The Poppy (Merged)

[E.J.Thribb]

14 hours ago, Harry said:

It’s sad how this special Remembrance Day has turned into a political farce. 

Quite why someone thought it a good idea a few years ago to put poppies on football shirts I don’t know. There was nothing wrong with hosting a respectful minutes silence before games on the Remembrance weekend. Sticking poppies on the shirts was the first step to politicising the poppy. Bad idea. 

When I was growing up, Remembrance Sunday was about giving a moment of thought and respect to all those who died in the Great War of 14-18. I’m not sure when the context of it changed to become ‘all’ conflicts, but that was the catalyst for people to play politics with it. 

Taking Mr Matic’s stance, for me, Remembrance Sunday is nothing to do with the bombing of Serbia (which I actually disagreed with). However, Mr Matic is free to do what he wants and if he doesn’t want to wear a poppy on his football shirt then I don’t see a problem. However, short of focussing on the events of 1989, Mr Matic would do well to remember the events of 1914, during which it was his Countrymen who started the war, and during which his Country lost 60% of its male population. Perhaps he might consider a moments silence on Sunday morning to remember that. But of course, he doesn’t have to - entirely his choice. 

As for McClean. Again, he has every right to not wear a poppy on his football shirt (still can’t believe why this is a thing to be honest) but his stance certainly seems to be one of a more ‘anti-poppy’ nature than just a simple ‘not wearing one’ nature. Again, I put this down to the context (whenever it morphed), of ‘all’ conflict - this opens up the poppy to becoming a negative symbol of war or colonialism to some people, rather than it being just a simple symbol of Remembrance. 

As I said at the start, how very sad that it’s come to this. 

I've run out of likes today, otherwise this would be getting one. I was going to type up pretty much the same as your first three paragraphs. Spot on. I can remember when football paid it's respects in a humble way-a minutes silence for games played on the 11th and/or the weekend of Remembrance Sunday. None of this minutes silence on the weekend beforehand just because that's the clubs last match at home before Remembrance Sunday etc. It smacks of 'look at how great we are at paying our respects'.

The poppy and the period of remembrance should be for solemn and quiet introspection and reflection on the horrors of war, not in-yer-face OTT displays of how much 'respect' one can show. 

[phantom]

Speaks for itself

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/the_last_pass

[Rob k]

3 hours ago, BS2 Red said:

I no longer wear a poppy due to the demands by people that I wear one.  Wearing a poppy is a personal choice and nobody should pressure others into wearing one.

The final straw for me was when I was verbally (and almost physically) abused in a pub for not wearing one a few years ago.  It was over a week away from Remembrance Sunday and I was just on a night out.  Suddenly this meathead (and a few of his friends) started demanding to know "where's your poppy?" and slowly turned it into a big deal with lots of verbal, despite me telling them that I always bought one and usually wore one.

I will buy one every year, but I am not wearing one.

Why would you let a few idiots get to you?

[lanceloto]

20 hours ago, Crisis what Crisis ? said:

.....the irony of you living in FRANCE ( ?? ) of all places and taking this ' i'll wear it if i choose ' attitude is priceless !  Don't you think perhaps that efforts of your grandfather and four great uncles DEMANDS this tiny display of respect and appreciation from all of us , whether we are know someone that gave the ultimate sacrifice or not ?

My Grandfather fought through WW2 and wouldn't wear a poppy. 

[BS2 Red]

1 hour ago, Rob k said:

Why would you let a few idiots get to you?

Why wouldn’t I?

If somebody demands that you do something, do you obey them and make sure you do it in future, or do you defy them and do your own thing?

Like I said, I am happy to contribute and buy a poppy.  But I am not happy with the fuss around the poppy and I will not join in just because people think I should.

[The Journalist]

1 hour ago, phantom said:

Speaks for itself

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/the_last_pass

Good piece, that. My favourite bit is the pictures.

[Eddie Hitler]

23 hours ago, RedM said:

But where do you draw the line, if a player doesn’t want to wear a poppy does he get to chose to sit out the minutes silence etc? As far as I know he does what his team mates do, which is what the club ( his employer) has decided. He could be going through his shopping list in his head for all we know, same with any other silence or applause.

I do agree though that an employer like the mentioned BBC have no right to tell you to wear something that isn’t part of your uniform ( which a football shirt could be classed as) or isn’t needed for health and safety reasons.

 

Best answer.

I choose to wear one but it only has meaning if am making that choice of which the corollary is that others choose not to wear one; so I have no expectation that people should wear a poppy.

If I had to wear a company tie every day and for the first two weeks of November my employer issued a tie with a poppy embroidered on it and required us to wear it then wearing it becomes part of my job as I representing my company when at work rather than myself.

McClean's employer wants him to wear a shirt incorporating this design so he should wear it when at work because at work he is representing his company.

[phantom]

Interesting angle @Eddie Hitler - certainly puts another point of view to the discussion

[BS4 on Tour...]

