Pisano also does not inspire confidence.  LB / RB should probably be Kelly and Wright (when fit) this would give us a much better foundation to build on.  We are often outnumbered in the middle,  yet still somehow have no width due to playing so narrow - it's infuriating, we are losing out in midfield and not gaining anything wide.

Anyway... this season has been pretty poor, any hope to build on last season and learn from the Christmas onwards spell has been shattered. We are currently a worse team, playing worse football, so am feeling a little disappointed atm I also don't buy into the "whole new team" thing, we sold three players - yes they were our best players (Though I would say Kalas / Webster / Kelly probably are close to those lost) - it just seems some poor recruitment over the last three years is biting us in ass, and now we have used up pretty much the last of SC's signings we have a pretty bare uninspiring cupboard.

[steviestevieneville]

56 minutes ago, glen humphries said:

Don’t think he’s run out of ideas just most of his ideas are poor, he over thinks things we need to concentrate on what we’re good at not constantly worry about the opposition.

He definitely over think’s things. He thinks he’s a better coach than he actually is imo. Good managers have a philosophy , a style  of play that they stick to, a clear way of playing. He seems to change like the wind after every defeat. He’s not going anywhere but I have no confidence in the bloke at all. 

[glen humphries]

5 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

He definitely over think’s things. He thinks he’s a better coach than he actually is imo. Good managers have a philosophy , a style  of play that they stick to, a clear way of playing. He seems to change like the wind after every defeat. He’s not going anywhere but I have no confidence in the bloke at all. 

Couldn’t agree more mate, there’s an arrogance about him , yet his done **** all to be arrogant about.

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

He definitely over think’s things. He thinks he’s a better coach than he actually is imo. Good managers have a philosophy , a style  of play that they stick to, a clear way of playing. He seems to change like the wind after every defeat. He’s not going anywhere but I have no confidence in the bloke at all. 

Said many times before I'd like to see him stick to his principles, but he flits.

9 minutes ago, glen humphries said:

Couldn’t agree more mate, there’s an arrogance about him , yet his done **** all to be arrogant about.

Yes, in football terms.  Away from football he is down to earth, but I think he changes once he enters the football-world.

He really could do with a proper footballing Director of Football.  Don't want to bring up Rovers, but Lenny Lawrence was excellent DoF for Paul Trollope.  LJ is in danger of going from the 8th best coach in Europe (his words) to a journeyman.  He won't get a big job unless he makes a success here.  I don't see us being successful under his tenure.  I hope he proves me wrong...but I just see too many flaws.

[CodeRed]

13 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

He definitely over think’s things. He thinks he’s a better coach than he actually is imo. Good managers have a philosophy , a style  of play that they stick to, a clear way of playing. He seems to change like the wind after every defeat. He’s not going anywhere but I have no confidence in the bloke at all. 

I agree with the "over thinking" , he tries to be too clever.........I think he believes he can win the game on the tactics board in the coach's room the day before the game.

He gives the usual " It's about what we do" during the pre match presser but come matchday he chops and changes the side around..........the obsession with the out of form Patterson is baffling.

[ScottishRed]

29 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

He definitely over think’s things. He thinks he’s a better coach than he actually is imo. Good managers have a philosophy , a style  of play that they stick to, a clear way of playing. He seems to change like the wind after every defeat. He’s not going anywhere but I have no confidence in the bloke at all. 

100% agree.

He needs some experience beside him, not two mates who are equally incompetent.

[ScottishRed]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Said many times before I'd like to see him stick to his principles, but he flits.

Yes, in football terms.  Away from football he is down to earth, but I think he changes once he enters the football-world.

He really could do with a proper footballing Director of Football.  Don't want to bring up Rovers, but Lenny Lawrence was excellent DoF for Paul Trollope.  LJ is in danger of going from the 8th best coach in Europe (his words) to a journeyman.  He won't get a big job unless he makes a success here.  I don't see us being successful under his tenure.  I hope he proves me wrong...but I just see too many flaws.

Please tell me Dave, that you have had an excellent Sunday lunch and a few 'refreshments and you have got that confused.............

I don't know whether to laugh or cry........

