Can anyone make a case for sticking with LJ

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I think it’s difficult to put a “quality” label on that away performance given how little we made them work for it.

Often we make it all about us and don’t give credit to the opposition, but on this occasion I do think it was far more about our own inadequacies than it was the quality of the away performance. I think it’s entirely reasonable to assume that a good number of L1 teams could have taken three points off us yesterday, which says it all for me.

Preston are the kind of team we struggle against, because they play at full-tilt, with desire.  Soft underbelly teams, like us, come unstuck against teams like this.  See Millwall too.  Soft underbelly teams with a bit of quality, we can beat, e.g. Brentford...although they are sliding more precariously than us.

1 hour ago, RedDave said:

Preston didnt let us play, won every header, every second ball and were dangerous on the break. 

Preston play a system, style that works for the players they have / can afford.  Willing runners in Robinson, Maguire (eff me he’s sharp - reminded me of Hogan) and Barkhuisen, able to stretch a home team and get them out of trouble with one long ball.  They have 3 interchangeable midfielders (Pearson, Johnson and Gallagher) whose first thought yesterday was to clip a ball down the sides of our RCB or LCB and get their front 3 (who had already started their run, because they know what to expect) to stretch us. It ain’t rocket science.  It’s a well drilled team.

1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

It shouldn’t be that easy for a team simply not to “let us play”. We have a responsibility to make it more difficult for them to stop us playing. Why did they win every header? Why did they win every second ball? Perhaps partly because they played well, but also because we were inadequate all over the park.

I certainly didn’t come away thinking I’d seen a masterclass away performance.

How did Maguire win so many flick ons, especially against Webster in the second half?

You’re right, it wasn’t a masterclass, it was our own downfall.  Throw a tea-towel over AW, FD, JB and LW, and Pack or Kalas have an impossible pass (1 and 2) into the midfielders (too advanced) or the strikers (no space because of JB and LW), so the only ball is (3) to Dasilva, which can be cut out by their RB or Barkhuisen.  Any ball into JB or LW, can be intercepted ahead of them, and PNE are breaking on us, and sliding balls down the sides.

The way we did get around this was when AW came short, with JB and LW, dragging Johnson and Gallagher with them, giving MP / TK a simple pass, AW then popping it off to the the unrushing JH.

32 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

We've been sliding as a club for 12 months 

I will be the first time admit....in many respects I got it wrong about Johnson. Previous seasons I predicted relegation but it never came...and what he has achieved...is to turn us into a stable Championship club. So fair play to him for that 

What I will say is I'm a huge believer in your either moving forward, or you start moving backwards. This season was a huge one for LJ...as he has had long enough now to stamp his own style on the team and get things how he wanted. After all this time....he still doesn't know what his best team or style is, and the performances are not improving. Our style is not progressing . Everything about Bristol City is moving forward apart from the team's performance 

Completely agree.  He uses terms like cohesion....there was none yesterday and many other games too.

It's time. I can remember a few years ago when Southampton sacked Nigel Adkins . He wasn't doing a bad job at all....but the board didn't feel he could take them any further . The board were brave....made the decision ....and it paid off big time. 

Good analogy.

Ok it doesn't always work out. But do we really want to become the next Ipswich? A club who just languish in this league ..never challenge, before eventually dropping out of the league back into League 1? Id rather take a punt and fail then end up like this 

We will never become a top 6 club with LJ in charge. 

 

 

26 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I’m often labelled on here by a few as a Johnson lover, which is nonsense as I’ve called for him to go in the past.

I’m a Bristol City lover, regardless of the current incumbent. 

Johnson has done some good here and he has done some bad. He’s had us challenging for the top spot and have catastrophic lows...in the same season(!)

What’s undeniable is that if he left us today we’d be in a better place than when he came in. That’s a fact that even the most vehement anti-Johnson posters will be unable to deny. 

I might argue that perhaps other managers may have done this and better with the resources he’s been allowed....or done the same / better with less resources.

Someone posted the other day that LJ’s best run was actually just after his appointment when he had someone else’s team.

