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Can anyone make a case for sticking with LJ


hoxton casual

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22 hours ago, hoxton casual said:

Everyone seems to be in agreement his tome has come, but maybe his supporters are not posting. I would be interested to hear any views on why we should persist. I cannot think of any myself but maybe I am missing something?

NO there are no reasons to keep him and you are not missing a thing!

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18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Suspect he is a very good coach on the training ground too.  We’ve seen snippets of video that seem to show this.

But that is a very different skill to being the “Manager”.  And before everyone says that he’s a Head Coach not a Manager, maybe that’s part of the problem.

Even Deano and Macca are Assistant Head Coaches, not just Coaches, not even Head Coach Assistants.

In some respects, we’ve not appointed the person to the role of selecting the team, choosing the tactics, making the subs, dealing with player issues etc.  That role is the Manager.  In some ways it abdicates some responsibility.  Ferguson used to leave the training to Kidd.

I think it is these tasks that he struggles with.  How do you tell the media that your Callum O’Dowda’s biggest believer and that you want him to sign a new contract and then not start him, or even bring him off the bench?  How does that affect Callum and the other players?  He has a lot to learn in dealing with the media.  I love listening to him, because he gives me lots of info, but he’s too open, too honest.  That impacts players.

He needs some help, but bringing in an experienced man as a DoF (like a Lenny Lawrence type) would I'm sure be seen as undermining him.  I think it would be a show of strength, an admission that for all his bright ideas who is there to tell him that some of them are wrong.  Can’t believe Deano or Macca do.  He has mentors in Dalglish, Marwood etc, but they aren’t there with him daily.  

I actually felt for him hearing his post-match interview (this morning).  He spoke differently, it was LJ on the spot, under pressure, and you heard it in his voice.  He spoke from his heart.  Fair play to him.  That doesn’t give him a free pass, it was however his Julia Roberts / Notting Hill moment.  What happens next I don’t know.

I certainly didn’t take any offence to him saying they might be better off next game being away at Leeds.  I tend to agree with him.  Sink or swim though.

 

 

Agree Dave re. your comments about his after match interview - definitely a man under pressure.

Thing is.....pressure will only grow as think we could be in for a hiding ala 5-0 at Preston at Leeds next time out!

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I don't really have a logical reason to stick with LJ other than changing manager is not a guarantee of improvement and the names being banded around are just the old boys managers club which I hate. 

If we do change manager I hope we are brave enough to go for a young fresh hungry manager.

To be honest I'm not fussed wether we stick with LJ or not now and I'm probably a happy clapper. In fact, like when he was a player for us, its maybe better to move on to stop this constant Johnson in/out debate every time we win a couple or lose a couple. 

Whatever happens - Up The City

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26 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Mick McCarthy would bite our hands off to have even a small portion of the transfer fee budget given to LJ - proper track record too....

I don’t get the people on here who say ‘MM - boring football, blah, blah’.  He played the style to the resources, the players.  His Millwall side was tough with the likes of Keith Stephens, Alan McLeary, Kenny Cunningham, Alex Rae (who could play too) in midfield and Jon Goodman up front who went to Wimbledon before cruelly retiring from injury.  But they were exciting to watch too.  The likes of Ben Thatcher, Mark Kennedy came through too.

i would rather have MM than Colin.

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I agree with all the comments regarding LJ being a great coach.  He is a million miles away from being a great manager but a shame when he goes we will lose him from the set up as he definitely has a lot to offer, just not in his current role.  Similar to Tinnion,  didn’t work as a manager but a lot to offer and it took years to get him back on board.

i don’t know if SL record of picking managers is worse than any owner but it certainly feels that way.  Surely it’s our turn to get one that clicks.  

It’s alright spending money on a training ground, hotel and Mark Ashton but a new head coach, whenever he comes in is the most important job at the club.

if I was SL I’d cut my losses with LJ and throw money at it and go for experience, a name and convince them to come.  It didn’t work with Coppell, maybe SL was a bit burnt by that one and will be reluctant to go that way again.

I would be going all out for Moyes.  There won’t be a greater chance to go out and get a big name, experienced manager with a genuine affection for our club.

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t get the people on here who say ‘MM - boring football, blah, blah’.  He played the style to the resources, the players.  His Millwall side was tough with the likes of Keith Stephens, Alan McLeary, Kenny Cunningham, Alex Rae (who could play too) in midfield and Jon Goodman up front who went to Wimbledon before cruelly retiring from injury.  But they were exciting to watch too.  The likes of Ben Thatcher, Mark Kennedy came through too.

i would rather have MM than Colin.

I’d take either of them Dave to be honest....they are successful, proven guys.....surely an employer does research on prospective leaders and looks for CVs like theirs when making appointments? Although we still get lazy, boring, ill-informed utterances from people on here like @cidercity1987 who just dismiss very successful football managers as ‘dinosaurs’ without bothering to find out what their experience involves and what they have actually achieved. Then they run and hide when asked reasonable questions to back up their ‘claims’ .....oh well....

