Can anyone make a case for sticking with LJ

[Red Exile]

14 minutes ago, Robbored said:

That’s how l felt when GJ was in charge but, guess what? I carried on attending because I’m a SC holder and diehard City fan.

As a die hard City fan myself I simply can't abide watching the squandering of talent that almost any previous City manager would have killed for. 

[CityCiderEd]

36 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Preston were far from poor. 

And haven't won away until yesterday.....

[redsquirrel]

you could just picture him on grand designs with a compact 5 story house and unique bathroom in the loft because his I pad said it wouldn't take up space there. 

[One Team]

A question I’ve pondered for a while is would any other Championship club have hired him when we did? Also, would any other Championship club appoint him if he was sacked now?

[richwwtk]

1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I’ve defended LJ on grounds of year-on-year league position improvement and I generally try to take a broader perspective and avoid knee-jerk reactions. However none of that excuses the rank and inexcusable incompetence on display yesterday. It was a tipping point for me.

Exactly how I feel after yesterday's game.

I can't see Steve Lansdown sacking him just yet, but if this form continues into December I can't see him being kept beyond Christmas.

For the first time in a long long time I just don't see us improving anywhere near enough. We are on a slow slide down into the relegation battle as things stand.

Yesterday was the worst I can remember for many years. We didn't look like creating a half chance, let alone scoring. There was no imagination, creativity or effort anywhere to be seen.

[swanker]

49 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Preston were far from poor. 

We were though. We made it easy for them like we have with other teams this season. Sheffield Wednesday haven’t won since they beat us. Reading last week? It’s bleak at Ashton. 

[Rich_s]

9 minutes ago, Bri Stool City said:

Too late, Holden and Mac will take over if we wait till then, and SL/MA will need about 3yrs to "select" another just like LJ, but we can live in hope that they make a mistake and select a decent exp manager, with a proven record.

Any new man will need the next window and about 50 quid to sign better players and motivate them anyway. Go and go now.

I’d be surprised if SL/MA don’t have candidates in mind, however I’m an an optimist who probably would believe they have foresight and competence 

[Davefevs]

7 hours ago, bobby kellard was go said:

Whats his net spend?

We just sell our best players and expect to win the league,it never ever works.

Much more likely to get relegated if  you sell your 3 best players out of 11 imo.

You sell your best players because you’ve overspent on too many others (who can’t get in the team or are sold at a loss) and SL had to stick in £18m throughout last season to stave off cash flow issues. We lost £25m because we didn’t sell any of them in January. That was LJ’s true gamble, not Diony, Kent and Walsh. 

2 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I want to hear it. I’ve defended LJ on grounds of year-on-year league position improvement and I generally try to take a broader perspective and avoid knee-jerk reactions. However none of that excuses the rank and inexcusable incompetence on display yesterday. It was a tipping point for me.

So let’s have your reasons because I would genuinely like to hear them.

Tipping point for me too. It’s a shame because I’ve just listened to his post-match interview and he’s feeling it. You could hear it in his voice. For once I saw the same game as he did. Perhaps he has realised that he has created “cozy club”. If he has, maybe there’s hope.  

[ChippenhamRed]

50 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Quality away performance from what I watched

I think it’s difficult to put a “quality” label on that away performance given how little we made them work for it.

Often we make it all about us and don’t give credit to the opposition, but on this occasion I do think it was far more about our own inadequacies than it was the quality of the away performance. I think it’s entirely reasonable to assume that a good number of L1 teams could have taken three points off us yesterday, which says it all for me.

[And Its Smith]

2 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I think it’s difficult to put a “quality” label on that away performance given how little we made them work for it.

Often we make it all about us and don’t give credit to the opposition, but on this occasion I do think it was far more about our own inadequacies than it was the quality of the away performance. I think it’s entirely reasonable to assume that a good number of L1 teams could have taken three points off us yesterday, which says it all for me.

Preston didnt let us play, won every header, every second ball and were dangerous on the break. 

