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If LJ was to leave (Merged many times)


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Would Mick McCarthy be a good choice to take City forward  

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On 10/11/2018 at 18:24, kivsy said:

We took ages to get in the championship and employ a rookie 

 

I’d rather someone with experience of the league we are in.   

I do know this is unlikely as landsdown wants a puppet 

Lots of teams employ rookies, look at Derby with Lampard, Darren Moore at WBA both in the top 6

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10 minutes ago, glen humphries said:

Lampards seen how top managers work for over a decade, lj on the other hand has followed his dad around ?

Not sure if you’re being facetious or not, but I do think it’s a very valid point.

I do think one of his weaknesses is that he has not got the playing pedigree to fall back back on.  I know the likes of Mourinho and Wenger didn’t either.  For all LJ’s reading and modern thinking, is his fall-back and fundamentals driven / influenced by his Dad?  His Dad was very much what you see is what you get.  LJ is a bit more complex than that, wanting to come across as the educated young coach (dispelling he’s anything like his Dad), but in fact behind that facade (and in the confines of the dressing room / training ground) I think he’s very different.. and in fact very much like Gary.

That lack of playing pedigree I think brings an insecurity.  He only (only - context of pro game) played regularly at Championship level at City, under his dad, appearances reducing after Gary left. At City, some fans appreciated the give and go, short passing style, but I don’t think anyone ever saw him as the main main, a star of the team, like other players in that era.  That insecurity brings over-compensation in trying to be that bit smarter, but it means apart from under his dad, what managers has he worked under as a player?  Nobody of any real significance.  Please correct me here.  He then went pretty much into coaching following release by Kilmarnock, so not even been Assistant to anyone of note either.  In fairness he’s had a tough entry to management but he’s sought that route.

Wenger - had Jean-Marc Gillou (a French International in 78 WC) as his manager as he learned the ropes.  Went to Nancy under Aldo Platini (yes, the father of Michel).  The rest is history.

Mourinho - we all know he started as interpreter for Robson at Barcelona, but earned his assistant manager stripes under Van Gaal.  The rest is history.

Add in new managers like Gerrard and Lampard.  They command respect (initially) for their playing careers and will have learned from several greats.  That won’t make them great managers, but it’s a better foundation than LJ.  They can bypass some of the ‘theory”, because they were both good enough and intelligent footballers at the top level.

Who has LJ learned from?  Who has he served an apprenticeship under?  Nobody of any note.  You can throw in mentors like Dalglish, Marwood, frienships with Pep and Jose, but they aren’t there with him on a day to day basis.  He’s got Mark Effin Ashton spouting shit above him.

He’s got no-one around him to pose questions to, get advice on what they did in a similar scenario....Holden and Macca can’t provide that, they’ve never been in LJ’s situation.  They are also no threat to his head-coach position, whether that has any relevance I don’t know.

Ok, so how had an Eddie Howe struck gold? Serving a proper apprenticeship in the lower leagues, he’s been able to grow with Bournemouth.

What about Sean Dyche?  Didn’t have a stellar playing career, certainly not at City (!!), but he did his years at Watford, becoming Malky Mackay’s assistant.  Mackay was a progressive coach, who’d been at Celtic at Norwich, learning from Tommy Burns, Wim Jansen, Bryan Hamilton.

Lee has jumped into the deep end, and at Oldham he survived, built a bit of a reputation, got a call from Barnsley, but in honesty had a mixed bag there.  I really don’t believe he would’ve got anywhere near a job here had it not been for his affinity here.  It was a massive gamble from SL.  I don’t believe SL put the right structure around him.  LJ may not have wanted it, and I suspect he would have interviewed fantastically to a non-football man like SL, and convinced him easily that he was the right choice.

I think both SL and LJ are at a bit of a crossroads (no Benny jokes please), and the spell to Xmas may be defining.  I would be more than happy to say I was wrong, LJ turns us around and leads us forward.

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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Not sure if you’re being facetious or not, but I do think it’s a very valid point.

I do think one of his weaknesses is that he has not got the playing pedigree to fall back back on.  I know the likes of Mourinho and Wenger didn’t either.  For all LJ’s reading and modern thinking, is his fall-back and fundamentals driven / influenced by his Dad?  His Dad was very much what you see is what you get.  LJ is a bit more complex than that, wanting to come across as the educated young coach (dispelling he’s anything like his Dad), but in fact behind that facade (and in the confines of the dressing room / training ground) I think he’s very different.. and in fact very much like Gary.

That lack of playing pedigree I think brings an insecurity.  He only (only - context of pro game) played regularly at Championship level at City, under his dad, appearances reducing after Gary left. At City, some fans appreciated the give and go, short passing style, but I don’t think anyone ever saw him as the main main, a star of the team, like other players in that era.  That insecurity brings over-compensation in trying to be that bit smarter, but it means apart from under his dad, what managers has he worked under as a player?  Nobody of any real significance.  Please correct me here.  He then went pretty much into coaching following release by Kilmarnock, so not even been Assistant to anyone of note either.  In fairness he’s had a tough entry to management but he’s sought that route.

Wenger - had Jean-Marc Gillou (a French International in 78 WC) as his manager as he learned the ropes.  Went to Nancy under Aldo Platini (yes, the father of Michel).  The rest is history.

Mourinho - we all know he started as interpreter for Robson at Barcelona, but earned his assistant manager stripes under Van Gaal.  The rest is history.

Add in new managers like Gerrard and Lampard.  They command respect (initially) for their playing careers and will have learned from several greats.  That won’t make them great managers, but it’s a better foundation than LJ.  They can bypass some of the ‘theory”, because they were both good enough and intelligent footballers at the top level.