For me, the most frustrating thing is that he just doesn’t seem to learn from his mistakes. 

I think he is an average manager and if we are happy to be an average club then what’s the point in him being replaced with another average manager?

A lot was made of the seeming lack of ambition shown in January and for me, if that is representative of our happiness to be an average championship club then Johnson is doing what he’s here to do. 

If, however the ambition is genuinely for us to be contenders for a chance at promotion then it’s hard to argue that he’s the man for the job on the evidence we’ve had. 

So for me, Johnson in or out is a moot point without knowing the ambition from the top, and only a handful of people genuinely know what that ambition is. 

The relationship between fans and manager - rightly or wrongly and that debate has been done to death - has turned poisonous fast, as it inevitably was going to when we had a poor spell. 

It’s funny, a few years ago we’d have been delighted to be an average championship club. Now that we are one, it’s not good enough, and we expect more, rightly or wrongly. It’s a never ending cycle regardless of the manager. 

As above, it’s because people know how much has been spent (wasted in a lot of cases) so far.

If I were in charge then I’d make a change now purely because Johnson will never ever win here unless he gets us promoted. In order to do that, he’d have to get a mid table squad punching considerably above their weight over an entire season. I don’t see it. 

A replacement average manager will probably do no better but the relationship will be different. 

 

[Davefevs]

28 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

I think it is becoming clear what the true ambition actually is  - simply, stay in this league, nothing more.

It most definitely isn’t!  There is no way SL is pumping £millions in just for survival.

I think he will be very “disappointed” with current progress.  He will have backed a plan, probably stemming from January, and his management team from MA down are not meeting the objectives set.  He will not allow himself to be the scapegoat...someone else will.  It might not be LJ, could be MA, could be Holden or Macca.

[Major Isewater]

2 hours ago, RedDave said:

Preston didnt let us play, won every header, every second ball and were dangerous on the break. 

yet apart from that they were poor according to some on here . 

[Mtimmy11]

When cotts  left I was told lansdown was going to go for it big time,then Johnson turned up.If he left us we would only get Millen with Lewis Carey

[JamesBCFC]

3 hours ago, Rich_s said:

Give him until the New Year.

Personally I’m sick of the tinkering, abject tactics, tedious football. On the weekend it’s nice to go out and be entertained, win lose or draw but at present I watch the match and think about all the interesting things I could have done instead.

Other than Pack I believe that all the players were LJ signings. He’s been at the club a long time and been well supported. The AG faithful have been patient but if the current form continues he should be out by early Jan.

When?

This is not a defense at all of what has been produced in recent games, but it literally takes 1 game for people to call for his sacking, no matter how we were doing in matches previous to that.

It takes 1 bad showing from a player for them to be declared useless.

Patient is not a word I'd use to describe our fans.

[paulcityfan]

3 hours ago, RedDave said:

Preston were far from poor. 

We'll never really know because we were that bad. We just allowed both Preston and Reading to escape from the relegation zone in the space of a week

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

When?

This is not a defense at all of what has been produced in recent games, but it literally takes 1 game for people to call for his sacking, no matter how we were doing in matches previous to that.

It takes 1 bad showing from a player for them to be declared useless.

Patient is not a word I'd use to describe our fans.

I think most have been patience, but there are too many straws breaking the camel’s back this season.  The 4 wins on the trot were a mixture of performances that would not sustain the ultimate results going forward.  

[JamesBCFC]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I think most have been patience, but there are too many straws breaking the camel’s back this season.  The 4 wins on the trot were a mixture of performances that would not sustain the ultimate results going forward.  

Was a comment of how things are in general.

There was someone sat a few rows behind me at the Man Utd game who was shouting abuse at him when we were drawing 0-0!

Similar at the Leeds home game last season, we were very poor that day but had been doing pretty decent in the league, yet plenty of people near where I was expressed feelings of wanting him gone.