[ChippenhamRed]

6 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Preston didnt let us play, won every header, every second ball and were dangerous on the break. 

It shouldn’t be that easy for a team simply not to “let us play”. We have a responsibility to make it more difficult for them to stop us playing. Why did they win every header? Why did they win every second ball? Perhaps partly because they played well, but also because we were inadequate all over the park.

I certainly didn’t come away thinking I’d seen a masterclass away performance.

[CityCiderEd]

9 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Preston didnt let us play, won every header, every second ball and were dangerous on the break. 

I know we have no God given right to win a game but we are at home against a team without an away win and we have one shot on target.

[Redmycolour]

10 hours ago, Rich said:

Slight upturn and they'll be back. Saying "where are all the LJ out brigade".

I'm here, always will be, "LJ OUT" 

[Robbored]

26 minutes ago, Rich_s said:

I’d be surprised if SL/MA don’t have candidates in mind, however I’m an an optimist who probably would believe they have foresight and competence 

I’d be surprised if they did have candidates in mind.

[italian dave]

2 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

@BCFC Grim it’s a genuine quote being reported by the Bristol Post here:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-city-highlights-preston-johnson-2205984

Appalling comments. If you’re picking your substations based on who has the best song, without doubt it’s time to go.

Except, of course, that isn't what he is saying! Nothing about "best" song. I think he's just saying that we needed a lot more atmosphere, a final 10 minutes when the crowd really gets behind the team, and that wasn't happening. You know that Joe Bryan or Aden Flint would only have to fly into a challenge and the songs would start up and raise the atmosphere a bit. 

I was wondering whether he'd bring on Taylor or Eisa. Taylor who would raise the intensity but not score, or Eisa who would be an unknown, for us and them. I think all LJ was saying is that he went for Taylor for that reason. 

Ironically it was actually the ref, with that appalling decision to stop play when their guy feigned injury, who did far more than any of our players to achieve a bit of atmosphere! 

[Olé]

If it wasn't for all the previous I'd be giving him until January, but having felt after Swansea/Sheff Utd that he really was taking us places (given that I expected us to struggle in the first few months of the season, and saw a very stylish over-achieving side) I do think the complete collapse since, of everything from tactics and strategy to preferred starting 11 and use of substitutions, does not leave him any way back. I've seen some dross under LJ (Forest away 2017 and Brentford at home last season) but yesterday was miraculously the worst, something that shouldn't have been possible when you had the warning at Reading.

I'm still fuming this morning as with a week to prepare and as a so-called training ground coach you simply do not and cannot produce that shambles YET AGAIN after what happened against another bottom of the table team a week earlier. There is no longer any logical argument to suggest LJ knows what he is doing. He simply can't do. Indeed yesterday I thought he got just about every decision or task he had to make or perform wrong yesterday - from the starting 11 and formation through to the tactics employed in the game and then the substitutions introduced. And he clearly couldn't motivate anyone either.

Even in the depths of some of our worst managers we could rally late on at Ashton Gate and create a few shots and a bit of noise, but under LJ, and not for the first time, we have gone down not only without a fight but without any semblance of idea how to string any football together and lift the atmosphere. We can no longer even call on the basics when needed. People turned to me after the subs yesterday and said it's hard to believe but we're actually getting worse. And they were right. And as I said yesterday, there are some clubs where yesterday alone, with all the context, would be enough for the manager to get sacked.

The one thing I like about LJ is his interviews are very candid and honest, sometimes humiliatingly so, you couldn't accuse him of ducking blame with the sort of absolute nonsense Dean Holden talked after Reading last week, but it's no longer good enough to keep coming out with the downbeat, wounded soundbites and matter of fact summaries after each of these meltdowns. It just makes it more obvious that he is not possessed of the attributes or leadership to stop these things happening again and again and year after year after year. He is always disheartened by these outcomes but has clearly run out of ideas how to stop them.

