The Poppy (Merged)

[Super]

Why on earth are footballers and other people getting slated for not wearing one? Surely it's a personal choice or am I wrong?

[Red-Robbo]

5 minutes ago, Super said:

Why on earth are footballers and other people getting slated for not wearing one? Surely it's a personal choice or am I wrong?

 

Correct. It seems every year the hysteria around this gets worse.

When I worked at the BBC the pressure to display one at work made me deliberately not wear one. I'd wear one outside of work, but I'm b******d if I'm going to be ordered to do so by some arse of a boss.

[UK0wnag3]

I find it ridiculous that James McClean has to go through the same media circus every year.

I bet Nemanja Matic doesn’t get the same vitriol...

As far as I’m concerned, we live in a free country, so let them be free to wear or not wear.

[BigTone]

13 minutes ago, Super said:

Why on earth are footballers and other people getting slated for not wearing one? Surely it's a personal choice or am I wrong?

I would think the same as yourself

[Super]

7 minutes ago, UK0wnag3 said:

I find it ridiculous that James McClean has to go through the same media circus every year.

I bet Nemanja Matic doesn’t get the same vitriol...

As far as I’m concerned, we live in a free country, so let them be free to wear or not wear.

Seems to be in trouble with the FA after social media comments.

[Crisis what Crisis ?]

 

19 minutes ago, UK0wnag3 said:

I find it ridiculous that James McClean has to go through the same media circus every year.

I bet Nemanja Matic doesn’t get the same vitriol...

As far as I’m concerned, we live in a free country, so let them be free to wear or not wear.

Awhhhh bless....i'm soooo sorry these poor little footballers and the rest of you  feel ' oppressed ' and ' pressured into showing some respect ONCE A YEAR !

.....and by the way, how the hell do you think you got to live in a ' free country '  if not for the sacrifice of others ?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Crisis what Crisis ? said:

 

Awhhhh bless....i'm soooo sorry these poor little footballers and the rest of you  feel ' oppressed ' and ' pressured into showing some respect ONCE A YEAR !

.....and by the way, how the hell do you think you got to live in a ' free country '  if not for the sacrifice of others ?

Maybe you should try to understand his personal reasons for not wanting to wear one.

The poppy is for all fallen soldiers, which would include those involved in the Bloody Sunday conflict. He's even said it if was a symbol of Remembrance for First and Second World War victims he would gladly wear one.  

He's showing his respects to those killed in Bloody Sunday; I don't personally agree with his decision, but I respect it. 

how the hell do you think you got to live in a ' free country '  if not for the sacrifice of others ?

How free is it when he's vilified for not wearing a badge of remembrance of all fallen Soldiers, including the likes that killed innocent protestors? 

[Undy English]

42 minutes ago, Super said:

Why on earth are footballers and other people getting slated for not wearing one? Surely it's a personal choice or am I wrong?

I have mixed feelings on this one.

Firstly, Stoke, as a club, have backed the Poppy Appeal. That means they support, endorse and promote the Appeal by having the image on shirts and media etc. A club is more than 1 person. So if you're part of the club surely it can't be one rule for 1 and one rule for another?

Secondly, WW2 notably was thought for freedom from Nazism/fascism/dictatorship, ensuring the people of Europe remain free to make their own decisions. So should an individual like McClean be allowed to decide whether or not he wears one?

But thirdly, and for me the biggest of all, is a matter of respect. If you live in someone else's country, who have certain traditions and practices, you should be a respectable guest and abide by these (and even if you do oppose it, simply keep a respectful silence). McClean does neither and has to make controversial statements each year about being a "proud fenian" and the Poppy being "blood-stained". He has to make it known he won't wear one in the Press via club statements. Players like Aguero, who's countrymen died fighting Britain for the Falklands, respectfully wears a Poppy when in England and makes no noise or loud commotion. Same when Tevez etc. were here. Only in Argentina do such players hold banners supporting their Falklands claims. But over here, in the UK, they wear the Poppy and retain a respectful silence. That's how it should be.

[Roger Red Hat]

19 minutes ago, Crisis what Crisis ? said:

 

Awhhhh bless....i'm soooo sorry these poor little footballers and the rest of you  feel ' oppressed ' and ' pressured into showing some respect ONCE A YEAR !

.....and by the way, how the hell do you think you got to live in a ' free country '  if not for the sacrifice of others ?

So that would be 'free' to choose not to wear one, if I'm understanding the term 'free country'.

[BS4 on Tour...]

Yes, it’s a personal choice in a free country.... so make your choice and get on with your life, there’s still no need to attention-seek with public condemnation of the poppy and try to belittle what it stands for...eg:

 

[Crisis what Crisis ?]

10 minutes ago, 29AR said:

Maybe you should try to understand his personal reasons for not wanting to wear one.