[B block]

3 hours ago, Red Exile said:

Thing is, he doesn't really mean any of it, it's all a smokescreen to cover his pitifully poor in-game management. He thinks he's being smart and funny...and seems to be under the impression that we'll laugh along with him. I'm afraid he comes across as the golden boy who thinks he's cleverer than he is...on reflection he has done all along. He's deluded..but somehow never held to account. Needs to go before he does any more damage.

Thus is spot on, which makes it worse in my book 

[glen humphries]

4 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

When?

This is not a defense at all of what has been produced in recent games, but it literally takes 1 game for people to call for his sacking, no matter how we were doing in matches previous to that.

It takes 1 bad showing from a player for them to be declared useless.

Patient is not a word I'd use to describe our fans.

Really , on the whole we’ve been bang average our entire history, as a fan base I think we’ve been incredibly patient, the fans can see we are going backwards and there’s one man that unfortunately for him must take the blame , if we were playing good football and being entertained fans can deal with losing games, but wot was served up yesterday was not good enough and lj must except that , time for him to admit defeat and go .

[bengalcub]

We're established in the championship, we will stay up easily despite flirting with the drop zone ,I'm not a great lj fan and his starting linups are bizarre to say the least,  the subs he makes are so predictable the only reason I would stick with him is I feel we have a level of stabillity with him , fire him and bring in some else I feel we could end up in an ipswich/McCarthy situation very quickly.

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Was a comment of how things are in general.

There was someone sat a few rows behind me at the Man Utd game who was shouting abuse at him when we were drawing 0-0!

Similar at the Leeds home game last season, we were very poor that day but had been doing pretty decent in the league, yet plenty of people near where I was expressed feelings of wanting him gone.

Yeah, there are extremes in either view.

I think this forum and the fans at AG have been pretty good this season in general. 

[JamesBCFC]

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yeah, there are extremes in either view.

I think this forum and the fans at AG have been pretty good this season in general. 

Very much disagree about the forum, though at the stadium it is generally less extreme than on here.

[Nbafc]

46 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I’m often labelled on here by a few as a Johnson lover, which is nonsense as I’ve called for him to go in the past.

I’m a Bristol City lover, regardless of the current incumbent. 

Johnson has done some good here and he has done some bad. He’s had us challenging for the top spot and have catastrophic lows...in the same season(!)

What’s undeniable is that if he left us today we’d be in a better place than when he came in. That’s a fact that even the most vehement anti-Johnson posters will be unable to deny. 

For me, the most frustrating thing is that he just doesn’t seem to learn from his mistakes. 

I think he is an average manager and if we are happy to be an average club then what’s the point in him being replaced? 

A lot was made of the seeming lack of ambition shown in January and for me, if that is representative of our happiness to be an average championship club then Johnson is doing what he’s here to do. 

If, however the ambition is genuinely for us to be contenders for a chance at promotion then it’s hard to argue that he’s the man for the job on the evidence we’ve had. 

So for me, Johnson in or out is a moot point without knowing the ambition from the top, and only a handful of people genuinely know what that ambition is. 

I don't normally post so not an "anti-Johnson" poster, although was never a fan of his appointment.

Its a really good post B86, but the highlighted paragraph I think is far from true, let alone undeniable. If he left us today the new incumbent would inherit a decent sized squad which (in my view) is unbalanced, lacks characters (Chippenham Red made an excellent thread on this yesterday) with few large assets. A squad where players have horrendous losses of form on a regular basis, disappear from the team for no discernable reason or have extended runs in the side without performances to justify it. A stable, mid-table, championship side? The last two are true as of today but stable is (again, in my view) the last thing we are at the moment.

The statement "Cotterill was taking us down" could easily be applied to Johnson, admittedly he has 6 or 7 more points at this stage though. 

He has had more backing than any other City manager I recall (financially and during an extended period of bad results and performances). His father and Cotterill took over with us in or near the league 1 drop zone and left us in a higher division. Although it was a painful tenure, it could be argued O'Driscoll left us in a position to go forward having done a lot of dirty work behind the scenes.