[Lack of Action Man]

I'm struggling. I think he's running out of time and excuses (as per yesterdays interview). These are HIS PLAYERS - he is the one leading the coaching Mon-Fri at the training ground, he is the one who has brought them into the club because he sees potential in them, and he is the one who comes up with the match day tactics and formation based on these players. 

And it's crap! The players aren't giving 100% they look lacking in motivation or desire, bar few, and in some instances their ability can be called into question also. 

To go from the ability level of the team Cotts assembled (yes, granted L1 is easier than Championship) to the team yesterday was depressing, and reminded me of our fall from grace under McInness and some of the truly dire performances put out by his teams. 

[ChippenhamRed]

12 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Except, of course, that isn't what he is saying! Nothing about "best" song. I think he's just saying that we needed a lot more atmosphere, a final 10 minutes when the crowd really gets behind the team, and that wasn't happening. You know that Joe Bryan or Aden Flint would only have to fly into a challenge and the songs would start up and raise the atmosphere a bit. 

I was wondering whether he'd bring on Taylor or Eisa. Taylor who would raise the intensity but not score, or Eisa who would be an unknown, for us and them. I think all LJ was saying is that he went for Taylor for that reason. 

Ironically it was actually the ref, with that appalling decision to stop play when their guy feigned injury, who did far more than any of our players to achieve a bit of atmosphere! 

OK so he didn’t say “best” song, but his primary reason for the substitution was not tactical but rather who he thought could lift the atmosphere. The doesn’t sound to me like a coach who knows what he’s trying to do, or how to affect the game. It’s a desperate measure.

[supercidered]

I purposely did not post yesterday because I needed to calm the f@ck down before I did so. Yesterday was not a one off game, we have been almost as bad on several occasions this season. I've been watching City since I was 5 and I'm nearly 50 and yesterday was one of the worst I've seen.There was nothing to be positive about. In fact the only bit worth remembering was the Armistice part.

My missus says that I take City 'personally' i.e. when we lose I'm a nightmare and as a result it spoils my weekend and as a result it spoils everyone elses as well. However,losing is all part of being a football fan but there has to be an element of how we lose. Yesterday and as I said earlier it was not an isolated case was just woeful and almost embarrassing. I'm not a LJ hater or particularly pro LJ either but to say there is something wrong behind the scenes has to be a massive understatement.

A mate of mine that I sat with yesterday said that there was a bust up at training on Wednesday. Whether that is true or not or whether it has any meaning I don't know but what I do know is that yesterday is not good enough and we as City fans do not deserve to pay our hard earned on sh!t like that.

Probably a good job I didn't post last night after an all dayer drinking Natch.

[Andy082005]

2 hours ago, gazza1982 said:

I’d keep him in for now. 

In terms of crowds and net spend, we have found our level as a club and that is about mid table in the championship.

if we continue to slide down the table however, then I would look to change. 

We've been sliding as a club for 12 months 

I will be the first time admit....in many respects I got it wrong about Johnson. Previous seasons I predicted relegation but it never came...and what he has achieved...is to turn us into a stable Championship club. So fair play to him for that 

What I will say is I'm a huge believer in your either moving forward, or you start moving backwards. This season was a huge one for LJ...as he has had long enough now to stamp his own style on the team and get things how he wanted. After all this time....he still doesn't know what his best team or style is, and the performances are not improving. Our style is not progressing . Everything about Bristol City is moving forward apart from the team's performance 

It's time. I can remember a few years ago when Southampton sacked Nigel Adkins . He wasn't doing a bad job at all....but the board didn't feel he could take them any further . The board were brave....made the decision ....and it paid off big time. 

Ok it doesn't always work out. But do we really want to become the next Ipswich? A club who just languish in this league ..never challenge, before eventually dropping out of the league back into League 1? Id rather take a punt and fail then end up like this 

We will never become a top 6 club with LJ in charge. 

 

[Lack of Action Man]

4 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

OK so he didn’t say “best” song, but his primary reason for the substitution was not tactical but rather who he thought could lift the atmosphere. The doesn’t sound to me like a coach who knows what he’s trying to do, or how to affect the game. It’s a desperate measure.