[glen humphries]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Said many times before I'd like to see him stick to his principles, but he flits.

Yes, in football terms.  Away from football he is down to earth, but I think he changes once he enters the football-world.

He really could do with a proper footballing Director of Football.  Don't want to bring up Rovers, but Lenny Lawrence was excellent DoF for Paul Trollope.  LJ is in danger of going from the 8th best coach in Europe (his words) to a journeyman.  He won't get a big job unless he makes a success here.  I don't see us being successful under his tenure.  I hope he proves me wrong...but I just see too many flaws.

Did he really say that about his coaching ability 

[glen humphries]

6 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

100% agree.

He needs some experience beside him, not two mates who are equally incompetent.

Been a problem at the club many times before, theirs still a jobs for the boys culture.

[lenred]

4 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

Please tell me Dave, that you have had an excellent Sunday lunch and a few 'refreshments and you have got that confused.............

I don't know whether to laugh or cry........

Hope that if he did say it that he was joking.  There's confidence granted, but if he truly thinks that then he's not confident, he is delusional!

[glen humphries]

2 minutes ago, lenred said:

Hope that if he did say it that he was joking.  There's confidence granted, but if he truly thinks that then he's not confident, he is delusional!

He can’t of been serious surely, I thought the dog fiddler down the rd was delusional but ffs.

[exAtyeoMax]

I'm baffled by his apparent lack of in-game management. I've got no idea about football, tactics, formations etc., but I expect the head coach to at least look like he/she knows what to do during a match to affect play, he looks totally ineffectual. 

 

* Peter Carol is 7th

[Nbafc]

20 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Said many times before I'd like to see him stick to his principles, but he flits.

Yes, in football terms.  Away from football he is down to earth, but I think he changes once he enters the football-world.

He really could do with a proper footballing Director of Football.  Don't want to bring up Rovers, but Lenny Lawrence was excellent DoF for Paul Trollope.  LJ is in danger of going from the 8th best coach in Europe (his words) to a journeyman.  He won't get a big job unless he makes a success here.  I don't see us being successful under his tenure.  I hope he proves me wrong...but I just see too many flaws.

This is exactly what I feel our club is crying out for, and has been on and off for years (I think I remember Tinnion, post sacking, saying that he had requested a DoF during his tenure). 

Someone with a wealth of experience and some pedigree. Not in the business of football but in the game of football. They won't be growing on trees, but if it was a priority surely could be done. 

That should make it easier when, inevitably, a new HC is needed, and minimise the disruption caused. The club was stripped of so much inbetween the Johnson snr departure to Cotterill's appointment. Never want those times to return. 

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, glen humphries said:

Don’t think he’s run out of ideas just most of his ideas are poor, he over thinks things we need to concentrate on what we’re good at not constantly worry about the opposition.

This absolutely.

worrying about the opposition means constantly changing personnel and style to counter a perceived threat.

Doing this is bound to make it more difficult to establish and develop our own style and become a threat the opposition have to think about.

[Fpcity]

1 hour ago, glen humphries said:

Don’t think he’s run out of ideas just most of his ideas are poor, he over thinks things we need to concentrate on what we’re good at not constantly worry about the opposition.

Exactly how I see the problem with Johnson. 

He's more worried about trying to out smart the opposition manager so he can look clever then giving his team a clear idea about how they play 9/10 games. In that one odd game where he actually succeseds then people on here are quick to defend him and cream over how much much of a genius he is and how he learnt it all from the man City training pitch while he was there years ago. 

Just go out and play to our strengths. Might get the odd thumping but that's football, let the players enjoy themselves 

[Crisis what Crisis ?]

39 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Said many times before I'd like to see him stick to his principles, but he flits.

Yes, in football terms.  Away from football he is down to earth, but I think he changes once he enters the football-world.

He really could do with a proper footballing Director of Football.  Don't want to bring up Rovers, but Lenny Lawrence was excellent DoF for Paul Trollope.  LJ is in danger of going from the 8th best coach in Europe (his words) to a journeyman.  He won't get a big job unless he makes a success here.  I don't see us being successful under his tenure.  I hope he proves me wrong...but I just see too many flaws.