18 hours ago, Midlands Robin said:

I can't stand this pressure to wear the poppy. Wear one if you want, don't if you don't.

Don't disrespect people's choice either way.

At the same time, don't read into a symbol things that aren't there. The red isn't for blood, the leaf doesn't need to be at the 11am position. Wear it on the left, right or respectfully wherever you choose. There is no laid down way.

Just remember all who served gave up some of their life and some who served gave up all of their life.

Spot on mate - my first post on this thread said just that....it’s an individual’s choice whether they wear a poppy or not, just make that choice quietly and get on with your lives...I just don’t understand why groups need to crave attention by taking part in high profile public condemnation of the Poppy and what it symbolises, both on social media and by indulging in vile chants and banners and by deliberately disrupting the traditional minute’s silence etc....it’s pathetic, yet some people like @Mr Popodopolous and @RedSkin try to detect a non-existent sectarian angle in views like these...just because these public demonstrations of dissatisfaction tend to always involve fans of Celtic.....yet Everton fans manage to keep a dignified silence at this time of year...they’ve got more class I suppose...

[Offside]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/the_last_pass

Apologies if this has already been posted on another thread.

[Rob k]

7 hours ago, BS2 Red said:

Why wouldn’t I?

If somebody demands that you do something, do you obey them and make sure you do it in future, or do you defy them and do your own thing?

Like I said, I am happy to contribute and buy a poppy.  But I am not happy with the fuss around the poppy and I will not join in just because people think I should.

You used to wear a poppy and now you don’t because of a few nobheads, 

I would not not wear one because i thought i was defying the said nobheads and i certainly would not see it as obeying them if i did.

Each to their own though - this is just my opinion 

[RedJim]

On 05/11/2018 at 17:07, KeepUpLino said:

Doesn't snowflakism cover all 12 months

 

Does any one give a **** what James Mclean does anyway? I mean who the **** is he anyway?... Irrelevant tosser!!

How do you define snowflake? Someone who gets outraged by a footballer not wearing a poppy? Or just people who don't agree with your views? Just asking...

[Norn Iron]

Fascinating biography from the BBC about football prior and during WW1.

It is also about a man I'd never heard of. In Bristol City terms he was Sunderland's Billy Wedlock. After the war, Jimmy forged a superb managerial career. The article (there's also a three minute clip included) concludes with the statement that he went to Bristol City.

If anyone has any information about him and his time with us, I am sure many would be interested especially after the BBC's article.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/the_last_pass

[Major Isewater]

 

33 minutes ago, Norn Iron said:

Fascinating biography from the BBC about football prior and during WW1.

It is also about a man I'd never heard of. In Bristol City terms he was Sunderland's Billy Wedlock. After the war, Jimmy forged a superb managerial career. The article (there's also a three minute clip included) concludes with the statement that he went to Bristol City.

If anyone has any information about him and his time with us, I am sure many would be interested especially after the BBC's article.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/the_last_pass

He blossomed with us .

[ChippenhamRed]

Only thing I have to add to this is that if wearing a poppy becomes an expectation, or is done out of duty or pressure from others, I think it completely devalues what it means to wear it.  I think wearing a poppy should always be a personal statement of recognition and appreciation for those who died for our freedom.  Being told to say thank you is always far less meaningful than choosing to do so.

[Lack of Action Man]

On ‎05‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 14:45, Stortz said:

Yep, part of the new cycle of outrage we endure annually now:

Most accurate representation of modern life ever. So many snowflakes.

[Undy English]

3 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Only thing I have to add to this is that if wearing a poppy becomes an expectation, or is done out of duty or pressure from others, I think it completely devalues what it means to wear it.  I think wearing a poppy should always be a personal statement of recognition and appreciation for those who died for our freedom.  Being told to say thank you is always far less meaningful than choosing to do so.

Well said.

In private we may think those who chose not to show gratitude are to$$ers, but nobody should be forced or told to do something - completely devalues it.

[Red Skin]

On 06/11/2018 at 15:29, BS4 on Tour... said:

Spot on mate - my first post on this thread said just that....it’s an individual’s choice whether they wear a poppy or not, just make that choice quietly and get on with your lives...I just don’t understand why groups need to crave attention by taking part in high profile public condemnation of the Poppy and what it symbolises, both on social media and by indulging in vile chants and banners and by deliberately disrupting the traditional minute’s silence etc....it’s pathetic, yet some people like @Mr Popodopolous and @RedSkin try to detect a non-existent sectarian angle in views like these...just because these public demonstrations of dissatisfaction tend to always involve fans of Celtic.....yet Everton fans manage to keep a dignified silence at this time of year...they’ve got more class I suppose...

They have the right to hold their views, but I wouldn't agree with how that is always exercised.   If there is a minute's silence it should be respected, but no one should be forced to wear a poppy.  

Not sure why you think I'm making it sectarian.  The poppy thing isn't sectarian, its political.  If they were refusing to commemorate just non Catholic British soldiers, then it would be sectarian.  It's isn't about that.  It's about the British Army's actions in Ireland (regardless of their religion) that the objection is too.  