That was my interpretation of those bizarre comments too.

[And Its Smith]

36 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

It shouldn’t be that easy for a team simply not to “let us play”. We have a responsibility to make it more difficult for them to stop us playing. Why did they win every header? Why did they win every second ball? Perhaps partly because they played well, but also because we were inadequate all over the park.

I certainly didn’t come away thinking I’d seen a masterclass away performance.

Wasnt a masterclass but also wasnt poor as some have said. 

[BRISTOL86]

I’m often labelled on here by a few as a Johnson lover, which is nonsense as I’ve called for him to go in the past.

I’m a Bristol City lover, regardless of the current incumbent. 

Johnson has done some good here and he has done some bad. He’s had us challenging for the top spot and have catastrophic lows...in the same season(!)

What’s undeniable is that if he left us today we’d be in a better place than when he came in. That’s a fact that even the most vehement anti-Johnson posters will be unable to deny. 

For me, the most frustrating thing is that he just doesn’t seem to learn from his mistakes. 

I think he is an average manager and if we are happy to be an average club then what’s the point in him being replaced with another average manager?

A lot was made of the seeming lack of ambition shown in January and for me, if that is representative of our happiness to be an average championship club then Johnson is doing what he’s here to do. 

If, however the ambition is genuinely for us to be contenders for a chance at promotion then it’s hard to argue that he’s the man for the job on the evidence we’ve had. 

So for me, Johnson in or out is a moot point without knowing the ambition from the top, and only a handful of people genuinely know what that ambition is. 

The relationship between fans and manager - rightly or wrongly and that debate has been done to death - has turned poisonous fast, as it inevitably was going to when we had a poor spell. 

It’s funny, a few years ago we’d have been delighted to be an average championship club. Now that we are one, it’s not good enough, and we expect more, rightly or wrongly. It’s a never ending cycle regardless of the manager. 

If I were in charge then I’d make a change now purely because Johnson will never ever win here unless he gets us promoted. In order to do that, he’d have to get a mid table squad punching considerably above their weight over an entire season. I don’t see it. 

A replacement average manager will probably do no better but the relationship will be different. 

[David Brent]

It’s taken 30+ transfers but this is his team. There can be no excuses, even with the sale of 3 important players. Every other club has to deal with it.

He’s had long enough imo. 

[ScottishRed]

2 hours ago, gazza1982 said:

I’d keep him in for now. 

In terms of crowds and net spend, we have found our level as a club and that is about mid table in the championship.

if we continue to slide down the table however, then I would look to change. 

How many times......

It is NOT all about net spend, it's a part of it but far from all of it.

The coaching team have a huge role in what happens on the pitch and they are failing.

In fact they are not even close to getting it right WITH the resources they do.

You cannot keep changing players, formations and tactics on a weekly basis, you need to settle on a style of play and stick to it no matter the opposition.

I think our HC thinks he understands this game far far better than he actually does.

[Red Exile]

1 hour ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I’m often labelled on here by a few as a Johnson lover, which is nonsense as I’ve called for him to go in the past.

I’m a Bristol City lover, regardless of the current incumbent. 

Johnson has done some good here and he has done some bad. He’s had us challenging for the top spot and have catastrophic lows...in the same season(!)

What’s undeniable is that if he left us today we’d be in a better place than when he came in. That’s a fact that even the most vehement anti-Johnson posters will be unable to deny. 

For me, the most frustrating thing is that he just doesn’t seem to learn from his mistakes. 

I think he is an average manager and if we are happy to be an average club then what’s the point in him being replaced with another average manager?

A lot was made of the seeming lack of ambition shown in January and for me, if that is representative of our happiness to be an average championship club then Johnson is doing what he’s here to do. 

If, however the ambition is genuinely for us to be contenders for a chance at promotion then it’s hard to argue that he’s the man for the job on the evidence we’ve had. 