The poppy is for all fallen soldiers, which would include those involved in the Bloody Sunday conflict. He's even said it if was a symbol of Remembrance for First and Second World War victims he would gladly wear one.  

He's showing his respects to those killed in Bloody Sunday; I don't personally agree with his decision, but I respect it. 

how the hell do you think you got to live in a ' free country '  if not for the sacrifice of others ?

How free is it when he's vilified for not wearing a badge of remembrance of all fallen Soldiers, including the likes that killed innocent protestors? 

....so that's what you  want to do is it ?.....focus in on the inconclusive findings of the Saville report which took twelve years to compile and is generally regarded as being a witch hunt against British troops ....unbelievable ! The fact that this James McLean character wont wear a poppy because of his belief in a united Ireland is one thing but at the top of this thread you'll see it very quickly attracted the ' me too...' attitude of people just bemoaning the fact they feel societal bloody pressure to wear one.

And in answer to your question  'how free is it.....' i can tell you now a lot MORE free than it bloody well would have been .

[nebristolred]

37 minutes ago, Undy English said:

But thirdly, and for me the biggest of all, is a matter of respect. If you live in someone else's country, who have certain traditions and practices, you should be a respectable guest and abide by these (and even if you do oppose it, simply keep a respectful silence). McClean does neither and has to make controversial statements each year about being a "proud fenian" and the Poppy being "blood-stained".

But it IS blood-stained, particularly for someone from his background. He's even said that if it was just for victims from the two World Wars, he would wear it no problem. I get that you should respect traditions and practices, but given the British killed dozens of people in his hometown, well... put it this way, if I was him I wouldn't wear one either.

It's sad that I have to clarify this, but that's not to disrespect those who gave their lives for us in the World Wars. The problem is, the poppy has a subjective meaning. To one person it's a badge of respect and honour, but to another if it is nothing but a reminder of horrific times (especially given Britain's history over the years), then I see no not issue wearing it.

The mad thing is the hypocrisy of the symbol for those dying to fight for our freedoms, now being used to dictatorially tell people to wear it! 

It's all false tabloid hysteria anyway. The only ones who genuinely get angry over it are those thick enough to believe the papers.

[RedM]

But where do you draw the line, if a player doesn’t want to wear a poppy does he get to chose to sit out the minutes silence etc? As far as I know he does what his team mates do, which is what the club ( his employer) has decided. He could be going through his shopping list in his head for all we know, same with any other silence or applause.

I do agree though that an employer like the mentioned BBC have no right to tell you to wear something that isn’t part of your uniform ( which a football shirt could be classed as) or isn’t needed for health and safety reasons.

 

[shelts]

A very emotive subject. Choice through the sacrifice of others 

[Stortz]

1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Correct. It seems every year the hysteria around this gets worse.

 

Yep, part of the new cycle of outrage we endure annually now:

[Undy English]

7 minutes ago, nebristolred said:

But it IS blood-stained, particularly for someone from his background. He's even said that if it was just for victims from the two World Wars, he would wear it no problem. I get that you should respect traditions and practices, but given the British killed dozens of people in his hometown, well... put it this way, if I was him I wouldn't wear one either.

It's sad that I have to clarify this, but that's not to disrespect those who gave their lives for us in the World Wars. The problem is, the poppy has a subjective meaning. To one person it's a badge of respect and honour, but to another if it is nothing but a reminder of horrific times (especially given Britain's history over the years), then I see no issue wearing it.

The mad thing is the hypocrisy of the symbol for those dying to fight for our freedoms, now being used to dictatorially tell people to wear it! 

It's all false tabloid hysteria anyway. The only ones who genuinely get angry over it are those thick enough to believe the papers.

Completely agree and understand, but why can't he 'respectfully' not wear one. I.E. if Stoke print them on their shirts, can he just quietly ask for one not to be printed? Why the need for the public statements, turning your back on the national anthem, interviews etc. He could just quietly and respectfully not wear one. Instead, we have this media furor every year. It seems to me that every generation gets more brash and vocal - the dignity of their opposition is lost.

And for the record, I support those who wish not to wear one - that's what our ancestors died for - freedom of choice.

[David Brent]

6 minutes ago, RedM said:

But where do you draw the line, if a player doesn’t want to wear a poppy does he get to chose to sit out the minutes silence etc? As far as I know he does what his team mates do, which is what the club ( his employer) has decided. He could be going through his shopping list in his head for all we know, same with any other silence or applause.

I do agree though that an employer like the mentioned BBC have no right to tell you to wear something that isn’t part of your uniform ( which a football shirt could be classed as) or isn’t needed for health and safety reasons.

 

He’s choosing not to wear a poppy, he isn’t destroying it. It’s a personal choice of his. Nothing to suggest he would behave any differently than anyone else for a minutes silence. He may not ‘take part’ in a minutes silence but at the same time he knows better than to cluck like a chicken for a minute.