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@General Zod nice comparison with Tinnion, although LJ never held in the same regard as a player as BT.  I never saw LJ play live other than the game v Watford where he got crocked.  Saw him on telly, but don’t have the view if many that he’s remodelled City in a style matching his own game.

That surprises me Dave - you only saw LJ play once for us between 2006 and 2012? 

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1 minute ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

That surprises me Dave - you only saw LJ play once for us between 2006 and 2012? 

Yep, when I stopped playing through injury, I gave live football a miss, still had a keen interest in watching on tv, but Joe started to show an interest in 2013.  Took him to Emirates Cup, to see how he coped with live games, and he loved it.  Started with City v Peterborough (0-3) under SOD.  So I missed that whole era.  Part-timer eh?

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6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@General Zod nice comparison with Tinnion, although LJ never held in the same regard as a player as BT.  I never saw LJ play live other than the game v Watford where he got crocked.  Saw him on telly, but don’t have the view if many that he’s remodelled City in a style matching his own game.

I guess Tinnion realised the job was too much and resigned.  That gets a fair amount of respect in my book.  Not many managers walk away, preferring to wait for the sack and a pay off.

I can’t ever see LJ doing the same.  

 

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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, when I stopped playing through injury, I gave live football a miss, still had a keen interest in watching on tv, but Joe started to show an interest in 2013.  Took him to Emirates Cup, to see how he coped with live games, and he loved it.  Started with City v Peterborough (0-3) under SOD.  So I missed that whole era.  Part-timer eh?

Nah, you ain’t a part-timer mate....I’m seriously thinking of giving ‘live’ football a miss at the moment....many moons back I only did away games for a couple of seasons when I got fed up of the moaning people around me at Ashton Gate - I’ll never forget the clown who bellowed “What have you ever done for the shirt Tinnion?” from the row in front of me.....that was the final straw for a couple of years....I cut off my nose to spite my face and just followed the chaps away....

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32 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t get the people on here who say ‘MM - boring football, blah, blah’.  He played the style to the resources, the players.  His Millwall side was tough with the likes of Keith Stephens, Alan McLeary, Kenny Cunningham, Alex Rae (who could play too) in midfield and Jon Goodman up front who went to Wimbledon before cruelly retiring from injury.  But they were exciting to watch too.  The likes of Ben Thatcher, Mark Kennedy came through too.

i would rather have MM than Colin.

Didn`t he give Tim Cahill his break too or was that after he`d gone?

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50 minutes ago, General Zod said:

I agree with all the comments regarding LJ being a great coach.  He is a million miles away from being a great manager but a shame when he goes we will lose him from the set up as he definitely has a lot to offer, just not in his current role.  Similar to Tinnion,  didn’t work as a manager but a lot to offer and it took years to get him back on board.

i don’t know if SL record of picking managers is worse than any owner but it certainly feels that way.  Surely it’s our turn to get one that clicks.  

It’s alright spending money on a training ground, hotel and Mark Ashton but a new head coach, whenever he comes in is the most important job at the club.

if I was SL I’d cut my losses with LJ and throw money at it and go for experience, a name and convince them to come.  It didn’t work with Coppell, maybe SL was a bit burnt by that one and will be reluctant to go that way again.

I would be going all out for Moyes.  There won’t be a greater chance to go out and get a big name, experienced manager with a genuine affection for our club.

I really can’t see SL doing that I really don’t, he’d want someone who would fit in with the club’s ‘philosophy’ and no doubt a yes man. He won’t appoint someone who’s outspoken and not afraid to say it how it is, if the rumours about Cott’s are true then look what happened to him, so say having a pop after not getting what he wanted.

 

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34 minutes ago, BCFC11 said:

I really can’t see SL doing that I really don’t, he’d want someone who would fit in with the club’s ‘philosophy’ and no doubt a yes man. He won’t appoint someone who’s outspoken and not afraid to say it how it is, if the rumours about Cott’s are true then look what happened to him, so say having a pop after not getting what he wanted.

 

I’m not sure he wants a yes man just someone who buys into the ‘philosophy’ 

but you’re probably right and Moyes wouldn’t even be considered but more importantly we still have a manager 

I can dream though!

 

 

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Not a lot of support for him and surprisingly our owner. He more than anyone has the best interests of the club at heart, and yes he has made some bad decisions in the past, but it seems some people believe he does it on purpose. Finding a good manager is difficult, but let's hope the next one has what it takes to take us forward. I dont think it will be long and the international break maybe good timing. Jamie M as Caretaker?

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9 hours ago, Bazooka Joe said:

That's where someone's gonna be when they kick him up the backside.

Well if you think we should top of the league thats all well and good but thats not realistic in my view.

But needy "supporters" like you are the norm nowadays im afraid.

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On 11/11/2018 at 01:43, bearded_red said:

Get this man as far away from my club as possible.

A3F0D111-5555-4802-ABEF-0F37AB17C79E.jpeg

I looked at this and instantly laughed as I thought it was a fake. 