So for me, Johnson in or out is a moot point without knowing the ambition from the top, and only a handful of people genuinely know what that ambition is. 

The relationship between fans and manager - rightly or wrongly and that debate has been done to death - has turned poisonous fast, as it inevitably was going to when we had a poor spell. 

It’s funny, a few years ago we’d have been delighted to be an average championship club. Now that we are one, it’s not good enough, and we expect more, rightly or wrongly. It’s a never ending cycle regardless of the manager. 

If I were in charge then I’d make a change now purely because Johnson will never ever win here unless he gets us promoted. In order to do that, he’d have to get a mid table squad punching considerably above their weight over an entire season. I don’t see it. 

A replacement average manager will probably do no better but the relationship will be different. 

A very thought provoking post. In response I'd agree that much as I want him out it can't be denied that the playing side of the club is in a better place than when LJ joined. I'd argue that that is largely because the playing squad is much stronger, in quality and depth, than the one at Cotts' disposal. The frustration is that LJ makes such poor use of the resources he has...in my opinion. I think the idea that another manager, however average, would have different relationship with the supporters is an interesting one, and correct. I think LJ was always either going to be loved or loathed, with another boss there would be more neutrality. The ambition of the club is the bit that perhaps bothers me most. What's the point of being in such a competitive league if we don't want to compete? That's where the Lansdown project leaves me bemused. The ground improvements were delivered by people with experience of doing the job they were hired to do...the playing side of the club appears to be in the hands of men learning on the job, which given the resources invested in them seems extraordinary.

[ScottishRed]

2 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

A very thought provoking post. In response I'd agree that much as I want him out it can't be denied that the playing side of the club is in a better place than when LJ joined. I'd argue that that is largely because the playing squad is much stronger, in quality and depth than the one at Cotts' disposal. The frustration is that LJ makes such poor use of the resources he has...in my opinion. I think the idea that another manager, however average, would have different relationship with the supporters is an interesting one, and correct. I think LJ was always either going to be loved or loathed, with another boss there would be more neutrality. The ambition of the club is the bit that perhaps bothers me most. What's the point of being in such a competitive league if we don't want to compete? That's where the Lansdown project leaves me bemused. The ground improvements we delivered by people with experience of doing the job they were hired to do...the playing side of the club appears to be in the hands of men learning on the job, which given the resources invested in them seems extraordinary.

I think it is becoming clear what the true ambition actually is  - simply, stay in this league, nothing more.

[Flounder]

I was sat next to S82 yesterday and they tried to create an atmosphere throughout the match. It’s fair to say most songs yesterday started in that area. I can’t remember one song that would have “lost 4 or 5 players”. Is Johnson referring to “you don’t know what you’re doing” when he took Walsh off? It’s the only negative song I heard and was directed at the manager not the players. To me Johnson is scraping the barrel for excuses. If he thinks that’s the reason we lost yesterday he’s providing a lot of people with an excuse to want him out.

[Sir Leigh of Somerset]

Bristol 86: It’s funny, a few years ago we’d have been delighted to be an average championship club. Now that we are one, it’s not good enough, and we expect more, rightly or wrongly. It’s a never ending cycle regardless of the manager. 

But are we really an average Championship club?

I believe that the results over the last 6 games show us in 18th spot and just 2 points off the relegation places.

We appear to be in freefall.

[gazza1982]

31 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

How many times......

It is NOT all about net spend, it's a part of it but far from all of it.

The coaching team have a huge role in what happens on the pitch and they are failing.

In fact they are not even close to getting it right WITH the resources they do.

You cannot keep changing players, formations and tactics on a weekly basis, you need to settle on a style of play and stick to it no matter the opposition.

I think our HC thinks he understands this game far far better than he actually does.

In my opinion it IS a huge part of how how a club performs on the field. It’s simply really, if you sell your best players and replace them on the cheap then you rarely do as well. Look at 5 out of the top 6 last season as proof.

LJ isn’t faultless, far from it and I will agree a change should come if we don’t pick up soon.