Who has LJ learned from?  Who has he served an apprenticeship under?  Nobody of any note.  You can throw in mentors like Dalglish, Marwood, frienships with Pep and Jose, but they aren’t there with him on a day to day basis.  He’s got Mark Effin Ashton spouting shit above him.

He’s got no-one around him to pose questions to, get advice on what they did in a similar scenario....Holden and Macca can’t provide that, they’ve never been in LJ’s situation.  They are also no threat to his head-coach position, whether that has any relevance I don’t know.

Ok, so how had an Eddie Howe struck gold? Serving a proper apprenticeship in the lower leagues, he’s been able to grow with Bournemouth.

What about Sean Dyche?  Didn’t have a stellar playing career, certainly not at City (!!), but he did his years at Watford, becoming Malky Mackay’s assistant.  Mackay was a progressive coach, who’d been at Celtic at Norwich, learning from Tommy Burns, Wim Jansen, Bryan Hamilton.

Lee has jumped into the deep end, and at Oldham he survived, built a bit of a reputation, got a call from Barnsley, but in honesty had a mixed bag there.  I really don’t believe he would’ve got anywhere near a job here had it not been for his affinity here.  It was a massive gamble from SL.  I don’t believe SL put the right structure around him.  LJ may not have wanted it, and I suspect he would have interviewed fantastically to a non-football man like SL, and convinced him easily that he was the right choice.

I think both SL and LJ are at a bit of a crossroads (no Benny jokes please), and the spell to Xmas may be defining.  I would be more than happy to say I was wrong, LJ turns us around and leads us forward.

I wasn’t being facetious Dave , it’s fairly obvious to me lj has had no one of any note to learn off and it’s showing, I think behind all the bravado lj is actually quite insecure, he knows he wasn’t that well liked here as a player, I agree with you he definitely try’s to hard too come across as a intelligent new age coach, but unfortunately I just don’t think he’s got it in him to succeed here or maybe anywhere.

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Slip Big Sam a wad and three years supply of chewing gum and he will stop the slide. I would get Moyes in. He was good at Everton and had no chance at the Theatre of Nightmares but I doubt Mr Lansdown would pod out the money. I doubt we have real ambition to get promotion by the managers we always shortlist or get !!

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16 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Yes, what did he ever go on to achieve?

Perhaps you would like to consider the fact that Ipswich, on one of the lowest budgets in the league (and lower than ours), were in the play offs this time last season. Now they are rock bottom. 

And no comparison in styles or ethos

Pulis has his system - painful to watch but sucessful and putting it simply even his sides are better to watch than the complete dross served up to us in 2018 by the cosy club

McCarthy will play dependent on what players and budget he has to work with 

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33 minutes ago, RedDave said:

People who say yes need to remember Pulis days

In terms of playing style I’m far from convinced McCarthy belongs in the same bracket as Pulis.

How many more managers with impressive CVs and proven credentials are we going to turn our noses up at while continuing to achieve very little?

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4 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

They’d be snapped up pretty quickly by fans who are happy to witness success....

They would be welcome to them - I’m close to jacking it all in anyway due to all the messing about with kick off times and days so this would just be the deciding factor 

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1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Steve Lansdown.................Nigel Pearson....

That would be interesting !!

SL had his fingers seriously burnt by Coppell....the last big name we recruited....the ones appointed post the Coppell debacle is a relatively sorry list....Millen, McInnes, O’Driscoll, Cotts, LJ....only Cotts achieved anything....it seems that Mr Lansdown has tarnished every potential ‘big’ name with the Coppell ‘brush’....SL obviously has our best interests at heart...but Coppell seems to have made him shy away from proven successful managers, for some reason....

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2 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

SL had his fingers seriously burnt by Coppell....the last big name we recruited....the ones appointed post the Coppell debacle is a relatively sorry list....Millen, McInnes, O’Driscoll, Cotts, LJ....only Cotts achieved anything....it seems that Mr Lansdown has tarnished every potential ‘big’ name with the Coppell ‘brush’....SL obviously has our best interests at heart...but Coppell seems to have made him shy away from proven successful managers, for some reason....

Depressing, if true

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23 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Yes, what did he ever go on to achieve?

Perhaps you would like to consider the fact that Ipswich, on one of the lowest budgets in the league (and lower than ours), were in the play offs this time last season. Now they are rock bottom. 

 

5 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

In terms of playing style I’m far from convinced McCarthy belongs in the same bracket as Pulis.

How many more managers with impressive CVs and proven credentials are we going to turn our noses up at while continuing to achieve very little?

I just want to achieve attractive attacking football. That’s all

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30 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

SL had his fingers seriously burnt by Coppell....the last big name we recruited....the ones appointed post the Coppell debacle is a relatively sorry list....Millen, McInnes, O’Driscoll, Cotts, LJ....only Cotts achieved anything....it seems that Mr Lansdown has tarnished every potential ‘big’ name with the Coppell ‘brush’....SL obviously has our best interests at heart...but Coppell seems to have made him shy away from proven successful managers, for some reason....

Spot on

im not sure I get the drama of the fear of managers who won’t tow the party line

With his wealth and position , as SL I’d be saying at interview, these are the terms, the budget , are you prepared to work to them

Once agreed , when said manager asks to go outside those terms , the answer is simple , the reminder simple, , demonstrate you’ve kept your promise and expect others to do so, pointing out that said manager has an option if he feels strongly enough

Not convinced SL is a leader , a general , a gentleman for sure

Football is brutal

Even the wonderful , friendly , charitable, polite Leicester Owner, tragically departed didn’t hang around replacing Premier League winner Ranieri

 

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