Then I realised it was true and laughed even more. 

I’ve never read such incompetence from a City manager. You really have to laugh. What must Matty Taylor be feeling? That I’m not very good but the gaffer put me on because they have a song for me?

He’s certainly not helped himself with this.

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14 hours ago, swanker said:

Sheffield Wednesday have taken 1 point in five games since they beat us easily at Ashton Gate!

And before they had drawn with WBA, Leeds and beat Villa away- it's appears like that sort of League this season.

Some of the results are ludicrous, have been ludicrous.

Example:

  • Derby 1-4 Leeds
  • WBA 1-4 Derby
  • Therefore...WBA 4-1 Leeds

I agree it was a bad result especially as we hammered a better Sheff Wed in 2016 and we drew with, surprisingly broke our losing streak v them in 2017- again a Sheff Wed near the top 6, so this years loss was a wasted opportunity- again though unconvinced we deserved to lose on the day in October.

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On 11/11/2018 at 07:29, ChippenhamRed said:

@BCFC Grim it’s a genuine quote being reported by the Bristol Post here:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-city-highlights-preston-johnson-2205984

Appalling comments. If you’re picking your substations based on who has the best song, without doubt it’s time to go.

Johnson out.

I just read this quote in this thread and actually had to see if it was real as it’s that unbelievable. It can only have been said in jest and certainly not the time and the place for that. 

Oddly enough I turned to the person I was with as the sub happened and said it at least gave us something to sing about

I cannot believe Matty T was just added as he had a song, subbed on to get the crowd singing. Shocking mistake by  LJ to admit that, even if it was what he was thinking. I have alwys given him my complete support, but when a Manager admits this ( even in jest) he has lost the plot and I don’t know what he will say and do next.

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15 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Mick McCarthy would bite our hands off to have even a small portion of the transfer fee budget given to LJ - proper track record too....

 

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t get the people on here who say ‘MM - boring football, blah, blah’.  He played the style to the resources, the players.  His Millwall side was tough with the likes of Keith Stephens, Alan McLeary, Kenny Cunningham, Alex Rae (who could play too) in midfield and Jon Goodman up front who went to Wimbledon before cruelly retiring from injury.  But they were exciting to watch too.  The likes of Ben Thatcher, Mark Kennedy came through too.

i would rather have MM than Colin.

McCarthy is a believer in youth to be fair too. Blooded quite a few youngsters at Ipswich, not afraid to throw them into the mix.

That said, I'd still be very surprised if SL was remotely interested in him.

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2 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

 

McCarthy is a believer in youth to be fair too. Blooded quite a few youngsters at Ipswich, not afraid to throw them into the mix.

That said, I'd still be very surprised if SL was remotely interested in him.

MM is the sort of manager who would call a spade a spade as my Dad would say if he was still alive. I don’t think he would be open to discussion in the same way LJ probably is, let’s put it like that.

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On 11/11/2018 at 11:17, Red Exile said:

The ambition of the club is the bit that perhaps bothers me most. What's the point of being in such a competitive league if we don't want to compete? That's where the Lansdown project leaves me bemused. The ground improvements were delivered by people with experience of doing the job they were hired to do...the playing side of the club appears to be in the hands of men learning on the job, which given the resources invested in them seems extraordinary.

 

On 11/11/2018 at 11:19, ScottishRed said:

I think it is becoming clear what the true ambition actually is  - simply, stay in this league, nothing more.

 

23 hours ago, Davefevs said:

It most definitely isn’t!  There is no way SL is pumping £millions in just for survival.

I think he will be very “disappointed” with current progress.  He will have backed a plan, probably stemming from January, and his management team from MA down are not meeting the objectives set.  He will not allow himself to be the scapegoat...someone else will.  It might not be LJ, could be MA, could be Holden or Macca.

If the ambition was merely survival in this division, below the glitzy, glam, celebrated PremierLeague, then why bother going to the expense of having the Upper Lansdown, with its 4000 odd extra seats? The lower bowl bit with 22k would've been ample for second tier football and any level rugby.

The ambition is absolutely there.

The worry is, not a lack of ambition, but the gap between the ambition and the decision-making required to realise the ambition. And the thinking required.

For example, in May, SL - who would've known our best players were to be sold - said that he was looking for improvement on last season's 11th, and knocking on the door of the play offs. A "big ask" for your Gary Rowetts, your Steve Maclarens, and your Frank bloody Lampards, let alone poor Lee Johnson. 

As others have said, who else is pulling this one out of the hat? 

 

 

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I'm not going to make a case for keeping LJ in the long-term but I do think there needs to be a distinction made between "we can get a better manager" and "any manager would be better". It's cynical as hell but what I'd like to see the club do is see if they think someone is available who could do a better job (I'd be happy with MM personally btw as long as the desire is still there), if so make the change and, if not, hold off until the right person becomes available. I think we can do better but I'd rather not see an immediate panic decision. 

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