At this point the club are in a good position to kick on again, with a good HC/manager appointment. A better position than when he took over? Not in my view. Marginally if I'm being generous. And given the time and resources he's had that's not progress, it's been nearly 3 years of 1 step forward, 2 back. In context, the average tenure of a championship manager in the last 3 or 4 seasons is between slightly under to slightly over 12 months.

Too much too soon for Lee I believe. And the powers that be must take that responsibility for that as it was an appointment where sentiment and wishful thinking were at the forefront from where I was standing. A gamble if you will. Fair enough, it was their call. But given the absurd amounts of money Mr Lansdown has invested over the years, a puzzling one. Whatever he decides at least he's given this roll of the dice a fair crack.

The great run up to Christmas last year, the defeat of United & the performance at the Etihad will always be on Lee's CV,  also the development of Reid which was a thing beauty. Given that, it seems even more preposterous we end up where we are at the moment.

Apologies for the length, hope I'm wrong but we seem so lost, and from a position where we had everything going for us, that something has to give for the sake of all involved.

 

 

[lenred]

2 hours ago, RedDave said:

Preston didnt let us play, won every header, every second ball and were dangerous on the break. 

They are toward the bottom of a very poor league for a reason. They were awful but we let them play and made them look good due to the complete ineptitude of the team yet again. We are sinking rapidly towards the bottom at the moment and the team aren’t playing for him it seems. If it stays like this we’ll be in a relegation imminently. 

[Red Army 75]

10 hours ago, bearded_red said:

Get this man as far away from my club as possible.

Unbelievable. Matty get ready you’re going on . Not because I believe you can change the game. It’s because they have a song about you I like. 

Wow

[lenred]

6 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Very much disagree about the forum, though at the stadium it is generally less extreme than on here.

There were some pretty ‘extreme view’ being expressed yesterday where I was I can assure you. From the vast majority as well. 

[And Its Smith]

1 minute ago, lenred said:

They are toward the bottom of a very poor league for a reason. They were awful but we let them play and made them look good due to the complete ineptitude of the team yet again. We are sinking rapidly towards the bottom at the moment and the team aren’t playing for him it seems. If it stays like this we’ll be in a relegation imminently. 

Nonsense. They are toward bottom as they have had key injuries. Stop watching the table and watch the game.  They are unbeaten in seven and played very well

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Nonsense. They are toward bottom as they have had key injuries. Stop watching the table and watch the game.  They are unbeaten in seven and played very well

I wasn't overly impressed with Preston, but yeah I think they're better than League position suggests.

That said we were shocking- thought the support from S82 was not bad considering what was on display.

[lenred]

2 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Nonsense. They are toward bottom as they have had key injuries. Stop watching the table and watch the game.  They are unbeaten in seven and played very well

I did watch the game.  We were beyond pathetic. 

[Robbored]

18 minutes ago, glen humphries said:

but wot was served up yesterday was not good enough and lj must except that , time for him to admit defeat and go .

He does accept that yesterday was poor - said as much post which you obviously missed.

No doubt the performance was crap but it was just one game in a long 46 game season.......It’s almost impossible for any team to perform well in every game, there are simply too many variables in any match, just as it’s unlikely to play like yesterday in the next game.

Time to put it behind us and move on.....

I posted on another thread - no point calling for LJs head, he’s not going anywhere.

[JamesBCFC]

2 minutes ago, lenred said:

There were some pretty ‘extreme view’ being expressed yesterday where I was I can assure you. From the vast majority as well. 

Not what I was meaning.

This forum is extremely reactionary, and generally over the top in how reactionary it is (both on positives and negatives). 

[glen humphries]

3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

He does accept that yesterday was poor - said as much post which you obviously missed.

No doubt the performance was crap but it was just one game in a long 46 game season.......It’s almost impossible for any team to perform well in every game, there are simply too many variables in any match, just as it’s unlikely to play like yesterday in the next game.

Time to put it behind us and move on.....

I posted on another thread - no point calling for LJs head, he’s not going anywhere.