[nebristolred]

2 minutes ago, Undy English said:

Completely agree and understand, but why can't he 'respectfully' not wear one. I.E. if Stoke print them on their shirts, can he just quietly ask for one not to be printed? Why the need for the public statements, turning your back on the national anthem, interviews etc. He could just quietly and respectfully not wear one. Instead, we have this media furor every year. It seems to me that every generation gets more brash and vocal - the dignity of their opposition is lost.

And for the record, I support those who wish not to wear one - that's what our ancestors died for - freedom of choice.

Fair enough, I totally agree, he should respectfully not wear one, but on the other hand, I think he has. The need for a public statement hasn't been created by him, it's been created by the press. If he says nothing, they will just claim it is because he doesn't respect War victims, which isn't the case, so he needs to release his justification. Maybe he could be slightly more diplomatic about it, I'm not sure, but with the amount of **** he's got from some Brits I don't really blame him.

[Sturny]

He's pretty happy to take a British salary tho 

[Red Army 75]

I wear mine with pride. And donate money to the poppy appeal. More than any other cause. It’s good to remember. But people’s prerogative not to wear one. As for Celtic and there chants . They can **** off

[nebristolred]

2 minutes ago, Sturny said:

He's pretty happy to take a British salary tho 

Right. So because he disagrees with the British killing 14 people in Ireland (half of which in a town where he came from), he should surrender his salary over here? Great logic.

[Son of Fred]

8 minutes ago, Undy English said:

Completely agree and understand, but why can't he 'respectfully' not wear one. I.E. if Stoke print them on their shirts, can he just quietly ask for one not to be printed? Why the need for the public statements, turning your back on the national anthem, interviews etc. He could just quietly and respectfully not wear one. Instead, we have this media furor every year. It seems to me that every generation gets more brash and vocal - the dignity of their opposition is lost.

And for the record, I support those who wish not to wear one - that's what our ancestors died for - freedom of choice.

Grace and dignity will always prevail...

[Sturny]

4 minutes ago, nebristolred said:

Right. So because he disagrees with the British killing 14 people in Ireland (half of which in a town where he came from), he should surrender his salary over here? Great logic.

Caught me one

[nebristolred]

3 minutes ago, Sturny said:

Caught me one

[Sturny]

2 minutes ago, nebristolred said:

Cracker wasn't it 

[RedM]

15 minutes ago, David Brent said:

He’s choosing not to wear a poppy, he isn’t destroying it. It’s a personal choice of his. Nothing to suggest he would behave any differently than anyone else for a minutes silence. He may not ‘take part’ in a minutes silence but at the same time he knows better than to cluck like a chicken for a minute.

I do understand why he wouldn’t want to wear one, I’m sure he could have a plain shirt and just be respectful as usual. But this is going to be talked about every year, probably by people who haven’t got anything better to do. And yes I realise I myself an on a forum commenting about these people 

[Sturny]

On a serious note tho I wish the poppy morphed into a more of "mourn what had happened" instead of strictly for the mourning of serviced men. After all it is called "Remembrance Poppy". You'll never please every pickle in the jar tho 

 

[BigTone]

1 hour ago, Crisis what Crisis ? said:

 

Awhhhh bless....i'm soooo sorry these poor little footballers and the rest of you  feel ' oppressed ' and ' pressured into showing some respect ONCE A YEAR !

.....and by the way, how the hell do you think you got to live in a ' free country '  if not for the sacrifice of others ?

Agreed as the sacrifice of my Grandfather and 4 Great Uncles is testament, however they fought for freedom to live in a free country with freedom of choice. I will wear mine with respect because that is MY decision and no one else's especially in said free country.

[nebristolred]

1 hour ago, Crisis what Crisis ? said:

 

Awhhhh bless....i'm soooo sorry these poor little footballers and the rest of you  feel ' oppressed ' and ' pressured into showing some respect ONCE A YEAR !

.....and by the way, how the hell do you think you got to live in a ' free country '  if not for the sacrifice of others ?

Is a country where you're forced to wear a political symbol really a free country?

I have no problem whatsoever wearing a poppy by the way. What our ancestors went through was horrific and they sacrificed everything for us. But I understand there are rare circumstances where those feel uncomfortable wearing it, and I respect them.

[Crisis what Crisis ?]

8 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Agreed as the sacrifice of my Grandfather and 4 Great Uncles is testament, however they fought for freedom to live in a free country with freedom of choice. I will wear mine with respect because that is MY decision and no one else's especially in said free country.

.....the irony of you living in FRANCE ( ?? ) of all places and taking this ' i'll wear it if i choose ' attitude is priceless !  Don't you think perhaps that efforts of your grandfather and four great uncles DEMANDS this tiny display of respect and appreciation from all of us , whether we are know someone that gave the ultimate sacrifice or not ?