[BS4 on Tour...]

4 hours ago, RedSkin said:

They have the right to hold their views, but I wouldn't agree with how that is always exercised.   If there is a minute's silence it should be respected, but no one should be forced to wear a poppy.  

Not sure why you think I'm making it sectarian.  The poppy thing isn't sectarian, its political.  If they were refusing to commemorate just non Catholic British soldiers, then it would be sectarian.  It's isn't about that.  It's about the British Army's actions in Ireland (regardless of their religion) that the objection is too.  

Well in your previous post about me you told me to “go to Ibrox and stay there” - so in response to me discussing Celtic fans’ appalling behaviour you brought up Rangers....that’s why I thought you were bringing a sectarian angle into it....apologies if I got it wrong...

[And Its Smith]

I’ve not worn a poppy for 20 years. If people think I’m an idiot then I really dont give a damn. 

[joe jordans teeth]

7 minutes ago, RedDave said:

I’ve not worn a poppy for 20 years. If people think I’m an idiot then I really dont give a damn. 

I don’t think not wearing a poppy gave them that impression of you. 

[Olé]

While I agree with the live and let live, it's a bit harder in London where virtually no one seems to wear one, which is depressing. I understand that it's not for everyone but in a place where so many people enjoy peak benefit of the success that is possible in this country it still surprises me that even as a gesture of goodwill, regardless of the supposed politics, so few bother.

On the other hand, to even it up a bit, the whole "if you are in our country you should respect our traditions" line, while valid in principle, is the most misused and loaded argument there is. There's an implication there which in my experience has little or no correlation to the choice of wearing a poppy. On my commute at least you'd be surprised who you see wearing one versus not each day, the indifference (and lack of respect, IF there is one) is a lot closer to home, I certainly wouldn't be reaching for cheap stereotypes about who and who doesn't embrace British tradition.

[A Darkwood Red]

I wear a poppy, my choice. Personally I don't like the poppy with a club badge attached I find it distasteful. Also personally it wouldn't worry me if no club had a poppy on their shirt, never used too.

A minutes silence for reflection and respect on the nearest game before the 11th is enough and not the nearest home game either just the nearest game, if it's an away game so be it. 

It's not a competition about who is more respectful. It's about reflection not who does it better. 

[The Bard]

On 05/11/2018 at 16:57, Three Lions said:

He is getting fried by Stoke fans for walking around during a minutes silence, making comments about being a proud fenian and quoting the IRA.

It's more than ironic that people slate footballers for not having a clue about the world, that when one of them does something that takes them into the spehere of politics,/ history / morality , they get slated.  I don't agree with the bloke, but at least he's got some balls and a clear idea of who he is, where he's from.  (you all can disagree with him, which is fine, but the reaction is far worse than anything he's done..)

[CyderInACan]

I choose to wear a red poppy. If you do wear one, don’t wear one or choose to wear a white poppy then that is entirely your choice. I think all 3 options can be done with dignity though. 

[TV Tom]

7 minutes ago, The Bard said:

It's more than ironic that people slate footballers for not having a clue about the world, that when one of them does something that takes them into the spehere of politics,/ history / morality , they get slated.  I don't agree with the bloke, but at least he's got some balls and a clear idea of who he is, where he's from.  (you all can disagree with him, which is fine, but the reaction is far worse than anything he's done..)

Agree entirely, dare I say I admire him for his courage and honesty  (put tin hat on)

[freezer]

I have a fear. That there will probably come a day when the whole 'Red Poppy' thing will be gone. 

Hopefully not in my lifetime, as I will continue to proudly wear the poppy/badge to remember and commemorate not only those who have served, suffered and fallen from all nationalities. But also to remember loved ones who are no longer with us.

Because once it is accepted as not being 'PC' (like many other things) it will be unacceptable to wear such a symbol in public without facing critiscm.

Then, we'll just have to find something else to question and eventually remove from society.

For me, literally, it's a red line. I am also amazed at some of the views expressed. 

In the immortal words of Private James Frazer....."We're doomed"

[Erithacus]

Well this has brought up a number of contrasting views. And to add more to that pyre, you can also choose to wear a purple poppy to remember the lives of animals (mainly horses) that were killed in conflicts, or a white poppy to stand for peace.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45971456

[CyderInACan]

4 hours ago, Erithacus said:

Well this has brought up a number of contrasting views. And to add more to that pyre, you can also choose to wear a purple poppy to remember the lives of animals (mainly horses) that were killed in conflicts, or a white poppy to stand for peace.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45971456

How long til a hybrid red/white/purple poppy appears then. Or a rainbow one. 

[reformed_red]

1 hour ago, CyderInACan said:

How long til a hybrid red/white/purple poppy appears then. Or a rainbow one. 

What if I prefer to identify with a blue sunflower rather than a red poppy? Can I wear that on my lapel???