So you’re saying we all have to except watching total shit

[And Its Smith]

5 minutes ago, lenred said:

I did watch the game.  We were beyond pathetic. 

Doesn’t mean Preston weren’t good

[AppyDAZE]

4 minutes ago, Robbored said:

He does accept that yesterday was poor - said as much post which you obviously missed.

No doubt the performance was crap but it was just one game in a long 46 game season.......It’s almost impossible for any team to perform well in every game, there are simply too many variables in any match, just as it’s unlikely to play like yesterday in the next game.

Time to put it behind us and move on.....

I posted on another thread - no point calling for LJs head, he’s not going anywhere.

I agree, but not in the way you meant it

[lenred]

7 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Not what I was meaning.

This forum is extremely reactionary, and generally over the top in how reactionary it is (both on positives and negatives). 

From what I’ve read it’s been pretty level considering the abject performance and the reaction and vitriolic atmosphere at the ground yesterday. 

[Robbored]

13 minutes ago, glen humphries said:

So you’re saying we all have to except watching total shit

It was one game Glen..........

[BRISTOL86]

23 minutes ago, Nbafc said:

I don't normally post so not an "anti-Johnson" poster, although was never a fan of his appointment.

Its a really good post B86, but the highlighted paragraph I think is far from true, let alone undeniable. If he left us today the new incumbent would inherit a decent sized squad which (in my view) is unbalanced, lacks characters (Chippenham Red made an excellent thread on this yesterday) with few large assets. A squad where players have horrendous losses of form on a regular basis, disappear from the team for no discernable reason or have extended runs in the side without performances to justify it. A stable, mid-table, championship side? The last two are true as of today but stable is (again, in my view) the last thing we are at the moment.

The statement "Cotterill was taking us down" could easily be applied to Johnson, admittedly he has 6 or 7 more points at this stage though. 

He has had more backing than any other City manager I recall (financially and during an extended period of bad results and performances). His father and Cotterill took over with us in or near the league 1 drop zone and left us in a higher division. Although it was a painful tenure, it could be argued O'Driscoll left us in a position to go forward having done a lot of dirty work behind the scenes.

At this point the club are in a good position to kick on again, with a good HC/manager appointment. A better position than when he took over? Not in my view. Marginally if I'm being generous. And given the time and resources he's had that's not progress, it's been nearly 3 years of 1 step forward, 2 back. In context, the average tenure of a championship manager in the last 3 or 4 seasons is between slightly under to slightly over 12 months.

Too much too soon for Lee I believe. And the powers that be must take that responsibility for that as it was an appointment where sentiment and wishful thinking were at the forefront from where I was standing. A gamble if you will. Fair enough, it was their call. But given the absurd amounts of money Mr Lansdown has invested over the years, a puzzling one. Whatever he decides at least he's given this roll of the dice a fair crack.

The great run up to Christmas last year, the defeat of United & the performance at the Etihad will always be on Lee's CV,  also the development of Reid which was a thing beauty. Given that, it seems even more preposterous we end up where we are at the moment.

Apologies for the length, hope I'm wrong but we seem so lost, and from a position where we had everything going for us, that something has to give for the sake of all involved.

 

 

That’s fair enough. But since Johnson’s appointment we’ve improved our league position every season which is where I was coming from in terms of leaving us in a better place.

I also believe the reputation of the club has improved under Johnson thanks largely to the cup run. So in my view we are further forward as a club than we were when SC left. 

Whether we would be further forward had SC stayed is debatable and unknowable. 

[Ivorguy]

The only case that can be made surely is that given any successor will be appointed by SL we might land up, however bizarre that seems, with someone even worse given SL's abysmal track record, and the distinctly amateur way we approach managerial appointments

Hope things improve, at least in terms of effort, by the Millwall game as I and family have booked hotel for our long journey to see City play at Ashton Gate.  At least there will be plenty of seats to choose from I guess

[glen humphries]

3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

It was one game Glen..........

No it hasn’t been 1 game , Rotherham , Wigan, Hull was poor , on the whole it’s poor , that yesterday wasn’t good enough