...thanks for that Dave.....best laugh i've had in ages

[BTRFTG]

Interesting that today's press (for what it's worth these days,) has our focus on next acquiring another right back (doubtless variously described as versatile, interchangable et al.)

If the next signing isn't a creative midfielder or striker then we'll finally have confirmation WeeLee's out of his depth.

[Mtimmy11]

58 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Said many times before I'd like to see him stick to his principles, but he flits.

Yes, in football terms.  Away from football he is down to earth, but I think he changes once he enters the football-world.

He really could do with a proper footballing Director of Football.  Don't want to bring up Rovers, but Lenny Lawrence was excellent DoF for Paul Trollope.  LJ is in danger of going from the 8th best coach in Europe (his words) to a journeyman.  He won't get a big job unless he makes a success here.  I don't see us being successful under his tenure.  I hope he proves me wrong...but I just see too many flaws.

If driving around Bristol in a £100,000 Range Rover,wearing £400 ray bans is down to earth, could you give me a sub

[CityCiderEd]

Constant changes and playing people out of form/position is hurting us.After the WBA game their fans said we were the best side they've seen at the Hawthorns this season.Since then on all the away teams forums we have been described as one of the poorest teams they've seen and in that time the team has been chopped and changed regularly.

[Major Isewater]

Exactly what we need on OTIB a thinly veiled " Johnson Out " thread , good work .

[Lrrr]

30 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Interesting that today's press (for what it's worth these days,) has our focus on next acquiring another right back (doubtless variously described as versatile, interchangable et al.)

If the next signing isn't a creative midfielder or striker then we'll finally have confirmation WeeLee's out of his depth.

Pisano will be off in the summer, why not recruit a RB if the right one is available in January?

[steviestevieneville]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Said many times before I'd like to see him stick to his principles, but he flits.

Yes, in football terms.  Away from football he is down to earth, but I think he changes once he enters the football-world.

He really could do with a proper footballing Director of Football.  Don't want to bring up Rovers, but Lenny Lawrence was excellent DoF for Paul Trollope.  LJ is in danger of going from the 8th best coach in Europe (his words) to a journeyman.  He won't get a big job unless he makes a success here.  I don't see us being successful under his tenure.  I hope he proves me wrong...but I just see too many flaws.

Couldn’t agree more Dave. I try to think of it from a players perspective as well . I’d have no faith in him with the constant chopping and changing. One thing he said that always stuck with me was after we stayed up in his first season. He admitted to uncomplicating things for the players and keeping it simple in the run in. That in itself proves he does over complicate in general imo. Sometimes it feels like he’s playing football manager with our club and no matter what SL says , I don’t believe there’s much pressure on him. 

[Davefevs]

Ok, I missed an important word....”8th best young coach...”.  Apologies.  But to actually come out and say that is incredulous!!!  He later re-used it on a bad run and said he’d gone from 8th best young coach in Europe to something else, but I can’t remember exactly what it was.

I so want him to do well.

I think it is because I want all City managers to do well.

But every time he gets into credit with me, he goes and does something that frustrates me.

With a near-fit squad, options all-over the pitch now, it really is down to him.  It is his players, his formation, his style.  No excuses now.  The recent Financial figures show he had significant backing last season.  SL has made sure he hasn’t been allowed to go to the Candy Store in the summer.

 

[Lrrr]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Ok, I missed an important word....”8th best young coach...”.  Apologies.  But to actually come out and say that is incredulous!!!  He later re-used it on a bad run and said he’d gone from 8th best young coach in Europe to something else, but I can’t remember exactly what it was.

I so want him to do well.

I think it is because I want all City managers to do well.

But every time he gets into credit with me, he goes and does something that frustrates me.

With a near-fit squad, options all-over the pitch now, it really is down to him.  It is his players, his formation, his style.  No excuses now.  The recent Financial figures show he had significant backing last season.  SL has made sure he hasn’t been allowed to go to the Candy Store in the summer.

 

Wasn't that from a magazine or online based source that published an article though?

Found it, 442 magazine did a 8 best managers under 40 thing - https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/8-worlds-best-young-managers-under-40